I disagree with most of you re Elian. I think that Elian should have been put on the first plane for Cuba after he came out of the hospital. There has to be some reason why his father had custody and not the mother. And if you want to talk brain washing, what about all the media coverage, the crowds standing outside his door, all the conversations going on that he should never have heard? Furthermore, they bought the kid everything but a pony. He was getting CONSTANT attention and eating it up, as would any six year old. All of that is brainwashing too. His 'trauma' is going to be when he is treated like an ordinary child. How many hungry children could have been fed, even in our own country, with the millions spent on Elian's situation? How about the Haitian children that wash ashore on our beaches? No one is crying out in their behalf. They are shipped back on the first boat. And where is Castro re Horta? The little girl left behind by another woman on Elian's raft? I don't see Castro wanting to ship that motherless girl off to Florida to be with her mother. Why isn't the Cuban community up in arms over this? The Miami family said repeatedly that "they will have to take Elian by force". So thats what was done. NOW, the family is in Washington wanting to see Elian and "negotiate". Why didn't they go to Washington when the Gov't asked them too? Why didn't they negotiate then? If they were REALLY concerned with Elian's psyche, they would have kept everything low key and away from the child. They played Elian like a puppet for all he was worth. I am not saying that I want to see Elian in Cuba. But that is his father's decision and not ours to make. What if your kid washed up on the shores of another country and they refused to give him back? Oh, sure.....I know....THATS different!! Taz

-- Taz (Tassie123@aol.com), April 23, 2000

Answers

Taz, I couldn't agree with you more!

Now, it was reported last week on FOX News, Los Angeles, that the Gonzalez family in Miami has signed an agreement with CBS for the movie rights for the Elian story.

With the present turn of events, the boy back in the custody of his father, where he belongs, does this mean their money may not be forthcoming?

Oh yes, they're so concerned about the boy. I feel they're more concerned about their new found meal ticket being lost. Can CBS go ahead with this deal without the father's concent. By the way, CNN mentioned this movie deal this morning also.

Just follow the money trail.

-- Richard (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), April 23, 2000.

They signed a deal for a movie? I am already annoyed with these asses who would keep a child from his father. This would be the straw braking the camel's back. They are F****** mercaneries, and I DO think they are in it for self-interest first.

I AM sorry to this this, but their are people who will do anything and everything not to earn an honest living-to exploit situations for their own gain. It is unfortunate that there are people like this with certain backgrounds who make a living off fraudulent personal injury cases. I see these idiots in Miami as no different.

Do we have anything else to talk about on this board? I guess I will have to start another philosophical post.

-- FutureShock (Gray@matter.think), April 23, 2000.

Good input, Taz.

Now I have TWO of the three survivors..Elian and Horta. What happened to the third? Horta has a MOTHER in Florida?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 23, 2000.

From the Miami Herald online (English version) poll...

Do you think the goverment's raid on the Gonzalez's Miami home was handled properly?

Yes: 59%

No: 40%

Undecided: 0%

Total votes: 42923

-- CD (costavike@hotmail.com), April 23, 2000.

I agree with you, Taz,

Regardless of the conditions in his home country, the boy should be with his father. Others don't have the right to decide where the boy should be.

This was a custody case that should have been out of the public eye, as so many others are. Cuban-Americans in Miami used the boy as a rallying cry for their causes- If they truly cared about his welfare, they never would have exposed him to the media circus, that they were instrumental in creating.

Unfortunately, their are no winners here. Everyone comes out looking bad.

-- CJS (cjs@noemail.com), April 23, 2000.

Taz,

I dissagre with what you said...

about dissagreeing with most of us re: Elian. From what I have read here in the past two days I'd say you agree with a lot of us.

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), April 23, 2000.

I FINALLY have closure. I found the third survivor: Fernandez....boyfriend of Horta. Horta's 5-year old died during the journey, BTW.

Choosing another Destiny

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 23, 2000.

What if your kid washed up on the shores of another country and they refused to give him back? Oh, sure.....I know....THATS different!!

Agree, Taz. And can you imagine the terrible precedent it would set for custody cases, if the gov. had caved in and "permitted" Elian to stay ...?

Many custody battles are fought through international borders- when one U.S. parent flees with the child to another country. It has been a hard-won battle to be able to establish custody in these cases.

-- Debbie (dbspence@usa.net), April 23, 2000.

Taz:

Based on the limited information that I picked-up from airport moniters, etc, I arrived at a conclusion similar to yours. But this morning I heard Tom DeLay speak on the matter. He totally disagreed with everything that you said.

Now I know that you are correct. It has been my experience that you can't lose betting against DeLay. It makes voting choices easy.

Best wishes,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), April 23, 2000.

The boy should be with his father.

~*~

-- (LadyLogic@...), April 23, 2000.

Taz, I agree with you 100%. He should never have been allowed to go to the home of the relatives. Brain washing has been the families main agenda. Did anyone hear that ignorant Hannity the other night on Fox say, "You mean after seeing all the opulance and luxury here in the U. S. the father still wants to go back to Cuba?" As if the only thing in life that matter is things.

Z1X, I agree with you about Tom Delay. Watch what he says or does and do the opposite.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), April 23, 2000.

Anita....reread the article you posted. The little girl, named Horta, was put ashore in Cuba. Elian came on the raft. The little girl is in Cuba and the mother is in Florida.

-- Taz (Tassie123@aol.com), April 23, 2000.

I understand the confusion now, Taz. It seems Horta is their LAST name.

Mom makes it to Florida, but daughter wants to turn back for lack of soda

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 23, 2000.

Taz, I heartily agree with you and am grateful to see so many reasonable posts. Would you ever have believed that this many people would agree with you? There's hope for the world yet.

-- Pat (--@still.here), April 24, 2000.

Send all the spics packing.

-- Manny (No@dip.com), April 24, 2000.

Wow. Just when I thought I was largely alone in my thinking... I usually post at the other board (you know the name), but here lately, it is very hard to post a differing view without being attacked or called a troll...I'm beginning to see the points made by folks here when the board was split...

I have differing views about Y2K, but I agree with Taz 100% on the Elian story. The INS erred from the very beginning when they allowed that child to stay with the relatives in Miami; they should have known better....they had to know it was going to turn into something like this...

While I didn't like the use of guns to go into the house (I think that the INS could have handled the seizure much better than that), the Miami relatives left the INS with no other options...

It's funny too how very conservative-thinking people who believed in the family aspects of this story at first (that the father should have the child) have now lumped this into another Waco/Ruby Ridge situation.

It's hard to pull off something sinister with that many cameras rolling...Unless of course the video and pictures have been doctored...

-- Mello1 (Mello1@ix.netcom.com), April 24, 2000.

Welcome, Mello,

That many cameras can't be doctored.

-- (Conspiracies @suck.totally), April 24, 2000.

Anita, from your first link article this quote:

"

- WORLD

Migrants a means to money

By MARK FINEMAN in Cardenas, Cuba

Last year, Nivaldo Fernandez Ferran walked away from his life: a decade-long marriage, a new house, a coveted job at a five-star resort and solid roots in Cuba's ruling Communist Party.

So did his girlfriend, 22-year-old Arianne Horta-Alfonso, who joined the 33-year-old Fernandez on his journey across the Florida Straits on November 21.

Four days later, the couple were plucked from a Russian truck tyre inner tube off the coast of Key Biscayne, Florida. Shivering and near shock, they told police they had paid $US2,000 ($3,000) to join a smuggler of human cargo, his family and friends on a five-metre aluminium boat in Cardenas, their home town.

When the boat was swamped, the passengers' only protection was the three inner tubes towed behind it. The second inner tube was found the same day, 30 kilometres to the north, with Elian Gonzalez, now aged six, clinging to it and with the drowned body of 60-year-old Merida Loreto Barrios tethered behind it.

The third inner tube was never found. Nor were the bodies of the alleged smuggler, Lazaro Munero, or his brother, Jikary, or Lazaro's girlfriend, Elizabet Broton Gonzalez.

Elizabet is Elian's mother, whose disappearance and presumed death touched off an international custody battle over the boy between his father in Cuba and his paternal great-uncle in the United States.

These are among the few known facts and lingering mysteries of an illegal voyage that investigators say typifies what has taken thousands of illegal Cuban migrants to the US in the past two years and claimed more than 60 Cuban lives last year alone.

Reconstruction of the voyage reveals a lucrative smuggling trade rather than any flight from communism for freedom in the US, and Border Patrol agents say the smugglers are operating with near impunity, running speedboats and cabin cruisers across the straits and charging Cubans up to $US8,000 each to be dropped within swimming distance of the Florida coast.

Fernandez and Horta told police that the two males who built the boat and charged them $2,000 were among those on board. These were Lazaro Munero and his father, Rafael, who had lived in the US but returned to Cardenas to get the rest of their family out.

Lazaro Munero's girlfriend, Elizabet Broton Gonzalez, had a good job at a resort in Varadero, but she agreed to join Munero on his journey north and brought along Elian and her best friend, Lilka Guillermo.

The entire Rodriguez clan - Orlando's mother, father, two brothers and a sister-in-law - joined Munero's voyage.

US investigators say Nivaldo Fernandez and Arianne Horta's role was to finance the journey, at a tidy profit for the Muneros.

On the face of it, Fernandez had little reason to leave. He and his wife had just bought a new home, relatives say. But Fernandez suddenly left three weeks before his 10th wedding anniversary party with his girlfriend, Horta, and her five-year-old Estefani.

Soon after they left Cuba, the boat's engine broke down. The 13 adults decided that the two five-year-olds should be paddled to shore. Horta brought Estefani to her mother's home, but Elizabet kept Elian on board."

-- Ann A. Lyze (@ .), April 24, 2000.

Sorry, I meant to quote only the last paragraph, but somehow I got the whole thing on cut/paste.

"Soon after they left Cuba, the boat's engine broke down. The 13 adults decided that the two five-year-olds should be paddled to shore. Horta brought Estefani to her mother's home, but Elizabet kept Elian on board."

-- Ann A. Lyze (@ .), April 24, 2000.