I once ask a tribal elder what freedom ment to him. He said that he used to be able to ride his horse anyplace he pleased. Now that there were so many fences he couldn't. That has stuck with me all this time. I believe he really did understand true freedom.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 05, 2000

Answers

Hi David,

Welcome !

That would truly be freedom, NO FENCES !!!

Glad you stopped by.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), March 05, 2000.

Iwish I remembered the Idian word for "hola" is it weia?

Anyway David, hello, I still think you are sane, lots of crazyness going on in these forums right now.

I myself, am going to leave it alone and come back later, after they all chill out...well maybe...coyote is wise Later my friend. Sandy

-- sandy (rstyree@overland.net), March 05, 2000.

Hi Sandy, the Salish word is Wai. It kind of sounds like wait when it's pronounced only without the t. I have been lurking and it looks to me like things are starting to settle down.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 05, 2000.

Thanks for the welcome cap.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 05, 2000.

Anytime David

As you probably know by now(see post @ ez) this where I'm hangin my hat these days.Feel free to drop by and chew the fat whenever you'd like.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), March 06, 2000.

I plan on being here for a while myself. I think this board could be a good thing if we treat one another as human beings.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 06, 2000.

Dear David, I am led to believe I am 1/8 a part of your/our family. I dunno know. Searching lineage on line , has led me to no-where. Please, can't you get your Elders to post and give information? Cherokee here, I think.

-- Trail of Tears (stillse@rching.com), March 06, 2000.

Exactly David

Except here I don't feel like the "chosen" are always looking over my shoulder.Seems more loose and less controlled,I don't have to read posts written by those that stir just for the sake of stirrin'.I know they are there but does it infringe upon me ? No.

But besides that, how ya ben doin? Well I hope.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), March 06, 2000.

wai david,

Betcha I can say it I am texan we don't like t's and talk slowwww.

-- sandy (rstyree@overland.net), March 06, 2000.

I have been doing real well. I'm looking forward to spring i'm so tired of snow. LOL

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 06, 2000.

Sandy you have probably been saying it that way all your life. LOL

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 06, 2000.

You would need to contact the tribal hq of whatever tribe or band you are from.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 06, 2000.

While I'm not part Indian, my kids are.

So I guess I'm kinda related to you in a roundabout way. :)

-- Charles Underwood Farley (chuck@u.farley), March 06, 2000.

Hello David W.--

Good to see you.

It's intimidating to have to watch your every word, isn't it? I once posted on HumptDumpty that I was grateful to the government for the successful watch with the Russians of the nuclear bombs over the CDC. The silence that greated that thought was chilling. Well, I'm still grateful. No book writer or public speaker sat in that mountain new year's eve trying to hold the world together for all of us.

On this forum I can be the wacky lady in the Pennsylvania boondocks who thinks the government did something right--and not get deleted. I lost my access to HumptyDumpty for some reason. No big deal. It was dull.

Pam

-- Pam (jpjgood@penn.com), March 06, 2000.

Why is it that the Native Indian hasn't got the same high profile amongst the politically correct brigade as blacks.

-- Sir Richard (richard.dale@unum.co.uk), March 06, 2000.

It is very simple Sir Richard.numbers! Numbers game, pure and simple, numbers.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), March 06, 2000.

Sir Richard, let me ask you a question. Have you ever been to a powwow? We look at all people as equals. No one person better than another. Our fathers gave us many laws, which they learned from their fathers. These laws were good. They told us to treat all people as they treated us; that we should never be the first to break a bargain; that it is a disgrace to tell a lie; that we should speak only the truth. We are contented to let things remain as the Great Spirit made them.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 06, 2000.

Wai Pam, nice to see you. I am hopeful that this board has settled down and we can get back to the issues of our modern day life.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 06, 2000.

I've no exposure to Amer. Indian (AI) culture, just asking a question of the liberal left in the US who seem obsessed with race, something which of course you are not, that's why I have more respect for you. You haven't politicised your racial stance, you just quietly get on with your lives it seems. From a foreigners point of view whilst we see endless documentary about black americans there is public ignorance over here of the AI. I understand there are major problems concerned with alcoholism, I would be interested to have some insight into that subject.

best regards

-- Sir Richard (richard.dale@unum.co.uk), March 06, 2000.

Wai Charles, Thankyou for dropping by.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 06, 2000.

Sir Richard, Native American people have no built in tolerance for alcohol. We become addicted to it with one drink. I would imagine there are exceptions to the rule however I haven't met any. We are now returning to our heritage and the teaching of our elders to combat this problem. Our powwows are now drug and alcohol free.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 06, 2000.

FYI, the Times-Dispatch here in Richmond ran a set of interesting articles on some of the local tribes:

'Docu mentary Genocide'

Eugen ics affected Va. law

Basically, they almost completely removed local Indians by paperwork. And it wasn't really the intent in the first place.

"Racial Integrity" laws were put in place, targetted at blacks. Because many of the "FFV" (First Families of Virginia) liked to claim heritage back to Pocahontas, an exception was made for people with a certain percentage of Indian blood.

But that didn't fly with some of the local White Supremacists, one of which was the first state Registrar. So virtually no one was allowed to claim Indian heritage, because he thought they were trying to escape the "Integrity Laws".

Anyway, some interesting reading.

-- Hoff (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), March 06, 2000.

very commendable, can't think what to suggest but I find that blue green algae (health food) is very good for alleviating the effects of booze, I expect you've tried it, but I'd give it a go, its good stuff anyway (honest) your society will be a great place if drug and alcohol free, and I include most prescription drugs

-- dick of the dale (richard.dale@unum.co.uk), March 06, 2000.

Wai David,

If you are still around would like to learn another word.

Wai is hello, howdy hola, correct? I figure you teach me a word a week,, I may have a semi vocabulary in another 5 years.

I would like to ask you about your language too, was it more spoken than written? And if it was more spoken then written who figured out the letters? Is there an alphabet?

Sorry for so many ?'s, but life is a learning experience and to learn you gotta ask.

Sandy

-- sandy (rstyree@overland.net), March 07, 2000.

Wai Sandy, my native language is spoken not written. Here is an easy word it's yayah. It means Grandmother. Nice to hear from you again.

-- David Whitelaw (dande53484@aol.com), March 07, 2000.

Wai David, but are the a's long or short.? The way i pronounce it is ya(like law no "l" though or "w") and the other part like yeah. (leaving out the a). Tell me please, don,t wanna learn a word and misprononse it(english is hard to spell too)

Sandy

-- sandy (rstyree@overland.net), March 08, 2000.

Why is it that the Native Indian hasn't got the same high profile amongst the politically correct brigade as blacks.

-- Sir Richard (richard.dale@unum.co.uk), March 06, 2000.

It is very simple Sir Richard.numbers! Numbers game, pure and simple, numbers.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), March 06, 2000.

Not quite as simple as that, Ration@l. (My lilly-white liberal friends are going to hate me for this, but...) It's one thing to enslave a few tens-of-thousands of people and integrate them into your lifestyle, even as domesticated slaves, equivalent to livestock. And Black people have been integrated into our Western culture.

It's quite another thing to "vanish" millions, decimating their cultures (plural), and shuffle the remainder off, out of sight, out of mind, to God's-forsaken Oklahoma or equivalent.

Once freed, slaves wanted to be accepted as equals in the only culture available to them. Indians, with well-developed lifestyles and beliefs, knowing they were at least the equal of Europeans, resisted enculturation and enslavement.

Although morally equally as repulsive, it is qualitatively different from the British virtually enslaving cultures on the natives' own turf.

It is apparent to modern anthropologists that most of the damage to North and South American cultures, as well as Micronesian (if not African and East Indian) was caused by diseases of civilization to which the indigenes had no resistance. An interesting question: What if cultures of the Aztec, Inca, Early Hopi, Mississippi, Iroquois and the others, had had resistance to European diseases?

An even more interesting question: Given that Indians are still being messed with---driven off treaty lands if any economicly valuable resource is found there, having sacred sites desecrated, government interference in the running of their "sovereign nations"---why, indeed, don't we hear more about that?

I think I know the answer. But I'm not out to pick a fight today.

Hallyx

"Natives who beat drums to drive off evil spirits are objects of scorn to smart Americans who blow horns to break up traffic jams." ---Mary Ellen Kelly

-- (Hallyx@aol.com), March 08, 2000.

Maybe you don't hear nothing about it is because you watch the network news.

Wai

Sandy

-- sandy (rstyree@overland.net), March 08, 2000.

you're saying they want separate development, maybe that is best, its up to them to decide their own future

best thing surely is to acquire as much land as possible

-- Sir richard (ichard.dale@unum.co.uk), March 08, 2000.

The gov't's attitude towards the Indians seems to be to say that they're sovereign nations -- when they want to leave them hanging out to dry.

But, the gov't also likes to say that they're subject to the gov't -- when they want to control how they live their lives.

Since the two conditions are mutually exclusive, it doesn't put the gov't in a very good light. Sort of like saying, "Everything you own is yours to do with as you choose. Until I want a piece of it."

-- Charles Underwood Farley (chuck@u.farley), March 08, 2000.

OK chuck if you were in power what would you do

-- sir richard (richard.dale@unum.co.uk), March 08, 2000.

What a silly question.

This is the United States of America. The PEOPLE are in power, not the government!

At least that's what they taught me in school when I was growing up.

-- Charles Underwood Farley (chuck@u.farley), March 08, 2000.

Yeah, Chuck, we were all taught a pile of patent bullshit in school.

Your two-sentence recapitulation above is precicely accurate.

Hallyx

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."---Henry Kissinger

-- (Hallyx@aol.com), March 08, 2000.

Pardon me for being subtle.

What would I do if I was "in power"?

I'd abdicate.

-- Charles Underwood Farley (chuck@u.farley), March 08, 2000.

Chuck your abdication is the best news I've heard so far on this forum (I know its a cop-out but even so).

Now since you have no view or solution that means it cannot be debated, you'll be a spammer all your life.

-- Sir Richard (richard.dale@unum.co.uk), March 09, 2000.