this nah nah nah nah nah you were wrong

BLAH BLAH BLAH

the truth is they'll stop when the needling is ignored

-- rich (richard.dale@onion.com), March 15, 2000

Answers

I think they'll probably stop when doomers finally admit they were wrong about the consequences of the Y2K computer bug. Not, "just wait, it won't be long now!!" or "look at all the plane crashes, it's Y2K!!" or "look at the oil prices, it's Y2K!!" or "look at the stock market, it's Y2K!!"

Note that I'm not using the word "preparation" anywhere, nor am I using the word "apology." There's nothing wrong with preparation and there's no need to apologize for being in error. Nobody is mocking those who admit to being in error or those who prepared, only those who continue to dwell in their Y2K-failure fantasies using nothing even remotely resembling evidence to back up their claims.

Let's face it, it's no fun mocking someone who admits when they're wrong. Some people just don't "GI" however.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), March 15, 2000.

why should they apologise for misjudging the situation, why should they apologise to pollies in particular, they just want people to grovel

strange logic

PS I'm not a doomster or polly, the labelling merely accentuates the black and white stance people now seem to take in any sort of discussion its easy to understand I suppose, he's a racist, he's a democrat, he's a religious nut, he's a cultist etc etc

-- rich (richard.dale@onion.com), March 15, 2000.

Who says doomers were wrong (or pollies right)? Do the oil and stock markets look normal anymore? And what ABOUT all those plane crashes? There HAS been an increase. Not a catastrophic "ground all planes" increase, but a substantial one.

I look at the calendar and I see it's only March 15th. Only ten weeks have passed in the new year. I see a slowly accumulating effect of failures and incidents that could mean we're just having a bad year, or it could lead to something worse.

All I'm saying is the same thing we can say about the year 1941. All around the world there were events that pointed in one particular direction. Even so, the US managed to stay out of the worst of it. Then at the close of the year, BOOM. Pearl Harbor, and we're in the most difficult struggle we as a nation have ever faced. We simply don't know for sure what all the signs mean.

In mid-late 1930, there were many economists who were forecasting an economic boom/recovery in the next decade, simply because that's where the excitement had been taking everyone.

Only time will tell. History could look back and say it was the largest hoax of the millennium, if everything turns out OK. If things get worse from here, history might just say that Y2k was simply the trigger event for a period of turmoil that may have been coming anyway, but was induced early by Y2k.

-- Powder (Powder@keg.com), March 15, 2000.

why should they apologise for misjudging the situation, why should they apologise to pollies in particular, they just want people to grovel strange logic

That's funny. I distinctly remember writing that "there's no need to apologize for being in error." Why, yes, I did write that.

It's amazing that some people not only interpret "admit error" as "apologize," but that they do it even when it is specifically stated that there's no need for apologies!

"Strange logic" indeed.

PS I'm not a doomster or polly, the labelling merely accentuates the black and white stance people now seem to take in any sort of discussion

Then why did you title this post, "when are pollies gonna stop mocking?"

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), March 15, 2000.

That's funny. I distinctly remember writing that "there's no need to apologize for being in error." Why, yes, I did write that.

I've only got your word on that, maybe your memory is fading, it comes to us all, nothing to worry about

It's amazing that some people not only interpret "admit error" as "apologize," but that they do it even when it is specifically stated that there's no need for apologies!

No you want people to grovel bottom line

PS I'm not a doomster or polly, the labelling merely accentuates the black and white stance people now seem to take in any sort of discussion

Then why did you title this post, "when are pollies gonna stop mocking?"

don't understand your logic, I'm viewing this from the outside, you are the black (or white) side (I'm not as I can see all points of view)

-- ricardo (richard.dale@onion.com), March 15, 2000.

Powder,

Thanks for the lesson in revisionist history. Not the examples that you cite, but trying to get us to buy into the line that the doomers predictions included things like "gee, the stock market may not look normal" or "golly, it may cost you a few extra dollars to fill up the SUV". Do the words blackouts, cascading failures, guns/ammunition, Beirut, JIT inventories, supply lines, trains, blah blah blah .... , ring any bells with you?

-- 123 (aaa@bbb.ccc), March 15, 2000.

Powder:

You are almost certainly seeing what you are trying very very hard to see. Some things (like the plane crashes) are, according to available data, a pure artifact of being highly sensitive to *anything* that seems out of the ordinary (whether it is or not).

And if you pick any past time purely at random, you will find *something* going wrong. It would be astounding if this were not the case, since there are so many things going on all the time and there's never a time when all of them are flat normal.

What should tip you off, even if statistical distributions confuse you, is that so far we haven't seen even a shred of evidence that any y2k problems have contributed to anything beyond a whole bunch of minor, otherwise unrelated glitches quickly fixed. And this *despite* those responsible for repairs being very alert to such problems.

So your logic becomes circular. You're determined to find y2k errors, you look around for anything going wrong for any reason, and sure enough, you "see" y2k errors nobody else can find. As a suggestion, when you know you strongly desire something, you should be MORE skeptical, rather than less, about thinking you've found it. Otherwise, you are begging to be fooled.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), March 15, 2000.

I wrote:

That's funny. I distinctly remember writing that "there's no need to apologize for being in error." Why, yes, I did write that.

You responded:

I've only got your word on that, maybe your memory is fading, it comes to us all, nothing to worry about

No, you don't just have "my word" on that. It's right there in my response to your original post where I said:

Note that I'm not using the word "preparation" anywhere, nor am I using the word "apology." There's nothing wrong with preparation and there's no need to apologize for being in error.

Are you even bothering to read what I write? Apparently not.

I wrote:

It's amazing that some people not only interpret "admit error" as "apologize," but that they do it even when it is specifically stated that there's no need for apologies!

You responded:

No you want people to grovel bottom line

No, I would like people to admit when they're wrong. Perhaps YOU want me to say that I want people to grovel.

This is a wonderful example of why people like you are mocked and will continue to be so. You ignore the evidence placed before you, and instead make wild accusations with no basis in fact. Do you have any evidence that I want people to grovel? Of course not. Do you have evidence that I said that I wasn't asking for apologies? Of course you do, but you will simply ignore it because it doesn't fit in with your narrow little view of the world.

You wrote:

PS I'm not a doomster or polly, the labelling merely accentuates the black and white stance people now seem to take in any sort of discussion

I responded:

Then why did you title this post, "when are pollies gonna stop mocking?"

And you responded:

don't understand your logic,

obviously.

I'm viewing this from the outside, you are the black (or white) side (I'm not as I can see all points of view)

This is false, of course. You cannot see any point of view other than your own and will apparently ignore any evidence to the contrary. Thanks for illustrating why doomers are still being mocked, though. Your example did a much better job of explanation than I ever could.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), March 15, 2000.

Read Powder's post and then see if you still want to ask that question. ;)

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), March 15, 2000.

I would guess when the hucksters publicly admit they were WRONG. When the extreme "doomzombies" admit they were WRONG for treating "pollys" the way they did. When the so called experts admit they were WRONG and try this meely mouth BS of "we were wrong but the pollys were more wrong!". When the extreme "doomers" quit trying to push back the date for "doom" or "we won't talk about this until summertime". When the revisionist historians stop trying to change what was said and done in the last 4-5 years about y2k.

take your pick.

-- duh (duh@duh.duh), March 15, 2000.

Wonder if the 'doomers' would be endlessly needling the 'pollies' now if the tables were turned and Y2K turned out very different? Probably a moot point.

-- PollyVs (DoomerVs@Polly.com), March 15, 2000.

Wonder if the 'doomers' would be endlessly needling the 'pollies' now if the tables were turned and Y2K turned out very different?

Sure they would. They've already been needling for months now. Just look at what some of them are doing with not-proven-to-be-Y2K related issues like Oil and airplanes. If they're willing to needle people with those, they're certainly willing to needle with a lot more.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), March 15, 2000.

Yup, seems as though it's just about time to "move on" and leave the old polly/doomer debates where they belong. Too bad that so many just can't seem to let loose...there are REAL problems comin' down the pike that WILL need solutions. The almost endless debates as to whether or not such problems can be blamed on Y2K only delays needed solutions.

-- P.versus.D (TimeToMove@On.com), March 15, 2000.

"Hmmm", you make good points, but your overtone shows your frustration . You and Richard are both on the defensive (Richard appears to be more so), and so you're both apt to retaliate with some irrational explanations/acusations.

Richard, your question is valid. It just needs to be clarified better. Mockings have been going on between both sides since the beginning. But now the pessimists in general are more on the defensive because there's no solid evidence yet of what was generaly predicted. Some optimists (or "pollies"), take advantage of this situation to boast and poke fun, some in very subtle ways.

It is important to state and realize that not ALL obtimists and not ALL pessimists are mocking the other side.

When "doomers" attempted to explain their point of view in a LOGICAL intellectual manner to "pollies" pre-rollover on Ed's forum, they were attacked mockingly by SOME pollies. Now we see a reverse in general, post-rollover. We see SOME die-hard "doomers" mocking pollies in general, which now comprises some people who GI'd to the oposite point of views, and admit their errors.

So, to conclude, there's still mocking going on on both sides, still people unwilling to let go of their egos, and still people plainly uncivilized so that they still refuse to discuss civily without jabs and attacks.

-- Watt M. Eye (logic@vs.emotions), March 15, 2000.

Everyone Likes a good fight, staged(think WWF) or not.

This will not be over until we find the next big thing to disagree about. Most people live in black and white-very few learn how to live in the "gray" and be comfortable with uncertainty.

There is something in our human make-up which demands a conlusion-I do not know what that is-but it sure is interesting........

-- FutureShock (Gray@matter.think), March 15, 2000.

Folks, Little Dicky Dale is a self-appointed weinie wanker from the EZ board. Things are so mundane over there he is just looking for a little attentionno problem.

-- Sifting (through@the.rubble), March 15, 2000.

Well the doomers were wrong. There were computer glitches long before Y2K, there were computer glitches during and after Y2K. Big Deal. The doomers were as hateful as any group of people I've ever seen--dare to disagree and you were flogged. And I was a half-assed doomer myself so I'm no a polly flogging doomers. Hell, I'm a doomer, with a basement full of stuff, and feeling stupid as hell because NOTHING, that amounted to a hoot happened.

Admit it; we got our shorts in a big FUD twist for nothing.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), March 15, 2000.

LOL gilda,

I too have/had a basement full of stuff...gave it to sis in law, as they are in need. Still feel silly and hanging my head humbly about the whole y2k issue when family members are around...however they werent laughing when I gave up the 'stuff from the basement'....

---refusing to give up toilet paper products....

-- consumer (shh@aol.com), March 15, 2000.

consumer, it was such a relief to haul all my Ramen noodles and Macaroni and cheese to the Mission Kitchen. I intend to keep a couple of months or six weeks supply of food on hand---longer than that, I'll forage, but I'll be damned if I eat Spam.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), March 15, 2000.

Probably never - The only way they will stop mocking is if the government and the corporations come out and say, "The country is experiencing severe problems BECAUSE OF Y2K GLITCHES."

As this is probably not going to ever happen, they will continue to mock, even if the country goes under.

But, there's always judgment day.

-- robert bright (roosterbos@go.com), March 15, 2000.

gilda & consumer,

I'm every bit as embarassed as any doomer. Before I "got it" I gave away my electric coffee pot, my electric can opener, I bought a dish strainer to wash my dishes by hand, a chemical sprayer to take a shower (thank heavens I'll never have to use that!) and some other stupid things that escape my mind right now.

When it comes to humiliation, we're all in the same boat, 'cause polly's were doomer's once too.

~*~

-- Laura (Ladylogic@...), March 15, 2000.

shit...I just remembered I cut three inches off my hair 'cause I didn't think I was going to have enough water to rinse it! (I am in the desert.)

Water's a gooood thing. A very, very, good thing.

~*~

-- Laura (Ladylogic@...), March 15, 2000.

Sometimes;

a.We make good decisions for the right reasons.

b.We make bad decisions for the wrong reasons.

c.We make the right decisions for the wrong reasons.

In this case I'll go with c.,I gotta bunch of extra stuff I will use regardless and will actually save me a nice little piece of money.But what I paid for really,was a very small peace of mind.

Hell, with all the extra stuff we have LETS ALL HAVE A HUGE POT LUCK DINNER !!!!!!

I'll set up the mudrasslin' pits,I mean the horseshoe pits ;)

We could maybe even have a weekend off the grid campout :))))))))

I gotta quit typin,laughin' too hard,gotta bet a beer :)))))))))))))))

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), March 15, 2000.