As more and more people "think out of the box", does a new box form?Do we then have to think out of this new box? Can we ever truly escape forming new boxes? And, most importantly, is there REALLY a box?

What do you think??

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), April 26, 2000

Answers

There once was a man who made boxes

To package bagels and loxes

He said "I admit

I'm a bit of a shit

I'd rather knock-up some foxes"

-- (out@thebox.factory), April 27, 2000.

I never fit into one of them boxes, did I miss something?

I never fit the profile, never followed the company line, never found a nitch to fit into, I was the octogonal cog that did not fit the square hole.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), April 27, 2000.

FS,

As to your parabox,

If the stock market crashes, people will start saying "What we have to do is get our rear ends back inside the box and start making money".

Remember, you heard it here first.

Or not,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 27, 2000.

For some people there IS a box. They need The Box and willingly climb into it. It gives structure and definition to their lives because - for whatever reason - they never bothered to define themselves. (Hey, formulating real live opinions is hard work, doncha' know!) We often refer to this breed as "Sheeple" and they're quite comfortable with The Party Line, thank you very much.

Then there are a bunch of us who were never in The Box to begin with and that distinguishes "us" from "them".

Do those NOT in The Box then create a new Box by virtue of their commonality? Not necessarily - because they are individualistic by nature and that in and of itself creates a uniqueness that separates them...because they are ever-evolving and The Box is always a Work In Progress, ever-expanding so the walls never touch.

So the answer to "Is there really a box?" is Yes AND No. (That damned duality is everywhere, I swear! Why, it's takin' over everything! Then again, I admit to being under a heavy Libran influence...;-)

-- LunaC (LunaC@LunaC.com), April 27, 2000.

There are many fine things to do with a box. Some of the better ones come with chocolate candies - even with nuts occasionally. At work we have specialist to carry boxes, open boxes, challenge our paradiems about our bxes and occasionally even stand on one our two to pontificate from. They are a most useful construct. Sort of womb-ish or cavish...

At home we still have our own collection of fine boxes. They help us move, hide our stuff, hide us, hold our legs when we sit and in general support our needs in every way. Heck we even sleep in big old boxes with windows and stuff..

Ah yes - the modern human box - I development since we first scrawled pictures on our walls about a gazilion years ago and still going strong.

Yep - a very useful little thing these boxes..

-- Ditto (just.me@wherever.I.be), April 27, 2000.

This bloke strolls over to the front-bar and plonks a cardbox box down beside the ashtray, lights an Escort red and orders a beer.

"What's that you're carrying?" asks the barman.

The bloke looks glum and says, "A box."

"Yeah, right." The barman reckons he's got a real speech therapist here, so continues, "Doesn't matter I suppose."

"Not anymore, not now," sighs the box-man, opening the lid. "Here have a squizzy."

"Geez, it's a small piano player playing on a tiny piano," gasps the astonished barman. "Where d'ya score this then, heh?"

"Over by the rocks on the shore. This little bloke plays Rhapsodies in Blue. Came out of a bottle when I made my wish."

"Dinkum? Can I have a wish as well?"

"Sure." He hands over a lamp, and with a rubbity-rub up swirls a genie.

"I want a million bucks." And 'poof' the front-bar is chocker-block full of ducks, quacking and soiling on the tables.

"Hey," screams the barman "Hey! I didn't wish for no friggin' ducks! Your genie's bloody crook!"

"Yes. I didn't wish for a 12 inch pianist either."

-- Pieter (zaadz@icisp.net.au), April 27, 2000.

When I think of the "box" I think of the movie "Midnight Express", the scene where the prisoners are shown walking around in a circle, always in the same direction, and then the main character decides to circle in the opposite direction; all his fellow inmates get very, very uneasy.

Most people need a structure ready made for them; in most countries, even if they have been lucky enough to get an education, that education was about the box. Critical thinking and innovation are not the rule at most educational facilities. Life, for most, becomes a connect-the-dots or paint by numbers. I would posit here that that is probably for the best-Too much innovation, and chaos would rule. In order to get by as a society, we have to agree to many elements of the "box"-part of the box is our system of law-without it, our society does not function-part of the box is what allows everyone to agree that a red light means stop and a green light means go.

I agree with Luna; there is both a box and not a box. I was always different, and to this day I cannot figure out how I grew up in the family which raised me-I am so radically different from any of them. My life experiences have been much more varied than any of my family- I have been outside the box on many issues-BUT, you can find me safely inside the box on many other issues-mostly so I can feel safe.

What I was thinking about when I first posted this question was the rise of E-commerce. The first companies to get in on the internet were the out-of-the-box thinkers-Amazon.com comes to mind(let's not talk about their business model, though!). By now, so many have jumped on the bandwagon of E-Commerce that the out-of-the-box experience of soliciting business on the internet has become the box. Now we have reports and predictions that many E-retailers will not survive the next two years. What passed for innovation now can lead to stasis.

Those who are to be successful in the future will be those who can find the totally new business model, OR can apply a business model to a new industry. There is now a website where businesses can put up legal work for auction-Liberty Mutual insurance put overflow personal injury defense work out for bid. Will this be successful? I am not sure, but it is sure something entirely new in the legal industry.

To the comedians:

Thanks for the humor. Every thread like this needs some!

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), April 27, 2000.

FutureShock,
I was under the impression that the metaphor of "the box" applies not to those conventions that we accept because they're sensible (such as the meaning of traffic signals), but rather to those we accept because of conditioning. To be "in the box" is for one's thinking to operate strictly within the prevailing paradigm, i.e., unconditionally rejecting anything outside of that model.

"Out of the box" thinking can be viewed as simply being open minded. But "paradigm" sells a lot more books and videos. 8^)

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), April 27, 2000.

David:

You are right. I am metaphor-impaired this morning. I DO mean within paradigm thinking!

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), April 27, 2000.

FutureShock wrote:

SNIPMost people need a structure ready made for them; in most countries, even if they have been lucky enough to get an education, that education was about the box. Critical thinking and innovation are not the rule at most educational facilities. Life, for most, becomes a connect-the-dots or paint by numbers. I would posit here that that is probably for the best-Too much innovation, and chaos would rule. In order to get by as a society, we have to agree to many elements of the "box"-part of the box is our system of law-without it, our society does not function-part of the box is what allows everyone to agree that a red light means stop and a green light means go.

You (and LunaC) have such an amazing way with words. And I think you've hit the nail on the proverbial head of "what's wrong with education these days". Thinking back to my own basic education, I realize we were never really encouraged to be creative or innovative in solving problems. We were given a set of "rules" and if one deviated from those rules, you got the answer wrong (with the ridiculous explanation that you came to the right conclusion for the wrong reasons!). One's alternative path to the so-called "right answer" was virtually discounted; it was stifling for many bright kids.

I agree with Luna; there is both a box and not a box. I was always different, and to this day I cannot figure out how I grew up in the family which raised me-I am so radically different from any of them. My life experiences have been much more varied than any of my family- I have been outside the box on many issues-BUT, you can find me safely inside the box on many other issues-mostly so I can feel safe.

Same here. I look at my family and realize how completely different, almost opposite, I am from them. As to being "in the box" in certain situations for safety reasons, I think that's the way it is for many people (myself included). It's a bit frightening to be a pioneer; one opens oneself up to ridicule and criticism, etc., and despite all the self-help and self-esteem and "empowerment" of late, the human ego is still more or less frail.

What I was thinking about when I first posted this question was the rise of E-commerce. ..... By now, so many have jumped on the bandwagon of E-Commerce that the out-of-the-box experience of soliciting business on the internet has become the box. ..... What passed for innovation now can lead to stasis. ..... Those who are to be successful in the future will be those who can find the totally new business model, OR can apply a business model to a new industry. .....

And "stasis" seems to happen much more quickly than it used to. I sometimes wonder if we're going to reach a point of impasse. I have such negative feelings when I hear the phrase "there's nothing left to discover". I can't or I refuse to believe that's true.

I've read many of your posts and you always make me think about things. Thanks for your insights.

David L wrote:

I was under the impression that the metaphor of "the box" applies not to those conventions that we accept because they're sensible (such as the meaning of traffic signals), but rather to those we accept because of conditioning. To be "in the box" is for one's thinking to operate strictly within the prevailing paradigm, i.e., unconditionally rejecting anything outside of that model.

"Out of the box" thinking can be viewed as simply being open minded. But "paradigm" sells a lot more books and videos. 8^)

Excellent point about the word "paradigm". In my former company, senior management was always spouting "paradigm" this and "out of the box" that. Yet when it came down to it, those of us who really did think "out of the box" were looked upon as somewhat looney (whether or not it was true is irrelevant [g]) and our ideas were more or less dismissed. Seems that the "same old, same old" was more welcome than anything perceived as "new" (a "comfort zone", perhaps?). Couldn't help but wonder if it was the same in much of Corporate America.

Going back to what FutureShock said about "...too much innovation, and chaos will rule", we now seem to be seeing a proliferation of "catch-up" and that can open up whole new areas of problems along with the successes (especially where e-commerce is concerned).

-- Patricia (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), April 27, 2000.

Patricia:

Thanks for the kind words. I just love to ask these kind of questions as I do not get the chance in the circle of people in my life to exercise my brain muscles.

This forum, and people like Brian, Luna, Debra, etc gives me that opportunity, and for that I am grateful.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), April 27, 2000.