See what you think! Of course it could just be a Dubya supporter. Brian will take care of this because I have to go.

Ol George

Best wishes,,,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), February 24, 2000

Answers

What I think, Z, is that you soiled yourself by bailing out of that thread in order to start a new one for the sole puprpose of name calling.

-- rocky (rknolls@no.spam), February 24, 2000.

Thanks, Z1X4Y7, for the invitation. I feel like I've just finished a "scavenger hunt" by following all the links and reading all the replies. Seems we have a lot of folk with ruffled feathers today.

Mumsie's post said it all. Finis.

-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.XNet), February 24, 2000.

I posted this as a separate post earlier but it was immediately censored by the TB2000 Big Brother. My question was "what's wrong with opposing interracial dating?"

Speaking as a black man, a veteran of the civil rights struggles of the sixties, I can tell you white liberals that are all in a tizzy because some Southern Baptist school opposes interracial dating, that I certainly do not want to see my daughters marry white boys. There's nothing wrong with white boys but after all the suffering and struggles we blacks went through to achieve equality for our race, why should we throw it all away by mixing our race with other races? How can we have diversity if we're all one tan race?

-- marcus garvey (skitch@hero.com), February 24, 2000.

markus,

I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but diversity is accomplished thru our personalities. Race, religion, economic background and the such only contribute to the way we view life.

We are as diverse as "we choose" to be.

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), February 24, 2000.

I disagree, Michael. Each race has different things to offer. If we destroy racial integrity (what's left of it), we end up with a boring racial tapioca pudding. Different races create different cultures; different races and different cultures create diversity.

-- Marcus (skitch@hero.com), February 24, 2000.

And diversity, of course, is better than slavery and genocide. Sure. Blessed diversity! I am sure Adam and Eve were diverse. Oh, no? Then who invented it? The Apes, that's right!

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 24, 2000.

Diversity is nothing more than reverse racism. Keep that black race pure in the hope that we can overcome and kill the white man. I am white and I would marry a black woman in a heartbeat if she was the one for me. Don't forget Moses.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 24, 2000.

Marcus,

I respect that it is your right to express and teach values to your children. Having come in on this thread, and not reading the Nazi link, my question is what does a school have to do with dating? Doesn't that happen after school, under the parent's watchful eye, anyway? Unless parents choose this private school cause it reinforces their values. But that should have been clear prior to enrollment.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), February 24, 2000.

How about wild drunken orgies with asians, blacks, whites, hispanics, and anybody else, all squirting body fluids every which way. What beautiful babies could be made! How's that for inter-racial dating, you like it?

-- INever (inevercheckmy@onebox.com), February 24, 2000.

I don't know if there are any KKK, skinheads, or white supremacists on this board. If you are then kiss my ass. Marcus, I hope you aren't the black equivalent. People are people...period. Diversity my ass. Are you going to tell me that culture rules over love? If so, you seem to be the same as the slavemasters of the past.

-- canthappen (n@ysayer.com), February 24, 2000.

If the black race disappears through intermixing with whites, it makes all our struggles and suffering pointless. I don't know if white people can understand this. Why fight so long and hard to have the black race accepted as worthy of equal respect and then turn around and destroy the black race through intermarriage with other races?

-- marcus (skitch@hero.com), February 24, 2000.

INever,

As much as your parties sound like a blast, too much of a "crapshoot" for this kid.

I'm in the "better safe than sorry" mode of my life.

Enjoy, doesn't last forever. Roll the Dice, your call!

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), February 24, 2000.

Actually, i mix it up just one (maybe 2:) at a time....asian, spanish, white, i love 'em all!!! (safely, though!)

-- INever (inevercheckmy@onebox.com), February 24, 2000.

Marcus, I hate to be a name caller, but what's wrong with opposing interracial marriage is that it is opposing a couple's civil rights.

I'm not going to call you a dickhead, but I thought about it.

-- jumpoff joe a.k.a. Al K. Lloyd (jumpoff@ekoweb.net), February 24, 2000.

marcus,

Go back to this link, more interesting input:

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002e00

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), February 24, 2000.

marcus is right. Common sense. Z1X4Y7, aren't you the same individual who once (several months ago) stated how excited you were at the notion of DNA technology being made available which would allow people to choose the color of their children's hair and eyes? Build-a- baby? Now complaining about 'Nazis'? Hmmmmmmmmm

My apologies if I have confused you with another. Tsk, tsk if I have not.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), February 24, 2000.

Some of you are trying to put words in my mouth, which is just another way of trying to manipulate people into thinking the way you want them to. I don't mean that people should not be legally allowed to marry from different races, I mean that personally I don't think it's good for them nor for the races they are part of. If they want to do it, that's their business but it doesn't mean I have to approve of it.

-- marcus (skitch@hero.com), February 24, 2000.

Forgive me Jerk Off Joe, but I don't think marcus wants to make it a 'law'. He has the 'right' to raise his children any way he wants, does he not?

-another 'save the world' whimpering liberal-

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), February 24, 2000.

Gentlemen,

Upon reading the various postings in reply to the infamous "Z"'s racial remark. I find that so far...I alone of you all have some expeience with which to converse upon this subject.

The bottom line is CHARATER of said persons involved. NOT color...BUT CHARATER!

I am half white, half Cherokee.. My X was/is German. My two daughter-in laws are ( One Tex Mex and Black). My oldest son nd his mexican wif are togeather and are happy! That is what counts! Nothing else counts, but that!

My middle son and his wife are seperated...And he is runnng around with the lowest, sorriest people and women he can find. It is just, by an extreem accident, that has he has chosen a minority (racially) to dive into with his sorrows and self destructive urges.

No...none of you know the worry and heart break. Pray to which ever God you believe in that you do not.

When we destroy ourslves people...It wil be from with-in. And it will be over the single most insignificant detail of color!

36 years ago, my fox hole buddy, my patrol member...The one person who I depended upon when things "Dilled"! Took 37 rounds saving my worthless hide! When he did it, I asked him why? All my dying friend aked of me, was when I took a drinke...Take one for him! I to day, still ask myself why? Why!

You see... My friend Tommy was a BLACK man.. And the very best man who has ever lived!

Well...Tonight I am having that drink..Actually two or three times two.. or today is the aniversity. And I still miss my friend! And I still do not know why? And I see we are all still calling each other names. And w are still, none of ralizing...IT is the content of the person (man/ or woman) NOt the shade of their skin.

My friend jumped up from his hiding place. To draw "Charlie's attention away from me ( My rifle had jammed). Tommy knew that he'd take hits! he was a pro, just as I was. But he did it! To save his friend!

So Mr. Z...I do so hope that there is a plac for you (right beside me ) in that hot place. As for my fiend, he is up there some where..

Just the passing rant from an old man in sorrow both for a lost friend.And a bereived son. Just so tired of this Bull S... about there beeing a difference between AMERICANS! We are Americans! The most hated nation in the world! But they wo't destroy us...We'll do it to ourselves.

I truely must be getting old...For I have said more about myslef, then I have for over thirty years.

"As for me...I shall finish the Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), February 24, 2000.

Shakey -- **HUG**

-- (too@home.now), February 24, 2000.

Shakey,

Thanks for "opening up" so to speak. Friends are friends, I'm of the belief you will "catch up" with those that go before us.

I hope I'm right and you get a chance to say "Thanks".

-- Michael (michaelteever@buffalo.com), February 24, 2000.

Shakey, take this, please, my fast search, offering. Thank you, http://www.cr.nps.gov/worldheritage/liberty.htm

-- Fellow (Hum@n.com), February 24, 2000.

Shakey,

>I am half white, half Cherokee..<

I knew that we had something in common Sir.

I am a 50/50 mix of Cherokee and imported German myself.

To absent Comrades.

I lost some very close friends over there myself, although I was in the B-52s, not on the ground as you were.

Take care Sir, and down one more for those who have gone before us.

S.O.B.

-- sweetolebob (buffgun@hotmail.com), February 24, 2000.

I appreciate your comments, Shakey and hope things work out with your son. I also appreciate your loyalty to the man who saved your life and your emphasis on character. The thing is, none of what you said changes the fact that I want my black kids to have black kids and I want the black race to continue to grow and prosper and I want white parents to have white kids whose race will grow and prosper. I don't want them to live in some kind of blended one-race world. My people have fought too long and hard to have it all end up meaningless.

-- marcus (skitch@hero.com), February 24, 2000.

Marcus, you said, "Different races create different cultures; different races and different cultures create diversity..

I don't think you are very aware of your own racial diversity. Go visit Belize, the Caribean coast of Costa Rica, Venezuela. These places, among many others, demonstrate that Blacks don't have what you consider "black" culture just because of their skin color.

Consider Peru; the president is of Japanese heritage. Does that mean he's not a part of Peru's culture? I think not. Peru, and many other south american countries have had a huge influx of people from other areas of the world. If you visit there, you will find that the culture does not follow racial lines.

Are you really a black racist? Or are you a whitie playing this role to convince other racists that their attitude is somehow acceptable?

-- jumpoff joe a.k.a. Al K. Lloyd (jumpoff@ekoweb.net), February 24, 2000.

I think preferences are okay. I prefer certain physical traits in my spouse, too.

My question for you, Marcus, is whether your kids are allowed to make their own choice on this? I realize you'll teach them a certain way, and they'll no doubt tend to share your opinions. But if they don't end up sharing your view when they decide to choose their spouse one day, is that a moral lapse in your view, or just a matter of their preference?

-- S. Kohl (kohl@hcpd.com), February 24, 2000.

Thanks Shakey. We think you are a great guy. Do you really have a bunker?

-- give me (Vanilla@and Chocolate.swirled), February 24, 2000.

If my girls marry white boys, it's not some kind of moral lapse. I think it would be something that is harmful to their racial heritage in the long run and I don't want them to do it. I don't see anything bad about people of one race wanting to maintain that race. I am a black person, that's what I am, part of the black cultural history. If I happened to be Jewish I would most likely want my children to marry Jews, or Chinese to marry Chinese. This is just common sense to me. I honestly think people who are so obsessed with proving how unbiased they are, are usually white people loaded with some weird kind of guilt. I don't mean this as an insult, just something I see.

-- marcus (skitch@hero.com), February 24, 2000.

Marcus,

Something else for you to think about, and partially just to rattle your cage a bit :)

Hybrid vigor! While generally applied to plants, it would be reasonable to assume that "mixing up" the genes of two human genepools would result in a superior offspring to either of them if left pure. While I don't want to argue your philosophy (to each his own IMHO) perhaps the best thing you could do *for your kids* is to intermarry with the most *diverse* person from yourself you could find.

Regards,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 24, 2000.

I think that is fine. And your kids will probably share your views. It wouldn't be an easy path marrying interracially, anyway. I'm glad you aren't advocating mandating your opinion (which I don't think is a bad opinion as an opinion, though I don't agree). That is what would bother me.

I don't feel the slightest bit guilty for anything I haven't done myself, either, but I hope that doesn't offend you or make you feel I don't care about what your race has suffered/suffers.

I do feel great anguish at the suffering I know is going on in this world, even the suffering brought on people by themselves. It is always worse when the sufferer is innocent, furthermore. I'm afraid that for me, the unborn, and not anyone else, have the corner on the market in that respect, for they truly have no voice or power. Yet powerful people want them dead (I'm using the word "power" to mean the ability to impose your will on someone else without their consent--and with the caveat that not all power is used for evil).

I try not to think about the suffering going on unless I can see something I can do that will help in some way. Which I often do see, which is nice for me :-). (I recently helped a 14-year old avoid an abortion--everyone is really happy about that now, but it was tense for a while)

-- S. Kohl (kohl@hcpd.com), February 24, 2000.

What the hell ever happened to the HUMAN race?

Isn't THAT the one that counts?

Ever see that old Star Treck where they found a planet with a race war raging? One race was black on the left and white on the right. The other race was black on the right and white on the left. They hated each other because of that.

-- Charles Underwood Farley (chuck@u.farley), February 24, 2000.

It's getting late and I'm headed for bed. Thanks for considering my opinions, everyone. Just remember that it's possible to prefer to associate with members of your own race without hating people of another race, and there's nothing wrong with preferring to be around people of your own race. In fact, it's the natural thing to do.

-- marcus (skitch@hero.net), February 25, 2000.

Charles,

Yeah, I remember that Star Trek. It turned my STOMACH to see those "white on the lefters" thinking they were as good as the "white on the righters". D*mn Hollywood, trying to impose their "values" on me.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 25, 2000.

Marcus' comments brought a smile to my face. While on vacation in the Bahamas, we became friends with an interracial couple from Virginia, who had been married for 20 years. I can still remember the lady doing an imitation of her dad's facial expressions and voice when she announced that she was marrying a white guy she met at church. LOL, she should have been a comedienne. Don't jump all over the man. Most dads want their daughters to marry a guy like just like dad. That's not a sin, just a preference. Besides, where I live, a mixed marriage isn't between the races. It's a Browns fan marrying a Steeler fan. (Now there's a match that can cause a little warfare!)

-- Daisy Jane (deeekstrand@access1.com), February 25, 2000.

My dear sirs (and Ladies), After watching (and reading) the many posts. I am still disturbed. I still do not see "We the people...."! If you do not see that missing part, Then I have failed, my friend has failed.

And this one time... The only time (saving for my children) that I have ever allowed that my life be exposed to those I do not know personaly.

It all Will have been lost! we are all Americans...It does not matter to the rest of the world that we come in different colors... We are Americans! The Great Saten! We are called...Great Saten? The world has forgotten just what a "Great Saten" we Can Be.

I weary this eve of the diatribe I have been witness to... We are AMERICANS! The meanest of all the tribes that God has seen fit to allow to trod this planet!

And by all that is holy! We shall trod this soil of ours untill the last days!

"As for me....I shall finish the Game"!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~

-- shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), February 25, 2000.

Marcus,

Just as personal preferences apply to NONracial characteristics (some men like blondes, some brunetes, some like skinny women, some like shapely women, some like long curly hair, some like short straight hair, you know what I mean), I think it's possible for people to "prefer" others based on skin color (just another physical attribute) without it being "racisim".

Unfortunately, it seems that MOST of the time a skin color "preference" IS based on racisim.

Years ago I had a friend who was white, with a black wife. They were both famous (still are). His name is Scott Ross and his wife is Nedra Ross. He's with CBN.

He was a disk jocky and his wifes' color didn't mean much to anyone until they moved to the South to work with CBN back in the 1960s. Then they got death threats etc. A lot of real jerks hated them.

If those two people loved each other and chose to marry, what business is it of ANYONE ELSE what they LOOK LIKE???

Unfortunately there is a thin line between liking to be with someone because you like the way they look, and HATING someone because of the way they look.

If you want to marry a woman and part of the attraction is the color of her skin, then more power to you. But I'd say the same thing to you regardless of whether or not you both had the SAME color skin.

But if you SHUN someone because of the color of their skin, I feel sorry for you, because you are being driven by bigotry rather than attraction.

Maybe that seems simplistic to you, but I've seen too much hatred in my years.

I am no "liberal" either by the way, in case anyone gets the wrong idea. I am a died in the wool Republican conservative. My first choice for Pres would be A. Keyes, my second choice G. Bush.

I respect your right to associate with whoever you want to associate with, but I also reserve for myself the right to argue against racisim.

As to God having created "races", I think that He created the HUMAN race. Cosmetic differences caused by generation after generation living in different climates are a pretty sad excuse for feeling "different". People in Africa, India, and Austraila have dark skin, but they developed it over the generations living in climates where it protected them from the local environment. People living in other environments developed light skin for the same reason.

Who's to say what color skin their COMMON great-great-great-great- grandparents had?

Who CARES!

-- Charles Underwood Farley (chuck@u.farley), February 25, 2000.

oh yeah, pretend that the BJU deal is all about mixed dating. Deny this if you can, it is off their own server, link included. Hope the SHRUB is counting on the Catholic vote.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.bju.edu/faith/vol9num6/movement.html

Romanism is a pagan counterfeit of the Christian religion, ancient paganism and idolatry, claiming to be the church which Christ founded. While the other groups and denominations have differed historically on questions of scriptural interpretation, their common origin is biblical. Romanism is a religion of works. Protestantism is a religion of free grace. The Roman Church is not another Christian denomination. It is a satanic counterfeit, an ecclesiastic tyranny over the souls of men, not to bring them to salvation but to hold them bound in sin and to hurl them into eternal damnation. It is the old harlot of the book of the Revelation--"the Mother of Harlots."

-- foobar (foo@bar.com), February 25, 2000.

Z & Brian,

I think you started these links do embarrass ol' George. I support George's thinking, and I've seen a lot more evidence of genetic differences than just skin color. There is brain size, susceptibility to particular diseases, bone structure, etc. In fact, anthropologists have never needed skin color to determine the race of bones dug up. By destroying the integrity of the races, we have destroyed our moral integrity. So count me in as a racist - one who believes there are inherent differences which should be respected and carried forward. This is not what causes racial genocide, by the way. Perhaps what causes it is our moral hypocracy: Example - if the jews force the Palestinians from their homes, and create a homeland for themselves, we call it justice. But if the Serbs go into Kosovo, which has religious significance for them, and attempt to remove the occupants, we call it genocide. "We the People", by the way, was followed by the words "do ordain and procliam this Constitution for ourselves and our posterity". There was only white men present.

-- Okie Dan (brendan@theshop.net), February 25, 2000.

Right you are Okie. It's not skin color that makes the difference, it's genetic and intellectual and cultural disparities. By focusing only on skin color, we have allowed fanatical egalitarians to frame the debate and to ignore the real differences between various races.

-- elle (elle@tinseltown.com), February 25, 2000.

Okie Dan,

Here's why your racism is wrong: It ascribes significance to the most superficial part of one's anatomy (skin color) and invalidates that quality which brings us all together and distinguishes us from all other living species: our rational faculty. Our ability to think and reason, together with our experiences, religious beliefs and other factors ultimately leads to the formation of our individual convictions, values and character.

So you would prefer to judge people on their skin color, ignoring their convictions, values and character? A hypothetical question for you: Let's say your daughter had to marry either Adolf Hitler or Alan Keyes. Which one would you choose, and why?

And by the way, while you're on the Constitution, read the Bill of Rights. Those rights are for all.

I honestly hope you think hard about these things. Let me know if you want an elaboration.

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), February 25, 2000.

Just think of the Advantages of cross Breeding.Eventually the San Diego Zoo will only have to take care of ONE Creature.You will not have to make a Choice between Apples,Pears and Oranges,Words like white,black,Asian,Caucasian all will disappear from our Dictionaries,Wow,what a simple and uncomplicated Life.I am looking forward to it.

-- Causes Oil Shortages (too@much.breeding), February 25, 2000.

Marcus my man, I understand where you are coming from. I am white and I heard the very words verbatim coming out of your mouth spoken by my very white southern father. I might add that upon leaving for college, he added, "Don't ever darken my doorway again if you bring home a black boyfriend." Hmmmmmm, I guess those words weren't the racial slur I once thought. After all, if YOU can say it, then it MUST be okay.

No seriously Marcus. You are entitled to your opinions whatever it may be and I won't step in and raise your children for you. I hate it that BIG BROTHER government is trying to do just that. I won't say that I agree with you either, but that's okay. Are we diverse enough yet? Hey, and I didn't even date you. But then that would upset my husband.

You are wrong when you say that diversity is a product of race. It is not. It is a product of a group of individuals who choose to ally themselves together through common beliefs and "evolve" together. These then form towns, cities, cultures based on their own unique diversity.

Location, location, location. The eskimos are distinctly different from their Native American counterparts, yet they are of the same "Stock"....as they are of the asian stock as well....I've yet to see an eskimo in a kimono...or acting like a buddhist. Nope, yet their racial heritages are similar.

Perhaps a mixing of the races will result in even more diversity. Don't worry Marcus, there will be black folk, white folk, red folk, brown folk, tan folk, etc...for a long while yet. But my guess is that as time goes by....over a VERY long time period, we will have one race..unless we go to the stars and separate all over again.

The internet is erasing diversity faster than interdating by the way. Perhaps you should go fight that cause for a while.

-- Alice (Looking@glass.com), February 25, 2000.

Well, it's a slow day on the forum so I took the time to read both of these threads. I found two posts by George Valentine. In them he was civil, and explained his reasoning.

I can't say I agree with either his reasoning or his conclusions but nowhere in what the man actually said did I find anything that would warrant labeling the man a nazi. That's an easy knee-jerk perjorative to slap someone with and was unwarranted.

Mr. Valentine would appear to be a racial seperatist it is true but the Nazis were about very much more than mere seperatism.

The attempt to mix presidential politics into it was also rather lame.

.........Alan.

-- A.T. Hagan (athagan@netscape.net), February 25, 2000.

Many responses on this and the other thread to my posts seem to automatically assume that I think that because the races are different that one or more of them have to be inferior. I do not feel that way. But I do feel, that it is wise for the races (use cultures instead of races if that is less offensive to you) to remain separate.

The main reason that I believe that they should remain separate is because I believe that God wants it that way, but there are other, practical, reasons for that as well. As a (very) small example, I remember reading a study long ago in which it was found that whites, by and large, prefer to stand 30 to 36 inches away from each other when in conversation; blacks, on the other hand, prefer to stand 24 inches or less from one another. In a conversation between a white and a black, the white feels the black is invading his space and the black feels that the white is standoffish. The cultures _are_ different.

By the way, I offer a sincere thank you to those of you who did not ascribe some hateful motive to my posts. Since the posts did not convey my values, it seems to me that those who read them could not know what I was thinking, inspite of their reactions to what they thought I said.

George

-- George Valentine (georgevalentine@usa.net), February 25, 2000.

George you are absolutely right that there ARE difference between the races. Any scientist who has studied this will verify it. But what does that mean exactly? Well, let's see, any LARGE ENOUGH group will manifest differences. If I lumped all of the blue eyed folks together and compared them with all of the folks with a size 9 shoe and then cross referenced this with folks who are left handed, I would find LOTS of differences. So what are you saying exactly, George?

Differences don't mean better or worse. On that we are in complete agreement, or are we? I'm left handed, but my husband is right.. Should I have preserved this difference? My husband is of island descent, while I am of european...Should I have preserved that? He has brown eyes, while I have blue...His feet are bigger too. Hmmmm....When you pre-select one trait out for "unnatural" selection, you are prejudiced against/for that trait.

Today it is PC to say racist. But couldn't we also scream, elitist? Intellectual? I personally would be horrified if my child came home with a banana brained idiot/non-working loafer....does that make me prejudiced? You bet it does! I plead guilty. But you are intellectually dishonest to say otherwise. We are ALL colored by our respective cultures and viewpoints. And we all seek to "break out" of our molds as well and become more than we are. That is called being human. I am very proud of that distinction which sets me apart from the animal kingdom.

You and I and everyone on this forum are of the same "race"....we manifest our differences in many ways. I love the interplay of diversity I see all around me and I welcome it. It makes me grow. Man has always sought out challenges through "breaking" with traditions, exploration, etc....that is who we are. Right now there is a move afoot to make us all "one"...it is called being PC. I am NOT PC. I like the differences and the freedoms afforded to me living in the twenty first century.

I say if you want to date within your own culture (for whatever reason) then you are certainly entitled. Please don't cloak it in religious dogma, racial epithets, or other vagueries...It is your choice...Simple as that. When you must "defend" it, then you show your prejudices and not the justifications that you THINK you are showing.

Don't try to "convert" others. It won't work. Never has and never will. Jesus held his sermons in large open areas and invited folks to show up...he didn't knock on their doors and demand admittance and force his ideas down anybody's throats....He was a very smart man.

The kids are crying for food...you'd think I starve them around here...sheesh...so I must fly. I will return later...but I am going on vacation for a week tomorrow and will have to check the archives to see how all of this turns out.

My predictions are: Nobody will change their minds. Most folks will have their feathers ruffled. Some will enjoy the banter (me, me!), and others will leave very mad indeed.

-- Alice (Looking@glassdarkly.com), February 25, 2000.

George,

Instead of emphasizing where the members of the "races" stand in relation to one another, or the color of their skin, what about the important things -- like how they think? Do you think they all use reason and logic? Or how about emotion -- do they not all love, hate, fear, attain happiness, get angry and show compassion?

-- eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), February 25, 2000.

"Why fight so long and hard to have the black race accepted as worthy of equal respect and then turn around and destroy the black race through intermarriage with other races? "

Marcus, with all due respect, if you are asking this question, then I question your understanding of the intrinsic purpose and goal of this historic fight. Do you believe this was truly about establishing significance for the black man alone? If so, then I understand the source of your seemingly racist remarks. I believe this fight has been to establish that all people are created of equal worth and significance in the eyes of God. I believe this fight is to establish that an individual's worth is not based on their skin color, their intelligence, their education, their monetary worth, whether they are physically whole or beautiful, their religion, their age, or anything other than their simple basic humanity. This country was founded on the truth that all men are created equal, but we live in a world that so often wants to play god and delineate and define that concept of equality based on selfish and narrow-minded standards.

Sir, I respect your right to prefer that your children marry black spouses. In one sense, I understand the sense of the ethnic appeal: that marriage itself is such an undertaking of blood, sweat and tears, that less in common may add to the struggle. There is also the undeniable ugly truth that interracial couples will probably have to deal with the additional stress of outside racism. Yet, there is an indescribable magic and miracle to love that defies all definitions and formulas and prescriptions. You must admit that the most unlikely couples will often 'make it', and those who seemed guaranteed to succeed often fail. I don't think this was the point of your ethnic appeal though.... I think you stated your mere preference for one color and culture over another. That is fine... for you. It is sad to hear.

My hope is to see mankind value another human being simply because they 'are'. (Flamers, please don't twist this into a purposely misunderstood bunny trail.)

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), February 25, 2000.

Marcus, you say, "I am a black person, that's what I am, part of the black cultural history."

Could you please explain to those of us who are confused by this statement, just what you consider the "black cultural history" to be?

Is it the culture of Angola? South Africa? Kenya? Mali? Cameroon?

Or is it one of the later black cultures, e.g. USA, England, British Colombia, Jamaica, or Costa Rica, for instance?

How can you "preserve" a culture which really does not exist?

I don't have any problem with your wanting to have your kids marry other blacks (if you really ARE a black person). But I do have a problem if you want to lay your trip on others.

Besides, I don't think there is any particular problem with turning the whole world into a "borring tan colored race"

Where's the problem, Bunky?

-- jumpoff joe a.k.a. Al K. Lloyd (jumpoff@ekoweb.net), February 25, 2000.

Mumsie: You seem to think that race doesn't matter. I think it matters very much and I don't want to see mine disappear. I think a person's allegiance should be first to his family, then his race and then the human race, in that order.

-- marcus (skitch@hero.net), February 25, 2000.

marcus, you said,

"You seem to think that race doesn't matter. I think it matters very much and I don't want to see mine disappear."

Your genes won't disappear no matter who you breed with. Your culture won't disappear as long as you bother to TEACH it to those who are imporant to you. Your skin color may disappear, but that's it.

Is that what you are trying to preserve, your skin color? If so, what does it really matter? If not, what aspect of your "race" do you think you'll lose by intermarrying?

Not trying to troll, but interested in your response,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 25, 2000.

The differences between black and white run far deeper than just skin color. I'm proud of my racial heritage and of the struggle we've had to fight in order to be able to hold our heads up high. It would make generations of struggle and suffering a mockery if the black race is absorbed into some offwhite mixture through marrying white people.

-- marcus (skitch@hero.com), February 25, 2000.

Marcus, since you won't answer my question about your "culture", shall I assume you can't?

-- jumpoff joe a.k.a. Al K. Lloyd (jumpoff@ekoweb.net), February 26, 2000.

Well,here it comes.I am not sure what this all about,there seem to be some Conversation about "Black" and "White"mixing??It appears that the Human Race is even more ignorant than the Apes.Their(the Apes) Gene Structure is so close,You cant tell them apart genetically,YET,they apparently have more Sense than the Human Breeders.A Gorilla does not mate with a Chimp or a Orangutan and vice versa.

-- iceman (johnny@come.late), February 26, 2000.

If we began breeding absolutely any variety of goat with another, we would be described as *irresponsible* breeders. AKC breeders pride themselves on keeping various breeds and bloodlines pure. PRIDE.

We already have a world bank, world market, world peacekeeping forces, world courts, world gov(?), why not a world race? Maybe they should begin creating this new race in test-tubes and simply bypass any bickering that may result...they can 'purify' all the imperfections in the process. This IS NOT about bigotry and those who are implying such should make sure they aren't wearing that shoe themselves.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), February 27, 2000.

Will continue,

Are you being more paranoid than usual, or did I miss something? Did someone propose a one world race? Did anyone say that they wanted to have all the races mix to the extent that there was only one race? I think Marcus and a few others were over reacting; I don't know anybody who is suggesting interracial marriage become a REQUIREMENT.

-- jumpoff joe a.k.a. Al K. Lloyd (jumpoff@ekoweb.net), February 28, 2000.

No need for you to clear up your position, Al. You made your opinion perfectly clear about 40 posts above when you stated:

"I'm not going to call you a dickhead (Marcus), but I thought about it."

You've made it quite clear that anyone who would oppose interracial marraige (for ANY reason) is an ignorant bigot or 'dickhead'. Just because your view is different from mine certainly does not make you a dickhead. You're simply ignorant and you live in PC La-La Land. I have news for ya Al, the real world does not want to live together embracing racial harmony, blending and bliss. Billions (with a 'B') appear to enjoy being different. Accept it and move on. I'm extremely tired of hearing people scream, 'racist' over absolutely anything and everything. Most unbecoming and horribly whinny of you.

The only person who over-reacted on this thread was YOU. You'll just have to come to terms with that fact and then let it go. The last thing you need is any additional baggage as it appears you are struggling enough with what you currently own.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), February 28, 2000.