Elbow Im going to step away from the rhymes for a minute and address some of the issues that have been raised. Please understand that your insistence that I am a bigot has no value to me what so ever. I dont know you and I find it hard to be offended by non-entities here in cyber space. Just as you, Im sure, are not upset when I refer to you as a delusional moron and uneducated fool. I decided a few days ago to go the limerick route for a variety of reasons, foremost being the challenge associated with crafting something clever that may relate to the subject of the thread. IMHO of course.

As pertains to your charge of bigotry I plead guilty. The fact is that we are all bigoted about something or somebodys. Anyone who claims otherwise is either lying to you or deceiving themselves. Bigotry is part of our human experience and we all share that trait. We are bigoted against others who are fat, ugly, poor, or just drive a junker car. We are bigoted against those of a different color, race, sex, or just live in a different neighborhood. I will admit to being bigoted against homosexuals, IRS agents, disrespectful ethnic groups and stupid fucking posters on this forum.

Also, I am extremely bigoted against immigrants that come to this country and ignore our laws and demand that we acquiesce to their heated and passionate demands. When I see a group like the Miami based Cubans screaming on TV how ashamed they are of America and then burning our flag and stomping it on the ground, my blood boils. When I see those over- the-top Cubans hitting Miami Police officers with baseball bats I wish for the Federal agents to go back and waste all of those fuckers. Are you getting the picture Elbow?

Now let me give you my take on this whole Elian situation. Years ago, our government told the Cuban people that to set foot on American soil was to be allowed to stay. This is a Carte invitation extended to no other peoples of any country. This was our way of recovering from the Bay of Pigs disaster and pulling on Castros beard. Then Castro said fine, Ive got hundreds of thousands of scum you are welcome to and Ill send them over post haste on the Muriel fleet. The Cuban community in this country hates Castro with such a passion that they would do anything to get back at him, anything. They dont give a flying fuck about this Elian kid. What kind of life do you think this kid would have without all of this publicity? Think he would be embraced by these assholes? Think his drunken Great Uncle or crack whore Aunt would give him a good life? Think the whole Cuban community would fawn over his every move? I think you know the answer to those questions so lets move on.

Many people in this country hate our government with the same passion that the Cubans hate Castro. As a result there is nothing our government does that meets the approval of these folks. To a certain extent I am one of them. I get sick when I see Reno and Messier(SP?) standing side by side on TV. This is what our leaders have become? What a joke and lets throw Clinton in there for sure. There is nothing the government could have done that many of you would have sanctioned, just on GP.

In conclusion, the kid is where he belongs, with his Father. If he goes back to Cuba so what. You think that Elian will have a tough life in Cuba? If you do then you are truly an idiot and should never be taken seriously. This kid will become the biggest hero in Cuba (next to Fidel of course) and will live the life of a protected celebrity. Castro will give us a day by day photomontage of his wonderful life. In the meantime, those law-breaking Cubans in Miami need to have their ass kicked and reminded that they have been granted the biggest honor in their lives to live here in America. Should they continue to be ashamed to live here then lets help them GET THE FUCK OUT!!!

Did I make myself clear,

With these many words here.

Its hard to be short,

And still craft a retort,

But with limericks Ill post with no fear!

-- Ra (tion@l.1), April 22, 2000

Answers

Ra,

I presume that you feel the same way about our uninvited visitors from south of the border. Am I correct?

-- Ex Cal Guy (xcal@nomore.illegals), April 22, 2000.

(Ir)rational one, interesting post, no signs of intelligent life there! Kinda makes me wish the Indians had the same "attitude" when they saw YOUR ancestors crawl up on the shores....

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 23, 2000.

Well now guy I live close to TJ,

So to you I would just like to say.

That your guess is correct,

And my words should project,

Send them back to the border today!

-- Ra (tion@l.1), April 23, 2000.

My good ancestors did have a fight,

And to be here it took all their might.

For to build this great nation,

Took much dedication,

Not just sneaking across in the night!

-- Ra (tion@l.1), April 23, 2000.

(yawn) whatever!

-- Francois (Ra!Ra!@eqypt.com), April 23, 2000.

...foremost being the challenge associated with crafting something clever.

On this point, you utterly fail.

-- (BAaaad@limericks.suck), April 23, 2000.

Baaad or Ra,

Do either of you remember the formula for Haiku? Would be an interesting offshoot of limericks.

Limericks for fun can be pleasing

Like for little boys fun is girl-teasing

I'd like some Haiku

Prob'ly so'd you

We don't always need rhyme, just reason

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 23, 2000.

Ra is so funny..

He isn't even punny...

But a putz he is for sure...

He trys to show wit..

But he's really a twit...

As a person he really is crummy :-)

-- Netghost (ng@no.yr), April 23, 2000.

I'll join you on this one Ra! It's so goddam politically incorrect to even have a smither of thought pertaining to racism or anything on the subject that most people can't even discuss it much less admit to it. Like you say everybody is a racist in some way. It just takes big NUTs to admit it. Hell I live in Indian country and I get so fucking tired of them complaining about the injustice done to the tribes 120 years ago. There housing is supplied and and maintained for them and they drive around in 4X4s and kill game year around with 7mms. They should thank the U.S. for winning that war because if they didn't World War 2 would have ended in 7 days.

-- Boswell (fundown@the.farm), April 23, 2000.

Frank, I'll answer you...

Five sylables, seven, five...

Go now, and Haiku.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), April 23, 2000.

To the mentally disturbed little boy who calls himself Ra:

I "got the picture" of you long before you posted your self-expose. What is amazing is your lack of awareness of what you've revealed about yourself. Apparently the difference between bias and bigotry is too subtle for what passes for your brain. Beyond that I need to add nothing. Your own warped words say it all. Get some professional help.

-- LBO Grise (LBO Grise@aol.com), April 23, 2000.

Oh Frank can you guess,

What Im writing under stress.

Its not all that hard,

For a smart guy like you pard,

Tell me the name, its a test.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), April 23, 2000.

Grease

I forgot to mention that I am also bigoted towards those who would pretend to have some degree of intelligence when in fact are ignorant to the bone. I could be somewhat biased but you seem to unquestionably qualify as such a person. Ive included the following, which should up your IQ into the high 70s. Oh, and have a nice Easter asshole.

BIAS: an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially: a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment

BIGOT: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

-- Ra (tion@l.1), April 23, 2000.

RA, although we haven't always agreed on issues, I think you are a decent person, and your post was right on target about the Miami-Cubans.

They are a bunch of criminals and should be locked up. When they burn the flag of the country that took them in, when they bash police officers and cause all the mess they've caused, after all the time and effort that has been taken to placate them, when they get up on TV and scream they are ashamed to be Americans, they By Gawwd, whey the hell don't they leave here. That boy belongs with his father.

Ra, ignore that mental midget Grease. He has less intelligence than a rock.

BTW, I love your limericks!!!

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), April 23, 2000.

Gilda my dear that is just what I need,

Your nice words to me are an honor indeed.

On this most special day,

I would just like to say,

This Easter is special with Elian freed!

-- Ra (tion@l.1), April 23, 2000.

gilda -

I'm surprised at you. All Miami Cubans should be locked up? I would suspect that you know that is very unfair.

I have no doubt there are many good Cuban-Americans who understand the meaning of living in a free country much better than alot of the posters on this board recently.

-- Debra (lookand@see.com), April 23, 2000.

Please Gilda dont pay her no mind,

The truth she is never to find.

This Debra is dense,

Her words are so tense,

She and Elbow are two of a kind!

-- Ra (tion@l.1), April 23, 2000.

Is your name gilda?

-- Debra (??@??.com), April 23, 2000.

Debra. this is about the third post that you criticized me about judging all Cuban-Americans. You know damn well which Cuban-Americans I meant. I will say it for the third time and the last time, then maybe you won't feel the need to play Mother Superior, constantly reminding me that I have not said LITTLE HAVANA CUBAN-AMERICANS!

File this in your data bank, when I say, Cuban-Americans, I mean LITTLE HAVANA CUBAN-AMERICANS. Got IT????? Now please take your sharp stick and go poke someone else.

Thanks RA, Debra has taken me on as her latest crusade to correct my politically incorrect language.

How dare MaresAssLaysis make demands of anyone after the way she and her family have behaved. My husband is a first generation American, and he is one of the biggest defenders of the U. S. that you ever met. His parents had to pass all kinds of tests just to get in the U. S.-- no special perks for them, despite the fact that they were both highly skilled, intelligent people.

By the way, I admire you for admitting your biases. Most, including me, aren't that honest. Although I have no bias against homosexuals, I despise the IRS, can't stand Rush Limbaugh, or Drudge, am very biased against roadside memorials (grin), but love limericks, and I too think some of the posters on this forum are jerks, just as they think and say that I'm even worse. I also think Cuban-Americans should leave this country if they think it's so damn bad. I'm not a flag waver, but when people have made their home here from a repressive dictator, and then accuse Clinton, Reno, and the government of being like Castro, and burning the flag, I say get the hell out of here.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), April 23, 2000.

Alright this is the third one now. Mother Superior? LOL

Sorry, I didn't realize you were only judging "LITTLE HAVANA CUBAN- AMERICANS!"

-- Debra (easytobe@hard.com), April 23, 2000.

gilda,
I am mystified at how you can make highly inflammatory statements, and yet blame other people for being provoked by those same statements.

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), April 23, 2000.

Deb, I have heard that the other Cuban-Americans have distanced themselves from the Little Havana Cubans. In fact I saw some of them on TV, and they were unhappy with the Cuban-Americans for a number of reasons. I can certainly understand why. The Little Havana Cubans have banned entertainment from Cuba, which has made many of them unhappy, among other things.

Now Deb, I think we have that straightened out. Truce, OK??? But if you still have your sharp stick, I really need to lose 10 to 15 pounds. If you could just jab me about my weight, I would appreciate it.

Netghost, Elbo grise, Fact Fouler, and others with forked tongues and lofty pretensions, just a word of defense for RA, not that he needs my defense, but here's what makes him likeable and enjoyable to be with on a forum. On one thread in particular (roadside shrines) and another in general (homosexuals) he and I disagreed vociferously. We had quite a grand old set-to! But once we ended that battle of words it was over. He didn't continue to gouge me on every other thread no matter what the topic. He did not accuse me of being a fanatic, or obsessed, nor was he always attacking after these topics were posted and ended. He did not hold a grudge and tell me what an "unhappy person" I must be because I was so against road shrines or so accepting of homosexuals. He did not tell me that I must have had something happen in my childhood to make me such a "bitter" person. He Did Not Hold a Grudge and keep on slamming me everytime I posted. He has proved that he knows a lot more about being an adult than some of you who were so quick to label him "mentally disturbed little boy, or bigot or twit, or making remarks about his ancestors crawling up on the shores."

He, and Flint have both proved they are real and are willing to go on to the next debate whether they agreed with you in the last one or not. They do not keep on hounding anyone who has disagreed with them in the past. They do not pretend to be something they are not.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), April 23, 2000.

You mean them old shrines you dont need,

And my warnings of fags you dont heed.

Im crushed Gilda dear,

As Im shedding a tear,

Youre a good sport and person indeed!

-- Ra (tion@l.1), April 24, 2000.

but when people have made their home here from a repressive dictator, and then accuse Clinton, Reno, and the government of being like Castro, and burning the flag, I say get the hell out of here.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), April 24, 2000.

Unc, I wasn't saying the government should do anything to repress free speech, or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, or redress their grievances. I'm the biggest proponent of free speech in my hometown.

But no one tried to repress their free speech. They've been assembling for weeks and weeks. The government has done everything in their power to redress their grievances, and yet get this family to do the right thing. They refused. Their speeches were inflamatory, they wouldn't cooperate, they played to the media, and hitting police officers with base ball bats, burning tires in the street and trying to start a riot is *not* peaceable assembly.

It was my PERSONAL opinion that if they don't like the way things are done here, then they should get the hell out of here.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), April 24, 2000.

Right on Gilda...

WILL SOMEONE PLEASEEEE answer my question:

IS IT OR IS IT NOT ILLEGAL TO BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG??????????

Dont like America, GO, but I betcha it WONT be back to Cuba.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), April 24, 2000.

But no one tried to repress their free speech.

True so far as I know.

They've been assembling for weeks and weeks.

As is thier right.

The government has done everything in their power to redress their grievances, and yet get this family to do the right thing. They refused. Their speeches were inflamatory, Inflamatory? Like the rhetoric directed against the "cult" at Waco? they wouldn't cooperate, they played to the media, Played to the media? Horrors! Bill and Janet would NEVER do such a thing! and hitting police officers with base ball bats, burning tires in the street and trying to start a riot is *not* peaceable assembly.

I agree that hitting cops, burning tires etc is not peaceable assembly. Nobody in the Gonzales family is accused of doing such things.

Why is it that the father let Elian's mother take him in an attempt to reach America? Why is it that when the father learned that Elian was safe that was all he was concerned about? Why is it that it took so long before he began to insist that his son be returned? It couldn't be because that is what CASTRO wants could it? Nah, it couldn't be, everyone knows how much freedom of choice Cubans have.

Also, this situation is a mess, and I think the father has a right to see his kid. But the law that allows Cubans to stay in America once they land here has NO AGE LIMIT.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), April 24, 2000.

IS IT OR IS IT NOT ILLEGAL TO BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG??????????

That depends on where you burn it I think, whether or not you would be arrested. Don't try it in downtown Macon GA.

Of course burning the flag is the proscribed way of destroying an old worn out flag. So I guess it is OK, so long as you are not attempting to use the burning of the flag as a way of voicing your 1st Amendment right of free speach.

Lovely, huh?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), April 24, 2000.

Consumer, it appears American Flag burning is not illegal:

"On March 29, 2000, Senate Joint Resolution 14, the Flag Protection Constitutional Amendment, was lost in a 63-37 vote in the United States Senate."

To voice your protest against this and vent your frustration, you can burn a flag burner here

Or if you want to learn more about flag burning history and controversy, visit The Flag Burning Page

And for those who want to know how to show respect in handling the flag, here is the U.S. "Flag Code"

So consumer, tell me, how do you enforce respect in this country? And on this forum? Freedom of speech is so annoying at times.

-- Ann A. Lyze (@ .), April 24, 2000.

U.S. "Flag Code"

Hopefully this link works.

-- Ann A. Lyze (@ .), April 24, 2000.

Ra and Gilda, great responses.

It's not a question of freedom of speech for these Miami Cubians. It's a question of breaking the law. I think they should be arrested for distrubing the peace (as some of them were) and also for kidnapping. These supposed relatives (distant as they are) kidnapped this poor kid, refusing to turn him over to his father. They can speak freely but they also need to obey the laws of this country. For breaking the law, they should be arrested. I'm so glad Reno moved on this one.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 24, 2000.

Maria, I could not agree with you more. Janet Reno has never been one of my heroes but she went up a notch or two over the weekend. Too bad she didnt act sooner but I could kiss her anyway.ah,er..maybe Ill just call.

-- Sifting (through@the.rubble), April 24, 2000.

The only thing that disappointed me about the hostage rescue was that they didnt bust up some up those law-breaking spics when the opportunity was available.

Sifting (through@the.rubble), April 24, 2000.

Sifting, are _you_ Manny?

-- (Racism@an ugly.thing), April 24, 2000.

(Stupidity@an uglier thing)..

No you ignorant fuck Im not Manny and Im sure as hell not too worried about being politically correct at the moment. If that disturbs your fucking sensibilities, tough shit asshole.

-- Sifting (through@the.rubble), April 24, 2000.

Sifting, you've got to be either Hawk or Ra. I agree that you're too eloquent to be Manny.

-- Q-man (qman@insults.rus), April 24, 2000.

Sifting = Hawk

Analysis of recent phraseology confirms it! Frequent use of the endearing term "asshole" is most indicative. Also frequent use of "fuck" and "tough shit" tend to concide with Hawk's style.

-- sleuth (sleuth@mystery.solved), April 24, 2000.

LOL Slueth, I guess you used those great investigative qualities in finding out about Y2K also. Like not very many people use those words. LOL.

-- Spy (not@investigating.much), April 25, 2000.

Morning, Pro!

You must be frustrated because Sleuth forgot to include you in the group of those who most frequently use such endearing words.

By the way, is Pro short for Prophylactic?

-- Counter-Spy (cs@counter.intelligence), April 25, 2000.