1. Explain the difference between Christianity and a cult.

2. Explain why Christianity is valid and the thousands of other world religions are a sham.

3. Explain why God would send a good person to Hell while allowing a Hitler that repented with 5 minutes left on his deathbed into Heaven.

4. Explain why millions have died in the name of Christianity

5. Explain, without using Bible verses or personal emotions, how you are so sure that Christianity is correct.

-- Wonderer (@ .), April 21, 2000

Answers

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"

"For the wages of sin is death but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our lord"

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever should beleiveth in him shall not die but have everlasting life"

-- Just accept Jesus (and@live.forever), April 21, 2000.

Wonderer, Your questions are valid. I am a Christian, but I cannot answer all of them. Don't let messages from idiots like "Just Accept Jesus" sway you. God does say that if we look for Him with a sincerity, He will reveal Himself. You are on the right track by asking difficult questions.

-- Seeker (Pressing@toward.mark), April 21, 2000.

Seeker, The poster that stated "Just Accept" quoted a few scriptures, I don't think that makes him an idiot, but in this case his reply and yours is just a waste of time on deaf ears. Look at the way "Wonderer" phrased the thread and questions.

"Wonderer", if you have questions and truly want answers, try going to your local church. Ask him anything you wish, and read the Bible for yourself. If you had asked questions here sincerely, I am sure you would have found many who would have tried to help you, but alas, you did not (try "I have often wondered..." rather than "tough questions for Christians"). I personally think that you don't want answers, but instead seek to discourage. It appears you follow a different leader, and thanks, but I won't go there with you ;)

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 21, 2000.

1. Explain the difference between Christianity and a cult.

I will tackle this one because it's been on my mind a lot. In my option, the true leader of the Christian religion, Jesus, is no longer walking the Earth in human form. On the other hand, leaders of thriving cults are very much alive, and not only walking around, but making speeches about how they are God.

Are the Mormons a cult?

-- (kb8um8@yahoo.com), April 21, 2000.

Wonderer, As I stated, "Just Accept" is an idiot, and his twin brother "FactFinder" is from the same mold. If you go to a church, they will tell you what will cause you to come back and contribute to their 501c3 corporation (which is all a modern church is). You will find answers in the Bible, and as stated, God will reveal Himself to you if you are sincere.

Go ahead and ask if Bhudda was right, or the Shamans, or any other religions. I am certain that the creator of the universe will prove Himself to you as He has always. Don't let these zealot Christians (and remember, I am a Christian) force you to "turn or burn". You will find the right path...God promises it is so.

-- Seeker (Pressing@toward.mark), April 21, 2000.

ROFL Seeker, I myself claim only to be a Christian "wannabe", i.e, I would LIKE to be a good follower. But I do know some true Christians, and you Seeker, you are certainly no Christian!

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 21, 2000.

"You will find the right path...God promises it is so."

Uh, Seeker, could you provide the source for this quote, or is it from the "god within you"? Again, no thanks, lol. ;)

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 21, 2000.

Just remember, Wonderer, only God can reveal Himself to you. Ignore the idiots. They want you to accept Christ because it will put another spiritual notch in their stocks. People will call you names, and they will say you are Hellbound and/or lost. Just keep asking the questions and ignore the idiots...They are the serpants and Pharasees that Christ cursed, but you can avoid them in your search.

-- Seeker (Pressing@toward.mark), April 21, 2000.

ROFLMAO Seeker. Uh, yeah, right....remove brain and follow the Seeker...

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 21, 2000.

Yes, and when God sends HER son down to see what is going on and pick out all whose who shall come up to live with HER, are all you males going to have to re-think something?

-- Pat (-@still.here), April 21, 2000.

I'm not male.

-- Seeker (Pressing@toward.mark), April 21, 2000.

Wonderer, you said,

1. Explain the difference between Christianity and a cult.

Christianity describes the truth, I'd assume cults do not.

2. Explain why Christianity is valid and the thousands of other world religions are a sham.

Christianity is valid because it is Other religions may have God's truth in them, but I have not studied any of them extensively enough to be sure.

3. Explain why God would send a good person to Hell while allowing a Hitler that repented with 5 minutes left on his deathbed into Heaven.

I don't think he would send a good person to Hell (the kicker is what does God define as "good"). As for Hitler, where he ends up is between him and God, but we can't say where that is.

4. Explain why millions have died in the name of Christianity

I don't really know what you mean by this, but remember, to a Christian, this world is only part of the picture. "Death" is not a permanent or really even a bad thing, just a change.

5. Explain, without using Bible verses or personal emotions, how you are so sure that Christianity is correct.

When I look around at the world, I am amazed that I'm self-aware. I feel that Christianity is true. Why would you consider personal emotion invalid? Do you think Love, Joy, Fear, Hate are just words? They have meaning because people have emotions. Having emotions, one can use them to describe their experiences. If someone said they were happy, would you say they weren't because personal emotions were invalid?

I am sure Christianity is correct because I feel it to be true.

Frank

As an aside, I've had a decent share of formal education in the sciences, and for awile in my youth I was agnostic at best, seeing the world mechanistically. But in adulthood, when I look around at the beauty in life and realize that unlike the animals I'm aware of it it doesn't seem to me that this could be due to chance. I've yet to see a chemical reaction that *appreciated* what it was going through.

Faith by the way can't be proven. You read what you can, and make your decision on what you believe is right. Then you ACT on it.

Good Luck,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 21, 2000.

Scripture sez " There is nothing a another human can do to you", guess the interperation muckers left this statement intact. Another statement "There is nothing new". Remember, we live in skin.

-- Life's a (Bitch@ndthenyou.die), April 21, 2000.

Like Y2K, many just don't get it about God. What is ...is.

You can't wish God away, you can't "think" God a she/he/it/nothing...God is, what God is, and "opinions" here about God, your's, mine, his, hers, are nothing but amusing. What silly humans we are to attribute poltical/social/cramp of the day desires to some imaginary god in our minds.

Read the Word, your brain is too small to be authoritative when it comes to God.

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 21, 2000.

1. Explain the difference between Christianity and a cult.

There are plenty of differences; even the US government has a definition that is quite workable -- it leaves alone the Catholics, Methodists and AME Zion, but clearly identifies Moonies and similar groups as CULTS.

In general: a cult has a strictly-enforced set of beliefs, usually identified with the deification of a single (living) leader. No variance is tolerated whatsoever. Christianity, on the other hand, while containing some fundamental, core beliefs, is split into dozens of sects and denominations. There is freedom of conscience.

There are other differences.

2. Explain why Christianity is valid and the thousands of other world religions are a sham.

Most other religions offer the promise: be good and you'll be rewarded when you die. Christianity is somewhat unique in that is says, "you CAN'T be good, no matter how hard you try. Admit it and accept Christ's free gift -- He took the penalty for your wrong-doing, dying in your place. Then permit HIM to be and work goodness through and for you."

3. Explain why God would send a good person to Hell while allowing a Hitler that repented with 5 minutes left on his deathbed into Heaven.

This sounds like a platitude, but it's not: God doesn't send ANYONE to hell. All of us were headed that way by default. Those who admit this and ask God to apply Christ's death in their place can escape Hell.

In this particular case, though, I should point out that you can postulate all sorts of theoretical theological questions which, in reality, are very unlikely. Just because you can imagine something happening doesn't mean that it WILL (or even if it does, that it's anything other than a very exceptional case).

Years ago a friend asked me why God didn't answer the girl's prayers in the ABC miniseries "The Thornbirds" (remember that one? Richard Chamberlein and Rachel Ward?). I had gone through about 5 minutes of apologetics when it dawned on me: I was defending the God of the universe against a PIECE OF HOLLYWOOD FICTION. I corrected that mistake.[g]

So, be serious: what are the odds that someone like Hitler WOULD have repented on his death bed? Those who were closest to him at the end indicated that he never wavered a bit: he honestly felt like he was Germany's savior and that his generals had betrayed him (and Germany). There was no remorse on his part.

But, yeah, if you ask me if someone who has been a bad person can ask God for forgiveness at any point in their life, the answer is a resounding YES. The reason? Because you and I are no better than anyone else. We're like kids who compare fingerpaintings: my frog looks a liddle bedder than yo' frog, but God is even light-years beyond Rembrandt and Michelangelo. We're not even in the same ballpark, much less the same class.

And if you want to go live in God's house, you're gonna need to pass muster. Since you can't (see my answer to question 1), you'll have to accept Christ's gift -- He died in your place so that you could be admitted.

This gets down to: have you killed more people than I? Have you imagined killing more people? It's irrelevant. You're a sinner, I'm a sinner, and without Christ's death in your place, you're going to hell. Period.

4. Explain why millions have died in the name of Christianity

Because people are human, stupid, predjudiced and make mistakes. That's why you look to JESUS, and not the imperfect men and women.

If you want to push this any farther, fine. But you may not like it. MORE people have died in the past 100 years alone at the hands of self-proclaimed non-Christians (Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, et al) than ALL THE PEOPLE KILLED IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY, THROUGHOUT HISTORY, COMBINED.

This is no defense of Christian atrocities. I'm merely putting this into perspective. If you're going to point fingers at Christianity, point them first at, say, Stalin. Ol' Joe killed more innocent people during his brief regime than Christianity did in the entire 1900+ years of its history.

5. Explain, without using Bible verses or personal emotions, how you are so sure that Christianity is correct.

No. Sorry, I'm not going to play by those rules. That's like asking an insurance agent to explain why insurance works without referring to the policy, or asking why your mother loves you without bringing emotion into it.

But I will tell you this. The reason why I believe in God is because I've MET him. Trying to convince me that He doesn't exist is about the same as convincing me that my wife doesn't exist.

-- Me (me@thisplace.net), April 21, 2000.

Wonderer-

You won't get any satisfactory answers to these questions. Mostly what you'll get is examples of circular reasoning, like Frank's, or "stop thinking and start praying" responses like Just's.

Still, it should be entertaining.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), April 22, 2000.

Tarzan,

The great thing about freedom of conscience is, you DON'T have to accept something if you don't want. You can certainly reject Jesus if you want; that's your right. But there's nothing circular about the doctrine.

It's extremely un-PC to say things like this in our multi-cultural society, but traditional Christianity is the only belief system that actually makes sense.

TRUE Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Men and women are the ones who've added the stained glass and hymns and wierd rules to the thing because they can't handle that simple truth.

The principle is actually sound. If God is perfect; if His Kingdom is perfect; then you have to be perfect to fellowship with Him and enter that Kingdom. (Otherwise, logically, if you entered it in an imperfect state, it would -- by definition -- no longer be perfect. Right?)

(It's sortof like Mark Twain once said: "I'd never be a member of an organization that would accept me as a member." [g])

But you and I can't be perfect. Because God loves us, He saw this problem and sent His Son, Jesus, who lived a perfect life for us. He then died in our place, accepting the penalty for our sin, even though he himself had no sin.

He offers that substitutionary death, if we'll ask for it and receive it. You say, "God, I'm not perfect, I've blown it, but I accept the gift that Jesus offers."

This bears on a lot of Christian doctrine -- such as the classic belief that Jesus is fully God and fully man at the same time.

If what I just said holds true, he HAD to be BOTH. Without the infinite-ness of God's nature, his sacrificial death would have useful for precisely one person. Because he was God, it can be applied to anyone who believes.

But had he not also been a man, subject to the same temptations as you and I, his perfect life wouldn't have meant anything. It would've been "cheating." :)

Again: I pointed out the excesses of non-Christians not to defend the stupid and evil things that people have done in Christ's name over the years, but to indicate a more fundamental point: people, in general, are pretty mixed up. They do some truly, inexplicably bad things -- including MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT CHRISTIANITY REALLY IS.

Let me submit: most non-believers who are hostile toward Christians are actually attacking HOW MEN PRACTICE CHRISTIANITY, not the actual, traditional belief system, which is quite sound.

The "religion" thing is the problem. You have people who think they can join an organization and magically become God's children. They then start speaking and doing wierd things in His name.

But going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than standing in an aircraft hangar makes you an airplane. You have to pro-actively BELIEVE and have that RELATIONSHIP.

Historically, the decline of true Christianity has always come when the emphasis has fallen on the organized "religion" rather than the relationship. The Church of the Middle Ages is only the best example; at that time, the Church was really little more than a secular theocracy with an emperor (the Pope) who was more interested in political power than spiritual truths.

-- Me (me@thisplace.net), April 22, 2000.

"It's extremely un-PC to say things like this in our multi-cultural society, but traditional Christianity is the only belief system that actually makes sense."

Says you. I say that no religion makes any sense at all. My best friend would tell you that Judaism is the only belief system that actually makes sense. My next door neighbors would tell you that Hinduism is the only belief system that actually makes sense. My fiancees parents would tell you that Buddhism is the only belief system that actually makes sense.

Muslims, Shintoists, Taoists, Jainists, Animists, Odinists, and on and on would all tell you THE EXACT SAME THING.

As H.L. Mencken said, "Religion is like bodily wind. Your own smells wonderful, but everyone else's stinks,"

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), April 22, 2000.

Subject: Five tough questions for Christians

1. Explain the difference between Christianity and a cult.

If you define a cult as a small, isolated offshoot of a major religion, then Xtianity would have fit that definition. If you define one as a group that practices mind control and abuse on its isolated devotees, some people who call themselves Christians might fit that definition. However, it goes against the basic tenets and doctrines because Jesus and the apostles placed a high value on the right of an individual to choose between right and wrong, belief and doubt.

2. Explain why Christianity is valid and the thousands of other world religions are a sham.

I--as well as most other Xtians--would say that there is indeed valuble truth in all other world religions. Jesus and Buddah were in agreement when they said "be kind to one another." However, none articulate it as beautifully and perfectly as the words and example of Jesus Christ. How many other religions boast as bold a story where God gives up his own life to save the lives of a wicked human race? This kind of love is perfect. No other religion aspires to this perfection.

3. Explain why God would send a good person to Hell while allowing a Hitler that repented with 5 minutes left on his deathbed into Heaven.

It is not God who condemns us, but ourselves, in a sense. God offers us a way to life, and sometimes people in their hate, pride, and spite, turn away from it. Having said that, I think we'd be very surprised to see who is in heaven. Lots of so-called "christians" whose faith was a sham wouldn't be there. Lots of so-called "non christians" who _would have_ believed had they been adequately been shown the light WILL be in heaven.

4. Explain why millions have died in the name of Christianity

Religion and politics sometimes get mixed up together in disastrous ways. Nobody said Christians were a perfect bunch--some very bad non Christian things were done in the name of Christianity but that should not detract from the core message of love, life, and forgiveness. I will wager that the world would have been a far far more horrible place without Christianity entering Europe and converting the savage, bloodthirsty pagans who celebrated and lived by violence. We'd all be enslaved and probably there would be no Africans, Indians, or Asians alive today given the savagry of some of their practices.

5. Explain, without using Bible verses or personal emotions, how you are so sure that Christianity is correct.

It rings true to me because i ask "what if questions." As in, what if you were God and wanted to show the world how much you loved it and how much of a saving grace love and forgiveness and repentance can be. If everybody followed Jesus' advice and example, there'd be no war, starvation, cruelty, etc. We'd have a paradise on earth. I think his vision was the most practical and humane and accessible, too. While Zen is wonderfully esoteric--only highly trained scholars can come close to understanding it. While Juddaism is beautiful--it is exclusive and boasts of a "chosen people" whereas I believe God is more universal, for all man. While nature religions are nice--they are fluffy and arbitrary. While some may say that worshipping the self is good, I say it is the height of evil.

So there.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), April 22, 2000.

"Jesus and Buddah were in agreement when they said "be kind to one another."

I've heard that somewhere in Vietnam there is a statue of Jesus and Buddah with their arms around each other. Has anyone seen it?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 22, 2000.

[They] would all tell you THE EXACT SAME THING.

ROFL! Of COURSE they would! Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to examine the various claims and decide for yourself.

Everyone has to believe something. Even atheism is a belief system (though atheists get terribly annoyed, and launch into strenuous denials, when this is pointed out to them[g]).

That's why I acknowledged that it's considered "non-PC" to claim that one's beliefs are inherently better than others. But I can't help that. I don't give a FLIP about political correctness.

If you take the PC position to its logical end, it's not possible to know anything with any practical certainty. Right? All beliefs become equivalent (or at the last, equivalently uncertain) and therefore, NO belief can be correct.

If you choose to believe that, then stop voting, stop expressing opinions and (just in general) stop thinking. Right? Hey, you can never really know anything for sure (because after all, for anything you choose to believe, I could find five other people who would disagree strongly; right?).

I don't accept that. I believe as I do for good and sufficient reasons.

As H.L. Mencken said, "Religion is like bodily wind. Your own smells wonderful, but everyone else's stinks,"

I've never met ANYONE whose "bodily wind" smelled wonderful -- and I include myself in that test group[g]. Perhaps Mr. "Sahara of the Bozarts" wasn't quite as objective in his application of logic as he wanted to ... believe? :)

-- Me (me@thisplace.net), April 23, 2000.

Me-

"Everyone has to believe something. Even atheism is a belief system (though atheists get terribly annoyed, and launch into strenuous denials, when this is pointed out to them[g])."

Atheism is a belief system in the same way that baldness is a haircolor.

"That's why I acknowledged that it's considered "non-PC" to claim that one's beliefs are inherently better than others."

Actually, you said that Christianity is the only religion that "actually makes sense". You didn't say a word about claims regarding the value of one belief system over another. Just because Christianity is the only belief system that makes sense to you doesn't mean that Christianity is the only belief system that makes sense for *EVERYBODY*. The adherents of every belief system, and non- belief system, you can name would tell you the same thing. "(your religion here) is the only religion that actually makes sense,".

"If you take the PC position to its logical end, it's not possible to know anything with any practical certainty. Right? All beliefs become equivalent (or at the last, equivalently uncertain) and therefore, NO belief can be correct."

Who's taking the "PC position"? This is a strawman you constructed. In fact, I'm taking the opposite position; everyone believes *their* belief system is inherently superior.

Nice try, but you really should stick to arguments and statements already made. If you wish to introduce a new idea, please do so, but don't misquote yourself and don't misquote other folks.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swinginthroughthejunglewithouta.net), April 23, 2000.