Are You Being Served ?

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I was wondering if different areas of the country are getting poor service for their bucks. In the 60's and 70's --the customer was always right--in 2000 he is lucky if he can get an appointment. I was wondering if it was just me(I am a bit overbearing) or if it is a national problem. I would like good stories and bad ones also. Thanks

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), April 29, 2000

Answers

Joel..You, overbearing? NAH! Just kidding, and I think you are absolutely right about poor service. Had this conversation at a sale today, people for the most part have lost the pride in their workmanship that folks used to have. Hubby ordered a tool box for his pick up recently, and when it came, the cardboard box was the correct size, but inside was a small tool box. Some one had slapped the large box label over the small box label on EVERY ONE in the warehouse. Neighbor ordered black shoes, size 10-1/2. Got size 9. Sent those back and got WHITE shoes, size 10. Another person ordered a 2 piece swim suit, got only the bottom and the wrong color. SOME one has to be making all those careless mistakes, and it is as if they don't really care, and think you are a pain in the...for complaining that you didn't get what you paid for. I think it is a shame, but seems to be happening all over. Jan

-- Jan B (Janice12@aol.com), April 29, 2000.

Funny you should ask! I went to Staples (now called Stupids in my mind)today...special trip to town and everything. I needed some school supplies. While there, I decided to check out their book selection, since I have a new PC with Office Pro 2000, which has some tricks I haven't figured out yet. Next to me is a young woman employee who is scanning, reticketing, ??, something. Posted on the bins in front of the books is a small sign which says something to the effect of: "20% off Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price".

Now having worked in retail for millions of years, I know that a sign like that is just bound to bring the inevitable question of: "Is that 20% MORE off the prices posted on the bins, or have you already taken the price adjustment before posting the prices?" So, I asked it! (I could have compared the price on the book to the posted price, but nah, I was just lazy).

The young woman said, "Gee, that's a good question. I don't know." And with that proceeded to ignore me! I was astounded. So, I continued to browse the books, thinking that maybe she wanted to wrap up some process so she wouldn't lose her place, or whatever, but after another 5 minutes, nothing happened.

I picked up my stuff to purchase and walked up to the counter where I interrupted some young folk behind the register having a nice personal conversation, and despite the fact that I felt like I was ruining their day, lay my purchase items on the counter. I then posed the question to the cashier. He said, "I can't figure out what you mean." I repeated it two more times, using actual examples, and explained my previous experience in retail and the confusion that stuff like that can create. He just shrugged, said, it might be confusing and rang up my purchase.

I then asked "Do you think you might want to share my comments with someone else?", to which he said: "Yeah, I'll tell my manager." The manager then walked up, and since the cashier was completely unable to paraphrase what I had just said to him numerous times, I proceeded to recap the concern I had. The manager then said that it was interesting, and he would tell someone above him, but in essence, that it wouldn't change things. I mentioned something about impacting profit margins when you had to give customers additional discounts to satisfy them should they complain loudly in front of other customers about the truth in advertising about the signs, etc. He looked at me blankly.

This really is no big deal, as far as a problem for them goes. But the incredible disrespect shown to me as Jane Doe, potential customer was beyond understanding!

Now, mind you, nobody was on an operating table, and this wasn't a conversation to save anyone's life, but I have never, ever been so dismissed as insignificant in a store in my life! I am friendly, clean, personable, attractive as far as customers go, and was trying to be helpful, in a devilish (albeit transparent to them) way! God have mercy on us if we have trained these young, well dressed, healthy American youth to be this rude and ignorant of what drives successful businesses. We deserve to move our production/distribution/sales offshore if this is what our capabilities are.

Sorry to be so long. I really could go on for hours... I have millions of stories, and so does everyone else.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), April 29, 2000.


Boy did you ask that on the right day. I went to Pamida's today to get some camping equipment for our horse trailer and there were no prices on some sleeping bags, so I finally found someone to ask and he said just a minute and proceeded to help at the check outs (they NEVER have enough help). I left my cart stacked to overflowing at the checkout line and left the store. Went to another town that has a Wally world.

Sprint is another problem. I changed programs in December. We have 5 long distance accounts with them and it has taken me 2 hours a month to get it right and we still have 2 accounts that may not be right - have to wait until the next bill. They also disconnected one phone's service for non-payment even though it was their credits that hadn't gone through. I would change if I thought I could find a decent carrier.

I think bad service is par for the course these days. The consumer no longer has the pull they used.

-- beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), April 29, 2000.


Hea beckie, was that Pamida the one here in Petersburg Indiana. I don,t know why they put in more than one cash register in the store there is always just one open and it takes two people to ficure out how to use it. Speaking of SLOW It took a friend of mine 27 minutes to get a cup of coffie at 7:00 am at our local McDonalds

-- Grant Eversoll (thegrange@earthlink.net), April 29, 2000.

Joel--I'm on the other side I have owned my own businesses for over 30 yrs. & the public is so awful--I closed my business to the public!!!!!!!! I have been robbed, threated on a daily basis, harrassed, vandalized, almost raped 3 times. The public is not the same either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It really isn't safe any more. I had to carry a gun with me at all times!!! I have owned beauty salons, nutrition co. motels, antique shops & more. There wasn't one day in the last 15 years that I wasn't cussed, threatened, or some one didn't try to rob me!!!!!!! It got to where I wanted to be as RUDE & NASTY as they were to me--so I no longier work for the public!! My help would steal from me--never show up for work/ or on time. I believe every one should own their own business & make pay roll for at least a year & then may be they would be better costomers/ also! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), April 30, 2000.


Makes me think of a wonderful shopping trip with my Grandmother when I lived on Cape Cod. We went to a shop and there was this miserable young fellow at the cash register. He was being horrible to everyone. Finally it was Grammas turn to check out and this little old lady said to the lad, Son, Are you happy with your job. He was quiet for a second and said "well yes". She replied " I'm glad that is really important for a happy life". Truth is sadly most people aren't. How gratifying do you think it is to work for a major retailer which makes millions while you make minimum age. Maybe the puritan work ethic is dead or maybe people are wising up?? Me I'm just happy to be fighting the weeds in the garden right now! Kim

p.s. Whoever said a job done right doesn't need repeating, has never weeded a garden!!

-- kim (fleece@eritter.net), April 30, 2000.


good question !!! thanks for asking. i do have several "pet peeves" about service and the retail environment.

it rankles me to go into an establishment, and upon paying the clerk, i don't even get a "thank you" or anything, maybe just a "here ya go" and they sort of toss my change into my hand.........grrrrrrrrr

also, clerks who can only scan merchandise, no comprehension of the apparently now old-fashioned method of "ringing up the sale". and it seems there is ALWAYS something that scans wrong. and of course, its always scanned too high, in the stores favor. of course!! how silly of me !!!

and clerks, retail management, owners, etc, who feel they are doing me a favor by taking my money. geez what nerve and gall !!

and no one has any sales knowledge!!! i have gone into several appliance stores, including local stores and large national retailers, wanting to purchase a new freezer. i have yet to find a sales clerk (well lately anyway) that has any product knowledge. even when i know the answer, i will ask the sales clerk/salesman to see if they have a clue, and i get no answer or a bulls**t answer. doesn't seem to matter what sort of appliance. i even asked for the manager, he didn't know why i should buy this particular freezer, other than "its a good deal you would be crazy to not buy it" folks i am looking for facts, features and benefits. a bit of professionalism and salesmanship please !!!

its been ages since i've seen anybody knowing how to make change. if my bill is for example $17.62 and i hand the clerk $20.12, i get looks as if i am from mars.

a true story as an example. i was at the flea market, and a man was selling silver coins, just ordinary "junk silver". nothing collectible, nothing of numismatic value. price of "junk silver" is approximately 4 times face value. he priced me pre-1964 silver half- dollars at $10.00 apiece. i offered him $2.00 apiece , as this is fair market value at this time for junk silver. he mulled it over, while i counted how many half dollar coins he had for sale. there were 50 of them. face value $25.00, fair market price of $100.00

he had a very confused look on his face, he said he would take $60 for all of them. i could hardly believe what is said, he misintrepeted my facial expression and before i could say a word he said " ok ok, i will take $50, but not a bit less" i asked him "are you sure" he affirmed and i quickly paid him and walked off with the junk silver coins. i do not take advantage of people, but my theory of flea markets is, if you are selling, you need to either be good at figuring in your head, or take your time with calculator and pencil/paper. i have been ripped off too many times at flea markets, so i merrily went on my way. lol what can i say?

my point is, the economy is good for most people, money is not tight and service is just damn poor. really bad service. i have friends who manage business and stores, and they just flat out cannot get help, let alone good help. they figure when push comes to shove and the chips are down, some help is better than no help at all. if the economy were not so good, less jobs available, these lazy ignorant slobs would not be hired at all, and if they did they would be fired very quickly.

another true story to share and then i will quit pontificating. i recently had a problem with my visa card. i called visa and they acknowledged there was a problem but did not know if they wished to fix it or not. i told them if the problem were not taken care of to my satisfaction, i would close my account with them and take my business elsewhere to another issuing bank. i was totally shocked when the representative told me " fine, no problem, you can close your account and go elsewhere. we have so many customers that we really don't care if we lose a few." i was totally shocked. how would you have reacted? of course i am closing that visa card !!!

ok only one more and i promise i will stop !!! do you remember when you went to walmart and in big big huge letters, very prominently on the outside, and inside too, was a slogan "satisfaction guaranteed". have you noticed all these signs are now gone ???? they are. what does that tell you? it tells me they have made so much money, killed so much competition, that it is no longer necessary to satisfy the customer.

thanks for listening to me. its how i feel, and i guess i did vent a bit. have a great day and take care.........gene

-- gene ward (gward34847@aol.com), April 30, 2000.


I've been going round and round with GTE, our local phone carrier. In July of 99 they sent out a notice of their new service choices for our area. The lowest cost one was 9.29 per month + .04 a call. I sent my choice back in and went on about my business. Several months later I checked and my billing showed 11.29 per month. Check back a few months and it had started out at 9.29 and then after two months mysteriously increased. Called the company and spent quite a while on hold (I think they figure you'll give up) and nobody could tell me why the increase. Finally this gal named Tina said she would have to call me back, she couldn't find any info about my account. That was 5 weeks ago, bill came through and it's still 11.29. Two dollars a month is probably not much to lots of folks, but it makes a difference to me and it's the principal of the thing. If you need to charge more then tell me. These companies have you because where else am I going to go for my local carrier. I could get a cell phone but need connection for the computer. I think companies get away with this because so many people just pay a bill and don't check the figures.

My daughter had purchased a Boyd figurine from a store in Lansing, when she got home with it she had that figurine already and wanted to return it and exchange it for a different one. She picked one out at the same price and took it to the register. The original had been purchased with a coupon. The clerk proceeded to take her original, ring up the exchange and tell her she owed 4.14. This is for an exchange mind you, because the first one was on a coupon. Kelly pointed this out and the clerk said it didn't matter. Kelly worked in a store like this one, spends a lot of money in this one, (more than mom thinks is necessary by the way) and told the clerk she felt that was poor customer service and asked for the manager. When the manager came she said if you have a coupon we can take that off. Kelly was livid and return the figureine for the full amount, put down the $50 worth of stuff she was going to buy and told the manager and everyone within hearing distance, she felt that was poor service and she would not shop there anymore and left the store. Go Girl!!! This kind of mentality would never have flown when I work for J.C.Penny in the seventies. I guess companies don't feel the customer is important, but listen to them complain when people start buying more from the internet!! Service is one thing, quality of merchandise offered is yet another I won't address now, but boy o boy where did the good stuff at a reasonable price go.

We need to continue to shop at and support the local, mom and pop places, at least the local hardware store know what I'm talking about when I go in and ask for something and I don't get some kid with ring everywhere who looks at me with a blank stare.

-- Betsy (betsyk@pathwaynet.com), April 30, 2000.


Well over a month ago I was building deer fence aroud my garden, while unloading some of the 45-4x4 posts I had bought, one spilt pretty bad. The following day I called the lumber yard and told them the problem, they said bring it back. I fianlly got around to returneing it 3 dyas ago, there was no problem, no questions of examination of the product. I like that kind of service but I am not talking about Home Depot ot Supply One, but a home town independent supplier. On the other hand I recently ordered a carburetor rebuild kit for my tractor and when it came the main component did not fit, not even close, (Made in USA.) I expect that from offshore parts but not OEM, I made due without.

-- Hendo (OR) (redgate@echoweb.net), April 30, 2000.

Grant,

The Pamida is in Osceola, IA. They have always had bad service since I have lived here, it is just getting worse.

Sonda, I agree the public is also worse. Unfortunately, many feel that they are being taken advantage of and feel powerless so they take it out on the people they can get at - the clerks in stores.

About the GTE problem, send a complaint to the state regulators in your state. I am going to do that with Sprint as one of the problems has been the same thing. I am supposed to pay .07/min state-to-state and .12/min in-state-toll and when I figured it out, I was paying .0787 an .132 - not enough that most people would notice just eye-balling the bill, but Sprint is making big bucks on. I had taken the calculator to mine because of previous problems and we run several hundred minutes a month so it didn't look quite right.

Now I do have to give a good story. The owner of the Saddle shop I go to is wonderful. I have called her and ask her to pick out something for my daughter's birthday (she knows my daughter and has good taste) that my daughter picked up and I paid for later, she has stayed late when I desperately needed something and ordered things that she didn't normally carry and sold me used saddles at great prices. Sometimes her prices are higher than catalogs or some other shop, but I still give her most of my business. There are times I might go in there grumpy, but she always puts a smile on my face.

Like someone else mentioned, this is not a chain, but locally owned and operated. Maybe that is where the problem is with the big chains - no ties to the community nor do they care.

-- beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), April 30, 2000.



Joel, hi, your comment in brackets is the understatement of the day.

I have many example of both good and bad service. More good out in the country than in the city. But, let me ask you this: Do you acknowledge outstanding service when you receive it? I try very hard to at least give verbal praise for service that is above and beyond the call. There are all kinds of people and jobs, and if we all loved doing our jobs then they wouldn't have to pay us. Honestly, just about whatever someone is doing all day away from home, they would rather not be doing it. Or maybe not doing it that day, or at the moment you walk up.

I tip exorbitantly for excellent service. I tell people how helpful they have been (for their assistance). I go back to the auto mechanic, the hardware store, etc. where I was treated respectfully, even if it isn't the cheapest or most convenient. I was a waitress for about ten years. Serving the public is about like being slave for rent. Some people appreciate the pampering, and some people appreciate the power trip.

If someone stuck me in the Burger King drive-through, I would really suck at my job, that's all I'm saying.

Overall, here in MN, I would say we have a fair amount of pride in our work and a healthy dose of Minnesota-nice.

-- Rachel (rldk@hotmail.com), April 30, 2000.


hello me again :) lol

what about restaurant service? if i get even semi-decent service, i usually tip 15-20 %, as i know that is a hard job. but when i run out of water or my drink, and i have to wait 10-15 minutes, and finally in desperation have to wave my arms at the waitress/waiter, and have to ASK them to refill my drink, then finally they come back by and flop the check on the table without comment or thanking me, i certainly DO NOT feel like tipping. and they wonder why i don't leave any tip under those circumstances? get real !! i may live thriftily but when i do splurge, i do tip well also. i may be thrifty but i am NOT cheap lol

and have you noticed that those "tip jars" are popping up everywhere? places that one never saw them in before, and people who do nothing to deserve a tip? jeezzzzzz give me a break. it's crazy to see them in gas stations, convenience stores, etc etc. some time ago i made a purchase, and the clerk reached over and dropped my change into the tip jar. when i asked for my change ( why should i HAVE to ask?) she looked at me like i was both crazy and a cheap skate. i was so incensed i probably turned purple! lol

ok i will stop pontificating. well, for right now anyway :)

gene

-- gene ward (gward34847@aol.com), April 30, 2000.


Poor service for their bucks. I thought that Joel was having problems with his buck sevicing his does! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 30, 2000.

I bought a dress at a department store in Boston.The tag read "10% additional off at the register".The price of the dress was $79.00.The young woman rang up the sale and said "That will be $7.90"..I replied, "No, that is minus $7.90, so the dress costs $61.10." I smiled when I said that..figured the kid would say OH my goodness, thank you for being so honest...instead, she glared at me and said "Are you telling me I don't know how to count"?????? hee hee hee...I apologized to her for being so presumptuous, and paid the $7.90 for the dress.Usually, what I do when confronted with ill-mannered clerks is to make a scene..such as...in the check-out line at the supermarket, when the clerks are too busy chatting with each other from three aisles away and tossing your groceries around,I stop putting my food on the conveyor belt...eventually, they notice.Then I say.."It's ok.Obviously your conversation is very important.I'll just wait here until you are done".For rude waitresses,I put a five dollar bill on the table next to a penny and then ask, "Which one would you prefer for a tip tonight?" I get angry looks, and rolled eyes, but excellent service.

-- Lesley Chasko (martchas@gateway.net), April 30, 2000.

I used to work 14-16 hour days, and in the month of December, 29 out of 31 days. I worked for a very well known (for exemplary customer service) specialty retailer (Swedish name, starts with N). I was a manager and sometimes had a crew of up to 35 people on my team. We did things like oh, drive a dress to a customer 35 miles away, drive to another store to pick up something for a customer and hand carry it back to them that same day...etc. Some managers slept in their cars the night before a big sale (after setting up for those huge things for days)and then worked bleary eyed for many consecutive days (3/12 weeks for one big event in August). Not trying to sound like a martyr (I finally wised up a good number or years ago!), but to me, *that* is customer service...going the extra mile. Believe me, the customers (with rare exception) love you for taking care of them, and treat you just as well right back. It goes both ways. I just don't understand the culture of these big companies these days...hire a bunch of folk who don't care and then don't train them or attempt to motivate them. Bad management!!!

All I can say is that living more self sufficiently is best for those of us who would prefer to stay out of stores and/or deal with people "serving" us, period.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), April 30, 2000.



Good grief, Sonda, where on earth do you live? I've owned my own business for many years too and had some problems with the general public but not on a daily basis. No wonder you got out of the business!!

I agree, it is getting bad out there for both customers and businesses. It seems to be a general bad attitude on both sides.

My main complaint is that the service one receives has nothing in common with the commercials. Where are the smiling faces, the helpful attitudes, etc. To say nothing of getting the order right at the fast food places.

I used to ask for the manager and lodge a complaint or give a compliment but I just don't have the time or energy to bother with it anymore. The compliments I still give----really doesn't take too much time. The managers don't seem to give a darn anyway.

Happy shopping, Doug

-- Doug Shutes (toadshutes@yahoo.com), April 30, 2000.


I can identify with most of these stories. And yes, it is getting bad out there. Sheepish hit the problem squarely on the head. Bad Management. I don't even bother with employees any more, I go straight for the manager. Why bother with untrained, unqualified and apathitic people when you can get a person that is all 3 of these wound up in one. AKA--the head Idiot. I think the problem is what the country refers to as-Mobile Management. The average time a person keeps the same employment in the USA is 7 years. When I grew up most adults kept the same job for their entire life. It mattered if a customer was unsatisfied because --if he didn't return than your business suffered. I had my fill with a company called, Home Depot. After my special order windows came in than they decided to up the bill(for delivery). I refused delivery. The head idiot lost a 2000.00 dollar sale over a 40 dollar delivery charge. The windows are odd sizes so he will eat a bigger loss on the merchandise. I lost a 50.00 deposit. We have a little Mom and Pop store near me. These people are "old School" business persons. They all you by name, check your oil and they have fair prices. Great home baked goods and a smile for everyone. It is called Custer's Last Stand and it is owned by Bobby Custer and his lovely wife. If anyone is ever traveling along Highway 311 near New Castle, Va. than I suggest you give them a try. I think they could teach the big boys a lot about how to run a business and keep the customer satisfied !

-- Joel Rosen (Joel681@webtv.net), April 30, 2000.

Gosh Joel, I'd say you lost more than $50, you didn't get your windows! kim

-- kim (fleece@eritter.net), April 30, 2000.

Boy, am I counting my blessings tonight. We must have really good people up here because most of the time clerks are very friendly and helpful. When the Walmart came into town, they insisted on smiling, helpful clerks and it wasn't too long before all the stores were following suit. Our home improvement store, Menard's, is super for answering questions and any other help you need.

When we wanted to build our new house (in the country) we wanted to have a separate mobile home for my parents to live in. We knew it would be temporary, relatively speaking, and wanted to be able to remove it some day. By county rules, we had to have 2 septic systems and 2 wells to do it that way. The head zoning guy thought about it for a while and suggested that if we attached the mobile home to our new house, we could call it a "duplex" and that would be fine as long as the septic system was large enough for all the bedrooms. It was a perfect solution. So even the local government is pretty nice. Now I'm really glad we live where we do.

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), April 30, 2000.


It just never ends! Went to a garden shop today, attached to a large discount store, which will remain nameless (starts with a K). Their power was out, but they were tryiing to handle the customers that were in the store at the time. There was a 50% off sale, and I had a purchase that was exactly $10. After standing in line for what seemed forever, I handed my purchase to the clerk, a woman about 50, and reminded her nicely that it was 50% off. She couldn't figure out what 50% of 10.00 was! I told her $5, she didn't believe me. I even showed her how to figure it out on her little hand-held calculator, but it was too complicated. She finally announced she could only accept the exact change from anyone in line, in cash or check, and no more discounts on merchandise that was on sale for 50% off! It isn't just the kids with multiple piercings that can't/won't do their jobs! How does one get hired if they don't pass a simple math test? Jan

-- Jan B (Janice12@aol.com), April 30, 2000.

Jan, Sheesh!!! I had to take retail math tests, word comprehension tests, and some kind of personality assessments for my job(s) in the retail world. A lot has changed in 20 years apparently...I guess they figure nobody would pass these days, so why bother. Gee, it would only affect a company's sales, margins, and ROI...no big deal!

Just one other word...my husband works for a small town (relatively speaking) lumber company. He practically *builds* the houses for his customers...not just for the owner-builders, but for the CONTRACTORS!!! He does the take-offs, suggests the least expensive way to go about building the structures, and (don't tell anyone) has also done some "engineering" for his customers so they don't go in and get shot down by the county building permit department. He works his a** off, always >55+ hours a week, has saved hundreds of people many thousands of dollars, and is in very high demand as an estimator. He is my hero, and one to others, too. That is also what I call customer service!! (poor guy, though...then he comes home to his crazy wife, and all the animals!!! LOL!).

I would have to also agree: keep your money in small, local businesses. They may not be around for long. Enjoy them while you still can.

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), April 30, 2000.


You really know how to stir things up Joel! and funny you should ask. I treated myself a while back to a cheap-seats inexpensive chinese knock-off of a dewalt cordless 18volt circular saw as a mate to my 18v drill, thinking I'd have an extra battery for either tool. The drill I've been happy with for the money and thinking I'd get similar satisfaction from the saw. The saw itself is ok but the battery sucks. The charge doesn't last 15 minutes in the drill which is more energy efficient than the saw. I called Harbor freight to squawk, since its out of warranty, though used very little. First jumped thru a bunch of hoops with the voice mail, finally got to the right dept and wound up on hold, waiting for the next available customer service representative, listening to this repeated message "Their goal is 100 $ customer satisfaction". About 20 minutes of that, then silence for another 10 minutes before I hung up, P.O.'d. I'll be emailing them when I get done here. I'll be suggesting if that is their goal, they need to hire more customer service reps!

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), May 01, 2000.

Boy, oh boy, do NOT get me started on phone companies. We were called by Sprint Canada some time ago, who we are NOT with, and offered an "amazing" deal. Right. Anyhow -- the woman spent several minutes extolling the virtues of giving Sprint Canada our long distance dollars, not allowing me a word in edgewise (I guess my mother raised me to be too polite -- I've never been able to hang up on these people). When she finally stopped to take a breath, I managed, "No, thank you." The woman then had the gall to say to me, well, the phone isn't in your name. It's in your husband's. Perhaps I could speak to him."

Needless to say, Arlene no longer works for Sprint Canada.

-- Tracy (trimmer@westzone.com), May 01, 2000.


Re: the telemarketers, I used to be polite, finally got tired of it and I tell them once -- butting in if they won't stop talking -- that I'm not interested. Then I hang up. Period. I don't have time to waste. Oh, and I usually tell them that because their company called, we wouldn't buy anything from them even if we went out looking for whatever product or service they sell -- they are off our list of potential suppliers forever. That has stunned a few of them. Otherwise, for the most part, I haven't experienced too much bad service, but I don't do a lot of shopping!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), May 01, 2000.

I'm involved with customer service for a LARGE company (that shall remain nameless), and 99% of the people I support are internal to the organization, and it's amazing how rude and crude they can even be - and they called me for help!

Told more than one once to just stop and listen to what I'm telling them. If they don't want my help, why did they call me in the first place?!

Anyway, working in a support position, I see how the PHB's (Pointy Haired Bosses for those of you who don't follow Dilbert) don't have a CLUE. In fact, it seems to me that the way things work is that the more $$ you make, the less work you do, and that the less common sense you have, the higher up the ladder you are.

The higher up the ladder you are, the higher you want to go, but then you have to play the CYA game to survive the corporate feeding frenzy when it hits the fan. The more you CYA, the less real work you do. And on and on and on. It's incredible. They have no idea of what goes on in the trenches, and spend all day in meetings beating a dead horse for the 3rd time that year.

We had a problem with our phone support availability times, so we changed the way the calls flow, and it worked GREAT. People were actually telling the VP how much better things were. But then, the old way of doing things must have turned into cheese and aged into some REALLY good sharp chedder, becasue we went back to doing things the old way (and not becuase the VP said to either!).

Corporate America is just another name for BRAIN VACUUM. Once I have the house paid for, I'm gone! Without the mortgage, I could afford to work at a local store for minimum wage, and say "Thank you Ma'am, please come again."

-- Eric Stone (ems@nac.net), May 01, 2000.


Customer service is a national problem, and it's all our fault. If, as a collective of consumers, we hadn't allowed business to cut corners and get away with less and less attention to detail (customer service, quality, you name it) for the sake of saving a buck.....

My answer is simple: Force business to conduct itself the way we want. How? 1st- Be polite. 2nd- Let the offender know what is wrong and offer a solution. Too many people bitch, gripe, and moan but do little to improve the situation. 3rd- Be polite. 4th- If at first you don't succeed, move up the chain. When you can't go up any more or can't get results, take your business elsewhere. Be polite and let them know why you won't be coming back for X amount of time. 5th- Do come back and at least see if they improved. 6th- Reward good service. Even a kind word goes a long way.

I'm not trying to be preachy. Like a lot of you I've lived in the big city and rural countryside. I've even been overseas for a number of years. I know it's hard being on the working end of that register or computer having to deal with the likes of us for a poor wage.

This stuff works. I managed to save about $800 when I bought my last car just by doing this. I brought my car back from Germany and had to pay sales tax when it was time to register it here. Luckily for me I could either register it in my home of record (Iowa) or Texas, where I was moving to. Both states wanted me to pay tax on the car for the full purchase price. I didn't think it was fair to pay "extra" tax on a two year old car, not to mention the full price included the warranty, extra shipping, and financing. After some going back and forth, being polite, and explaining to Iowa that tax on the current value of the car is better than getting no $$ at all (paying Texas tax), we can to a compromise. If I hadn't worked on it, it wouldn't have happened. It doesn't matter if it is a county tax office or the local harware store.

-- Chris Stogdill (cstogdill@rmci.net), May 01, 2000.


Doug, this is Sonda & you asked where I live that the public was so awful that I was threatened each day & closed my business? I'm in Kansas! When, we bought a Mom & Pop motel that had very little business/ we remodeled & went after a family & business & working class. The former business was guns & drugs & others of the same type& the local law in forcement was involved! I was there 5yrs, 6 months, 108 days & 6 hrs. but who was counting!ha! I built (or maybe I should say God blessed us) with a great business. Before we sold I was full on the reservation books with "regulars" for the next 5 yrs. I only took reservations from the clients we had built that you had no problems with. (most of these people we called "motel family members")But even through we built a good business--we were along a busy hwy & in rural America & that acording to KBI is a favorite hit for the bad guys! Some day I plan to write a book about my life/ owning a Mom & Pop motel in rural USA. When we sold there we moved to the small town we live in now. We bought an 11, 000 sq. ft. warehouse that had been an abandoned manufacturing plant. put on a new roof, painted it, remodeled it & I put in a Country store. I bought out house holds/ & anything you wanted & if I didn't have it- I would I would find it for you. We put in a coffee shop, started a news paper. We bought an old home & remolded it/ where we live. Bought 3 other properties that no one had cared for them for years/ & are repairing them. We bought lots that were filled with junk & rats/ & we hauled off the junk & planted orchards. Now when we started our business/ since there were maybe 50 people here on a warm day I knew I'd have to bring others to town if I was to survive-& the "locals" benifit from us. Well we were "OUTSIDERS"-- who came to town & brought more "OUTSIDERS" into this town. The locals said, no one would come to my store & I would fall on my face! WELL PEOPLE CAME & I WAS THAT TERRIBLE WORD --SUCCESSFUL!!!!! In a town where success had not been. SO OUR LOCAL TOWN DRUNK / WHO WAS ALSO THE MAYOR & HIS GIRLFRIEND decided to do what ever it would take to run us out of town!!!!!! Vandalism, threats on a 24 hour basis, (they even sat out side my business & told people to get out of town!) I could write for 6 months & never tell you all they have done to us! We decided to sell out & move--but when someone was interested in buying us out-- the town ran them off--another book I could write!!! The harrassment & vandalism got so bad / we locked up the doors of our business, & a friend wrote our story in a LARGE KS. newspaper as we were afraid of what they might do to us! Then if something happened at least someone would know the truth! The drunk mayor died--but his "groupies" & girlfriend are still trying to run the city!!!! Rules & laws do not apply here!!!! We are building a church here( and almost all attending are "outsiders") & if we were not Christains--& God to believe in & see us through I have no clue what we would do!!!!!!

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), May 01, 2000.

I would just like to point out ( I think I said something to this effect on another thread) that as long as we continue to pump up the stock market with our 401k money, private investments, etc., but PARTICULARLY with the 401k money (no other place to invest at your company, please note!!), corporations will always have an incentive to continually beat earnings expectations. This means: profits, which most often means: cutting costs. Costs are cut by minimizing overhead, which often means hiring people for cheap, not providing "expensive" training, and using volume sales (with low margins, even)to shore up profits. So, even if the salespeople are idiots, if they sell enough of those $7.90 dresses (see above) they can might still show a profit (well, that's totally stretching it, I admit!)

It continues to be an interesting battle: Stockholders vs. Consumers (and the funniest thing is, they are often the same!). I guess that means you can be willing to put up with outrageous NON-customer service behavior, as long as your portfolio looks good.

BTW, it is entirely true about the Dilbertization of Corporate America. I worked my way up to where I could no longer avoid it...there is so much CYA that there is NO time to do anything productive. And that's exactly why I retired!!! Ok, I'll shut up now...

-- sheepish (rborgo@gte.net), May 01, 2000.


Interesting telco story.

I had paging service in my previous home city. We moved - same service not available here. So I cancelled. No problem. I left with a 2.54 credit due. For 7 months they sent me monthly statements that I had a credit balance. I called 3 times before they sent me a refund check. I finally had to ask for the customer service manager on the last call to get someone to recognize what I was trying to do.

If you don't like telemarketing calls, visit www.junkbusters.com. Plunder around there and print out the 'telemarketing' sheet. Keep it by the phone - USE IT. It works. When the caller hears you ask if they are making a 'solicitation' call, their tone and attitude change. Also, junkbusters.com junk mail removal system works too.

j

-- j (jw_hsv@yahoo.com), May 02, 2000.


I give thanks every day I'm not doing it anymore but I did mall security for a couple of years so I've seen it all from both sides, the store owners/employees and customers. The mall being in a major university town only made matters worse.

Some of the help that the stores hired were just incredible, not only brainless (but many managed to get into the university) but utterly disinterested in doing a good job. Exacerbating this were store policies that seemed designed to intentionally kill any initiative on the part of employees and to actually promote disatisfaction! At the same time many of the stores would not/could not pay for proper training and follow up. There were some exceptions to this but they were the exception rather than the rule.

On the other side of the aisle some of the customers would have to have been seen to be believed! We threw more than a few out on their ear with a firm understanding that they'd be trespassed if they came back that day. We had one fellow who was irate and shouting at the top of his lungs because our chain (they're in a lot of malls) nutritional products store wouldn't give him a refund on an herbal diuretic that he'd bought. He was enraged at them because he claimed he lost his job because the product didn't work. It turns out he was trying to beat a drug test by using the herbs. The display clearly had a sign that said those items could not be refunded, returned or exchanged and what's more, since he had half the box left he plainly had not followed the directions on the package (which I did read when we got involved) so any failure was as a result of his negligence. He finally decided an arrest was more than he was willing to bargain for so he left.

Of course by the time the stores or a customer was willing to call in mall security things had gotten pretty much out of hand so everything we saw was bad. So much of the problems we were forced to expedite were as a result of poor communication or uwarranted assumptions either on the part of the customer, the store or both. We had one "discount" jewelry store that I quietly told we would allow the next irate customer to beat his a@# before we responded if he did not put out clear signage about his non-refund policy, particularly on his "10kt gold jewelry." We were doggone tired of taking out his irate customers who felt they'd been cheated because he hadn't been clear about returns and refunds. He finally put out good signs and our calls to that business plummeted.

Some of our "customers" were making a living off of fraudulent exchanges which is why so many stores are getting as particular as they are about these kinds of things. The other kinds of thieves would boggle the imagination. We busted one kid who'd managed to put five *thousand* dollars of Tommy Hilfiger merchandise into *one* large shopping bag! Hilfiger was the single most stolen designer name in the entire mall and I wouldn't wear anything with that name on it if it was given to me. We had another lady who faked going into labor to avoid being booked for the grand theft we'd just busted her for. Stolen credit cards, frauds, swindles, counterfeiting, you name it. This is Gainesville, Fl I'm talking about not Orlando or Miami. The aunt who talked her 8 year old niece into stealing the counter sample bottle of Chanel perfume for her really torqued me off. I hate, hate, hate busting young children! Well, it took about a half-hour to put all the pieces together and when we did we released the child and busted the aunt!

That job probably did more to sour my outlook on the human condition than all of my other life experiences combined. I could probably get onto a forty paragraph rant about Christmas alone. If you've got locally owned businesses then support them! You may pay a bit more but those folks probably care *deeply* about your business. If you're making a purchase most especially a big ticket item get it *clear* in your mind what the store's refund and return policies are. If it's plain that you and/or the sales help you're dealing with are having a bit of a language problem the be *patient* about trying to communicate and not so doggone quick to take offense. If you're a merchant or working for a merchant remember what business you're in. If it's not in selling a desirable product to your customer at a fair price you're in the wrong business. So far as shoplifting is concerned, folks most businesses have gotten very matter of fact about it. You get caught and it's a trip to the county lock up for prints and photoes whether it was a $2.00 item or a $200.00 item. At least here in Florida it is.

I'll get off my rant now. Man, I'm am *so* glad I'm not doing that work anymore. I never did have the cop mentality to make that kind of work sustainable for me.

.........Alan.



-- A.T. Hagan (athagan@netscape.net), May 02, 2000.


My, what an immense amount of energy & anger everybody has put into this area! Just reading it was getting me stressed. My first suggestion is to not spend your money at chains, francises, absentee owner businesses in the first place. Do not support faceless corporate entities, but rather, keep your money local and deal with real human beings. (With phone companies we really have no choice though, it's true.) If it costs 10% more to buy from a small individual business than to go to Finagle Hardware or Home Despot, then your money is keeping a real person in business, a person who is going to spend their share of that 10% in the community, at the cafe your friend owns, or having your brother the mechanic fix their truck, and pay taxes to support the local schools. It enriches the community. And you almost always get better, more knowledgable service. It comes back to you. And even if it didn't, you would know that your "labor-exchange-certificates"(money),which are a translation of your time & energy, did not go to support mediocrity and greed. Will that stop mediocrity & greed? Probably not. But you will be limiting your exposure to it. And, really, life is too good to waste time ranting & roiling...I mean, hain't y'all got a garden to tend to?....

-- snoozy (allen@oz.net), May 04, 2000.

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