When I purchased my A2E about a year ago, I read a post (not on this site) about program dial failure. Well, one year later (and about 20 rolls of film) my program dial is broken. The dial still turns somewhat, but there is no more crisp click; and lock position doesn't lock completely. Has anyone heard of this problem? Is there a solution? Has Canon acknowledged the short fall in their design?? Have they redesigned their repair parts to last?? Am I in for an expensive and long repair?

Extremely disappointed, JR

-- J. Rizzolo (rizzolojf@npt.nuwc.navy.mil), February 26, 2000

Answers

Well, to cut to the chase, you're going to have to send it to Canon. They can tell you when it will be done. If you have only shot 20 rolls of film with it in a year, it does not seem that necessary of a device considering they are fixing it for you (yes, you'll probably have to pay, but if you write a nice letter about how well you treated it you might get out of that)--even if it will be a bit of an incovenience.

This problem is well known. It can happen when you do not fully push down the locking knob on the top of the dial.

-- Chris Gillis (chris@photogenica.net), February 26, 2000.

This is a well known problem with some A2/A2E's, but my A2 was bought new in '96 and I used it until giving it to my sweetheart in '97, and she continues to enjoy this camera's absolutely trouble free performance. However, as Chris described, I always fully depressed the lock button before and DURING turning of the dial, and taught my girlfriend to do the same. Although I have read postings from others who swear they observed this button issue, I suspect that the majority of the program dial failures are related to not properly using the unlock button during operation. Aside from the fact that Canon should have better designed and/or constructed this dial and locking system, it is important to understand that mechanically it seems to employ a spring loaded tooth that, in the LOCKED position, interposes itself into a sort of spoke--the wheel can't then turn unless the button is pushed, which then retracts the tooth out of the spoke so long as the button remains pushed. If one pushes the unlock button and begins to turn the wheel...but then relaxes the button before the tooth fully clears the spoke, the wheel will likely advance but the turning spoke of the underlying wheel may tend to impose cumulative lateral shearing forces to the only partially disengaged tooth, and this will sooner or later grind down and ruin the tooth. Also, you will notice that, once the wheel is in a position other than the locked position, the wheel can now be turned without pushing the lock button, but you'll feel some resistance as it clicks from P->Av->Tv, etc. In other words, when turning the wheel through these detent positions, the overall mechanism was perhaps designed so that the spring loaded tooth should now "glide" over and through curved "ripples" in the wheel, in contrast to the single spoke or slot on the wheel that was meant to fully arrest the tooth if the latter fell into it. The point is that those "ripples" may also impose cumulative shearing or wearing forces on the tooth, and unless you think to push and maintain pressure on the button (to fully pull the tooth off of the wheel's surface) when going from P->Av->Tv etc., you may also be slowly shearing it off! Bottom line: always press the button before you intend to turn the wheel, and keep it pressed until said turning is completed.

-- kurt heintzelman (heintzelman.1@osu.edu), February 27, 2000.

Thanks for the responses.

Kurt, Despite your long explanation, bottom line is Canon designed an inferior mechanism and, over these many years, has done nothing to correct the situation, either by changing the user manual or redesigning the parts. Unfortunate. Now i must go beg Canon to pay for the fix and try to salvage my investment in this product.

PS. I read that Horizon Electronics (www.horizon-electronics.com) has come up w/ a more permanent repair using two metal screws and that even canon may be adopting this repair method themselves.

-- J. Rizzolo (rizzolojf@npt.nuwc.navy.mil), February 28, 2000.

I don't think Canon designed an inferior mechanism (as evidenced by its long-term high sales and number of satisfied users); I will concede that the command dial design is not the most user-friendly interface they could've developed. I'm pretty sure the manual says to fully depress the button any time it's moving, and you said that you knew about the issue before buying the camera. Canon's not likely to put a large investment toward fixing the design now; heard somewhere that the body's been discontinued for some time now, and that they're still just shipping out of inventory. And you won't need to beg them to fix it - just pay them. I understand your frustration, but the A2/E/5 is still a great body (I think Phil Greenspun calls it the best value in the entire EOS line). I don't think blaming Canon here is fully justified. Just my opinion...

-- Scott (bliorg@excite.com), February 28, 2000.

Neither the owner's manual nor the Magic Lantern Guide says anything about depressing the "Lock" release button when turning the dial with the exception of leaving the "L" position. Obviously Canon didn't perform adquate lifecycle testing = poorly designed mechanism. When a company encounters the same failures over and over again it usually signals the need for re-engineering. unfortunately for this body, that didn't happen. Luckily at least one repair facility (see above) has tried to improve the fix.

With that one exception... i do feel the camera is a superior product... it's the best body I've owned to date. the features cannot be beat.

-- J. Rizzolo (rizzolojf@npt.nuwc.navy.mil), February 29, 2000.

I have shot the A2E professionally now for about 5 years. After four years of shooting, my command dial went south on me just as you have described. It started getting harder and harder to turn, until I just couldn't turn the camera on. So... to make a long story short... I sent it to my camera repair outlet (Yakima Camera and Video Repair, Yakima, Washington) and they informed that this was a design flaw. They also informed me that they couldn't just replace the switch, but that the entire top of the camera (including flash tube) had to be replaced. Fortunately, my bill was only $136 total, (about $68 for the new top). So it is definitely worth getting fixed. I do have a hard time believing that it only had 20 rolls run through it. I use mine on a daily basis and have run hundreds of rolls of film through it.

Good Luck Rich

-- Richard Uhlhorn (mirror@televar.com), March 02, 2000.

This is a terrible design flaw that I learned about only a week after buying my A2e. Now I stare at that little bugger with horror every time I have to move it. In short, go into any camera repair shop and ask them what they think about the A2's. They'll roll their eyes and laugh and say "great camera, until that dial goes on ya'." It is a great camera, but Canon should take responsibility for what's clearly a flaw.

-- K. Gajdusek (karlgaj@uswest.net), March 05, 2000.

I recently purchased an EOS5 that has had the "fix" that J. Rizzolo described above. I purchased it from a photographer who was moving to Nikon digital and sold me his mint condition EOS5 and collection of lens. He was a self described "obsessive/compulsive" type who, as soon as he learned of this problem with the EOS5/A2E/A2 command dial, sent it to Horizon for the "permanent" fix. He described it to me as a rebuild with metal parts as described above. The cost was $100 (he gave me the receipt). Whether or not this is indeed a "permanent" fix remains to be seen. If the command dial goes south on me I will certainly report it here on photonet!

Dick

-- Richard Snyder (rsnyder@lc.cc.il.us), March 19, 2000.

I've owned an EOS5 for a couple of years and one of the (very few) things I don't like about this camera is combining the Program Selector and Main ON-Off functions in one dial. A person who primarily uses a given exposure mode (let's say Av or M or Dep) has to do a lot of scrolling back and forth with the Main Dial to switch off the camera between the shots, and then turn it on again and return to the desired mode. For me, it's a serious design flaw, compounded by poor engineering of the dial itself. Yes, it's easy to strip! I did that during my exotic trip, and my EOS-5 was my only body (stupid me, but I had to travel light and earlier it had performed flawlessly). At some point I happened upon a candid scene and needed to act quickly. I didn't push the darn lock button all the way and the dial broke down. Luckily, the spring (or whatever darn thingy is inside) did not jam the dial- after some playing with it I could make it turn loosely back and forth. I lost the click stops but all the connections worked perfectly and I could shoot without a problem. I may even choose not to repair it (esp. if it involves replacing the whole top half of the camera for big $$$). My workhorse body is an EOS-3 and believe me, I made darn sure before purchase that it had a separate main on-off switch.

Piotr

-- Piotr Mikolajczyk (mikolaj@pcwarsaw.waw.pl), May 05, 2000.

I recently purchased a new EOS A2 (manufactured in year 2000) despite the Comand Dial problems that are described all over the net. Why? Because I cannot afford an EOS 3 (and as an amateur, I simply could not justify the cost). I am very careful with the Dial and use it as described in this thread, but I wanted to mention that once I start shooting, I leave the camera ON for the rest of the day. The reason this does not bother me is because when the camera is ON for a full day it draws the same amount of power as it does when you meter for around 13 seconds. (this calculation is is based on the current it draws).

I also set CF 13 (disables the meter timer so that when you stop pressing the shutter, the meter and viewfinder display stop immediately, rather than draw power for an additional 6 seconds) which make a serious difference to battery usage.

Of course there is one drawback to leaving your camera ON all day: it could trip the shutter inadvertantly. But do we really care if we waste a frame here and there? I think not.

Cheers, Tom

-- Tom Beck (tbeck@oasis-technology.com), June 02, 2000.

I purchased my A2E in May 1999. By in March 2000, my command dial broke and started to free-wheel like mentioned above. I had read about the problem (at this site) and was careful most of the time, BUT the one time I was rushing and then.....

Since I live in the Bay Area, and my camera was under warranty, I took it to Horizon Electrics ( A Canon Authorized Repair Center) in Union City for repair. They promptly (within one week) repaired the command dial, and fixed it permanently. They made an adjustment so that you no longer have to push the button down while changing modes from the L to P, A, T, etc. In the event that the button moves from L, the camera is on but does not draw power.

I am extremely relieved that I no longer have to worry about breaking the dial again. The technician told me that if you bring in the camera before the warranty expires, and even if your command dial is not broken, they will repair it for you free of charge.

It's just a matter of time before the dial breaks.

-- Ron Kiaaina (rokia99@aol.com), July 24, 2000.

I bought my A2 three years ago, great camera, great photos! Then the command dial problem. $135 to Canon repair, they screwed up the built- in flash in the process, so I sent it back. This on/off malady was driving me to the point where dreaded turning the thing on, and I was using my Elan IIe more than the A2. I had two independent repair shops verify that this is design flaw with the A2, and Canon still sells these things!!! Caveat emptor, "let the buy beware" seems to be Canon's marketing stratgey. It makes me wonder about other Canon products. I finally sent it off to KEH used camera brokers, got less than $300 for it. B&H didn't even make me an offer...I'm going back to my Nikons!! My ancient 8008s has never yet let me down.

-- Walt (Rascal@vtc.net), May 20, 2001.

Any chance someone has a repair manual or digital picture of what the internal components are supposed to look like? I recently bought 2 of these A2's as parts cameras, but suspect now the only thing wrong with them is the pop-up flash and the command dial (which someone else already removed from the top plate of the camera). I cant say for sure that what is in this little jar I got are the correct parts, or all of the command dial parts! If what I have is it, no wonder the thing breaks all the time. Anyway, if you have anything useful, or any advice, please email me or post it here. Thanks. (I have digital pics of the little parts, which I could send if someone thought they could identify them: release button, dial itself, metal cap which mounts to backside of dial, retaining screw?, metal rail/lock lever, spring -which looks too big and I have no idea where it goes, very tiny metal ball, two busted plastic tips, microscopic washer made of plastic?).

-- Miles Stoddard (p67shooter@yahoo.co.uk), February 06, 2002.