Can you reconcile it within your belief system, or is it totally bogus IYHO?

-- Perry Piltdown (@ .), April 17, 2000

Answers

(Clever pseudonym Mr Piltdown. LOL)

-- CD (costavike@hotmail.com), April 17, 2000.

I didn't see the show. I have no problem with Dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible in fact.

-- I believe in Him (Jesus is King@Kingdom.come), April 17, 2000.

But unfortunately, they were sleeping off the effects a wild party when it was time to get on the Ark.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), April 17, 2000.

Hey "Unc" have you ever heard of the Loch Ness Monster, Nessie? This could very well be a Plesiosaurus from the Mesozoic era.Who said they were not on the ark? The unicorn is even mentioned in Genesis,but they did not make the ark. There are no limitations to what God can create. Check out Revelation it tells of creatures with various animal heads with many wings and eyes all over the front and back of these wings. They are closest to God's throne,something obviously very dear to Him.

-- rowd (morgan77@home.com), April 17, 2000.

I thought I read somewhere on this forum that the unicorn was symbolic of Satan. Was that on the tubbie toy thread? I want a list of which species made it to the ark and which ones didn't.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 17, 2000.

I thought is was way cool. Best graphics I've seen on a TV program. By special request, I taped it for my son (it went on past his bedtime). Interesting mix of science and speculation.

Why should it be a problem with my belief system? Ah, sorry, this was addressed to "Christians". Perhaps you may want to elaborate on your definition of terms, Mr. Piltdown. Christians seem to come in many flavors.

-- Spindoc' (spindoc_99_2000@yahoo.com), April 17, 2000.

Men never walked with dinosaurs. Few were eaten by them and only for a hundred years or so.

They only existed for about 60 years really. And far away from where man was. They died in the flood. I have pictures.

-- Elijah the Prophet (Elijah@Lampost.com), April 18, 2000.

Spindoc', what does "ilb", mean?

-- (Less@educated.than most), April 18, 2000.

There must be a full moon tonight that I'm just not aware of.

Why would dinosaurs mean anything different to a Christian than a Muslim or a pagan, for that matter? They lived a long time ago, something killed them, and we now have the computer power to make them alternately cute and fearsome. I must be missing the point here.

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), April 18, 2000.

The universe, whether people believe it or not, was created only 6000 years ago. Dinosaurs lived with man since God created them at the same time as man and all other species of animals. The bible definitely speaks of dinosaurs (behemoth) whose tail is as thick as a cedar tree. Yes, Loch Ness and many other sitings of "monsters" in lakes like Lake Champlain, etc., are plesiasaurs which have survived to this day. A Plesiasaur was washed up on a beach in California earlier this century and which a picture was taken. Another plesiasaur carcass was "caught" by Japanese fishermen who took its picture too before throwing the stinking mess back into the ocean.

Jim Cook, if I remember your name right, the question about dinosaurs means quite a bit of difference to Christians than to a Muslim since the Muslim doesn't have the truth of God's Word. It is the true Christian who is truly grounded in God's Word who understands that God created this universe just 6000 years ago and that evolution is a farce. Furthermore, the Christian is not to believe in evolution or that man descended from animals millions of years ago. We were created separatly from the animals and have a soul which the animals do not.

-- Paul (skypilot99@aol.com), April 18, 2000.

See! I knew there was a full moon tonight.

And, please spell my name correctly if you're going to use it.

You got the 6000 years from .....where? And the dinosaur washing up on the California beach from......where?

There are few that are both completely ignorant and totally bigoted but you belong in that select group.

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), April 18, 2000.

Skypilot-

-- Aunt Bee (SheriffAndy@Mayberry.com), April 18, 2000.

JJ Cooke,

I've been wrong all along. You are the most brilliant man in this forum. Are you married? Do you like neck rubs? Can I do your typing for you? :-)

(Down on my haunches waving my arms out in front, saying:)

"Bless me JJ. You are so much wiser than the rest of these dipsticks."

-- (pl@ying .on the computer), April 18, 2000.

Skypilot- I believe in many things. But, don't tell me my dear departed Saint Bernard had no soul. After he saw me through a great personal crisis, (my husband had had a massive debilitating stroke, and he was my greatest comfort; he instinctively knew when I needed him and always provided me with love; two years and $5000 later, he died of lymphoma). You know not of what you speak. Dinosours? No conflict with my belief system. Animals have no souls? I think not!

-- Aunt Bee (SheriffAndy@Mayberry.com), April 18, 2000.

JJ, I'm dying to know, are you Jump off Joe?

-- (Pl@ying on the .computer), April 18, 2000.

I believe that would be 6004 years ago this October. I heard it from a religious science teacher that at creation God put those big old bones in the ground to test our faith. Disney is doing a movie to come out next month called Dinosaur. In a small part I saw on tv tonight they could speak English!

-- Jimbob (......@.....ed), April 18, 2000.

Pilty,

Didn't see it, but as long as they didn't have some "Land of the Lost" human family in there playing with a brontasaurus, (I know, but I like it better) then it's ok with me. Evolution is to me the most likely phsical scenario of the "Origin of Species".

Maybe a distinction should be made between "Christians" and "Fundamentalists"?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 18, 2000.

Pl@ying:

Thank you for recognizing my true genius. Does this mean I get to share in the "big brain" honors with Flint and Ken Decker? :^)

I am married so I must, with regret, turn down your neck rub offer. You may continue to wave your arms at the monitor in appreciation if you so desire.

I'm not anyone but Jim Cooke. I'm sure Jumpoff Joe would be insulted by the implication that he and I are one in the same.

I have never called anyone a "dipstick" but "mentally disturbed" would certainly be appropriate for people like Mr. Skypilot.

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), April 18, 2000.

The program was totally cool. Best graphics! Behavior assertions seemed tenuous but the website gave reasonable explans for their best guesses. All in all, good stuff.

As for my Christian friends, some of you continue to amaze me in thinking that God couldn't (can't) figgure out the ongoing process of evolution that He set in place. What's the problem?

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), April 18, 2000.

Rowd,

Splain how a plesiosaur survives the solidly frozen Loc Ness of just 12 thousand years ago. Take your time.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), April 18, 2000.

Carlos,

I'll answer for Rowd. You see, every winter Nessie slows her metabolism Waaaay down and hides in a cave deep under the water keeping minimally warm by sheer endothermy. Then, in springtime, when the water temp increases, the changing currents bring Nessie to the surface. The change in depth jump-starts her system, allowing her to roam free again.

Boy that was easy. How could you NOT know it?

Of course the other plausible explanation is that Nessie runs "Old Git's Bed & Breakfast" on the lakeshore during the winter, and keeps herself warm at the fire.

Nessie unbeliever,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 18, 2000.

Oh geez. If the dinosaurs had walked with man, we would have tons of documented evidence. We would have stories about the time ancestors were eaten by T. Rex, we would have cave paintings, statues representing them, they would be mentioned in Egyptian scrolls. We have physical renderings of other long extinct animals, why not the dinosaurs?

And why didn't God put them on the ark?

-- Christian (christian@rightsoftheunbornagain.ne), April 18, 2000.

Yep totally bogus. "Dinosaurs" are really just reptiles. As you know, reptiles continue to grow until they die. Before the flood, the earth was covered with a water canopy (much like a greenhouse), And EVERYTHING had a longer life span. After the flood, the reptiles on the ark (probably babies) couldn't survive as long due to the new colder climate. So they don't grow as big now days.

Simple.

God created the earth and all that is in it in 6 literal days. He did this approx. 6,000 years ago.

-- Bible Thumper (Jesus@is.God), April 18, 2000.

Jim Cooke,

We have documented evidence of what I said. We have pictures of the pleasiasaur which beached in the early part of this century. And we have the pictures of the carcass which was snagged by the Japanese. We have thousands of sightings of Loch Ness, Lake Champlain "monsters," etc. Ship captains have sighted thousands of Pleasiasaurs in one area of the ocean.

We get the 6000 days from Bishop Ashur who traced back the ages of biblical characters to Adam and it comes out to 4004 that Adam was created. Plus, we have scientific evidence (tons of it) proving a young earth under 10,000 years old. Get your evidence before accusing people.

Aunt Bee, Animals DO NOT HAVE SOULS. This generation. Sheesh. Man was created differently than the animals and only man had the breath of God breathed into his nostrils. Animals cease to exist after their death. period!

I forget the other person who said we should have plenty of evidence if dinosaurs walked with men. WE DO! Stories of domesticated dinosaurs in China in Ming Dynasty. The lengends of dragons are actually stories about dinosaurs. We have LIVING Pteridactyls (sp) (small ones) in Zaire. We have Brontosaurs living (one eaten by natives) in the Congo swamps. We have fossilized footprints of dinosaur prints hardened at the same time as a man's prints cross over the dinosaur prints. Tons more evidence out there for someone who wants to research it

-- Paul (skypilot99@aol.com), April 18, 2000.

URLs, please.

-- (TooooooWierd@non.sense), April 18, 2000.

Paul:

I'm waiting with baited breath for you to actually provide evidence of any of the claims that you have stated.

The bishop's name was Usher or Ussher, depending on what text you read but it was not Ashur. You should at least know the correct name before you use him as a source. Have you ever read how, in the 1600's, he did these calculations? He simply guessed about most of the so-called times he attributed to events and came up with this ridiculous number. The Bible says nothing about the age of the earth. Why do you believe that this person's "calculations" are any more valid than anyone else's?

I have no hopes that you will actually read anything that might make you question your fixed delusions but here are two web sites:

http://www.npmc.org/sermon/gen1.htm

This one looks at creation and eveolution from a religious viewpoint.

http://home.xnet.com/~blatura/skep_5.html

This one looks at the same issues from a sceptical viewpoint.

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), April 18, 2000.

Aunt Bee,

An animal does have a spirit.

Read Ecclesiastes 3: 21

Ann

-- Ann (somewhere@reading.thenet), April 18, 2000.

Aunt Bee

I remember a T Zone episode where the old man and his dog were walking down a road/path and came to a nice gate and being thirsty he asked if they could come in and have a drink. He was told that no animals were allowed. So he went on down the road to a rustic gate and there was a hand water pump in sight......he asked if he and his dog could come in for a drink. He was welcomed and informed he had entered the real Heaven.

And then there was the movie...a boy and his dog....but thats another story.

-- fauna (xx@...ed), April 18, 2000.

what bout them wooly elefants took out of the ice?

ohwell...don't care if it rains or freezes..long as I got my plastic Jesus...settin on the dash board of my car!

-- ol' jimbob (...@....think), April 18, 2000.

Paul,

Where does it say the universe was created 6,000 years ago? Your document, you're using for proof, was created by man. Man, confined by his world, didn't understand the word being revealed by Him. Man lost something in the translation. I say, go with your heart and not the words written by man.

BTW, every living thing has soul. Soul defines life.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), April 18, 2000.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

I'm looking for the source on a Carl Sagan quote. I don't actually have the exact quote, unfortunately, but it went something along these lines:

There are those who say that the evidence that we have for a very old universe or for evolution or plate tectonics was actually planted by god in order to make it SEEM as though the universe were very old. That he placed all of the stars in the sky all moving from a central point at various speeds and distances to make it SEEM as though there had been a big bang billions and billions of years ago. That he did this in order to test our faith, and that those who believed the evidence before our eyes rather than some self-contradictory scripture would be damned to an eternal existance of unfathomable pain. That is some diabolical god they believe in.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), April 18, 2000.

Loved the Dinosaurs show. Dinosausr lived a lot longer on earth than we probably will. We have already sowed the seeds of our own destruction in some of our perverted religious beliefs.

Dancr, I don't like the idea of some god/joker testing my faith. That's why I reject this blackmailing faith. To hell with that.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), April 18, 2000.

Jim, I too have always been impressed with your comments and logical discussions.

You can't win with creationists though. I have long been amused by the so called creation scientists, (the very name is fraudulent) and their belief in the the literal interpretation of genesis etc.

Carbon dating is obviously flawed as the earth (Universe even) is less than 10 000 years old. Every one on earth is descended from Noah and his family.... yeah right.

Their views are an insult to most people of this world, and even to god if such an entity exists.

-- Mr. Sane (hhh@home.com), April 19, 2000.

y2kpro is distinctly reptilian, why not ask her him or it

a reptile is an it as far as I'm concerned

-- richard (richard.dale@onion.com), April 19, 2000.

I didnt see it. Can I still comment?

I saw Jurasic Park...

JUST KIDDING, but I did see jurasic park.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), April 19, 2000.

Mr. Same, I agree that, "Their views are an insult to most people of this world, and even to god if such an entity exists."

Yes their views are an insult to most *intelligent* people of this world. And if god, or such an entity exists, he/she/it must get a good laugh out of some of the incredulous beliefs that the creationists and bible thumpers espouse.

Of course, I've never seen a fundy or a creationist with a sense of humor

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), April 19, 2000.

Consumer,

I'll tell you what though, I thought the DNA explanation in Jurassic Park for a general audience was great. The rest of the movie bored me to tears.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), April 19, 2000.

"There are those who say that the evidence that we have for a very old universe or for evolution or plate tectonics was actually planted by god in order to make it SEEM as though the universe were very old. That he placed all of the stars in the sky all moving from a central point at various speeds and distances to make it SEEM as though there had been a big bang billions and billions of years ago. That he did this in order to test our faith, and that those who believed the evidence before our eyes rather than some self-contradictory scripture would be damned to an eternal existance of unfathomable pain. That is some diabolical god they believe in."

Just as when the earth was finaly proven not to be flat, and as science disprove all the nonsense in the bible, the bible itself had to be re-interpreted. It continues to be re-interpreted by all the myriad of religious factions to attempt to explain what science discovers. The fary tale that is the bible was written by men who wanted to rule over the masses, and it remains so to this day. Whatever explanation works, they'll use. And it works.

-- Ann A. Lyze (@ .), April 19, 2000.

Ann A. you got it right.

Much of what passes for the Judeo-Christian religion is either psychological distortion or full blown pathology. Not an exact quote, but it's from a very good book called The Psychology of Religion.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), April 20, 2000.

It is truly amazing how gullible some people are. They will believe fanatically stuff written in books by a bunch of fallible men. They think these writings speak the Truth, even though their truth changes almost daily. They speak authoritatively on obscure doctrines about which they know little or nothing, such as Cosmology, Anthropology, Geology, and Atomic Physics. They believe they have understanding but it is superficial knowledge. Their ignorance does not matter however as they cannot be wrong, because they KNOW the truth. Their god is Evolution, and they are True Believers.

As has already been observed, as Easter approaches, all the anti- Christian wackos crawl out of their caves to howl at the full moon, beat their puny chests and rail against the God who created them.

Elbow

-- LBO Grise (LBO Grise@aol.com), April 20, 2000.

Hi Elbow!

Still chanting the same catechism, I see. I enjoy it, because you have one of the most perverse delusions I've had the chance to marvel at. Usually the pot calls the kettle black, but in your case the pot calls the SNOW black. I'd consider your post satire, had you not spent so much time and effort defending the insupportable in the past. I wish you wellbeing, and happiness in your faith.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 20, 2000.

Flint,

So my joke escaped you. And gilda said the *fundies* have no sense of humor....?

Was I defending anything in particular? No. It is surprising that you were the first to howl.

Elbow

-- LBO Grise (LBO Grise@aol.com), April 20, 2000.

Elbow:

You mean there was supposed to be a rabbit in that hat? It ruins the illusion when no rabbit appears, you know. When you claim you aren't defending anything, you remind me of the child who said "I'm not pulling the cat's tail, I'm just holding it. The CAT is doing all the pulling." And when a child says such things, it's funny. You have outgrown your sense of humor, I fear.

As for howling, yes, that's the kind of laughter your consistent historical position has earned. My congratulations.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 20, 2000.

Fairy Piltdown, Have you ever asked yourself what is it that drives you bait groups you do not like, be it Christians, women, blacks, whites, whatever...

Methinks that you have some reconciliation of your own, lol...

Explain the evolution of man, starting with the creation of matter that consituted the "big bang". Then we can talk.

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 20, 2000.

Poor Flint, you try too hard! If my parody of the evolutionist's thought process upsets you, then I have indeed made my point.

BTW, have you learned anything about Special Creation yet? The last time we talked, you were totally in the dark, but KNEW there couldn't be any truth to it. Oh. That's why you didn't think I was funny....

Elbow

(hee hee)

-- LBO Grise (LBO Grise@aol.com), April 20, 2000.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

LBO said: As for the icons: I like Blues Party & Traditional the best. Then Professional, then grunge. After that, they're all pretty much the same, except for that Camoflage is a mess, and NEW is annoying (cuz then EVERYthing will be new, which is DUMB). I like the smileys the least. Of course, the ones I like might look horrible on the background you end up with. Is there an option for NO icons? Who needs em anyway? What are they good for?

It's kind of funny. Up to this point, I thought you were talking about somebody completely different than you were.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), April 21, 2000.