This is a question I've actually had for many years.

If it is true that TPTB, or Illuminati or whatever label fits are bent on world domination and a one world .gov that we are all citizen/slaves of, then what are they waiting for?

It sure seems to me that they have the power, personnel, weaponry, etc. to just roll right over us whenever they want. Why don't they just pull out the stops, quit the fiddle-f***ing around, and do it? What do they care if it gets ugly? It's not like they'll be in the trenches themselves, risking life and limb. So what if millions of us are destroyed. Their ultimate goals will be achieved more quickly and they can then truly enjoy the fruits of their "work".

Again, what are they waiting for? I don't recall Adolph Hitler having any illusions about Democratic processes and sentiment getting in HIS way. He had a clear vision and pursued it without regard to obstacles and pants-wetting liberals. Whether that vision was flawed has no place in this question. He had the power, personnel, weaponry, etc. and used it to achieve his goals. Without hesitation.

In the face of impotent opposition, which is what we are, much as we might like to tell ourselves differently, why the stutter-stepping and seeming concern for public opinion?

It just doesn't make sense if TPTB are truly crafting the NWO. Since we're apparently insignificant to that equation, why even waste the time trying to hoodwink us into believing we are free?

(Now donning flame-retardant suit) I pose this question to see what the rest of you think about this. I do not think Hitler was a cool guy, nor do I admire his methods. I used that analogy because it was the most clear example of power deployed to achieve a "shining vision" that I could think of. (suit off)

Jimmy

-- Jimmy Splinters (inthe@dark.com), February 25, 2000

Answers

They ARE rolling right over us. Hitler had his propaganda machine; so do they.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), February 25, 2000.

Jimmy,

Maybe, just maybe, there is NOT a NWO conspiracy capable of what you fear.

-- (nemesis@awol.com), February 25, 2000.

Hitler did not complete his coup as it were until after the 1938 confiscation of guns in private hands. His anti-gun laws seem to have been the model for those in the US. I guess, after TPTB figure out how to disarm us they will do whatever they please. Until then, they can be killed, one by one, at long range -- a prospect that holds them in check.

George

-- George Valentine (georgevalentine@usa.net), February 25, 2000.

--there isn't any "one" NWO secret body, there are dozens of organizations,corporations and wealthy individuals. They are transnational, and they war with each other all the time. For example, the "war" in kosovo was primarily between the english/US/german bankers and money launderers and industrialists against the russian/serbian mafia. Turkish, albanian, and chinese interests were involved as well. It's just money. It was for control of money routes, drug routes, human slavery routes, some really huge mining complexes, and some oil. It had nothing to do with any "humanitarian" issues. Our troops are willing dupes, just follow orders. Same as the other sides troops, they all just follow orders for the puppet masters.

-- conspiracyfreek (look@undertherocks.followthemoney), February 25, 2000.

Good question.

From a Christian perspective, the evil controlling globalists( to be distinguished from the merely well meaning who think it would be better for us all to be unified) are controlled/influenced by satan, and can only emerge as God raises up rulers and brings down rulers. I am sure they would like to "go for it" but believe there is a restraint from the Lord until "the appointed time".

Also, some Christians, myself included, believe that that scripture reference to things being similar to the days of Noah before the Lord returns, is a reference to the unique occurence of Nephilim(fallen evil angels)who appeared as aliens and mated with earth women to form a hybrid race of giants during Noah's pre-flood lifetime, and the wickedness of man was so great God had to destroy them all. I have read some speculation that only Noah's bloodline was still pure at that time, but it is only speculation.

I believe prophecies of a global government and economic system will be fulfilled along with supernatural signs and wonders "to decieve even the every elect", and the current reemergence of UFO's is an indication that we are heading into that time. What part these aliens will play in the scenario is not clear, but I would assume that hybrids may emerge soon, if indeed they are not already functioning, and be part of the global takeover, and win people over easily with miraculous supernatural displays of some kind. At any rate, to answer your question simply, the takeover won't happen until God lets it happen, because Satan's freedom is limited by what God allows, and that is the only reason it is lagging.

This is where all those heavy discussions start about why God allows Satan to do anything, and why there is evil, and the book of Job and the role of trials in our lives, etc etc etc, so I think I'll sign off!

-- thinking (about@the.future), February 25, 2000.

Mr. Splinters

It's a good question. One thing that stops any Powers That Be from just seizing power is that their not supposed to exist. "Clinton isn't really signing away our sovreigninty, that's just the conspirasy nuts talking". So what happens if proof of the conspiracy suddenly kicks in our door? Well, for one thing, 70,000,000 gun owners in the US now know who to shoot at. Do you want 70,000,000 pissed off Americans gunning for you? Who would?

Secondly, the muscle that President Commie has been using world wide, the US. armed forces, still believe in the rank and file that they are carrying out constitutional orders, and in fact still swear to protect the Constitution when they graduate boot camp. Will they follow unconstitutional orders? Don't bet on it. Same goes for the cop on the beat I bet.

Third, all the fighting that would result form an open power grab is going to destroy things. If lot's of stuff get's destroyed then chances are some of it will be their's (TPTB) or will belong to people who buy stuff from them. Why risk that when the mass brain washing is going along so nicely? America is literally Fat, Dumb and Happy. But like Admiral Yamato found out, you don't want to awaken the sleeping giant.

If you have the media in your pocket and everyone spends at least three hours a day staring at the stupid ray and taking it in (but NOT thinking about it. TV moves on to the next topic too fast for that.) you hold the reigns of popular opinion. And popular preception. For example, what did you, Mr. Splinters, think about all the explosive new evidence that keeps getting turned up in the Waco wrongful death suit. How do you veiw the governments credibility now that they have been caught lying red handed? What's that? You never heard anything about it?

See what I mean?

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.2all), February 25, 2000.

Thinking, I am pretty much in agreement with you. I think Nazi Germany was a warm up for the Big One. However, I may be the only Pre- Trib Rapture believer left and don't think the PTB(with the Beast at the top) will be able to take over until that event occurs. Before rollover I thought it possible that Y2K would make it possible for the Beast to implement an entirely new system. Still possible. It WILL build up to the Trib. Wouldn't dream of predicting when, though.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 25, 2000.

A fully subjegated(sp?) nation is not as wealthy as one where the people think they have a chance to better themselves if they buy into TPTB. Money is what is running things, and I think that, unlike Hitler, the current Powers like playing mind games from behind the scenes. An all out war would rock their nice little boat, which is floating mostly in the direction they want, so they only get out the paddles if something pushes them too far off course. Why bother with alerting the sheeple if they don't need to? Also, the sheeple do have power- the power of numbers, the power to go on strike and loose money for TPTB, and yes, the power of guns, though I do not believe that is their greatest weapon by far. We are a SLIGHTLY more educated population, and to gain the maximum benifit, TPTB make occasional consessions.

For real sheep, the meat tasts better if there isn't alot of adrenaline in the system, and if you get a big enough herd a stampede can be a dangerous thing. TPTB are comfortable, just like the rest of us. They won't openly show their power if they don't have to. Why should they? On the other hand, they will continue to push for less power for the people, low wages, low worker saftey, and profits comming before all else.

Also, I agree that there are more than one major player, and they bicker among themselves, which is part of what gives the rest of us a chance.

Ah, my own masters are calling. Back to work....

-- Tania Baildon (tbaildon@yahoo.com), February 25, 2000.

eyes_open,

I received the news of the lying and cover ups at Waco without surprise. Just another spin campaign that got out of control. At this point in my education (life), I am no longer astonished by the depths of the degradation our "leaders" aspire to.

I used to think that we were all human underneath it all, no matter our position in life. We would still go home at night to our wives and kids and we would love them and care about the world we bequeath to them. I am now of the belief that we all STARTED OUT as humans, but some of us have given our hearts to the one who turns them to stone.

Jimmy

-- Jimmy Splinters (inthe@dark.com), February 25, 2000.

canthappen,

You're not the only one. I also have been attempting to resolve current events with Revelation prophecy and had considered the possibility that Y2K was a precursor to the Rapture and Tribulation. While that may be true, I would not be so bold as to attempt a date prediction. Only God Himself knows.

Jimmy

-- Jimmy Splinters (inthe@dark.com), February 25, 2000.

Go Tania, great post! Your analogies are dead on.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 25, 2000.

Personally, I know of no organized religion, Christain or otherwise, that is even close to teaching the true meaning of Christ's work. I have read only one single book that I believe approaches it and that is, "The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ", transcribed by Levi.

Jimmy

-- Jimmy Splinters (inthe@dark.com), February 25, 2000.

Jimmy, you place that New Age garbage above the Holy Bible?

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 25, 2000.

Jimmy, If Jesus is not the only way according to the HOLY SCRIPTURES, then the teaching is corrupt! "The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ", transcribed by Levi. Jimmy ... This book is NEW AGE ... I'm sure you can get Shirley McLaine to endorse it but not Billy Graham, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindol, James Kennedy, Raul Riese, Greg Lori, Chuck Smith, Jerry Fawell, etc. Get away from these kind of writings and look more at the kind of publications that come from Moody Press, Zondervan, Word Publishing. May you zeal for GOD's truth be revealed by HIS Spirit and not the counterfeit spirit of this world. S. BRyan G III, Chaplain

-- SB Ryan G III (sbrg3@juno.com), February 25, 2000.

I've done a lot of reading, researching and thinking about the same subject. So much of what I have come across seems to point in the direction of a carefully crafted direction we (U.S.) are being molded towards.

Quite a bit of effort and money has gone into keeping secrets from the general public, in addition to the media having been groomed to mold and re-direct our thoughts and feelings for several decades.

We, the people are a 'resource' to be taken advantage of. We are seen as pre-adolescent in our mental and emotional capabilities, but we have much to offer in the way of economic capacity, as long as we can be contained and thinned out in a reasonable manner.

When the time is right there will be *THE PROBLEM*, followed by *THE REACTION*, culminating in *THE SOLUTION*. This will create a non- combative environment for the total usurpation of our individual rights willing surrendered. The need for revolution will be thusly contained for an unknown period of time, giving TPTB more of a stronghold in control.

Now, we all know that no civilization has EVER simply maintained an indefinite status quo. TPTB cannot alter the fact that we live through cycles.

If you were to accept the historical models from "The Fourth Turning" by Strauss and Howe, you would recognize we, as a country, are in an unraveling mode, as we speak ,and are preparing to go into a full blown crisis mode...once again, for the umpteenth time...followed by a High and then an Awakening.

TPTB will either retreat or cease to exist for a period during the upcoming cycles. The generation after the next will once again forget what happened in the past and history will repeat.

Sounds like an epic novel. Don'tcha just love it?

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), February 25, 2000.

Jimmy, you are right about organized religion, though. Don't go looking to liars and apostates like Graham, Falwell, Stanley, etc. either. A good ol' KJV Bible is all you need.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 25, 2000.

I guess People, that believe in the "Virgin"Mary,Jesus is God and all that other Hocus Pocus,written by People that thought the Earth is flat,cannot be helped.Their Superstitions were pounded in to them at a very early Age.If You really want to know,were You are going to end up after Death,look around,the Samples are everywhere.It's quite comforting to me,to know, that after my Death,there is Peace,and not some stupid eternal Job,waiting for me,(like ST PETER at the"Pearly Gate"),without ever getting a Raise or Promotion.BTW that same goes for all the "OTHER"Religions.Once Your Batteries are dead,Your gone,Baby,to the Recycle Bin.

-- Blessed (my@own.thoughts), February 25, 2000.

Hey Jimmy,

I wonder the same thing, why TPTB just don't do it. I think maybe it might be because they are a greedy, and a selfish lot. Power and themselves are more important to them than anything. They are not doing anything because they think they will survive the pole shift, and most of us cattle will die, but their caviar and crackers will eventually run out and they will have to eat bugs and dead trees like the rest of the survivors. Will they be able to do that? I doubt it... they will resort to eating each other, whereby the most selfish will win. What they will win I have no idea, maybe a nice warm place in Hell?

-- salene (salene814@hotmail.com), February 25, 2000.

Have you ever took a serious look at the history of "King James"? the man who rewrote your bible to reflect his perverted cowardly outlook on life? Truly a disgusting man! if divine revelation comes through people such as that Ill pass.

Goddess help us all

-- Pagan One (not@today.nope), February 25, 2000.

A couple of you seemed to have a problem with the book I mentioned, "The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ", terming it New Age.

In this context, what does New Age mean and why should it produce the knee-jerk reaction of dismissing it out of hand? Is the concept of reincarnation so outside the realm of possibility. To me, it makes a lot more sense than the single-life idea.

Additionally, the main point I take from the Bible (KJV) and the aforementioned book is that Jesus showed us the Way to achieve immortality and Heaven. In this book, He says that what He has done, all men can do and what he is become, all men shall be. That seems to place the entire responsibility of our salvation squarely on our own shoulders, exactly where I believe it should be. Belief in God is one thing, which from my reading of the KJV Bible is all we need to be saved. I'm sorry, but I either misunderstand what "belief in God" really is, or there's gonna be a whole lot of people in Heaven that I wouldn't wanna be caught dead with. (pun intended ;-)

BTW, it is so refreshing to be able to openly discuss topics such as this without being called a nut or religious fanatic. I may certainly have tendencies toward the former, but a fanatic I ain't. Thank you ALL for this board and the chance to finally discuss the real issues.

Jimmy

Jimmy

-- Jimmy Splinters (inthe@dark.com), February 25, 2000.

Canhappen, I suppose you go for the BLAB IT AND GRAB IT CROWD like copeland, hinn, hagan, tilton, lee, Capps, Peale... it's too bad... you'll end up in depair and robbed of the real joy... but again the Word tells us that many will be deceived in the last days... I guess your right though in one sense, Strange enough as it is, none of the men like Graham, Stanley, Kennedy have voted for the present Clinton regime. And just to give you the benefit of doubt, if you are not one of those Blab It and Grab It followers, what is the cult you come from...the name of the denomination or Religious Science organization?

-- SB Ryan G III (sbrg3@juno.com), February 25, 2000.

Blessed,

Physics 101 - Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It just changes form.

Jimmy

-- Jimmy Splinters (inthe@dark.com), February 25, 2000.

As in atoms=matter=atoms?

-- M (?@?.?), February 25, 2000.

TPTB have to get everybody "plugged in". Beware of do-gooders giving out computers. It all begins and ends with the mandatory implant based on the 666 encoded UPC & EAN product (people) marking codes.

-- A Regular (cantletyoutriangulatemy@position.com), February 25, 2000.

SBRyan, no cult, no denom, no man, no one but Jesus Christ. Just never seen His Words outside of the KJV. Certainly not from any existing preacher of this day or past.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 25, 2000.

Pagan, you just 'ad hominem' your little heart out. I don't care if King James was a flaming queer and it has never been proven anyway. It is irrelevant. He wasn't the one who did the translation. And, BTW, I Cor. 6:9-11.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 25, 2000.

SBRyan, I wonder if you might have time to do a little something for me, if you have time. It might help me a lot. Could you compose a list of the people in the Bible that Jesus picked out and saved and a contrasting list of those he condemned and then compare it to our present time. Unless the comparison is irrelevant in your opinion. If times are different from Jesus' day could you tell me how and when they changed? Thanks, Kyle.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 25, 2000.

Just my $.02 worth Jimmy . I don't think TPTB would EVER want the sheeple to smell the blood . Like real sheep , even half wits can figure that they may be next and stampede .

No , the quiet way with mind control , dumbing down and senseless cartoons , soap operas and juicy sex tidbits in the press will keep all looking DOWN for grass (jobs/food/survival) even as they shear us and turn our mentally challenged leaders toward the final slaughter pens of world war and the police state . Should happen soon . Eagle

-- Hal Walker (e999eagle@FREEWWWEB.COM), February 25, 2000.

Perhaps TBTB is really the American Trial Lawyer's Association. They're quite content within how things are running right now; why change?

-- E. H. Porter (E.H. Porter@just wondering.about it), February 25, 2000.

Strange enough as it is, none of the men like Graham, Stanley, Kennedy have voted for the present Clinton regime.

-- SB Ryan G III (sbrg3@juno.com), February 25, 2000.

Hey Father SB: if you think God is a Democrat or a Republican, I got news for ya.

-- (@ .), February 25, 2000.

italics off

-- A (A@AisA.com), February 25, 2000.

What's stopping the TPTB? I'm under the impression they're in the mode of full speed ahead!

The best slaves are the ones who THINK they're free.

-- Patriot (taxslave@webtv.net), February 25, 2000.

Woa, canthappen, I have a bible and I looked up the quote you refferred to me about "lawsuits before Pagans" I am not a fornicator nor an idolator nor adulterous (I am effeminate, being a woman, is this a sin?) I am not a sodomite nor a drunkard or evil toungued covetous or greedy. look buddy, the "christian" religion took away the religion of my ancestors not because christianity is right but because it is exceedingly intolerant. my great great great grandparents were slaughtered and tortured along with millions of their peers and their children and grandchildren tortured and threatened until they data dumped their beloved Gods and Goddesses and "accepted" christ (a god so potent he couldnt even save himself) as their lord and savior. it says right in your beloved bible that god is a jealous god, if he runs, rules, and is omnipotent in this world what the f#*k does he have to be jealous of???? I have no doubt in my mind that you will dismiss my musings as being delusional or some such other crap but at least I have the ova to question what I am told instead of dogmatically clinging to some outdated mind numbing piece of literature just because mommy and daddy said it was truth and go out into the big scary world and search for the real truth. God (if you must use that label/name) is the sum total of all that is. pure and simple. not out there or up their but within and without and all inclusive of everything that exsists in this universe. nothing and noone is more or less important than anything else. I know you dont hear me, but this is my truth and it is every bit as valid as yours.

ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun, ad homineun.

Goddess bless us all, Pagan One

-- Pagan One (not@today.nope), February 26, 2000.

Kyle, Of course...the list is quoted in John 3:16 - 17... and just to follow-up a bit more on those Jesus condemned... Paraphrased from verse 17, we are told the HE came not to condemn...why? becauise the world was already condemned... HE came that the world might be saved... Jesus chose all those who would come to HIM and for the rest HE did not condemn, for they did it themselves.

See ya somewhere else Kyle, this thread is depressing with all the smoke.

-- S BRyan G III (sbrg3@juno.com), February 26, 2000.

Reading over this thread, i feel compelled to re-iterate my original concluson from 20 years ago, i.e. Christians tend to talk a lot of bullshit about most any topic that comes along!

That being said, and on the topic of TPTB, Ever since humans have created social structures which enable a small number of people to lord it over the rest of us, we've had pretty much the same problems. Even though material conditions for those of us in the cushy countries are excellent by historical standards, this is mostly a by-product of the cravenly materialistic world which TPTB have deigned to create, primarily for their own benefit.

It is a Conservative fallacy to think that TPTB are about to make things nasty....in fact, they already have. It's just that those of us who have computers and education are amongst the "lucky" 1/8th who are the designated mid-level drones for their operation.

By "They", I don't mean to imply that this is a conspiracy; it is merely the machinations of individuals who are enculturated towards maximisation of their own power at the expense of others. the general outline of a power hierarchy is unchanged for eons, it is only the personnel who change. The TPTB are not itching to change everything, they like it pretty much the way it is. Totalitarianism is not necessary to serve their nefarious purposes, Democratic Capitalism works just fine. For them.

-- number six (#@#.com), February 26, 2000.

Pagan, I won't argue with you anymore, except to say you completely missed my point in quoting that scripture.

See ya around, SBRyan. Looks like this thread is dead. I should have kept my mouth shut in the first place. I broke my own rule about getting into discussions like this.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 26, 2000.