#1 ken decker. what is structural poverty?

#2 essential items needed to live in society today.

air water food shelter

reading writing arithmetic

faith patience prudence courage charity truth liberty freedom

common sense

five acres and independence (imho)

some things you don't need in to live with in todays society.

pride envy sloth gluttony anger (rightous or not)(imho)

-- ironfist (ironfist@undermythumb.net), May 01, 2000

Answers

Please, allow me to throw a few other essentials into the mix:

*Good reliable transportation, health care, and a steady income.

Public transportation would qualify in large urban areas and the income could be derived from a job, inheritance, retirement, etc.

Some things you dont need to live with in todays society:

*An outstanding warrant, a communicable disease, and unemployed relatives.

And Ironfist, why did you declare that one needs no pride to live in todays society? The current lack in having pride in self and country is responsible for most of our present ills, IMHO.

-- Sifting (through@the.rubble), May 01, 2000.

Sifting -

I think ironfist is using the term "pride" in its primary and negative sense: "inordinate self-esteem or conceit". It's that whole arrogant, center-of-the-universe, I'm-all-right-Jack worldview, and it is a strong corrosive.

Pride is not a virtue and never has been; it's so common as to be almost without value. Pride takes no effort or willpower whatsoever. It comes easily to almost everyone, and too often without much justification. People have a tendency to think that they're smarter and more virtuous than their behavior actually indicates. That's what Garrison Keillor gently mocks with his signoff from Lake Woebegone: "Where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average."

Humility, loyalty, and self-sacrifice (to name just three) are virtues. Pride (as defined above) is not.

-- DeeEmBee (macbeth1@pacbell.net), May 01, 2000.

And DeeEmBee, let us not forget what Conrad Dobler said about Montana:

The men are men, the sheep are sheep, and the women are glad of it.

I dont buy your slant on pridewe need more of it!

-- Ra (through@the.rubble), May 01, 2000.

Ra -

I dont buy your slant on pridewe need more of it!

Interesting. We need more of the sort of behaviors and attitudes which I described? Why?

Please note: I am not denigrating the sort of pride which is justifiably elated over an event or achievement. My criticism is reserved for the more common self-deluding and arrogant mindset which is the opposite of humility. This sort of pride does no one any good.

-- DeeEmBee (macbeth1@pacbell.net), May 01, 2000.

Things we need:

Personal responsibility, diligence.

Things we don't:

Rosie O'Donnell (Sic?)

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 01, 2000.

PRIDE

A reasonable or justifiable self-respect : delight or elation arising from some act, possession, or relationship

Something Im missing here? Why would pride not be a good thing unless you were of such character as to never have any.

-- Sifting (through@the.rubble), May 01, 2000.

You forgot beer.

-- (@ .), May 01, 2000.

Sifting, you gave only part of the definition of pride. This IMO is a word that is used in different ways by different people, and a word that should be understood in context.

Here's a more complete definition from Webster's online

I've highlighted in bold definitions which I view as the negative meanings of pride, and italicized the ones I view as positive (and left alone neutral meanings):

1 : the quality or state of being proud: as a : inordinate self-esteem : CONCEIT b : a reasonable or justifiable self-respect c : delight or elation arising from some act, possession, or relationship
2 : proud or disdainful behavior or treatment : DISDAIN
3 a : ostentatious display b : highest pitch : PRIME
4 : a source of pride : the best in a group or class
5 : a company of lions
6 : a showy or impressive group


-- (y@x.x), May 01, 2000.

Nuber 6 got cut off, it should read:

6 : a showy or impressive group (a pride of dancers)

-- (y@x.x), May 01, 2000.

"Pride goeth before a fall"

Some people interpret that as when you have pride (as compared to humility) you fall.

Others interpret that as when you're pride goes...you fall!

-- Debra (...@....), May 02, 2000.

This sounds like Grandpa "a."

There is a whole branch of economics devoted to poverty. One of the most difficult questions is how to define poverty... is it relative or absolute? Another challenge is to separate "temporary" poverty due to flucuations in the business cycle from chronic or "structural" poverty.

Our "poor" in America are generally far more affluent than the poor in developing countries. One might argue the only poverty in America is relative, not absolute... after all, about half the world lives on less than $2 a day.

In fact, a staggering number of people (outside the developed world) lack the water, food and shelter... not to mention elementary education. Why? It is fashionable to blame the developed world for the world's problems. The real problem lies within developing countries themselves. The production of adequate basic goods and services relies on a market-based economy and a stable government. Without political stability or market reforms, third world countries are destined to remain poor... real poverty, not the affectation of poverty assumed by U.S. welfare recipients.

Five acres is worthless if it's five acres in the Sahara. It's worthless if you cannot tend the land because of military coups or rapacious warlords. It's worthless if you cannot buy seed, or tools, or basic necessities.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), May 02, 2000.