WOW!!!! (April 27/00) : LUSENET : ER Discussions : One Thread

First of all, I think this epi was an excellent episode! Everyone's emotions were soaring. Carter is finally coming to terms, Carol and Luka FINALY KISS, Cleo and Benton are looking like they are going to break up, Abby finally did something good for once, Weaver is back, and Mark is being so sweet to his dad. Please share your insites with me!

-- Stephanie (, April 27, 2000


Response to WOW!!!!

I'd like to know where Weaver's concern for Carter was? Isn't that what the write up for this ep stated? Just a thought. Would have been nice to see more Gamma. And what about next weeks preview? No mention of Carter at all. And Carol and Luka were so funny. Too bad she's leaving. Ah well, that's all I got for now, have to watch it again at 10 pm to get my full thoughts on it, hee hee. One of the good things about living here on the west coast in Canada, double doses of ER!


-- Phantom (, April 27, 2000.

Response to WOW!!!!

Do you think TPTB are throwing cold water on the Benton/Cleo relationship because they're listening to the fan pages and are planning to get rid of the Cleobot? Does she have a multi-year contract?

-- Beth (, April 27, 2000.

Response to WOW!!!!

WOW!! You are quick! I just got to my terminal, I was gonna post an opinion myself.

Carter is trying to come to terms, but he still has a way to go yet. Remember, he's a "whirling dervish" next week, and he gets confronted in the season finale.

I'm glad Mark and David are coming to terms. When David thanked Mark for being there for him, I thought I was going to cry.

Don't get too hung up on Carol and Luka, you know that isn't going to last.

Have no opinion on Benton and Cleo.

Side note: I said this on another thread-I KNEW that was DeRaad talking to Carter in the previews! Hope Carter takes him up on his offer. In addition to helping him "get over" the incident, maybe DeRaad can help him figure out why he can't keep a girlfriend longer than 8 episodes!

-- (, April 27, 2000.

Response to WOW!!!!

I loved how they used the same Simon & Garfunkel song for the scene with Mark and his dad. It seemed like Mark really listened to himself when he was counselling the other family; he can't stop the cancer and keep his dad alive, he needs to listen to David's wishes and spend time with him. I love how he arranged for a boat ride, and had his arm around his dad's shoulder. It's sad to think about all the years he and his dad avoided getting to know each other; I'm glad they did before the end.

-- Felicity (, April 27, 2000.

Response to WOW!!!!

All I could think of during the repulsive kiss scene was, "She loves Doug, she loves Doug, she loves Doug...Doug! Doug! Doug!" Carol isn't ready to move on from Doug and will soon realize she never will be. It wasn't fair to Tag and it wouldn't be fair to anyone else -- sometimes it takes Carol misplaced kisses to lead to clarity in her personal life.

Just as she kissed Powell because she was drawn to him in THAT ONE MOMENT due to their similar personal situations (his mother's suicide, her father's) is exactly why she kissed Luka. His touching experience and personal situation that in some ways mirrors her own drew her to him in THAT ONE MOMENT. Just as with Powell, she will come to realize that her heart is truly with Doug.

-- Arianne (, April 28, 2000.

Arianne...once again, you are so right. That porch kiss was the most pleasant surprise I think I've ever seen on a show. I remember how ecstatic I was. I really like Luka, I think he is a perfect gentleman and a model significant other, but Carol and Luka do not have the chemistry of Doug and Carol. In fact, no couple ever has. Not that I don't enjoy their he was talking about his family in Croatia, I really wanted Carol to reach over and hug him. But hugs don't seem to happen much on ER. Too bad. But that is what he needed...a hug, NOT a kiss. She did initiate it, and it seemed almost forced, too easy, too just 'okay, I'm going to kiss you right now, without thinking, just lean over and kiss you like it's not really a kiss.' She is going to Doug in two weeks, I honestly ddin't think the kiss would happen, I really didn't. I don't enjoy watching Carol like this. I still love her, she's still my hero :) but she's not the same as she was with Doug. She "glowed" with him. ER will definetly not be the same after she leaves. The Doug and Carol relationship will be a HUGE void to fill for ER.

-- Elaine (, April 28, 2000.

OMG!!! i cannot believe someone hopes Carter will take Deraad up on his offer, and help him get through this!! laying a guilt trip on carter is not going to get him through, he needs support, not to be told he should've caught paul's mental status earlier, or it would've never happened. that is such ridiculous bullsh*t, i cannot believe any psychiatrist would say that to someone who was almost killed in a traumatic, vicious attack! the writing on this show is getting unreal, REALLY!! trelles, im glad you think Draad is such a great doctor, i think he is going to drive Carter into suicidal tendencies!!

-- Alexis (, April 28, 2000.

Elaine, you're right, she did "glow" with Doug. Carol simply ratiated and beamed with happiness when they were together. Then, suddenly, he was gone and she was lost. I honestly don't know what would've happened if Mark hadn't been there -- he's quite the caring, concerned "big brother" to her. :-) Anyhow, what I wanted to say was that now she only truly glows and beams when she's with her pride and joy (and the closest reminders she has of Doug) -- her daughters.

I also thought the kiss was just, I don't know, too mechanical. Neither one seemed very happy that they were doing that -- they just were. And I agree with you about the "One More For The Road" kiss, that was one of the most pleasant surprises of my life!! :-)

-- Arianne (, April 28, 2000.

Alexis...I admire your comments about Carter, but I don't think Dr. Draad was blaming him, he was trying to convince him that there are a million "what if's" and he shouldn't dwell on them. HOwever, I do not hope Carter goes to him. Despite the fact that I think after his situation he SHOULD need professional help, I would rather see him having these conversations with people closer to him...Mark, one of the nurses, Deb, Benton, Elizabeth, even Luka would be okay. I would like to hear their points of view too, their concerns from that day, their feelings about Lucy...Carter's feelings about Lucy!

-- Elaine (, April 28, 2000.

Honestly I had a hard time with this episode. Not sure whether I liked it or not. This is the KIND of eppy I love, where we take a break from traumas and get into some character stuff, but it felt so fragmented at times, like...Cleo/Peter. I love Jackie and relish any opprtunity to see her, but did they ever SAY they were in LA? Was there any explanation? The Carol/Luka smoochka did not surprise but I enjoyed there banter and tour of Chicago. Man we got to see a lot of the city this week. I was hoping for just a little bit more with Kerry and the little boy, and I did not quite get the elderly couple storyline. But, I think I need to re-watch it...Oh, the Mark/David scenes were great I just kept thinking how much he has deteriorated.

-- Larry B. (, April 28, 2000.

I really liked this epi. It felt like six minutes went by instead of sixty. Wonder what's in the package Carol was opening in the previews!

-- Diana (, April 28, 2000.

I too thought the episode was very well done. I know Carol and Doug are soulmates and always will be, but give the lady a break! She has been in cold storage for a year! I don't know but if my finace bolted, didn't see me when I was pregnant (unless they pull an "Oh, he really did she her" stunt), I didn't know if he would ever come back etc. and a handsome and nice Dr. was wanting to kiss me, I might have done the same thing! Also, I think it seemed like Dr. Deraad was trying to assuage his guilt about being HOURS and HOURS late for a psyche consult.

-- Rachel (, April 28, 2000.

It was Great to hear Lucy's voice. I miss her running around the ER.

-- (, April 28, 2000.

YES, It was so great to hear Lucy's voice!! I was also so surprised that they actually played out loud what Carter was hearing in his head. Usually they just let us guess, Oh is Carter's back hurting him?, is he upset about Lucy?, or is it just gas? Way to go to the writers for actually letting us listen in on Carter's thoughts. It was so spooky and awful to hear him reliving the spinal tap on paul. I got goosebumps. I'm so glad that the "accident" hasn't been dropped and that Lucy is still in Carter's thoughts. I still miss her!

-- Jenny (, April 28, 2000.

I loved Carter's reaction to when DeRaad corrected him about "the accident" - he just hesitantly said "Right" like he could barely agree - obviously feeling personally responsible. I noticed he didn't have any visible reaction to DeRaad saying that Lucy hadn't caught on to Paul being schizophrenic... but she HAD been warning Carter about him all along, and I think Carter knew that full well.

-- debbie (, April 28, 2000.

Debbie, I noticed that too about Dr. DeRaad trying to console Carter by saying that Lucy didn't catch the diagnosis either. But I'm sure that she specifically said to Carter that she suspected schizophrenia, and he brushed her off & told her to call Psych. If I'm wrong, then somebody correct me!

-- Ellen (, April 28, 2000.

Yup, as soon as Dr. Draad said that Lucy hadn't caught it either, I thought "Yes she DID!" Lucy went up to Carter and said she thought Paul was schizophrenic. Although, here are many types of schizophrenia (paranoid, disorganized, catatonic), and since there were no records of him previously, no one knew if he would be dangerous. Neither Carter or Lucy had reason to use restraints...yet. However, Malik should have sat with him. I was really expecting Carter to jump in and say something about that to Dr. Draad, like "she said something and I ignored her" or "it's not HER fault!" (much like Kerry's defense of Carter to Mark in AITF, when she *assumed* wrongly Mark was blaming him)

I also loved Carter's reaction the the correction "attack". He has this way of casually admitting to his feelings, but smiling through it, making it look like he's handling them fine. But we always see the true reaction from him for just a split second.

-- Elaine (, April 28, 2000.

elaine, i beg to seemed as if that psychiatrist was tring to point the finger, and blame someone, and he even said maybe it is partly his own fault for not coming to do the consult in a timely manner. the way he blew it off as if it was no big deal really bothered me, and by the look on carter's face, he didnt like it either. carter needs someone to help him get through this, not make it out as no big deal at all.

-- Alexis Springer (, April 28, 2000.

I thought the scene with Carter and the psychiatrist was excellent!

This scene let us know that no one other than Carter knows that Lucy had concerns about his state of mental health. It gave us a peek into the guilt that Carter feels.

DeRaad wasn't trying to blame Carter because DeRaad has no way of knowing that Carter _does_ have a certain responsiblity over what happened.

-- Rusty Priske (, April 28, 2000.

After the response I got to my comment, I went through the ep again for the Carter scenes to see if I missed something. I don't think I did.

DeRaad wasn't trying to blame anyone. It almost sounded like he was taking the stance Mark took when Kerry was trying to play the blame game the night of the attack. ("Are you blaming Carter, Mark?" "I"M not trying to blame ANYONE, are you?") There were a lot of what ifs. Even Samantha Sobriki was playing the what if game with herself. Why could no one see this coming? Carter was playing the blame game with himself and DeRaad was trying to deflect that, by saying he too, had a what if.

I am a what if champion. Ask my spouse. I suffer attacks of the what ifs. Always have. My mom (always good for a quote) used to say this to me when I would start with "If only I had done X, they Y wouldn't have happened." She would say "And if a queen had b**** she'd be king". Blunt and crude, but the point is clear- The what if game (and likewise, the blame game) is useless. Perhaps they were all to blame. (My answer: Yes they were.) But it doesn't change what happened. This is what DeRaad was trying to tell Carter. Acceptance is part of the healing process.

What we saw was not a full fledged counseling session obviously. And Carter was corralled into it. I will concede that Carter has taken a tentative first step toward recovery by admitting that he's constantly reminded of the attack and wants it to stop. DeRaad said that that would take time. He's right. What Carter is going through is normal and the recovery process can't be rushed.

Elaine, I do agree with you that Carter shouldn't necessarily be seeing DeRaad. I think it should be someone who had no part in the incident. But he should see someone. And I would like to see him talk to Kerry about it. But there is not much she can do for him because she's not trained to do so. In season 2 (I think) after Susan lost custody of baby Susie she went to counseling. We saw some brief scenes of that and they were insightful as to what was going on in Susan's head. You want to find out what's going on in someones head, watch them talk to a therapist. I would LOVE to see this sort of thing with Carter, cuz I loved it with Susan.

By the way, I miss Susan. Have I mentioned that?

On another note, I noticed something that doesn't bode well for Carter's recovery. WARNING!!! POSSIBLE SPOILER!!!

Very beginning of the scene in the kitchen with Grandmother. Carter's head is on the table. Look in the lower left corner of the screen. Blink and you miss it. Prescription bottles!! (And Coke-Jeez, no wonder he couldn't sleep!)

Sorry this is so long!

-- (, April 28, 2000.

Alexis, your comments about Dr. Draad really got me interested into why you thought that, so I watched it again, and I can definetly see now what you're thinking. Carter calls it an accident, and Draad goes on about how it was no accident, how it was a brutal attack without warning, and it is easier to call an accident. Then Carter seems to feel guilty and says, "that's the thing..." and goes on about the spinal tap and how he should have noticed something was wrong. Then Draad says "so should have Lucy"...and that does sound accusatory. I really expected Carter to say, "but she did catch something..." However, I still do not think that we were supposed to get the impression that he was blaming anyone...he was trying to show Carter that blaming won't help, but it *was* worded badly.

trelles...I also thought it was odd that there was a coke by him...hello, he's a doctor, he knows caffeine will never help him fall asleep. I did not notice the perscription bottles, so thanks for pointing them out. I wonder.......however, it seems odd that if this means something, it would be *so* unnoticable, subtle.

-- Elaine (, April 28, 2000.

What I think about DeRaad is he wants to help Carter. That was obvious. But I don't like how he was going about it. Whether or not he, Carter or Lucy were to blame, that should not be the main thing to keep Carter for blaming himself. "Yeah, it may have been your fault, but don't feel too bad cuz I screwed up too!" I was so glad that we got to see some of what Carter was going through though.

As for Carol and Luka, you know, whatever. I thought their whole little adventure was fun. We had to see that coming.

-- Joanne (, April 29, 2000.

Yes. Lucy thought Paul was suffering from Skitzphrenia. She told Carter. He agreed that Psych should come down. What more could Carter do. Neither Carter or Lucy are qualified to diagnose this ailment. It was psych job to evaluate and decide whether he has some sort of mental problems. If it had been Carter who had initially suspected Pauls problem, He would have still done the same thing that Lucy did. He would have called Psch down. Instead he agreed with Lucy and said call psych. Neither Lucy or Carter thought the guy was an danger to anyone so no restarints. Carter did later on tell Lucy to call Psych again and have Malik watch him. Carter told her to go treat other patients. She did not. Also Mark saw this Paul's outburst with his friend. As the senior attending on duty why didn't he check on this patient and see whether restraints were necessary. He saw the incident Carter didn't. I think all of them can play the What if game. I wasn't impressed with this Dr. Deraad either. I hope Carter does get help, but not with him. I would also like to see him confide with his friends/colleagues such as Kerry. I think Carter is not quite ready to really talk to anyone . However, I think in a few weeks when Carter hits rock bottom , he will be ready.

-- Brenda (, April 29, 2000.

I have to admit that Dr. D's "what if" comments were confusing to me. I've attended a twelve-step program and one of the first things you hear is to stop asking what if's because they don't help at all. I can see that he was trying to get Carter to understand that a lot of things could have changed the outcome but they didn't happen. But I don't think he ever came out and said that literally, not to my liking at least. I will add that there are places where the "what if" game works, like for writers. Might be a good exercise for ER's! :)

-- Diana (, April 29, 2000.

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