Please join the great American and Canadian gas out. Do not buy gas from April 7th thru April 9th. Buy all you need before these dates but nothing on or during them. Lets join together and send OPEC and TPTB a message. Thanks in advance.

-- David Whitelaw (Dande53484@aol.com), February 28, 2000

Answers

(pssttt...David, appreciate your posts, but on your subject of civility, could you please lose the all caps and the extraneous punctuation, particularly in your titles? Thanks!...)

-- don't like (being@yelled.at), February 28, 2000.

david--good idea.

don't like----BAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRFFFF TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! geesh, there are more important things to do than pick apart other people's posts. WHO SAYS ALL CAPS MEANS YOU ARE YELLING?? JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE YEARS AGO DECIDED IT WAS SO, DOESN'T MEAN IT IS. DOES IT HURT YOUR EARS?????????!!!!!! SOMETIMES PUNCTUATION AND CAPS ARE THE ONLY WAY TO DRAW ATTENTION TO INFORMATION.

-- tt (cuddluppy@aol.com), February 28, 2000.

Thanks cuddle I appreciate your support. As far as being civil goes I believe I am doing my part. LOL

-- David Whitelaw (Dande53484@aol.com), February 28, 2000.

David,

Excellent idea; thanks for the post. Your brainchild, or is there some formal organization that is sponsoring this?

An organization that should be contacted to add it to their campaigns:

enlighten@me.com), February 28, 2000.

By 4/7/00 none of us may be able to gas up even if we wanted to. ;-)

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), February 28, 2000.

tt, since it was Mr. Whitelaw who saw fit to start an entire thread on forum civility, I'm simply requesting that he follow the basic netiquette guidelines for polite behavior on the forum. It would also make his posts easier to read.

-- dont (like@the.yelling), February 28, 2000.

Sorry; that didn't work.

Sitll can't get the "link" stuff down; y'all will have to cut 'n' paste.

http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/

Thanks!

Don

-- Shimoda (enlighten@me.com), February 28, 2000.

I would love to take credit for this but actually it was my sisters brainchild.

-- David Whitelaw (Dande53484@aol.com), February 28, 2000.

My dear Mr. and or Ms. Don't, the caps and extra question marks were ment to get attention to this subject. I can see it worked or you wouldn't be on here trying to draw attention away from the subject. I do appreciate your concern even if it is in the form of a flame.

-- David Whitelaw (Dande53484@aol.com), February 28, 2000.

Check this out!

http://abcnews.go.com/local/kabc/news/24908_4301999.html

And this:

Running on Fumes Heavily hyped Gas Out sputters and stalls

April 30 came and went and so did The Great American Gas Out. Did anyone in GR care?

Not really.

In the days following the Gas Out, gas station attendants across the city indicate the gas protests' local turnout as they scratch their heads and ask "Gaswhat?"

AAA in Southern California says it didn't bother to track the protest's outcome, but doubts it did any good. Because gas sales are calculated on a weekly basis, one day isn't enough to drive the prices down, even if every car owner participated, said AAA.

And that's in California, the Gas Out's birthplace, where gas prices had soared to as high as $2 per gallon (that's premium, you know.)

Everything started in March with an email that called for the gas prices to stop inflating. "Don't buy gas on April 30," it exclaimed. The email eventually landed in the hands of "Bob & Dave," two California web designers in the market for self-promotion, who liked the idea and put it up on the net.

And so the Great American Gas Out was born.

By the time the Gas Out rolled around, it had spun into an all-out media bonanza. Everyone, from CNN to the LA Times, was touting tales of the pending gas boycott. A slew of California politicians -- from mayors to the attorney general -- even got into the act.

While the pre-Gas Out bandwagon was full of supporters, few followed through, says AAA.

Back in Michigan, gas pumps aren't telling quite so gruesome a tale. While prices at the pump have climbed from February's $.91 to April's $1.21, but it's not likely to come anywhere near $2 per gallon.

Jim Rink, spokesman for AAA Michigan, hasn't heard a Gas Out word since all the pre-boycott hullabaloo. Nothing big could have happened, he says, otherwise people would know.

Meanwhile, "Bob & David" can't get enough of boycotting -- only they've switched focus. Now, they're calling for the country to turn its nose up at Chevron gasoline for the next month and to support Ride Your Bike To Work day on Tuesday, May 18.

-- Susan Posternock

--------------------------

Thanks,

Don

-- Shimoda (enlighten@me.com), February 28, 2000.

David, I respect your posts, and it was in no way intended as a flame. Other than being unnecessarily "LOUD", writing in all capital letters is actually more difficult to read. You don't get the advantage of the visual structure of the letters that make up the word. This forum has been a terrific source of information and discussion (including your posts), and an all caps title makes it more difficult to scan titles. Thought civility was important to you, guess it's selective. No problem at all with your content.

-- Still don't (like@the.yelling), February 28, 2000.

Would you comment on HOW this is going to bring the price down? Especially since most oil companies are playing catch up now with reduced volumes in the pipe lines. So what happens a week from then and you need gas for your car to get to work? You pay the price, right? Furthermore, give me one good reason why OPEC SHOULD lower their price? They have us where the hair is short... and why they haven't wielded this massive club before is beyond me. If you want to do something to solve the problem, keep the prices up long enuff for the domestic drillers/companies to get up and running with our own production of oil. Then write your congressman re weaning this country off of oil and onto sustainable energy. Then.......sell your gas guzzling SUVs and get a car that gets 50mpg. I just don't think stamping your feet and picking up your marbles for a few days is going to do anything but make us look like worse idiots than we are.

Taz

-- Taz (Tassie123@aol.com), February 28, 2000.

Don the last one was for one day only so my sister thought a 3 day gas out would be more effective.

-- David Whitelaw (Dande53484@aol.com), February 28, 2000.

Still if you are trying to bait me into an arguement with you let me tell you right now it is not going to happen. As I said before the caps were to draw attention nothing else was ment by them. So please lets consider what we can do as a general population to bring attention to the problem.

-- David Whitelaw (Dande53484@aol.com), February 28, 2000.

Taz lets try to use a little salient thinking and imagine the loss of tax revenue for those three days for starters. The demand would drop to zero for three days and you think no one would notice. This plan will work if we can get the people in both countries to commit to it. the only way to get to the kind of people we are dealing with is through the pocket book. I think oil would have to stay sky high for our domestic drillers to risk another go at it. I also agree with alternate energy but at best it's years away. In the meantime we can either make a noise or choose to remain silent. The choice is entirely up to the individual. I for one choose to make a noise.

-- David Whitelaw (Dande53484@aol.com), February 28, 2000.

To belabor the SHOUTING issue further---"still don't" has an important point. It is physically difficult for most people to read a post that is ALL CAPS. This has been proven in ergonomic testing. So it detracts from the poster's ability to communicate when he uses CAPS.

How about a compromise? Why not just capitalize a keyword or phrase in the subject line--in this case "BRING THE PRICE OF GAS DOWN". And never CAPITALIZE every word in the body of a post (as did the hubristic and rude CPR of the now defunct Debunkers forum).

Formatting a long post into paragraphs is equally important. Why is so hard for some people to do this?

-- (nemesis@awol.com), February 28, 2000.

Well I see that the majority seem to think my title was out of line. I apologise for this. So now can we get back to the subject at hand?

-- David Whitelaw (Dande53484@aol.com), February 28, 2000.

Caps shmaps

All I know is that adbusters campaigns are better thought out than this. If you buy extra gas before or after the so-called boycott day, you do not have any impact on prices, tax revenues, profits, etc. You might as well just wave a picket sign.

Besides, maybe this is God's punishment for those who bought those monster SUV's. (joke)

-- kermit (colourmegreen@hotmail.com), February 28, 2000.

Not buying gas for a few days won't impact consumption or the price of gas. If you want to make a difference, try driving less miles. This would include mass transit, car pooling, combining trips, bicycling, walking and leaving the gas guzzlers parked.

-- Michael (m@m.m), February 28, 2000.

Hear, hear, Michael - I have two Geo Metros and I work out of the house. More than half of my errands I can do by walking. There is nothing more I can do to conserve on gasoline except preach to others and that doesn't go over well either.

-- Guy Daley (guydaley@bwn.net), February 28, 2000.

Michael is right, and this is exactly how the previous oil crisis resolved itself. People bought more efficient cars, insulated their homes, became very energy-conscious, etc. Never ceases to amaze me how history repeats itself. The losers were both the gas-guzzler owners, and then, once they got rid of their monsters, the oil producers. Looks like present-day SUV drivers and OPEC leaders have a very short memory. But maybe this kind of collective memory erases itself automatically from one generation to the next? Truly amazing.

-- JD (cogito_ergo_sum@usa.net), February 28, 2000.

Michael wrote:

"Not buying gas for a few days won't impact consumption or the price of gas. If you want to make a difference, try driving less miles. This would include mass transit, car pooling, combining trips, bicycling, walking and leaving the gas guzzlers parked.

-- Michael (m@m.m), February 28, 2000."

I agree with your attitude in making a difference, Michael. I have an econobox that I usually drive on average of 10 miles a week, if that(gotta go to the feed store from time to time). The rest of the time I use the bus or shoe leather, and I applaud you for suggesting the same.

However, I disagree with your idea that a few days without consumption will have no impact. As so many businesses operate on a razor thin margin, a few days of profit loss could be very painful, and as a result make a decent statement. Also, I feel that this could be an important first step for folks to get out of their SUVs, walk more(more exercise will also mean better health, thus being less of a burden on the medical industry; the positive possibilities are mind-boggling), take mass transit more, and ultimately, shake their addiction to cheap fuel. We've got to stop squandering oil; we need it for so many other things besides burning in our vehicles.

Peace,

Don

-- Shimoda (enlighten@me.com), February 28, 2000.

Im not trying to stray from this concept of boycotting but how many of you have heard about Priceline.com starting to sell discount gas?

Dont know all of the details but supposedly you will be able to save $.20-.25 a gallon. Priceline will absorb the loss and replace it with advertising revenue. You will have a monthly Membership dues of $3.00 and a 9 Gallon minimum for each transaction. This could start a little price war.

-- Sifting (through@the.rubble), February 28, 2000.

The way to get the price down is to reduce demand, not defer it by postponing purchases a few days. While this attempt certainly has good intentions, I don't believe that deferring your purchase will make a difference. The laws of supply and demand are a much more potent tool to bring gas prices down. Car pool, public transportation (where available), better planning of trips and less unscheduled driving would hit the oil companies where it hurts. Go for it and good luck.

-- X (X@X.com), February 28, 2000.

I really applaud those who suggest we just drive less. Unfortunately, I can't walk to do my errands, location, not health reasons; there is no mass transit, and most people I know in this area would consider it unamerican to car pool. But one thing I can do is cut down on the amount of driving I do. My total amounts to 15 miles per week max. I too think we have got to quit squandering oil. Make it a daily goal, not just 'til gas prices go down.

-- gilda (jess@listbot.com), February 28, 2000.

David, I buy 40000 gal. a year in my business and I my wife drives 126 mi. a day round trip to her job. It's rather impractical for some people who drive long distances and totally depend on fuel to make a living to waive buying gas for 3 days. And in my opinion it would affect absolutely no one except the consumer. But it's the thought that counts!

-- John Thomas (cjseed@webtv.net), February 28, 2000.

I can go along with a "gas out" easily, but the vast majority of residents of Calif., and other Western states can't do this. With the way the lay of the land is here, if you're sitting on your couch, have to get up to use the bathroom...'ya drive! Public transportation is nil to non-existant. (Yes, I do know that's a double negative) I think it's a great idea, but it will never be a go for the public.

-- Richard (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), February 28, 2000.

David--- What would be the object of this? Do you object to letting the producers of commodities try to heal themselves up after a season of disastrously low prices? Sure glad we farmers haven't been able to agree on a cartel like the oil producers. We may be going down the tubes, but at least we won't be seen as villains like OPEC. If we banded together to demand a fair return on our investments like those oil guys, America would have to stage a three-day Eat-Out, and we'd be driven to our knees with bad press. If the carnival of cheap goodies stops, then the public's mood could turn really UGLY! We might even be driven off our land and out of our homes or somethin'!

-- Ben (bcorson@dmi.net), February 28, 2000.

Let me get this straight. As a farmer you are not concerned about the price of fuel?

-- David Whitelaw (Dande53484@aol.com), February 28, 2000.

Not that anyone asked me, but those of you who are complaining about David's use of capital letters are straining at gnats. Frankly, I thought his introduction with all caps was VERY readable....now, if he did it all throughout his post, that would be a different story. But this was just to get our attention, and I feel it is very acceptable. I guess some people just like to critique others, instead of concentrating on the content of the message.

-- Jo Ann (MaJo@Michiana.com), February 28, 2000.

As a farmer I'll answer that question! Yes we are concerned about the availability of fuel and the price that we pay. But we have absolutely no leverage by any means on the price. We can't even get our commodity prices up much less the price of fuel down. We drove our tractors thru D.C.and every major city in 1977 to protest low prices and increasing banruptcies but all we got done was get the press to see and focus on our plight. When spring planting is to be done there will be no thought about a 3 day halt on fuel use. A farmer would only hurt himself more. He takes a punch and rolls with them untill he goes down for the count and then he's ready to call it quits. Drive out to the Basin country or go down to Walla Walla and they'll tell you what's happening!

-- John Thomas (cjseed@webtv.net), February 29, 2000.

John I understand the problems you farmers have. I know that the middle men make the money. But how long will you stay in business if the price of fuel goes out of sight?

-- David Whitelaw (Dande53484@aol.com), February 29, 2000.

I understand your question but you need to understand how I am trying to answer it. High fuel prices might be the straw that breaks this camels back and farmers know that. They also know there's absolutely nothing they can do about it. This would be comparable to a sit down strike or a three day walk-out of K-mart employees. It gets headlines and a smaller pay check at the end of the month. Now if you want to impact OPEC get everybody worldwide to quit using oil products for l month and then you put the pinch on them. And then you have a real made-made scenario of Y2K on a scale of 10!

-- John Thomas (cjseed@webtv.net), February 29, 2000.

in spite of the fact that you hay have bought more efficient cars and insulated your homes the effect of these economy measures would have been a long time coming. I'm willing to bet that the overall consumption of oil in the US is higher than it was at the time of the last oil crisis, so the effect of economising is probably zilch.

If oil was 10$ a barrel only recently why did OPEC let it drop so low.

-- sir richard (richard.dale@unum.co.uk), February 29, 2000.

Richard:

Lets say that I sell cocaine and want to get you hooked. What do I do? I give you some or sell it to you cheap, until oyu can't live without it. Then I jack up the price b/c I know you will beg and steal to get me my money.

Now, consider the car market. After the last oil crisis, cars became more fuel efficient. Gas prices went down and now everyone is driving these SUVs that get less than 20mpg city/highway. I'd say OPEC has gotten our society hooked on cheap gas.

BTW, what good is a "gas out" if we are all going to be waiting in line the minute its over? Boycotts work when they are marathons, not sprints. Anyways, IMO, such a boycott only hurts the mom-n-pop station who has no reserves to fall back on.

-- Freethinkr (ima@nut.com), February 29, 2000.

OPIS Alert:

2000-02-29 16:38:29 EST

***CONSUMERS FED UP - TAKING ACTION AGAINST HIGH COST OF GASOLINE

Gasoline consumers across the country are in a frenzy over recent prices of retail gasoline, claiming they want to be able to do something that would make a statement to the oil industry and those in the oil business.

Recently an e-mail was circulated country-wide, stating that on April 30, 1999, a "gas-out" was staged across Canada and the U.S. to bring the price of gasoline down. The e-mail claims that the "gas-out" actually worked.

This e-mailed message has been sent to Canadian/American consumers, to ban together for a three-day period from April 7, 2000 - April 9, 2000, with suggestions to consumers to purchase fuel before or after these dates, but not to purchase gasoline during this timeframe.

However, most of the oil industry is already in a quandary over the past month's decision from the OPEC producing nations to cut output, until a certain level of economics have been maintained.

Most recently even U.S. presidential candidates have been posed the same questions and concerns from the American public, in recent debates.

It is quite clear to most people, that the high price of crude oil has finally filtered down to the gasoline consumer where it is making everyone across the nation angry, prompting the public to take action and stage a "gas-out."

Whether or not a "gas-out" will get anyone's attention, it is statement from the consumer for someone to listen and to take action against the OPEC nation's manipulation of the U.S. market, and of consumers, for economic purposes.

Sharon L. Fielding, sfielding@ucg.com

Copyright 2000, Oil Price Information Service.

-- (OPIS@Al.ert), March 01, 2000.