Listers, I see there are things I believe but can't prove. With that thought I will give you back your forum and get back to my first love...actually, second....Church History. I studied it for many years and love it dearly.

-- Anonymous, March 13, 2000

Answers

I'm sorry to see you go, Nelta.

I am sorry and hope you're not hurt, but I imagine you get your strength from God, and not from people. Although Godly people are a comfort.

Remember, 'There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'

I want to be an example of the believers, as I believe Paul said we should be.

You'll be in my thoughts and prayers.

-- Anonymous, March 14, 2000

Give it back? You never had it! You were just (and still are) a part owner. Take a break, if you wish. Stop in and say hello. Personally, I "like" your posts. They make me think. And sometimes, I even agree with them.

-- Anonymous, March 14, 2000

Nelta you have said:

"Listers, I see there are things I believe but can't prove. With that thought I will give you back your forum and get back to my first love...actually, second....Church History. I studied it for many years and love it dearly."

Nelta:

Go if you must. But if you cannot prove the things that you believe you may need to change them because that which is true can be proven by the word of God to be the truth. But you would rather run away and never know if the things you cannot prove are true or false. You have demonstrated in this forum that you care nothing about the truth. I have demonstrated conclusively in this forum several months ago that you are guilty of sin in this forum by falsely accusing your brother of "having something against women" in this forum. And this happens to be one of the things that you could never prove because you knew when you said it that it was a deliberate lie intended to harm Brother Danny simply because he opposed your false neo-orthodox theology.

Then your arrogance knows no bonds, does it Nelta. You actually think that this forum was "possessed by you"? Such arrogance for an impenitent liar!

Now Connie you claim to loved Church history "dearly". I am concerned that you love Christ our Lord "dearly". He said, " if you love me keep my commandments". The Church is the body of Christ and no one can love God whom he that not seen if he love not his brother whom he has seen. ( 1 John 4:20,21). Now your deliberate lie that you told against your brother in this forum will not stay in this forum, Nelta. It will follow you to the very judgement seat of Christ. I urge you to repent before you leave. Repent of these evils which you have committed against Christ and then your "love for Church history" will have some meaning and validity. Otherwise it is all a farce for you.

This is now the third time you have tried to depart this forum as a "poor persecuted" Martyr for the "neo orthodox cause. I for one am tired of your pathetic lies. I pray that you will turn from your deliberately impenitent spirit, which will cost you your soul in the last Day. Now God knows that you have been told the truth and warned, and admonished often. I urge you to repent. But if you will not repent I at least appreciate your taking your neo-orthodox false teaching out of this forum. For we have sufficiently dealt with and disposed of it. If you will not discard those lies them you may as well go with them.

I urge you to not take much comfort in Connie's words for you know that she is not aware of your lies and false doctrine. God is aware and so are you. I urge you to repent Nelta before it is everlastingly too late. Your very soul is at stake. If you think that the grace of God covers defiance against Christ our Lord and trodding Him under foot and counting the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and doing despite unto the spirit of grace you are sorely mistaken. I say for the last time, until you return with another play, repent Nelta for you are going to lose your soul for these evil things you have committed in this forum.

I urge you to return, Nelta, to repent of your sins that you have committed in this place and obtain forgiveness and bring nothing but the doctrine of Christ our Lord and His INSPIRED word with you.

Your Brother in Christ,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, March 14, 2000

Brethren:

I need to correc my above post. Where I said "Now, Connie, you say you "love" Church History" it should read "now,Nelta, you say you "love" Church History". Instead of Connie's name it should read Nelta.

I am sorry for that error Connie.

YOur Christian friend,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, March 14, 2000

Brethren:

I need to correct my above post. Where I said "Now, Connie, you say you "love" Church History" it should read "now,Nelta, you say you "love" Church History". Instead of Connie's name it should read Nelta.

I am sorry for that error Connie.

YOur Christian friend,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, March 14, 2000

Thanks, Lee.

And I think Nelta said she was giving it 'up', not 'back'. Am I wrong?

-- Anonymous, March 16, 2000

...'this one thing I do; forgetting those things which are past, I press on to the high calling which is in Christ Jesus..'

Can't remember the reference.

-- Anonymous, March 16, 2000

"With that thought I will give you back your forum" - Nelta

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

I see that now, John.

In the header it says 'Giving it up'.

Then Duane says something to the effect that the forum is half hers?

Is she paying for half of this forum? That is not really my business, but if so, it says a lot about her character. (It must be very good).

The implication when, in the body of her letter, she said 'givng it back', I thought she meant that she just wasn't going to comment anymore.

Ah, the nuances of language!

Also, when she says church history is her first - no, second -love - I inferred that she was saying that Christ was her first love. Of course, that is not what she actually said.

What say ye?

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Not that many nuances, Connie...

"Give it back? You never had it! You were just (and still are) a part owner. Take a break, if you wish. Stop in and say hello. Personally, I "like" your posts. They make me think. And sometimes, I even agree with them.

-- Duane Schwingel (duane@mytalk.com), March 14, 2000."

He didn't say "half" he said "a part owner" meaning that the contributors are the owner of their own words.

Here's the scripture you referred to:

Philippians 3:

13. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14. I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. 15. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.

Have a great day! :-D

In Him,

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Please forgive my error,(about 'half' as opposed to 'part') I based my question on the error in the first sentence: 'Give it back? You never had it!' The name of the thread is 'Giving it UP'.

And I asked about Nelta's correction of her own words concerning her first love, meaning Christ, in my supposition, since there is a Scripture to that effect.

Words are very tricky, as everyone here knows. If we don't hear the inflection or see the face, a lot can be misunderstood. (Even when we do). And, also, I asked that question because Lee had referred to it, thinking I had said it, it seems.

That's why seeing it got my attention in the first place.

That's why mercy, forbearance, and love are so important ~ to cover the multitude of sin, the falling short of which we are all guilty.

When we read these posts, are we not 'to think the best of every person'?

It seems that at least four of us made errors in this thread ~ Nelta (she corrected herself); then Duane ~ he said 'back'; then Lee ~ he thought I was the one who said it, and apologized immediately (thanks, Lee ~ I already said that ;-)) and then I, who was looking at the name of the thread, instead of the body of the letter.

And then Nate:

Thanks for the reference. As I read it, (again, after some unknown time) I am amazed that Paul, an Apostle, was so humble and didn't consider himself yet to have taken hold...and here is where I had to look up what he had not yet taken hold of:...verse 10...'and that I may so share His sufferings as to be continually transformed [in spirit into His likeness even] to His death, [in the hope]

11: That if possible, I may attain to the [spiritual and moral] resurrection [that lifts me] out from among the dead [even while in the body].

In verse 18, he mentions telling them these things 'with tears'.

I saw another reference to someone (a male) having tears. I guess these fellows were (even though very strong), gentle and tender- hearted. Of course, Jesus also wept.

Also, Benjamin, in case you show up here, I re-read the information about the brackets and italics and other marks in the Amplified, which I had read 40 + - years ago. That's why I feel we need to study all of the different translations, and the Philips Paraphrase, also.

My mentioning the Vulgate of Jerome and the NIV, et al, isn't because I agree with them, but to see what they say. Same reason for reading about Calvin and Arminius.

I don't know what you think of Kenneth Wuest's scholarship, but I also bought and read all of his small studies ~ 'Golden Nuggets of the Greek N.T.'; 'Untranslatable Riches of the Greek N.T.; 'Treasures of the Greek N.T.', etc. I think there were 15 or 16 of those, but they are out of print, the last I checked. I am so sad that so many of my study works from years ago I cannot find, and now are out of print.

I also read most of C.S. Lewis' books of that era; my favorite was 'Mere Christianity' and I enjoyed 'The Screwtape Letters' for its humor and insight about human nature. I don't remember his 'Four Loves' but that may be where I read about 'storge'. I bought most of Francis Schafer's (sp?) books. I bouught many of those to give to friends and relatives.

Someone on another thread mentioned the verse '...Come let us reason together...';

Jenny, Dear, I didn't bring up the chauvinism charge; it was already floating around here.

But I did notice that a discussion is abruptly cut off if someone who is being ostracized (the only ones I have noticed this happening to are female ~ but I COULD be wrong), has the temerity to post.

In Him, by virtue of His death and Resurrection. I am waiting and watching for his return (date unknown).

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Connie,

I think you are confused when you say that Duane was mistaken. Nelta started this thread with these words...

"Listers, I see there are things I believe but can't prove. With that thought I will give you back your forum and get back to my first love...actually, second....Church History. I studied it for many years and love it dearly.

-- NELTA BROCK (nib@hal-pc.org), March 13, 2000"

Then Duane responded with these words...

"Give it back? You never had it! You were just (and still are) a part owner. Take a break, if you wish. Stop in and say hello. Personally, I "like" your posts. They make me think. And sometimes, I even agree with them.

-- Duane Schwingel (duane@mytalk.com), March 14, 2000."

I believe your responses to the posters here tend to take things out of context. When you look at things in a logical order they make a lot more sense than if you refer to what you think or percieve people are saying.

From what I've seen of your postings it appears as if you evaluate scripture on an emotional basis rather than from a logical basis. In others words it looks to me like you try to come to an understanding of scripture from what you feel like it is saying rather than from what it actually says.

This is a dangerous way of exegeting (is that a word?) the scriptures! At the cost of your soul and others you have influence over. Be very careful what you believe and even more careful of what you espouse. When you begin teaching, you will be judged more harshly on that day.

In Him,

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

commentConnie, Dear....This chauvinism diversionary tactic is very old. Nelta used it (or are you really Nelta? LOL, LOL,) so, do the guys a favor and read the older threads and check the archives. This has already been hashed out. You claim that they are chauvinistic because they ignored you on one thread, well check the other threads, they haven't ignored you there. So whats your beef???? Nelta tried to say they were chauvinistic because of the way they answered her, when in essence they responsed to her the way they did, not because she was female, but because of her false doctrine. Don't believe me??? Ask Mark Hillyard. Is it just me or does anyone else see a pattern here...Connie seems to be following the same path as Nelta? When Nelta was running out of answers this same arguement was the beginning of the end.

Nate...Amen to your comment of basing scripture not on emotion but logic!

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Nate:

I pray I have not offended Duane, who I guess is the 'Head Honcho' around here. I can see he believes in the First Amendment and the right of free speech.

I was typing my first response on this thread (and responded too quickly, before re-reading the whole post) and noticed that the title was 'Giving it up'. Then Duane said, 'Giving it back...' But it is really not that important to me.

What was more important to me was what Lee said, because he addressed part of it, in error, to me. He apologized, so there is no problem between me and Lee on that point.

And now I have to post this without having read the rest of your most recent post, because I forgot to print and read it.

I know I don't HAVE to print it out, but it is helpful to my old brain to do it that way. Which reminds me, in regard to the Elders in my church: I am 'elder' by about half, than some of the Elders in my church. But I still respect them, and do not usurp authority over them.

On a public discussion forum, I assume (air sickness alert!) that I can express my opinions and not have to ask my husband whether I can or not. I've already asked him all the questions I need to. Some of you have training which he doesn't have (he's an architect - retired.)

But he has a lot of knowledge on the Scriptures, and I do occasionally still ask him a question about them. He is almost 72 and I am 66. And I do not despise the youth of preachers or pastors younger than I. But they should entreat me like a mother.

Now, to go read the remainder of your posts.

In Him

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Connie and others...forget the word comment before Connie's name in my last post...cursor in the wrong spot and I was in a hurry...Sorry.

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Since this thread was started by me I get all the responses to it. I have wondered why so many of you are so concerned with what I said. I wrote Duane privately and told him why I said what I did. He wrote back indicating he understood. I also talked with Connie privately.

Duane, I am still resting and plan to return when I have something worthwhile to post.

bye for now! (Can't wait to see what all you gents make out of that remark.)

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Sorry Nelta,

But if you didn't expect people to post in the first place, why did you make this a public thread? Why not just speak privately with Duane or whom ever you chose in the first place? Once you made it a public discussion, don't you think it reasonable for others to respond?

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2000

Nelta has Lied to us again with these words:

Listers, I see there are things I believe but can't prove. With that thought I will give you back your forum and get back to my first love...actually, second....Church History. I studied it for many years and love it dearly.

Well, this post proves one thing that has been proven over and over again concerning Nelta. She just cannot tell the truth. She says that she will give you back your forum as if she possessed it like some demon. Then within a few short days she returns to the forum with another of her pathetic plays. Then she returns to answer things that she feels a need to respond to. Now all of this is fine for her to do but this is the third time that Nelta lied when she said that she was leaving this forum. Now She said she was going to return to her second love Church history. The implication each time was that she was being run off from the forum like so many others as see puts it. Now it seems that she is using this as some kind of ploy or tactic to avoid the truth. Now Nelta either you are leaving or you are not and it does not matter to me either way but when you say you are leaving but you do not leave then you are not telling the truth. To be truthful you should say I am going to be gone for a while but I may return. But no you make it dramatic as if you cannot bear our unloving spirit and in protest you are leaving only to return in a few days to enjoy more of this terrible unloving spirit. You just cannot tell the truth can you Nelta? Now I know that one can change their mind and not be lying but this is not what Nelta does. She makes every appearance of leaving the forum for good because we are all so UNLOVING but she keeps coming back. I am saying that her deception is designed to gain sympathy from new people in the forum but pretending to be so savaged that she must leave. The perception that she attemts to give each time that she leaves is the LIE. But that lie is just one of many and constant lies that she tells without ceasing. Now it is time for us to insist upon the truth. I think each time Nelta says she is leaving we all should enjoy the joke and have some fun with it because she will be back for her evil is not yet full and her sins are not yet forgive for she has not yet repented.

Nelta, You still have not repented for your sins that you have committed in this forum. I again urge you to repent for your very soul is at stake.

Your Brother in Christ,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, March 20, 2000