The forum originally split over forum censorship but more was involved. It is interesting to look at the responses to the same thread. On EZ board:

FM Even Ed is still talking about failures.

Here:

FM Here the responses are very different.

Very different. Dan the Power Man [remember him] is working on being tossed over there.

Best wishes,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), April 01, 2000

Answers

It's almost as if Debunkers moved here to the Greenspun forums, while TB 2000 moved to EZBoard.

-- (quite@ironic.yes), April 01, 2000.

Yes, this is DEFINITELY the "New DeBunkie's". The level of vile crap and verbal assaults here confirms it. Nobody is nastier than DeBunkie's. Nobody. You people deserve each other.

(snicker...)

-- Yeah Right (Ahhhh@haaa.haaa.haaa), April 01, 2000.

There's more than one reason, IMO, for the differences in response to Marianne's threads. Reason 1 would be that many of the folks on the EZBOARD were never interested in Y2k. TB2000 was a forum where they could share their thoughts on how the world has moved/is moving away from the world they'd envisioned. Reason 2 would be that some folks remember Marianne's entrance to the forum as FM the interested transcriber and then the transformation to Marianne Michaels who said something about using everyone as a source in her upcoming book UNLESS they E-mailed her stating that they did NOT want to be referenced. Reason 3 would be that some folks have actually read the threads she's presented and once getting beyond the narcissistic "Here's what *I* did" found themselves faced with a pitch for her book.

I read a chapter or two of her book. I thought it was boring. I see no need to belabor that thought, so I simply bypass her threads until someone like Z brings them to my attention. I doubt that Ed took the time to read a chapter or two of her book. I'm sure he DID notice, however, that she was the first to enter his newer "Fans of Ed Yourdon" forum.

SOME folks don't come here from the EZBOARD forum. I look at/post at both fora. I noticed that Marianne [who has been posting HERE for several weeks now, as I recall] put a thread up on the EZBOARD forum yesterday saying "Is THIS where the old forum regulars are hanging out?" OF COURSE this was NEVER mentioned HERE.

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.thingee), April 01, 2000.

As a long-time TB2000 poster, I am not comfortable with EITHER of the forums that arose from this split. I was never comfortable with the Debunker's crowd, because about 75% of their posters were vile and nasty (compared to maybe 25% of the original TB2000 posters). This forum does most closely resemble the Debunker's forum. I was never comfortable with Hyatt's forum (which is what EZboard most closely resembles now), because of its heavy-handed control and right-wing fundamentalist POV. I could never be okay with a forum that would ban Flint or Hoff. I lurk occasionally on both forums, but feel at home in neither. I miss the original TB2000.

As for FM/MM---her SPAM on all forums, including the original TB2000, has been boring (and boorish) beyond belief. What more can be said about it?

-- (Not saying@mindspring.com), April 01, 2000.

Notgiving@mindspring.com:

That's sad. Are you saying that you feel uncomfortable, or saying that you don't feel like you FIT IN?

If you don't feel like you FIT IN , I'll share something with you in confidence. [grin] I didn't fit in with the original TB2000 forum, and I didn't fit in on the Debunker forum either, but I didn't feel UNCOMFORTABLE posting at EITHER. I LURKED at Hyatt's forum, but would have never considered posting there. I never even LURKED at Gary North's forum. I checked it out when I first began exploring Y2k on the internet and decided the guy was nuts.

AFAIK, insanity isn't contagious. You may not feel you "fit in" with a particular forum, but on rainy days when you don't feel like watching basketball, there IS an alternative to cleaning the oven.

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.thingee), April 01, 2000.

As a polly, I wouldn't bother posting on the "other board". It's clear that Yourdon isn't interested in a free marketplace of ideas, but rather a mutual admiration society where no one disagrees much and the level of debate rarely goes beyond, "I'll agree with you only to a point. You're basically right, but here's a few points of minutia where you're wrong,"

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), April 01, 2000.

Tarzan:

Who CARES if anyone agrees with you? *I* sure don't. I post on perhaps 2 threads/week on the EZBOARD forum. I don't EXPECT agreement. If I wanted THAT, I could talk to MYSELF! [grin]

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.thingee), April 01, 2000.

Before one says that there is nothing but agreement on EZBoard, one really ought to lurk there for a while. There are some REALLY spirited discussions that crop up pretty much daily.

Joss

-- Joss Metadi (warhammer@Pride.of.Mandeyne), April 01, 2000.

This is another reason why this forum has no credibility, and another reason why EZ-board exists and this one is dying:

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002t2c

-- -@-@ (-@-@-@let.xcom), April 01, 2000.

---@---:

This forum is DYING? LOL. Reports of this death have been HIGHLY exaggerated. There's definitely STUPID stuff here. There's stupid stuff on the EZBOARD forum as well, IMO. SOMETIMES stupid stuff is good for the soul. SOMETIMES it's best to ignore the stupid stuff and move on the stuff of interest, assuming one isn't interested in stupid stuff.

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.thingee), April 01, 2000.

Anita, I'm tired of the stupid stuff. I thought I would lurk here for a few weeks to see what transpires. Nothing has transpired. I have always thought your posts had substance, but nothing is ever the same after a a breakup. I believe you know this too.

-- -@-@ (-- -@-@ -@-@-@let.xcom), April 01, 2000.

---@---

Glad I caught ya while I was still online. I've thought on several occasions that I'd just give up on this forum. The stupid stuff came on days when I just wasn't in the MOOD for stupid stuff, and I didn't see anything else of interest to me. THEN, I went to the EZBOARD, and I didn't see anything of interest to me there EITHER. Another day, another thread, and I found myself back again.

Fora [much like life] have their up days and their down days. You can't count on them to coincide.

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.thingee), April 01, 2000.

Gotta luv ya Nita.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), April 02, 2000.

Y'all got me curious, so I took a stroll over to Biffy...only 15 new posts in the past 5 days, and guess what? 12 of 'em are from cpr...LOL!! He's still doing his multiple personality disorder impression (or maybe it's real?), changing his name between posts so nobody knows he's talkin' to himself...shhhh, pretend like you don't know, okay?

It's almost as if Debunkers moved here to the Greenspun forums

It's not _almost_ as if. That is what happened.

-- jest an ole lurker (peeking@in.the.windows), April 02, 2000.

Most of the "stupid stuff" you might find here appears to be the end-product of our anonymous Multi-Troll friend who appears under different identities to harass LadyLogic, Cin, and pretty much the whole forum. It appears that he/she has invaded this thread as well.

As we've seen previously, our Multi-Troll is very confused, not yet able to express what makes him/her so upset with LL and this forum in general. As a result, we see multiple posts calling this forum "the new Debunkies" and lots of nonsense about how the forum is dying. If anything, the silly comments by our Multi-Troll keep it alive and growing.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), April 02, 2000.

You won't believe this, but I am NOT the, um, what did you call it? Multi-Troll? No, I was a regular on the TB2000 board before the rollover. I wasn't noticed that much, because I didn't (as a general rule) make personal attacks on the pollies. I was a 6-8 "doomer" (tm), and prepped accordingly.

After the "split", I have lurked here a bit, and have been amused by what I've seen.

NONE OF YOU can say that with CPR, Y2K "pro", Poole, Flint et al, that this is NOT the "New DeBunkies". I think Doomers_Suck is here too, right?

Yeah, you know who you are. The way you treat people who disagree with you is CLASSIC DeBunkies. Your filth and vile crap can stay RIGHT HERE, where it doesn't abuse others.

Yup. The New DeBunkies. You people are MADE for each other. Buh Bye.

(snicker...)

-- Yeah Right (Ahhhh@haaa.haaa.haaa), April 02, 2000.

Interesting. The only "vile" posts I've seen are from Hawk, and he hardly qualifies as a debunker.

I have noticed that there's a tendency now to ask for more complete evidence before jumping to conclusions, whereas the old board was full of people who worked to create evidence to match convictions. You might characterize this forum as the "learned from our mistakes" forum. If that's debunking, then fine. Ed's new forum reads much like the "let's repeat our mistakes in peace" forum. Fine if that's what you prefer.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), April 02, 2000.

I'll go out on the limb here and say, "This is NOT the new Debunkies!" There! My guess would be that capnfun and consumer have posted more than anyone else here, and I don't even KNOW who they were before [nor do I care.]

I wondered also, Flint, where all the filthy, vile posts are that this poster referenced. I MUST be guilty of this myself somewhere. I enjoy the diversity here, and Hawk taught me about Curtis Sliwa yesterday. I never knew who started the Guardian Angels and I can now slip that little bit of trivia into my database.

There's a "guilty by association" implication here somewhere. Several posters here post both on the EZBOARD forum and on this one, so several of us MUST be guilty of SOMETHING.

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.thingee), April 02, 2000.

Maybe it's also an economic thing? Don't people over here make a little more money than the regulars at not EZboard? Isn't this a younger group, many in college or with degrees? That's my feeling. Maybe more right-brain thinkers over here, too.

-- (shadow@who.knows), April 02, 2000.

Shadow:

Maybe it's also an economic thing? Don't people over here make a little more money than the regulars at not EZboard? Isn't this a younger group , many in college or with degrees? That's my feeling. Maybe more right-brain thinkers over here, too.

Not clear on your analysis. If you mean this is a younger group, EZ board won't last long; they will all have died of natural causes. If you mean that is a younger group, well I never say negative things about anyone [except when I am goading my friend Hawk] :o).

Best wishes

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), April 02, 2000.

Maybe there are fewer posters under age 60 on this board?

-- (kb8um8@yahoo.com), April 02, 2000.

Yep. Younger (38) with B.A. English and Philosophy, marketing executuve, married, 6 figures plus.

For those who would profile me, there.

Just added this to the idea that this board may be younger, more- learned, and of a middle-middle class persuasion.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), April 02, 2000.

Gee some of you are certainly insulting to the 60 and over crowd. I'm 60, and I never felt comfortable for one minute on the old TB. If I did begin to feel kind of laid back, I would soon be cyber-slapped about the head and shoulders by some of the "stupid stuff" crowd.

This forum dying?? You wish!

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), April 02, 2000.

Gilda:

I, for one, am glad you are here. I do not know who insulted our older folk. About the general crowd on this board, I do not think anyone meant that we "prefer" younger, more educated, right-brained types.

Your posts are always interesting, and I always respect my elders; I am sure you have much more to offer, and have more years of experience to share. Keep on postin'.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), April 02, 2000.

Im with gilda on this one. I kind of like this forum, maybe it's not as lively, but at least we don't all hafta think ...*or not*.... alike.

After all, if we all thought the same, groupware so to speak, we would all be the Stepford Ed's...

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), April 02, 2000.

You won't believe this, but I am NOT the, um, what did you call it? Multi-Troll?

Perhaps you are, or perhaps you're not. You're posting the same type of baseless arguments, so it's hard to tell.

No, I was a regular on the TB2000 board before the rollover. I wasn't noticed that much, because I didn't (as a general rule) make personal attacks on the pollies. I was a 6-8 "doomer" (tm), and prepped accordingly.

So you didn't make personal attacks on the pollies BEFORE the rollover, but you're going to do so now? Interesting.

After the "split", I have lurked here a bit, and have been amused by what I've seen.

Me too. I've mostly been amused by watching what people who make baseless accusations do when they're asked for something resembling evidence.

NONE OF YOU can say that with CPR, Y2K "pro", Poole, Flint et al, that this is NOT the "New DeBunkies".

Sure I can. This is NOT the "New DeBunkies." Are you saying that just because pollies are allowed to post here without being censored, that it's automatically a new DeBunker forum? What are all the doomers doing here then? You even mentioned Flint there in your statement. He posted to the old TB2000 forum. Was THAT a DeBunker forum?

I think Doomers_Suck is here too, right?

He might have posted. Anyone can post here. Even you.

Yeah, you know who you are. The way you treat people who disagree with you is CLASSIC DeBunkies.

Yeah, I know. Asking people for evidence to back up their ridiculous claims is CLASSIC DeBunkies.

Your filth and vile crap can stay RIGHT HERE, where it doesn't abuse others.

Hey, no problem. I can understand your feeling that requests for evidence "abuse" others, particularly those who are completely unfamiliar with the concept.

Yup. The New DeBunkies. You people are MADE for each other.

Sounds like you've got your mind made up. What a surprise. LOL.

Buh Bye.

Good bye.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), April 03, 2000.

As if this anonymous troll "yeah right" is going to disappear! we wish! Some people just can't handle it when others a right....and its worse when they are right BEFORE the fact!

I think its pretty clear how this person is; there were only a hand-full of doomers that were offended by the list of "pollies" this troll gives....and we ALL know who had the biggest problem with Poole, don't we?

"snicker snicker" indeed!

-- (doomer@fools.don'tgiveup), April 03, 2000.

Just to let you all know,

Anita (notgiving@anymore.thingee) is cpr in "cyber-drag."

He has adopted many "cyber handles" on this and other forums because he is addicted to posting on the Internet but too embarrassed to admit he needs to enter a program.

If his life wasn't so sad, it would be tempting to write:

HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

-- cpr (is@apompous.ass), April 04, 2000.

LOL.

That was a good one. I wish I could crawl into bed tonight and tell my SO that I was REALLY CPR in drag, but since he has no idea WHO CPR is, I suspect he might think I was requesting cardiopulmonary resuscitation.

-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.thingee), April 04, 2000.

Sure, "Anita."

Whatever you say...

HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

-- cpr (is@apompous.ass), April 04, 2000.

Factfinder,

(Stepford Eds),I damn near woke up the whole house with that one,ROTFLMFAO!!!

Yea WRONG,

So you were a regular on the old board, so what? So was I and I didn't stand out either. Why don't you post under your old name? ASHAMED? As far as how you are treated if someone disagrees with you,have you noticed you are not banned!I wouldn't have it any other way.You are probably right though,go back to the SLEZ board and practice your mutual masterbation techniques,at least you won't be critiqued for style.(was that vile crap?I'm sorry)

I am/was a doomer too, (5/6) and it is hard to believe we were on the same "team".Seems somewhere between then and now you lost your backbone,Is it soooo hard to admit to yourself that ol Ed is a fuck up?You and he can lie to yourselves if you want but don't expect me to buy it.

And guess what,THIS IS NOT THE DEBUNKY BOARD,AND I AM FREE TO SAY IT.

I bet you can't make the same claim about Ed's alter.

Now straighten your skirt and go home.

Anita,

Top ten I think(who cares), and for general info, allways capnfun except for a brief stint as me@libertytree(the domain user was quite upset) and as myself but the spam was atrocious.

37

Not filthy rich but not living in a cardboard box either.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), April 04, 2000.

Hey, Future Shock and Fact Fouler (grin), stop it! You're making me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Concerning Flint, he is a master at arguing, but I like him, even if he does just wear me out.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), April 04, 2000.

Hey all, been busy and not posting toooo often.

How did I get dragged into this one? Anita, I am who I say I am...If you look into the archives at the old time bomb, you'll find I posted quite alot there.

I was 'scared to death' and made mistakes and came across as out right dumb at times.

Oh well, such is life. I learned to NEVER trust what you read/hear on the internet..

As I stated before in another thread, I have NEVER used a fake handle here because I know I will not be censored and have CAME a VERY LONG way as to giving a darn what others think of me.

I dont know exactly what you were trying to get across when you mentioned me and capn fun. Could you be more specific?

Thanks.

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), April 05, 2000.

Sure, Consumer.

A poster tried to state that THIS was the new Debunkers' forum. This could be said if the majority of posts here were by regulars at the old Debunkers' forum. I "targeted" you and capnfun because I felt both of you were regulars of TB2000, NOT regulars of Debunkers'. That's all there was to it.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), April 05, 2000.

Thanks for being specific Anita, you are CORRECT, I NEVER posted at debunkers ever.....

Was an old forum member at TB2000, when uncle deedah, bardou, gayla, and tooo many others to name were there. Archives says it all....

Thanks for stickin up for me..... (smile)

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), April 05, 2000.