Luka and Carol : LUSENET : ER Discussions : One Thread

Okay, everybody, I saw that. SHE kissed HIM. Poor guy, he's opened up his heart and soul, told her everything about his tragedy (however irrational, he's probably got survivor's guilt), and now she's going to leave him.

-- Felicity (, April 27, 2000


Well, he kissed her, too! I don't know what to think of this. In a way, they have developed this relationship in a much more believable way than the Cleo and Benton thing. It has developed slowly over time, starting with friendship. They would be a good couple, except that she is leaving, and whatever happened to her undying love for Doug?

-- Melanie (, April 27, 2000.

i refuse to accept the kiss between carol and luka, it's just so wrong! she loves doug! i remember reading in a post a while back after the first cleo/benton kiss at the pool place that they were giving us that gross cleo/benton kiss to prepare us for an even worse one to come later (carol/luka). but still, as i saw it coming, i was screaming "no, no!" at my tv, and then letting out a sigh of disappointment when i saw it was a reality.

-- Marcia (, April 27, 2000.

Hey. I think that Carol and Luka make one of the sweetest couples on ER. Point A. They're both alive. Anyway, they're way better together than Benton/Finch. And I think this shows that Carol has moved on with her life, no longer dwelling on Doug and the past, and that Luka is trying to move on from his life in Croatia. They both had difficult pasts, but I'm glad that they've accepted it and realized that it's time to move on. Now that I no longer hate Carol (as of tonight), I wish she wasn't leaving in what, three eppys, because of Luka.

-- Monica (, April 28, 2000.

I haven`t had the chance to watch "Fastest Year" yet, but I`m looking forward to the Luka/carol interaction. Although I4m a huge D/C Fan I appreciate the very special relationship Carol and Luka have build up. I still think she loves Doug and her kiss is a spontanious reaction to the sudden feeling of understanding she felt for Luka and she felt Luka felt for her (uuggh). They are both in a very similar position as some of you pointed out. I have to think of the Powell Kiss. I know many disliked it, but I always felt it was so in character. Carol felt drawn to Greg when he told her about his mothers suicide. In that scene I thought she was sharing the same feelings about her fathers death. No need to worry about her love to Doug. He himself understood, that Carol still loved him after a few moments of unvertainty and jealousy. Just my opinion of course. (Sorry for bad grammar) Susie

-- Susie (, April 28, 2000.

You guys, I don't know WHAT to think!! She kissed him, but he kissed back and it didn't seem to me to be a kiss filled with passion. I rather hope Carol is TESTING to see if she has really moved on. She's struggling with whether or not she is "over" Doug, and clearly next week she gets some nice package from an "old friend." The look on her face speaks volumes.

Needless to say, I am still shook up even having been prepared (I read a Spoiler this afternoon). Anyhow, notice how quiet she got when the Doug subject came up (not his name, but his relation to her and her daughters). She is definately not over him, and will soon realize that no matter what she does or who she's with, she'll always long for Doug. That's the way it's been since the beginning.

Anyhow, folks, just think lovely thoughts!! Be transported to the days of yesteryear...of the passionate kiss Carol shared with Doug on her porch. This kiss with Luka was nowhere NEAR as longing, passionate, lusty, or showing true attraction. That kiss with Doug in "One More For The Road" is really the mother of all kisses, one hell of a damn good kiss!! Nothing can compare to that. Nothing!!

-- Arianne (, April 28, 2000.

that was one of the worst kisses i have ever seen on tv! no chemistry whatsoever. im sure they will both realize it, and move on.

-- Alexis (, April 28, 2000.

I agree, no passion. Not even a hesitary look from Carol, it was odd, like it wasn't even a kiss. Too bad, they're both wonderful people, and good friends. I don't know, I miss Doug. A whole lot.

-- Elaine (, April 28, 2000.

I found Arianne's idea very likely. The idea Carol was just TESTING if it felt right. It's just as if she thought to herself: When I kiss him, will I feel anything for him? Will I forget Doug about that kiss? That might sound corny know, but as a lot of people remarked here, there was no passion in this kiss. Maybe because both of them felt that they were still in love with their former partners, that they weren't ready to move on as if they hadn't had a past with someone else.

-- Anne (, April 28, 2000.

I agree with Monica: I really like Luka and Carol together. Furthermore, I simply don't remember the Doug/Carol relationship as being soooo wonderful. I never fully trusted Doug; he seemed pretty selfish; I can fully understand why Carol is ambivalent now. Remember what Doug said to her when he told her he was moving? ("There's nothing here for me now" or words to that effect.) Which episodes did I miss that portrayed their deep, abiding love/passion? In terms of the passion level of Carol and Luka last night, the whole end to the episode was a quiet, subtle one...the quiet of that scene with Kerry and the little boy, the quiet of Mark and his father on the boat, and then the quietness (and understandable tentativeness) of Carol and Luka. He does reach out to her, wants the kiss...I think there's plenty of understated passion there. But my biggest question concerns Doug/Carol--I just don't get that their relationship was a world-rocking one.

-- Julia (, April 28, 2000.

I had the strangest reaction to that final scene with Carol and Luka. At first, as they were moving toward the kiss, I was screaming "no, stop! Carol, you love Doug! You love Doug!" Then as soon as they actually started kissing I just couldn't stop laughing. I have no idea why, I just did. Did anyone else have that reaction? Maybe it's because I knew how many of you would react to the kiss. Or maybe it's because my fairly perceptive spouse was moving his hands apart as Carol and Luka were coming together. Sorry, you probably had to see that to get the full effect, but it was so funny.

I agree with many of you that this kiss is what Carol needs to see how much she really loves and misses Doug, but I'm not sure I really wanted to see it. I feel bad for Luka. I really like his character. Does he really need this after all that has happened to him? I know that he's kind of been the one pushing the whole thing, but I wish he would wake up and see that this is not what's best for him right now. I am hoping that we will see or hear from Doug in the coming episodes and this will all be straightened out!

-- cherry (, April 28, 2000.

Okay, I'll probably get hate mail for this, but I'm really sick of the Carol/Luka/Doug story. Since she's getting ready to ride off into the sunset, why do they have to drag another man in for her to fall in love with. How many men has she fallen in love with now? Maybe JM is tired of being paired up with everybody & decided to leave! That's all it's ever been about with her. She's got all these "issues" with Doug, and can't she trust him, blah, blah, blah..I never liked Carol/Doug together. If he caused her that much pain in the beginning, then she should've never gone back to him. Sorry folks, but I'd just like to see better storylines rather than seeing everyone's love life. I know that we need to see a personal life too, but enough's enough!

-- Ellen (, April 28, 2000.

He finally told her about his past - he finally told her why he was hurting so much and what does she do? She doesn't give him a hug, she doesn't open up and be honest with him, she gives him a kiss! A kiss! For goodness sake! And to think she was probably just testing him at a time when he was so vulnerable and so wretched. It doesn't seem right at all. He's her friend and they're very close friends and have great affection for each other but its not right for her to do that to him.

Of course he kissed her back. What would any man do if he's feeling that vulnerable and suddenly a beautiful woman kisses him? Deep down Carol knows she doesn't love him so how can she do that to him, it's so obviously wrong and not because she's in love with Doug, that's her own affair - if she is prepared to be screwed around and lied to by the father of her children that's fine, she can live with it, but it's not fair to go and kiss Luka because she's unsure how she's feeling. He needs her more than anything as a friend - just like Carter needs a friend, their situations are similar, but the last thing he needed at that moment was kiss.

Sorry, my feelings are very strong about this :-D Luka and Carol would have made a wonderful couple but not in this situation - if she'd met him before Doug, or before her babies, or if she hadn't had the twins. I think the main reason Carol misses Doug so much is because he's the father of her children. If it weren't for this fact she would have been able to get over him. Maybe now Luka's opened up to someone he can move on but I think giving him a kiss will just make him regretful. She knows she could never really be with him, just as she can never see her kids looking at him like a father so she shouldnt have done that.

BTW - of course the kiss didn't have the passion and chemistry that Carol and Doug's parting kiss did, the reasons are obvious, and it's obviously wrong that she even kissed him so the two kisses shouldn't even be compared because the circumstances and feelings are entirely different. If it looked unnatural it was MEANT to.

-- Juliet (, April 28, 2000.

Juliet, WHOA. It wasn't as if Carol thought to herself, "I will kiss him to see if I am ready to move on." Not at all. It was just a moment where they both felt connected to one another. He's wanted to kiss her since the barbeque at her house, and there was just something in the air where they BOTH thought, "Maybe...?"

You make it seem as if Carol is using Luka and he is not at ALL using her. First of all, the character does NOT know that she is leaving!! The fans do, but you must remember this is in TV Land. In TV Land Doug has been living in Seattle for a year and a half and Carol has been struggling with the issue of whether or not her life is better when he's not in it. At that point, when Carol and Luka kissed, she doesn't know where she'll end up. WE know that, most likely, she'll go to Seattle. Carol is not a mind-reader and can't possibly foresee the future when she's this confused and lonely.

If they were using each other, it was mutual. Carol kissing Luka may have been, "Am I over Doug?" Did you ever consider that Luka kissing Carol back was, "Am I ready to move on?" Luka is a big boy who can take care of himself. Even if Carol has never said much about it, it's obvious she comes with a lot of baggage. She wore an engagement ring into the sixth or seventh month of her pregnancy, she's raising two baby girls alone, she becomes withdrawn or curt whenever the subject of the man who gave her those babies comes up. So no, she's never said anything directly about her past, but what appears on the surface is enough to let anyone know that if you want to get involved with Carol, you're getting involved in what is probably a very sticky situation, and could be risky. He seems MORE than ready to take that risk, IMO.

-- Arianne (, April 28, 2000.

I've got to say, I am completely a Doug and Carol fan, but after watching the moment again, if I were Carol I would have kissed him, he was sweet, a gentleman, expressing his feelings in a modest, but honest way, and I guess it didn't totally disgust me, just like Carol's relationship with Tag didn't disgust me. People need to move on to find out if it's better for them to go back (in her case, to Doug). It's hard to resent Luka, because he's so wonderful, and I'm sure he'll handle her leaving sadly, but maturely, wishing her his best.

-- Elaine (, April 28, 2000.

As you all have probably figured out, I am a Carter fan all the way. However, the storyline with Doug/Carol/Luka is very interesting. I don't know how they are going to resolve it, but last night I just kept thinking that Carol would say something about Doug. I really couldn't believe that she didn't say anything about him when they were at the baseball stadium! Well, I think that something very interesting is in store for us next week in regards to this storyline.

-- Katrina (, April 28, 2000.

Please no more kissing! I think I'm going to barf!

-- Kami Moncell (, April 28, 2000.

BIG post above, not that it's a huge deal, but I meant I didn't mind Carol's relationship with Shep...NOT Tag...I disliked Tag with a passion. I don't know why she was ever with him.

-- Elaine (, April 28, 2000.

I mentioned this in another post too, but it pertains to Carol/Luka/ Doug. I loved the scenes with Carol and Luka in "The Fastest Year". They are so cute together and contrary to other beliefs, I think they have alot of chemistry together. Sure, she had chemistry with Doug too, but their relationship caused her more misery than happiness. So far, she has been nothing but happy with Luka (maybe she is drawn to him because he has had even worse things happen to him than she has!). If she were not leaving I would love for these two to be together. Unfortunately, she will probably be going back to Doug and breaking Luka's heart in the process. The gentleman that he is though, I am sure he will be pushing her toward Seattle!

-- amanda (, April 28, 2000.

Why would Carol's leaving "break" Luka's heart? He doesn't love her, he barely knows her. He has a fondness for her, but there's no way that he is in love with her.

-- Arianne (, April 28, 2000.

In a way I think the thing that may break Luka's heart more than anything is losing the whole idea of Carol and the babies. I think he is drawn to her more because of Kate and Tess.

-- amanda (, April 29, 2000.

Obviously, a lot of people are upset that Luka and Carol are getting romantic so close to her leaving, including me. However, how would it be now if there was no Luka? It would not be as entertaining if Carol just decided out of the blue to go to Doug. She needs conflicting emotions to keep us interested 'til the end. Okay, those die hard Carol fans don't need this, but others do. So I guess it is an okay choice of storylines, but not as good as if Doug came and swept her off her feet.

-- Elaine (, April 29, 2000.

Amanda, I think you're right about Luka being more upset about Carol's leaving because with her she takes what he may have perceived as a possible new family. I don't feel this was ever Carol's intention, since she seems very concerned and worried about how much Tess & Kate see Doug and know him as their father.

If Luka's upset over anything, it may be his feeling as if he's lost his family all over again, rather than lost a woman he loves. Since he is adamant about families being together, I still feel he'd be glad to know that one father out there is getting a chance to have his family, since Luka has lost that with his own.

Hmm..."families" seems to be a consistent theme lately. Carol and hers, Mark and his, Luka's family, even Carter to some extent. Interesting...

-- Arianne (, April 29, 2000.

Arianne, even Kerry was preoccupied with her family earlier this season when she thought she had found her biological mother.

-- amanda (, April 29, 2000. general I agree with your analysis that this kiss was mutual, and I see where you're coming from when you say Carol doesn't know she's leaving. I guess those of us who don't enjoy what is happening know that the WRITERS know she's leaving, and they know that we know...and it kind of seems like they're enjoying that a little too much. I love Luka's character more than any other new one this season (and even some of the older ones!). I would just love to see him play a more important and independent role than just be a pawn in the Carol/Doug saga. Also, after reading the review, I realized I had completely forgotten that Luka HAD said before that his family was "taken and killed" which is very different from a random bombing. Either way it's a horrible loss, but one is much more deliberate and personal. Personally, I am a little sick of Carol "bonding" with these people who have gone through horrible traumas (Powell, Carter last episode, and now Luka). How pitiful, Carol is raising two children alone by CHOICE, two children who apparently have a father who loves them and spends time with them, and loves their mother too much to pressure her into anything. Carol's situation is just that...a choice. Carter had no control over being attacked, and Luka did not CHOOSE to lose his family. She is a bit too self-pitying right now, not the strong, decisive Carol I knew and loved.

-- Becky (, May 02, 2000.

Becky, I don't really think she's "self-pitying." If she were, she'd be talking about HER problems all the time. She doesn't want to do that because Carol, in a way like Carter, doesn't want to admit there's a problem. No, she doesn't have a big psychological issue to deal with, but Carol knows that Doug wants to be with her and she also knows it's hard for her to trust him. By listening to or trying to solve OTHER people's problems (aka Meg), she's avoiding her own problems, which are too difficult to solve.

I am a huge D/C fan, but I will admit, if I were Carol, I'd be hesitant to run off to Seattle -- even though that's what I'm pulling for Carol to do. If I had dated a man who cheated on me relentlessly and made me feel worthless at a time when I, for whatever other reasons, had no self-esteem, I wouldn't be too keen to trust him. If I had then recognized and acknowledged his change, his reform, and had decided that three years later he really is the grown-up he says he is, that I could trust him, and we can date again...well, she probably feels rather "stupid." As much as Carol loves Doug, I'm sure she's kicking herself for trusting him and finally not being "afraid" of losing him - - which is why she pulled back when he was getting so serious, so quickly -- and then watchig him walk out on her.

As much of a "choice" it was for Carol to not follow Doug, it was also a choice of Doug's to move so far away. Chicago was lost on him, that's clear, but St. Louis, Detroit, Grand Rapids -- all of these cities are closer to Chicago than Seattle is. Doug needs to do something, ANYTHING, to prove to Carol that she can trust him again, "this time." Maybe this happens on Thursday...?

-- Arianne (, May 02, 2000.

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