How do you ppl do it..... (repost)greenspun.com : LUSENET : B's Monster Rancher 2 : One Thread |
it seems that quite a lot of you ranchers can raise a monster with stats at 999...stunning stuff...how do you ppl do it...my record is my Battle Rock's(golem/durahan) power at 850...
-- golem rancher (golem@fimba.com), November 05, 1999Answers
I got mine up by raising two monsters as high as they would go in skill and int and then combining them. Then I took two more and did the same thing. Then I raised each offspring and when they got to their highest point I combined them. The resulting 3rd generation started with 587 in int and 490 in skill. I just raised it normally from there. It maxed out int and skill in just under 4 years. Hope that helps you.
-- James Lainhart (j_lainhart@hotmail.com), November 05, 1999.I have a tecno dragon with 3 999 stats and a durahan with 2. for the dragon, i just slated a robo dragon from mr1 with maxxed out stats. it's starting stats should be around 200-250 on everything, just continue from there. for the durahan, i just raised a 1st generation durahan normally, i got 2 that beat the m4 and legends. the first one only had 800-900 on Pow, Def, & Ski, but the 2nd had 999 on Pow & Def and about 600 on Ski.just my opinion, if you want to seriously raise a monster that you'd want to have maxxed out stat; you must first choose a monster who lives long, shy away (for now) from the jokers, dragons, & pixies. and do combining until you come up with a monster that has high starting stats as what James said.
-- Vanman (vanman@i-manila.com.ph), November 05, 1999.and then you gotta ask yourself if you really want to. my battle rocks got up to 950 in pow and 900 in def. these were his two marquis stats, and, with the help of a golden peach, an almost errantry-free life, and two long-lived parents, he was still racking 12-15 in these stats into his 5th year - more than enough time to max out. but i stopped, and slowly, painfully raised his harder-to-get stats, such as spd and ski, which in the end made him a better monster. btw, if anyone knows, what is the advantage of 999 over 950? combining?
-- torey luvullo (dst10000@compuserve.com), November 05, 1999.Here is what I did when I first raised my Mock (7 yrs. both peaches) and further refined with my original pheonix (5 yrs. 3 mos. both peaches final stats Int 999 Ski 999 all others around rank 8): 1) Nuts oil every week in which the monster is 'well'. This reduces fatigue. 2) participate in every battle of your rank or the one higher, except the official tournaments (save those for when you are ready, need to unlock expeditions, need your def errantrys, etc.) This does two things: Stat boosts in excess of what you would have got from drills, and battle reduces stress!!! so no need to rest (well, I'll come to that in a minute). Note: be sure you don't advance until you think you can easily take the monsters in the rank two above your monsters. 3) If you go on an errantry take a nuts oil and rest on the week you get back, same for expeditions, this will offset both stress and fatigue. 4) any week in which there is no available tourney do the easy drill for the stat you wish to focus on. be aware that if you do max out a stat you will still be gaining a + 0 bonus to that stat sometimes when your monster learns his 'lesson' after a fight, so I usually stop a few hundred points short and switch to another stat until he gets to his fourth year or so, then i finnish the job while making my move for the big four. 5) Always give the monsters favorite food, praise it whenever asked, scold it whenever asked, and almost never give in to it's little extra requests. your loyalty will skyrocket due to the nuts oil, and the combination of these tactics will insue that the style meter never veers off of 'even' once you get rolling. 6) there is one single downsite that I have found, eventually the monsters body meter will start going to thin (if cup jelly or meat is the favorite food this might take longer) so I have started keeping an eye on it and if it is less than normal at the start of the month I give a candy instead of a nuts oil that week, rest it, and give it another candy (since it is very well it has little to no fatigue) before continuing with the program. style still stays even. Basically what all this does is a) give you 25% more time in the year for stat raising, b) lengthen life by minimising both fatigue and stress, c) make you a pot of money, and d) give you three stat boosts for the price of one any week with a battle in it. (they may be smaller than if you work them up individually, but combined the tottal is almost always more total points than you could get by drilling) Voila! a method to almost guarauntee two maxed out stats and a slew of decent ones.
-- WildCard (rincewind@uswest.net), November 06, 1999.My stratagy is just off...I hold the monster in E-D class until I've got my main stat over 500, then I beat E and do D-C battles. By now I'm in my prime, working my main stat fighting rarely just for cash to keep my reserves up. I did this with my Duhuran, 600 pow and def before it made it to C class. At about 3 years I started letting the guy fight every chance he had. He shot up to A class in about 4 months and netted me my other double edged (that makes 2 in the inv) and continued his bashing assualt. He is 4yrs 9mons (no extentions) and is still working hard.
I also did this with 2 gobis, each had 750-800 power, 500 def and over 400 lif. Granted, I haven't made it beyond A in battle ready condition, I've got a shitload of bostered first gen monsters on the freezy.
Just a question, do all centaurs suck? When I got mine it had high stats (250-300 in all) and I figured it was wicked. BUT IT DIDN'T ADVANCE IN ANYTHING ! it just sat there and sucked, my Duhuran had about 200-250 in all stats and they shot up in no time. My undine sucked, and still does. I've noticed uniques have very little to offer. I've also noticed i have a legion of fucking knight mocchis. They are on every couple of CDs.
-- Just Alex (aka_cp@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.1] knight mocchis are extremely common. out of my 247 unlocked, 9 are knight mocchis - more than many of totals for some breeds!2] centaur is good to gain the two long and semi-long int attacks, build up all stats[they all come up pretty good] and play keep away/ drain the others guts. eventually, i'll give one a peach and see how long this strategy goes - the last time i got to s level with it.
-- torey luvullo (dst10000@compuserve.com), November 07, 1999.they CHEAT or bring in maxed out monsters from MR1 which i think is stupid because theres no point in the game cuz its to easy to win with one of those monsters
-- Neo (super_grover69@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.Cheat?Look at a first gen. duhuran !
Mine (Zealot) lived to 6.5 (not dead, but fatigued constantly, he is a freezy pop now) no peaches. His stats were: Lif: 382, Pow: 868, Int: 182, Skill: 589, Spd: 320, Def: 999
this was a first generation monster and I didn't know its best stats. It beat one of the M4 with relative ease, but alas, it was too old to continue.
Is you ask me that is a cheap monster, it crushes the game with ease (remember the henger of the first one?).
-- Just Alex (aka_cp@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.*Bows down to WildCard*Good show! I applaud your manipulation of the games rules to get the best out of your monster. If only I thought of that... ^_^
Keep up the good work!
-- Zoinks (kboi513@icqmail.com), November 08, 1999.Okay, WildCard, I have some issues or questions with your raising technique. Either you did not give us all the nuances or your system will not work with all monsters.Here is what I did.
I took a first gen Aqua Cutter (Naga/Jell) at 0 years 0 months. I applied your technique dilegently. However, I immediately ran across a problem. If I battle with this bloke, whose best stat is skill (161) and only two techs (both D to hit and D damage) it is gonna lose at best and be KO'd worst case. So, I decide not to battle him because I figure KO is bad due to the shortening of the lifespan.
Almost a year goes by, stress is high due to the lack of battles, though now he is ready. But, my raising style is doting and my monster is fat! I've spent about 8,000g on Nut Oil and Meat (favorite food) and only have earned 1,500g back.
Okay, second year. The naga can battle now, it's skill is good enough for E-Class competition and I am concentrating on Power. Stress goes away, but style is still Doting and it is still fat. The second year is over, monster is still E-Class. It could advance to D, but battling at the level is uncertain. Power just cleared 250, Skill is 270+, all the other stats hover around 150 (no training on those). I'm 12 grand in the hole, but I know this can turn around if I can get this naga up to a higher rank.
Now, I am in a quandry. I have spent two years on this monster following your instructions and it has panned out yet. I'll continue running the naga according to your instructions, however other than a potentially longer life, I have seen no benefit to your style of training.
What went wrong? Did you miss out in the instructions, or were the monsters you used 2nd or 3rd gen or higher? Were the monsters combined with something for a boosted stat?
I look forward to your info.
Varthlokkur
-- Varthlokkur (varthlokkur27@yahoo.com), November 09, 1999.I too have tried WildCard's training regiment and here are my results:I figured that if I entered battles too early, it would do my monster more harm than good, so I added a few changes to the WildCard training plan. They are as follows:
Until your monster is ready for battle(can win easily), I don't enact the program. Once my monster can consistently win battles, the program begins. Rather than using nuts oil on well weeks, I apply it on seems well weeks. So far I have noticed no adverse effects to this change in the program. I also do not mind if it's condition is slim or skinny so I omit the candy aspect of the program. I enter all battles and am doing quite well with my undine who has 630 int in 2 years and 6 months. I use mint leaves if I can't enter a battle within a month to ensure the monster isn't overly stressed.
With those modifications, I am having considerable success. It may not apply to everyone though, so if it doesn't, add little modifications of your own that suit your style and you too may find an efficient training system that works for you.
-- Zoinks (kboi513@icqmail.com), November 09, 1999.Hmmm... I haven't tried it with naga yet, those attacks do sound pretty lame. Anyway, I usualy do wait two to three months before the first battle (i.e. scolding and praiseing and generaly raising my monster until colt doesn't say the 'he may do foolery" bit) But after that I start sending him, and dont usually have a problem with E level battles. Some of the D level battles I may come in second or third a time or two, but unless I'm getting k.o.d I stick with the program. (this also ties into your how do I make the dough back question, don't forget to enter the D rank tourneys while still e rank, I usually don't start moving up the ladder until my monster is 2-3 years old. I.e. when he can pretty much k.o. everyone in the D tourneys it's time to move to d class and fight until the c tourneys are a cakewalk) Also, don't be afraid to send your monster on an errantry early (esp. skill, which will help your problem), I always do at the first sale, but at the very least take the first sale after 6 mos. Another point: don't be afraid to rest or apply a mint leaf if stress is a problem, early on and late in life if your monster can't battle you have to deal with the stress somehow, that's the whole point of the constant battles! As to the style/weight questions, I may have misspoke. you will have to do something about the style, withhold praise till he gets even, once you are there following the program will keep it there, once you do that the weight should eventually take care of itself (although I haven't tried it with a 'meat' monster yet, so if after a year there is no change give it some powder and I'll bet it will stabilize) As for Zoinks, I'm glad it's working for you, the main reason for the candy is a theory I had that if fat increases fatigue, skinny might increase stress or shorten life some other way, so I'm not sure it's needed just better safe than sorry in my case. Finally, an amendment: I've noticed that once past their prime my monsters seem to decline much more rapidly, even though I take no damage in most of the s class tourneys they seem to have a negative affect on lifespan at that age. Next time I'm going to switch back to a normal style once the stats stop gaining the 15's and 10's and only fight the tourneys I need to advance and see if I can make it to 6 yrs. again.
-- WildCard (rincewind@uswest.net), November 09, 1999.Here was the end result for the Aqua Cutter. Lif 306: Pow: 502 Int: 219 Ski: 490 Spd: 157 Def 300. Total points gained: 1147. 55 Wins 1 Loss 41 KOs. Purse: 35000. My $$$: 33840. It gained me about 4000 gold.My honest opinion so far, this training doesn't fit my style. However, WildCard is definately onto something. I have changed his training style a little and will try this one. I posted it to a club on Yahoo. Here is the post.
Hiya everyone.
After extolling the virtues of the 1 heavy/ 2 regular/ rest method, I am now experimenting with a new training method (sounds like a cheap infomercial). I got the base for this method on B Campbell's MR2 Board from WildCard. Frankly, I didn't like the method, it's not my style. However, it has potential and I am trying to maximize it. So, if you've got time, give this a shot.
Overview
The basis for this method is how fatigue effects your monster. We all know its bad (at least we should know). Fatigue is set up in levels. With Artemis Statue and Gemini Pot and your monster in its Prime, the fatigue levels should follow this pattern: Very Well Well Well- Seems Well Seems Well Seems Tired etc. (below Seems Tired doesnt matter). Doing a regular training drops a monster fatigue by one level (I.e. Very Well to Well to Well, etc.). Doing a heavy training drops the fatigue two levels (I.e. Very Well to Well, etc.).
Well, lets take a look at Nuts Oil. Nuts Oil relieves fatigue, two levels in fact. And, it gives a little loyalty boost. Do you follow me so far? Good.
New Training Method Note: you will need about 15000g to get this churning.
1. Start with a new bred monster (0 years, 0 months). 2. Train it for the first year on the standard method (Milk for 5 months, rest on Seems Well, no errantries, etc.). However, do not battle. Prepare it to beat any E-Class tournament (this is a Key). Analyze what stats your monster is good at. Stock up on Nuts Oil at the first sale. Get the style to Even and try to keep the monster from getting Fat. 3. After the first year, get your monster at Very Well and do a heavy training in a stat you want to raise. Unless of course, it is Skill or Life, then do normal training 4. Now, remember the levels. Your monster has taken a two fatigue (except for Skill or Life) level hit. Give it a Nuts Oil. It technically should be very well. 5. Do a heavy training, the following week give it Nuts Oil.
You should see where this is going. Technically, every week you can do a heavy training.
There are a couple of additional things you need to do. 1. Fight in EVERY battle you can win. Either in the same class or the next class up. The key is that your monster should be able to win it. This will do three things: get you cash, relieve stress (very important) and raise 3 random stats. 2. Raise your monsters Class when you think it can defeat the monsters in the class it will achieve. 3. Errantries do them as you see fit. After, give a Nuts Oil and rest.
If your monster is at a Seems Well fatigue level, give it a Nuts Oil and do a regular training. This will get it back into the Heavy training swing of things.
What this will do? Well, once your monster is capable of fighting at C-Class, your money expenditures will start to reverse (Profit!). If you train in a stat your monster is good at, total point accumulated per month should be around 30 to 60, may be more (heavy training should give you 15+ per week, a C-Class battle should give you 15 to 30 points, 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 = 60). This will also create a more balanced monster due to the lessons learned at battles.
Stress stress is eliminated by battles. If you dont battle in a month, your monster becomes stressed out. This happens due to errantries. However, between the Nuts Oil when it returns from the errantry and the rest, it should be very well. I give it a Mint Leaf then, just in case.
I probably forgot something, but I hope not. Give this a shot and let me know how it works out. This now ends my thesis. 8^)
I'll let you know how we do.
-- Varthlokkur (varthlokkur27@yahoo.com), November 10, 1999.Very well sumarized. My only coments are A) I personaly dont like the heavy trainings, swim and pull reduce two of my favored stats, and besides it kind of defeats the 'good at everything REALLY good at two or three things' point of the method. At least how I use it. The one exeption is probably leap when raising an int monster, just make sure you don't wind up obstacle screwed on expeditions. and B) keeping your monster from getting fat isn't neccisary in my experience, the constant drills and battles WILL burn it off, if anything you may want to fatten it up between nuts oils occaisionaly. C) I never had a problem with profitability even at a young age. Of course by the time I started this I already had an obscene amount of money anyway, and nothing to spend it on :)
-- WildCard (rincewind@uswest.net), November 10, 1999.The translation of the japanese item list suggests that for some of the inventory items, multiples have a multiple effect. I'd like to see what happens if you get many (3-5) Gemini Pots (which reduce stress). Presumably, your monster will be even less stressed during this routine, with a longer lifespan.Let me know how any further experimentation goes!
-- B Campbell (oriole@capital.net), November 10, 1999.I have tested a theory on battling. It hit me when I was using my phoenix to battle in the S class tournaments. I remembered a thread that I read on this board (How to live long according to Tecmo's Japanese web site)that said, "don't overdo it in battles." Well, my phoenix hit its 3rd stage (Prime) by 4yrs 0m old. I was so happy that it lived so long before it reached its prime(I was actually expecting it to hit his prime by 4yrs 4m old since he hit his 2nd stage at 2yrs 2m old). Previous to this, my longest living monster was a jelly worm (defective beaclon) who lived 6yrs 10m old(both peaches). It primed at about 3yrs 4m old. So you can guess how ecstatic I was, if a worm who primed at 3yrs 4m old could live 6yrs 10m old, then a phoenix who primed at 4yrs 0m old could live at least 7yrs 6m(I was expecting 8yrs).Anyways, he only lived 6yrs 10m old. I was pissed!!! After beating my first big four at about 6yrs 9m old, I was wondering if I could beat all the others and the legend cup before I died(At this time, I noticed he was REALLY slowing down). So I did what I usually did if I wanted to find out how long my monster still has to live(With a stress-free life), I just rested until I died. I was already dissapointed by the fact that he only had about 3m to live. I made the best of it by freezing him and bringing him back out when another big four tourney came about. By the end of his last big four tourney, he croaked.
Heres what Im getting at: with 3 months to live, I used 3 weeks, each one corresponding to 3 of the big four tourneys(excluding the first one). After each battle, I used a nut oil and rested, then froze him- thats another 3weeks. Thats a total of 6 weeks used out of 12 weeks. So where's my remaining 6 weeks?
The status of my phoenix at the time of the testing was: Stress and fatigue free(because of rest and nut oil after each big four), Normal weight, gold peaches and silver peaches used, 100 loyalty, even style, 120W 0L 100KO, Nature best, Likes me (before was tablet), dislikes milk, 4 erratries (whole life some in stage 2, some in stage 3 of life), rarely losing over half life in any big four apponent (maybe once to carmine).
What really got me was the fact that my worm lived the same amount of time by battling almost nil(about 17W 0L ??KO). Only for purposes of getting to class B. My phoenix didn't battle at all until I reached my prime, then I did it regularly(almost all 120 wins were from his prime). He had sooooo much potential, stats: LIF 486, POW 216, INT 919, SKI 665, SPD 805, DEF 735.
So here's what I think: Battling, even if you lose a little life, results in loss of life span. It also happens at any stage of your monster's life(infant, early adulthood, and prime). So you have to ask yourself this, "do you want to fight a battle that raises your stats by approx. 30pts and lose a minimum of 1week?" or "train those two weeks and gain approx. 40pts while losing no life?"
From this experience, I probably wont send my monster to battle until he's halfway through his prime. I'll probably only send them into battle in S class tourneys as well since they can give up to 45pts.
This was only a first step to validating the theory that battling is bad. I will write a more formal experiment below this on how it is definitely bad to send your monster into battle as an infant. However, that'll happen after dinner....
-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), November 16, 1999.TITLE: An Angel of 5 lives.NOTE:(If you don't want all the gory details, just read the conclusion)
PURPOSE: To determine how battling effects a monster in its infant stage(the first stage before your monster grows in size).
APPARATUS & STATUS OF ANGEL: Items in Inventory(Of possible importance): FirestoneX1, OceanStoneX1, HeroBadgeX1, HeelBadgeX1, Dino'sTailX1, Gemini'sPotX2, SculptureX1, LumpOfIceX1. Status of Angel: 2nd generation Angel (combined Centaur and Angel), starting stats- LIF 65, POW 90, INT 367, SKI 214, SPD 119, DEF 112, starting form- skinny, likes play, dislikes meat.
PROCEDURE: 1)Live through infant stage (with respect to model procedure: week1- week2-week3-week4) using procedure1: shoot(light drill)- nutsOil&shoot-nutsOil&shoot-mintLeaf&rest. Repeat process until infant stage is over. 2)Live through infant stage using procedure2: shoot-shoot-shoot- mintLeaf&rest. Repeat until infant stage is over. (This process is used to remove possible extraneous variable: nut oil) 3)Live through infant stage using procedure3: month1=shoot-shoot- rest-mintLeaf&shoot, month2=shoot-rest-shoot-mintLeaf&shoot, month3=rest-shoot-shoot-mintLeaf&rest. Repeat month1+month2+month3 in order given until infant stage is over. (This process is used to remove possible extraneous variable: more rest=more life.) 4)Live through infant stage using procedure4: follow procedure3 but replace any "shoot-shoot" in any given month with a "battleClassE- rest." Do this for one month only and make sure your monster loses more than half its life in at least one battle. Do not get KO'd. The tourney can be any class E tourney you wish except for the ones that you win to raise your rank. 5)Live through infant stage using procedure5: follow procedure4 however, lose "NO" life in any battle. (easier if you choose an elimination match)
(Note1:If procedure4 included an elimination match, use the same type of match for procedure5. If round robin, then bla bla bla....) (Note2:Never play with your monster.) (Note3:Try to raise loyalty to 100 in the same manner for all procedures.)
RESULTS:procedure1, procedure2 and procedure3 yielded exact same results. My Angel lived exactly 1yr 7m before changing size in each procedure. Therefore, usage of nut oil and more rest yielded no significant results(if heavy training was used, nut oil may have contributed as a factor).
Procedure4 and procedure5 yielded exact same results. My Angel changed size 2 weeks early. It lost 2 weeks of its life in one measly battle(loss of life & no loss of life had the same effects).
CONCLUSION: Basically, by participating in one battle during infant stage, my angel was 2 weeks short in her lifespan. To believe this, one must believe the premise that the age that your monster reaches stage 2 of its life, directly impacts the overall lifespan of that monster. So the earlier you're monster reaches stage 1, the earlier it will reach stage 2, and the earlier it will its prime, which means it will die earlier than its optimum lifespan. However, I do not know whether these 2 weeks of lifespan lost in battle will remain as 2 weeks losts or whether they'll be multiplied into more. This may be hard to understand so don't strain too much on this. Just remember that this is a preliminary step in validating the theory I have that battling is bad.
OTHER THINGS TO CONSIDER: 1)I did not test for a possible extraneous variable: form. 2)I did not test to see how much lifespan is lost by getting KO'd in battle. 3)I did not test to see if being sick from battle or having my monster runaway affects lifespan. 4)Other extraneous variables that I overlooked may be criticized. 5)I hope I didn't leave anything out! 6)approx. time of testing: procedure1&2&3-30min each, procedure4&5- 10min each. Total time:approx. 2hours.
FINAL NOTES: This testing involved only stage 1 of a monster's life. I may do stage 2 but it will take longer. I encourage others to do such experiments or continue with mine. It would be nice if someone could confirm my theory as valid and if someone else has touched upon or proved this theory, then my apologies as I have not read your work.
-In honor of my poor Phoenix, Caldera who would've been my best 1st generation monster were it not for those stupid battles(or maybe some other factor).
-- RNA (RNA@Ribosome.nuc), November 16, 1999.I suspected as much, however (for first gen monsters especialy) I think that the benifits of two to three maxed out stats and well rounded others outweighs any loss of life. Of course it all depends on what your goal for a specific monster may be. If it's elders cup time, raise a one hit wonder who battles rarely. If you just want to get to the legends cup as quickly as possible (with a monster that doesn't need a whole lotta luck to win) I stand by my method. Although, as I've been saying, I'll probably cut down on the fights once I get my monsters to s class. I think a good compromise, for those looking for one, would be one battle every 1 1/2 to 2 months. This retains the stress reduction effect (at least I never got a 'stressed out' message when spacing them out that far), while limiting any life loss from battle. Of course the financial and stat evening benefits would be limitted as well...
-- WildCard (rincewind@uswest.net), November 16, 1999.
-- The Man (djedmond@@pinenet.com), April 12, 2000