My husband, Vaughn, and I were talking today about all the things we do to make us self-sufficient: Garden (enough to supply 9-12 months of veggies), fruit trees (4 semi-dwarf, second year), small strawberry patch, medicinal herb garden, fresh farm eggs from a friend (as much as we need), bake bread once a week (2 loaves for breakfasts), and home school.

We live in a very small town on two lots. We don't have room for livestock. Space is somewhat limited. Hope to put in asparagus, rhubarb and blackberries next year when we get the yard fenced.

Question: What more could we do? We can't think of anything else? Do you have any ideas?

-- Mrs. Vaughn (vdcjm5@juno.com), April 24, 2000

Answers

Well, you could certainly raise rabbits if you'll be able to eat them. You might be able to get away with chickens. Depends on the neighbors. Perhaps you know someone in the country who has room for some livestock. If you would do some or all of the work, and split the bills, you could split the carcasses. You might also be able to trade some of your home baked bread for meat. Or an arrangement involving dairy animals so you can get milk.

I'd suggest some nut trees if you have any room. Generally a fairly long time before you'll get any nuts, but you will, plus you'll eventually have some nice lumber trees.

Sounds like you're doing a darn good job already! Gerbil

-- Gerbil (ima_gerbil@hotmail.com), April 24, 2000.

Mrs. Vaughn,

Gerbil's advice is very good. I instantly thought of rabbits as they are within any zoning laws. My dad raised them when I was a small child. Chickens if you can have them are an obvious second. We raised them in Miami when we were graduate students.

Kim

-- kim (fleece@eritter.net), April 24, 2000.

You didn't say how you preserve your fruit and vegetables, but practice either canning or drying to avoid using electricity. On weekends, especially the longer ones, or on vacation time, turn off your electricity completely. It's the only way to really know what it's like. Dig a fire pit and use a grate or whatever you have to practice open fire cooking. I use my cast iron outdoors and have learned to even bake cakes over coals in a dutch oven. Usually you can get away with hens in the city. Practice using a camping shower and set up a gravity feed waterer to your garden from your dish water and laundry run off. I could go on, but I'll just say again, even a few days of shutting off water and electricity, and you'll be amazed at how resourceful you become. Nothing makes being without refrigeration sink in faster than opening a #10 can of those stockpiled cans that we're so proud of, using 1/4 of it and having no way to store the rest.LOL! Teaches you real quick to store the 1 meal size. Learn to make soap and candles. Good Luck.

-- Jill Faerber (lance1_86404@yahoo.com), April 25, 2000.

Sometimes two or three ducks are more acceptable in a town setting than chickens, as they are quieter -- also, khaki campbells and runner ducks can be better layers -- and when we had both ducks and chickens, we found duck eggs were just as good as chicken eggs. They can both be kept in "chicken" tractors, which will keep them under control. Rabbits could actually be kept in your basement, with worm beds underneath to catch the droppings. For nuts on a small lot, hazelnuts would be good if they'll grow in your area (we really *should* be putting our state with our names), or use one of the larger nuts as a shade tree. How do you heat your house and hot water? You might want to check out possibilities for using the sun for part of that, also for drying clothes when possible. (You know, a good old-fashioned solar clothesdryer! :-) Raspberries and grape vines don't take up much room, also kiwis if they grow where you are. A couple of beehives could be kept, if you are at all interested in that. People even keep bees in city apartments, by connecting the hive entrance to the outdoors with a tube. They could also be kept in the "upstairs" of a garage with the same arrangement. (Our ideal, after many losses to bears, would be to have the hives in the upstairs of the barn.) And have you looked at the thread on "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without"? And there are a number of web sites that deal with frugal living. Let us know what you decide to add!!

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), April 25, 2000.

You could make lip balm, bath crystals or natural cosmetics. If you have room in your garden you can plant broom corn and make a broom. Can you sew crochet or knit, if your good enough at these you can make money. And just for fun, grow a sunflower house, the kids can play in it and you can relax or have a friend over for tea.

-- Cindy(IN) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), April 25, 2000.

Make a list of everything you pay someone else for. Try to figure out how to supply each of those items yourself, or to at least reduce your use of items you have been paying for. No one has mentioned keeping pigeons- a dovecote is often acceptable where chickens are not. Rabbits are quiet and would add to the fertility of your garden. If you don't want to eat them, get angoras for the fiber and learn to spin.( Angoras are more work than regular rabbits and spinning straight angora is more difficult than wool. But it's an option.)Best of luck to you, sounds like a fun project.

-- Peg (NW WI) (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), April 25, 2000.

In the book "The Have More Plan" instructions are given to raise broiler-fryer chickens in a stacked pen that can be kept in a garage, so if you are in an area where you could get away with that, they would only be in there about 8 weeks for each batch, as I recall, and then you butcher the oldest ones, while the younger ones move up a tray. Young ones wouldn't be that noisy, as they wouldn't be laying or crowing, so even if zoning doesn't allow it, you might be able to get away with raising them that way. I just can't bring myself to butcher them when they are smaller like that. Guess I will have to toughen up! Jan

-- Jan B (Janice12@aol.com), April 25, 2000.

We have raised chickens (for eggs only) on a city lot several times when we were at the whim of our employer (the military -but before the present shame). No roosters, a couple of hens - the neighbors thought they were "cute" - especially if they got a couple of eggs every week! Rabbbits are great too. No noise, No odor if you are at all attentive, productive, tasty. DO NOT name anybody but Dad & the 2 or 3 MOMS! When you want the rhubarb, let me know. I have 14 plants, many of which need to be divided next year. I'll send you some. (Same for anybody else, first come, first served - I'll have at least 8. Too late for this year!) I also have some horseradish. And the beat goes on! I'll bet if you asked, there are a bunch of us who can provide free (if you pay the postage) things like rhubarb and horseradish. Whaddaya think folks? Brad, the much too verbose! But, hey, Good Luck!

-- Brad (homefixer@mix-net.net), April 25, 2000.

We have children and they nixed the bunny idea. They couldn't stand the thought of killing a furry little creature. I even suggested we could keep 2 does and a buck as pets and just get rid of the others. "KILL THE BABIES!" Bad idea. The kids are so soft - oh, well.

Thanks for the other ideas. We'll consider them and let you know.

-- Vaughn (vdcjm5@juno.com), April 25, 2000.