TB SPINOFF nears top ten of Greenspun in 15 days. EY's TB II left in dust.

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread

Does "censorship" pay on the net? About as well as being boring. \

The Net has spoken very loudly to the 35 year computer systems expert. You "censor" and you lose. Call it property rights, call it off topic or anything you want. Mind control is out.

People go elsewhere. Can you continue to manipulate many followers by deleting people who disagree? Only if you can do the Gary North propaganda show and cut some slack when you are wrong. Since Yourdon was never "wrong" (ask him), he can't cut the slack. So, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS, out of sight and out of mind. (Except he will read this sooner or later.)

Not if you measure the results of what happens when censorship is exercised by a "double standard".

TB II now has 560 "members" up just 100 in the last 8 days. Post count on Y2k thread if accurate reads 2,500 with almost all of Carl cut&paste and Dee360 reposted here (and GICC).

Number of actives there are maybe 15.

Was Ed trying for the Greta Garbo of Y2k award? If so, EY got Vhat he wanted. He Vill be alone. Yah. Except for occasional visits from his competitors Hyatt, Lord, and other strays.

TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000); 367166 messages, latest on March 17, 2000

Monster Rancher 2; 21188 messages, latest on March 18, 2000 TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) Preparation Forum; 15146 messages, latest on March 17, 2000 Large format photography; 10693 messages, latest on March 18, 2000 The Government of the United States; 9525 messages, latest on March 18, 2000 Squishy; 9061 messages, latest on March 17, 2000 I-695 Thirty Dollar License Tab Initiative; 8579 messages, latest on March 18, 2000 TitanicShack; 7799 messages, latest on March 12, 2000 Imaging Resource Discussion; 7465 messages, latest on March 18, 2000 Monster Rancher; 7219 messages, latest on March 17, 2000

11: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx TB2K spinoff uncensored; 7096 messages, latest on March 18, 2000

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-- The Shadow (shadow@knows.com), March 18, 2000

Answers

Do you think EY cares what the topics on BOTH of his forums are?

560 members on TB2K II, and lets say another couple hundreds more on his more classy Humpty-dumpty forum. 760 X $25.00 (avg. book price)= $19,000. per book published, assuming he can brainwash his members into bying them. How big a cut does he get from that? Not bad for maintaining and censoring a couple of internet forums in your spare time.

-- $$$ (adding@machine.com), March 18, 2000.


Hey, I might be a customer for that book as well. I'd really love to know how to recover from a disaster that never happened at all. I think this would appeal to most of us SF buffs.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 18, 2000.

I'm adding Yourdon's book to my Y2K box. When I first started reading about Y2K, I started a box with files for all interesting topics, and also included some posts from TB2K forum. When Y2K was a Big Nothing, I almost threw the thing aways. Then I thought, hell no; I'm fixing it for my two grandsons and calling it Granny's Millennium Madness Box. Maybe someday, when they're older, it will give them a good laugh.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), March 19, 2000.

Gilda, I'm with you, call it "Granny madness", it will make for rich family history!

-- Nana (here@too.com), March 19, 2000.

Flint is not willing to give any credit where it is due, because to admit that Y2K would have caused serious problems if the alarm hadn't been sounded is contradictory to his pollyanna views.

Ed's book, by it's very nature had to be a sort of self-destructive catch-22. If people like Ed and Gary North hadn't done such a fantastic job at getting people to be concerned about the fact that these problems were very real, we would be in a world of hurt right now. Since his book was so honest and credible, the very disaster which it warned of has been avoided, and in retrospect the book might seem to be a joke to some. But to me it was the book that changed the course of history, and I think Ed deserves a lot more credit than the kind of disrepectful abuse you folks are giving him.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), March 19, 2000.



I'm a former TB2K regular who stopped posting on the new forum because it's such a pain in the !ss to follow. this is a much easier format, and I frankly don't have the time or the T1 line to play games while TB2K II dithers around. This forum, like the old one, is much more user friendly. As for Ed's legacy, I always considered him far more credible than GN, and I think he had a real impact on awareness. I also think he really overestimated y2k's effect, even if he didn't go Infomagic. I still have people who come up to me and say, "Beirut, huh?"

-- Lurking (lurking@here.com), March 19, 2000.

But to me it was the book that changed the course of history

Well since all you've read in the past was Archie comics I can see why you feel that way.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 19, 2000.


Hey Unc,

Let's see, wasn't it you who just accused me of acting juvenile on another thread?

Well, isn't that interesting... let's take a closer look at this thread...

Did I say anything to you, or anything offensive at all?... NOPE, I DON'T THINK SO!!

Did you come onto this thread INITIATING a juvenile attempt to provoke me into responding??... YOU BET YOUR ASS YOU DID!!

Okay, so here's the reply you were asking for...

FUCK YOU, YA DUMBSHIT OLD SENILE FUCKWAD!!

As I said, I am a mirror, and I rest my case. Have a good evening. :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), March 19, 2000.


C'mon Hawk, changed the course of history? Kinda like the Bible?

PS, I had a very nice evening, thank you for your kind regards. Also, you are correct about this thread, I did poke at you in a juvenile manner, please accept my apology.

PPS, Admitting a mistake is easy, try it sometime.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 20, 2000.


Hey Hawk:

Have you done any more airline crash investigations lately? Giggle...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), March 20, 2000.



Pro, don't laugh. That Hawk may have unique insight on at least one particular airline incident is acknowledged by none other than Skeptic Extraordinaire Jim Cooke.

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), March 20, 2000.

Ah HELL Hawk, lighten up will ya?

See, the greatest thing about being here is that 'we' can poke at each other...Take me for example yesterday. Bad day.

Sometimes its 'fun' to just irritate the snot out of someone to see their reaction.

But, I must admitt, Uncle dee the comeback was a classic....the part where you said my evening was well and thanks for the kind regards..

I'm laughing my butt off.

I think most here who 'engage' have some AWESOME comebacks.

I DONT take you serious Hawk, never have. I think you are just a smart ass....

But, to me its all in jest...

_____consumer, and WHEN I DO blow up, you'll know it...

tee hee

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), March 20, 2000.


Hawk:

I started a thread earlier called "How helpful were the foghorns?" I notice you didn't participate, but perhaps your input would be appropriate. Based on the responses from people who actually know something, the consensus seems to be:

1) Peter deJager may have been some help, since he started his warnings early and directed them more toward the IT community.

2) Only a tiny number of remediators ever heard of Gary North, and most of THEM head of North only AFTER their projects were well under way.

3) Yourdon didn't chime in until y2k was in the public eye enough to constitute a market for his efforts. This market in turn was largely a result of the huge remediation budgets, which came first.

4) On the whole, these people did much more harm than good, since they frightened gullible people not involved in fixing the problem, while doing nothing to help solve the problem.

However, if you can find even one, single documented case where a large remediation project was started earlier (or at all) because of the efforts of North or Yourdon, everyone would be glad to know of it. Just asserting that they did great good without even a single factual illustration is kind of suspicious. Do you KNOW of such a case, or are you just blowing smoke?

That shouldn't be hard. After all, for your claim to have any merit, there must be *thousands* of such cases. I'm only asking for one. So far, nobody who actually performed remediation can find a single such case.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 20, 2000.


Forget it Flint. Do you actually expect someone who thinks Ed Youdonfor and.....(smirk,smirk)....Gary North(?!?!?) were helpful in "sounding the alarm", is going to be giving lucid answers? HA!

I mean, really... this guy is an obvious PR snot for Yourdon. He says: "Since his book was so honest and credible,... " HA! Double HA! Thats why the dobbs review (of DudBomb2000) said "open this book to any page, shake upsidedown and out comes a smothering cloud of horsefeathers...."

Yah. Sure sounds credible to me. And we ALL know that the scenarios in yourdonfor's book ALL came to pass...don't we?

"But to me it was the book that changed the course of history, and I think Ed deserves a lot more credit than the kind of disrepectful abuse you folks are giving him."

Spoken like a TRUE shill, little man; spoken like a true shill....

(your former "handle" wouldn't be in "cascadia", would it?)

-- ChickenHawk (plucked@nd.f$%^ed), March 20, 2000.


David L:

"Skeptic Extraordinaire Jim Cooke"

Gee, I sorta like the ring of that....or, should I be insulted? Now I'm confused. :^)

-- Jim Cooke (JJCooke@yahoo.com), March 20, 2000.



Jim, I like the ring of it too, although unswerving integrity compels me to disclose that my motivation for nominating you (instead of some other equally distinguished skeptic) was to lure people to that other thread.

So don't let it get to your head. 8^)

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), March 20, 2000.


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