The real nature of the Lucy/Carter relationship : LUSENET : ER Discussions : One Thread

OK, here's my take on the entire Carter's Reaction to Lucy's Death Thing: In so many posts, I've read that many want Carter to realize how much he cared for Lucy, that he possibly had deeply hidden romantic tendencies toward her, and that they would have eventually coupled up had she lived.

I disagree.

I don't want to see these emotions in Carter because I believe that most of the depth to the Carter/Lucy relationship is based in the desires of some viewers, not the action itself. Carter will blame himself for the death of his student, feel guilty that she annoyed him, and feel general unease around the ER. I don't think he will, or SHOULD, mourn her personally because, as far as we could tell, they were not particularly close and they honestly didn't have much chemistry. When they did get along it was grudging at best. So if you're hoping to see Carter fall to his knees and pull his hair and scream "LUCY, WHY LUCY???"... well... I believe it's wishful thinking.

The horror of the way she died will haunt him, yes, and her bloodied image may do the same. But I don't think Carter's lost a soulmate, and acting as if he did would be a wee bit melodramatic; it would seem like a cheap shot at drama to me.

Agree? Disagree?

-- Cat (, March 08, 2000


I wish I had written that post!! I couldn't agree more!! I personally didn't like Lucy and John together anyway, soo... *~Amelia~*

-- Amelia (, March 08, 2000.

I so totally agree. Carter and Lucy wouldn't have made a good romantic couple. She still had a lot of growing up to do. She and Carter might have been friends, but never lovers.

-- Carin (, March 08, 2000.

I agree too but for different reasons. I don't think Lucy needed growing up, but Carter did/does. He appears to be such a superficial character that he is incapable. Think about how arbitrary he is in his kindness to both his peers and patients.

-- Sharon (, March 08, 2000.

I agree with all of you!

I LOVE Carter and I loved Lucy, but I don't think they would have made a good couple. They just didn't have any chemistry. I think they would have been good friends. Carter could have taught her a lot, and I think she could have taught him too.

I remember seeing an interview with Noah Wyle, and he said that in the original script of an episode, they had Carter and Lucy dating, and he said that he went to the writers and told them to change it because he didn't think it was real. He didn't think Carter and Lucy would be together. He said the writers said okay, and they changed it.

-- Laura (, March 08, 2000.

After reading all of your responces, I guess, looking at your point of view, Carter and Lucy would not have made a good couple. But that is what the writers wanted, to make it so they wouldn't make a good couple. One thing for sure, I hope they don't just forget about how Carter treated Lucy that day, whether it was lack of supervising or just plain Carter being irritable towards Lucy. I am not saying that I want to see "Carter fall to his knees and pull his hair and scream "LUCY, WHY LUCY???", (that was very funny :-P ). I guess we can all agree on the fact that the show should not just go on and make like Carter has no feelings (I'm not talking "loving" feelings either) of what happened to his student. I'm talking about the guilt and anger that anyone would feel, if they were in Carters shoes. Hope that makes sense.

-- Paula (, March 08, 2000.

And I thought I was the only one who disapproved of a Carter/Knight romance! I didn't think they should've dated because he was her supervisor and there was no real chemistry between them anyway. Also, some people think they had more of a sibling relationship, which seems more believable. I do hope the writers show Carter feeling guilt for the way he treated her, but I don't think it should go any further than that. If he does suffer a breakdown, it should be because he has internalized his feelings of loss - losing a student (Lucy)to violence, losing a friend (Gant)to suicide, losing a brother (Bobby) to leukemia - and loneliness because he has no close friends or family to lean on. Combine that with his physical suffering, we are looking at a very interesting storyline.

-- ann (, March 09, 2000.

Finally, people are talking sense! It seems like there have been so many ideas about how to deal with this storyline and many of them tend toward the overboard, melodramatic, daytime TV type of stuff. It will be nice to see Carter deal with his feelings of loss and violation, but I don't think that flaskbacks of Lucy, conversations with her mom, or having him "fall to his knees, pull his hair and scream, "LUCY, WHY LUCY?" (:))will raise ER out of its bad storyline slump. I think it would be more interesting to delve into why Carter always alienates people close to him and how, since most of his relationships are mostly physical, he has no one really close to help him in this time of need.

-- 2222 (, March 09, 2000.

I guess I just want someone -Carter- to miss Lucy as much as I did/do. I hate to think that she wasn't important to anyone.

-- Shauna (, March 09, 2000.

Well now don't get me wrong, I do indeed hope to see serious reprocussions from this entire incident in Carter's life. I'm not saying that a measure of angst would be bad; I just think the writers would be stretching it if they tied that angst solely to Carter missing Lucy.

-- Cat (, March 09, 2000.

I totally agree with Ann...Carter and Lucy were definitely more like brother and sister the way they bickered back and forth all the time. They seemed to bring out the child in each other. I think deep down he probably had more feelings for her than he let her know (not intimate feelings). I think the idea that he did not show her the respect she deserved will come out. Like when he told her mom that she was a better doctor than he ever gave her credit for. I agree with 2222 also...they need to dig into why he does not know how to have a relationship with anyone.

-- amanda (, March 09, 2000.

Apparently Carter wasn't very important to Lucy because she never even tried to ask how he was doing. It seems their relationship doesn't go any farther then teacher\student.

-- Davon (, March 09, 2000.

I CAN understand why Lucy would not have asked about how Carter was doing when she came out of surgery. She may not even have remembered that much of what happened and she was fighting for her life and could barely talk. I doubt her first thought would be "Oh yeah, how's Carter?". I have had surgery before and remember feeling very dazed and confused when coming out of anesthesia.

-- amanda (, March 09, 2000.

I agree with everything I've read so far. It would be unrealistic to have the big melodramatic scene of John missing Lucy; but I do want his acknowledgement of what happened that day to be more than a blip on the radar screen. It will be interesting to see what actually does happen. As for the Carter/Knight relationship - I think it would have been neat for them to develop a friendship along the lines of the one shared by Carol and Mark. I do agree that it going beyond that would've been stretching the credibility factor.


-- Michelle (, March 09, 2000.

Okay, I have a lot to say about this, so I hope this doesn't get too long. I understand that Carter and Lucy getting together was unrealistic because of their professional relationship, but the way their relationship went was very unrealistic too. They start getting along, become respectful, caring friends, but then they kiss, decide it's wrong, and their relationship-whether romantic or friendly- was completely cut out of the show. They DID have chemistry, they worked well together for that short time after "the good fight" until the kiss and they were entertaining to watch. What they should have done was keep Lucy with Dale and have Carter continue to be the protective teacher until Lucy discovers Dale's a jerk too.

The thing about TV is that characters are at their best (in my opinion) when there is romantic tension and hidden feelings. Once people get together, it's not as fun anymore. And the thing that didn't work with the bickering Lucy and Carter, was that they were trying to create hostility between two characters who are generally nice, caring, friendly people. Carter is known as the kind, friendly one and it doesn't work to make him a jerk. Overall, Carter was a more compassionate teacher to Lucy than Benton was to Carter, but we see Benton cares about Carter, and even though Lucy had not been there as long, Carter should miss her presence. Sorry, I'm done now.

-- Elaine (, March 09, 2000.

Sorry to add more to my previous novel, but amidst all my babbling I forgot to mention what someone said about Noah Wyle asking the writers not to put Carter and Lucy together. I did not like hearing this, mainly because I hope Noah Wyle liked having her on the show and that it was purely in the best interest of keeping reality in the show that he said something. After the make out scene, they hardly worked together. This is kind of dumb, but I really like to hear that costars are Julianna Margulies and George Clooney really seem to be. I really like both of these actors and I hope that Noah Wyle and the rest of the cast will miss Kellie Martin.

-- Elaine (, March 09, 2000.

Elaine, I agree with you. Unfortunatly I think that it is impossible to be pretty good friends with a person and not have some type of reaction (i.e. blaming yourself, missing the person etc) to their death. I think he should mourn Lucy's death personally, afterall they were friends....afterall I can't ignore all of season 5. However, I think that it could be done in a way that is not overly melodramatic and that could be true to Carter's character. Whether that is survivors guilt, guilt over the fact that they were bickering, or just not being able to get over the fact that another person in his life has died.

-- Emma (, March 09, 2000.

Lucy and Carter had a lot of scenes together in Season 5 - they worked together a lot, she was his student they were friends/colleagues/whatever. It seems really odd to me that in Season 6 up to "Be Still My Heart" they had practically NO scenes together. Why was this ? - especially if she was still his student. At the very least its bad character continuity.

-- Aisling (, March 10, 2000.

I vaguelly remember the interview with Noah Wyle on one of the morning shows a couple of eyars ago. He said that the reason he asked the writers to change the direction of his and Lucy's relationship after their "get together" was that he felt the characters (all of them) were getting too involved with each other and the show was becoming too soap-operaish.

I agreed & still do, with him. There are some work place romances. But where do you see every major person involved with another person in their respective workplace. Mark & Susan/Chuny/Cynthia/Elizabeth and Carol & Tag/Doug (hopefully again) and Benton & Jeannie/Elizabeth/Cleo Carter & Anna (though that wasn't completely reciprocated by Anna). Enough!

Kelly Martin & Noah Wyle DID NOT have the necessary chemistry. Not like Elizabeth & Mark or Carol & Doug. Even Deb would be better than Lucy. Her and Carter have more backgroun in common. I would like to see Carter with someone else from outside the show (AFTER he's recovered completely - say next season). Outside romantic involvements add interest to the show. Like Jennifer and Roxanne (I liked her) and Carla.

-- AmyE (, March 10, 2000.

Maybe so - but that's no reason for the characters of Carter and Lucy not to have any scenes together at all this season - I think they had about 40 seconds screen time together this season before "Be Still My Heart". After last season, and bearing in mind he's supposed to be her supervisor. I find it very annoying that the writers/powers that be or whoever - can just drop things like that.

-- Aisling (, March 10, 2000.

Exactly!!! That's what I'm saying. A couple or not, Carter and Lucy were a good pair (professional-wise and friendship-wise). But, no, we get a few scenes this year and then they're lying on the floor together, bleeding to death. It just doesn't follow in character development. But then I'm not a TV show writer.

-- Elaine (, March 10, 2000.

Thank you - Elaine!!

-- Aisling (, March 10, 2000.

I'm in total agreement with you Elaine. And I too hope that she's missed on the set - I'm not sure but I think I heard somewhere that some people weren't all that nice to her on the set... I just think that Lucy deserves closure - and all of her fans too :)Not dissapear as if she never exisisted.

-- Shauna (, March 10, 2000.

Alex Kingston was on Later Today a couple of weeks ago and she said that she was "stunned" at Kellie's "courage" in dealing with this storyline. She was really emotional when she talked about the storyline and how Kellie's debut on ER was shadowed by immense tragedy (Kellie's sister,Heather,died from complications due to lupus the week before she began her role on ER-Heather was 19). Kellie said on an L.A. morning show that Alex was wonderful-she (Alex) left a candle and a welcome note in Kellie's trailer when she first started. Kellie also said (in a different interview right after George Clooney left) that he was super nice as well and always gave her a kiss on the cheek every morning. Noah Wyle has said several nice things about her-not much,but then he never really talks about the rest of the cast.

Also-just because an actor requests that he/she not have a storyline with another actor does not mean that said actor dislikes the other actor.

-- Jen (, March 10, 2000.

Hi. I've never posted before, but for some reason I really wanted to add my two cents here. I agree with Jen about actors not disliking each other when they request different story lines. Just look at Benton and Elizabeth. Eriq requested an end to the interracial relationship, but as anyone who watched the Rosie show can see, Eriq and Alex are quite *chummy* =) I like Noah Wyle. He's a good actor and seems like a nice person, and I guess I just don't want him to come across as a bad guy or anything.

-- Cindy (, March 10, 2000.

Thank you Jen, I was waiting to hear that. I also heard that Kellie Martin felt like she didn't fit in like someone else said, so I was alittle worried about that, and I'm glad to hear that Noah Wyle and others said nice things about her. I wish I had seen these interviews. And I think Noah Wyle seems extrememly nice in real Rosie O'Donnell said!

-- Elaine (, March 11, 2000.

I hope no one got the impression that I thought Noah Wyle was mean! Just the oppisite. :) I still have to laugh when I remember him on Rosie - when she complained that there was no sourcrout for her hotdog - the look on Noah's face as he said, "This is embarassing", was too wonderful. :) And it's good to hear that the other cast members enjoyed Kellie Martin's presence on ER - I hope that's true anyway. It's so hard when you feel you don't fit in.

-- Shauna (, March 11, 2000.

I agree and disagree with the Lucy/Carter debate (although all of the posts are great!) I believe that Carter did have feelings for Lucy that he never really expressed because all of his relationships were solely physical. Lucy, I believe, had some feelings too, but she was still a young med student who was unsure of her surroundings. Now these feelings don't have to be strictly sexual in nature - I think they both cared about the other and had a very good relationship that could/may have stemmed into love (again, not necessarily sexual.) However, I agree that having them get together would have been too soap-opera oriented. Honestly, I enjoyed their relationship better that way - there was a little tension, but nothing over the top! A few episodes that really touched on their relationship:

-The Good Fight -Amanda Lee -The Storm I/II -All In the Family

I believe Carter will definately feel remorse over her death for a long time to come. He had a unique relationship with her that was different from all others in the past. It wasn't based on physical contact - it was emotional and intellectual. She respected him as he respected her, and although they argued frequently, I do think they really liked eachother and enjoyed the other's company! Agree? Disagree? :)

P.S. I don't think his remorse is going to have him expressing his undying love for her (Why Lucy!?!? Loved that post!) - I think it is going to be more of a quiet reflection of his times with her.

*~*Dana*~* "Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today."

-- Dana! (, March 11, 2000.

I'm going to post this here although its kind of off the subject, but has to do with the aftermath of Lucy's death. I was expecting to see more anger or disciplinary action from Kerry. She was so angry at the staff in "All in the Family". I really was expecting some people to get into trouble for the loud party. She was pretty tough on Mark for going out to dinner, and you could see that he felt bad, but that was pretty much it. Did I miss something? Thanks! Laura

-- Laura (, March 11, 2000.

I would hope that the actors were especially considerate of Kellie when she began the show-her 19 year old sister died a week before she started her role on the show.

-- Sarah (, March 11, 2000.

I have enjoyed all the posts. I was also worried when I heard Kellie Martin didn't feel like she belonged. I'm glad to know that the cast have said nice things about her and she about them. Did anyone record Alex Kingston on "Later Today"? I would love a copy if so. I'll pay you for the tape and postage.

-- kristal (, March 28, 2000.

Sarha, So sad about Kellie's sister. I don't think I'd heard that. 19? What happened?

-- Diana (, March 28, 2000.

Read about her having lupus in the "Kellie Martin on The View" question/comment. That's so sad.

-- Diana (, March 29, 2000.

Okay, first off, my fave characters on ER are/were Carter, Lucy, and Kerry. And I'm the weird one, I wanted Carter and Lucy to get together. Now, I don't think having Carter fall to his knees and scream "LUCY WHY LUCY??!!!!" is necessary, it would look incredibly ridiculous. BUT, I think something like a blunt question from (you pick the character, I choose Kerry) something like "Carter, I get the idea that you loved her (Lucy). Did you?" Carter replies, "Yeah. Yeah, I did. I wish I could have told her so." (Gosh I'm totally corny, right?)

-- Mo (, April 04, 2000.


-- Phyl (, April 04, 2000.

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