Yesterday, El Coyote asked if any Gore supporters could defend Al Gore's stretching of the truth when he claimed to have "had a leadership role in the creation of the Internet" (he worked to establish funding for the early Net as a young Congressman). Let's hear El Coyote or you true blue conservative Republicans respond to the allegations at the site below, if they will:

http://www.georgebush2000.com/

-- Let's have some (truth@in.advertising), February 21, 2000

Answers

Let's have some.

I read the article you posted. What's the matter with Bush Jr.? He's only following in daddy's footsetps, right?

-- Richard (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), February 21, 2000.

"There ought to be limits to freedom."

G. W. Bush, Jr. 1999

-------------------------

I'm proud to be a Texan, and I'm glad I live in Austin.

I worry about the motives of someone who would make a statement as the one above. Even though I love it here, something like this makes me consider voting with my feet, and moving to a place that still values freedom without limits.

Peace and Love,

Don

(check out http://gwbush.com for a hoot and some enlightenment on this guy!)

-- Shimoda (enlighten@me.com), February 21, 2000.

There was a story/rumor? that Dubya's people tried to buy that website for 100's of thousands, but the owner wanted more, heh,heh....I'll bet everyone who ripped Gore yesterday would rip Bush too, but a little more time is needed to get to know him. Unfortunatly, we've known Gore for eight years; oh god, I just imagined eight more.....Then I thought about moving to another country, but realized he's a global village type, just like Bush.......there is no escape; they're gonna get us with the bait and switch!

-- KoFE (Your@town.USA), February 21, 2000.

I read the article:: The man sells some stock;;; big deal ;; Its because he is rich blah,blah,,,,H does some wheeling & dealing in commodities and makes 100k. Unheard of profit even for the PROs. Property taxes I have let mine go on my camp in the mountains for a couple of years, oh my !!! Teacher salaries the lowest, like I care about a bunch of college graduate losers who could not get a real job in industry. And oh my the environment ::: the asshole environmentalists wanted to put a ban ''''A BAN ''''' on mowing grass and using a gas grill in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania because of the fumes in the atomsphere. IT took Senator Rick Santorum, Republican to push the bleeding hearts back. I can go down the list and refute each and every BS statement made. Did Bush ask the FCC to put a tax (A TAX) on your phone bill to subsidize the internet costs for the schools when 99% of all schools in America have the internet. It was to subsidize cable TV for the lazy. Who is supposed to implement taxes (Congress) not the FCC. I am not a BUSH fan, but I certainly do not want to see Ozone AL in office.

What a large number of you on this net do not understand is the cost of living problems under J. Carter. I was a true democrat. After 4 years of high taxes, inflation, starvation, no work, I was glad when Ronald Reagan took office. Home mortagage rates were 18 1/2 %. A gallon of gas 1.59. On 14,000 per year we almost had to go on welfare. In fact my children qualified for medical assistance, we had to accept. (shots) etc.

All I can say to all of you is this;;;; Vote them in;; Vote BIG AL in, BIG government will take good care of you. After all you are not as smart as they are, they know whats right for you. Ask them they will tell you. In fact in due time they will tell you what is right for you to say (political correctness), how long you should be on the net. blah blah

-- bobby knight (rknight@nb.net), February 21, 2000.

I adore Barbara Bush and like and respect George Sr. They belonged to the same club [The Houstonian] I did when I lived in Houston, and where they had their "legal" Texas residence while living in Houston. I ran into Barbara & her secret service entourage while using the jogging trail thru the woods. When George Sr. became a "civilian", their new home was 3 miles from my home, and his office 2 miles. We went to the same church.

I voted for George W. Jr. twice as Governor of Texas. Thought he did a great job. BUT ... I would NOT vote for him as president of the United States.

"Good Ole Boy", moneyed network, dad's friends ... worked fine for us in Texas. But I don't want that for the nation.

I used to be involved with so-called Texas "society" ... almost all wealthy Republicans ... before I moved to Oregon. Got disgusted with the games that were played. Been to fundraisers in mansions. Board of Directors "Meetings" in Jamaica, staying in ultra-luxe villas ... all tax write-offs ... knowing how to take advantage of the system.

George W. Jr. is part of that system.

I have contempt for what's been going on with Wall Street and Investment Banks and derivatives. Little guys are getting screwed. Most retirement accounts for older people who invested in what they knew rather than speculative high-tech stocks ... have gone done. Many to same valuation as a few years ago.

While some of the writing in that link is too sensational for my taste. This is true:

Insider Trading and George W. Bush

A U S T I N, July 1-- The Securities and Exchange Commission defines insider trading as "Corporate officers, directors, and employees who traded the corporation's securities after learning of significant, confidential corporate developments". Bush sold $848,560 worth of Harken Energy stock on June 22, 1990, just one week before the company posted spectacular losses and the stock plunged sharply. When the losses were reported to the public on August 20, 1990, the stock plummeted.

According to documents from a two year investigation by the SEC, Bush served on the board of directors of Harken Energy Corporation and his position on a special Harken committee gave him detailed knowledge of the company's deteriorating financial condition. The SEC received word of Bush's trade ten months late.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), February 21, 2000.

Cheryl,

Going to vote for weird Al then?

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 21, 2000.

Some of you would be disgusted by some of the conversations I was involved in, particularly at these so-called "board of directors" meetings in a tropical paradise.

There would be a 1-hour meeting with the "board" and some local attorney during the week we were there. Other than that ... absolutely NO business was discussed. Whole trip would be written off!!!

We flew 1st class with the "board" and spouses. About $20,000 just for air fare for 8 of us. We each had our own 2 bedroom, 1,500-3,000 sq ft villas ... and private pools, with maids & butlers - all at taxpayer expense. [My "ex" and I always had the largest villa because he was CEO.]

The board members and spouses were delightful. Really neat people in a strictly social setting. BUT ... some of these conversations over dinner:

- Multi-millionnares saying how we need that PAC money to promote alpacas!

- How one strung along a really great engineer that they really wanted ... UNTIL ... they found out the wife had MS. They didn't want the impact on insurance, so they discussed how you follow the legal deal to not hire the guy.

- How minimum wage should not be increased. If it's increased it comes out of our pockets and our stockholders.

- How they were decreasing health benefits to save on the bottom line.

These are George W. Bush's friends. The ones who have funded him.

I don't know who I'm going to vote for. But, IMHO ... George W. is a pawn for the moneyed crowd. He's already beholding to a lot of people from the past. He's beholding to all of that new money that has come his way.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), February 21, 2000.

Why not? He created the internet while taking breaks from plowing behind his mules (wink) back in Tennessee. And you have to give him credit for being part of the "most ethical administration in history".

-- Z (Z@Z.com), February 21, 2000.

Cheryl's posts are very informative and disturbing. There are no realistic choices this year, between the internet creator, the lunatic basketball player, POW snitch and big money's fair-haired child. Sigh.

-- Z (Z@Z.com), February 21, 2000.

What this says may be true. But what is more troublesome is that this is the candidate from Bob Jones University. What does this mean? Read for yourself:

Preside nt of Bob Jones University

From a previous thread it appears that many of you feel that tolerance is a short coming. I don't. But just read and make up your own mind.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), February 21, 2000.

If voting could change the system, it would be outlawed.

-- Give me Liberty or give, ah fagettaboutit... (@ .), February 21, 2000.

I'm not a Jesse Ventura fan, but this is one time that I wish people would rise up and vote for whoever is on the independent ballot, just to send a message to TPTB. I hold some hope that this party is not as fully controlled and manipulated. Idealistic to the end...

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), February 21, 2000.

Mumsie:

I'm not either, but he looked pretty in a feathered boa. It might work; or so it goes.

Best wishes,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), February 21, 2000.

"Just keep smilin' boy, this
thing is already in the bag."

"I got everything worked out
with the Arabs, and we're
gonna lead these dumb cattle
right to their slaughter."

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 21, 2000.

Hawk:

It takes a lot to make a cynic laugh; but that did it. Where do you come up with these things?

Best wishes,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), February 21, 2000.

Lol Z, glad you liked it!

It's a combination of a lot of instinct and a little imagination. In this case, it takes very little imagination to know that this is what they are really thinking.

If big money always wins, we are indeed heading into some VERY troubling times.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 21, 2000.

Good one Hawk, but if you still have a favorite in this race, you must be willfully ignorant.....sorry, no offense meant, it's just sad how we can let ourselves be led by super crooks so that we can feel good about "our side".

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), February 22, 2000.

surely the rep. voter is not responsible for the actions of their candidate as dem. voters are not responsible for Clinton's many transgressions unfortunately due to the vast amount of money needed to support a political candidate and the miriad opportunities for corruption in the US (and elsewhere) are there any clean politicians of either party perhaps you need a different system I'm not saying Brit politicians are whiter than white either.

-- sir richard (richard.dale@unum.co.uk), February 22, 2000.

Speaking of white on white, the most red, white and blue candidate we have is black and nearly spotless. People just can't get past all that color...

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), February 22, 2000.

Generally, everyone here screams for verification of facts when someone makes a statement like "I used to be involved in Houston high society..." I cannot believe that everyone is just taking her at her word when she says she was involved in these circles and knows these people. Even IF what she says is true, do you think that the democrat elite don't do the same thing? Don't be so naive. Who is Gore, Bradley or McCain beholdEN to? I'd rather have a Pres. who is beholdEN to business men/women who want less gov't intrusion in their business/ lives than freaks who want to outlaw grass mowing and grilling! Prob'ly the only one not beholdEN to anyone/thing(except the constitution)is Keyes. It's a shame he has no chance to win.

-- Just Curious (jnmpow@flash.net), February 22, 2000.

Hillary and Gore and Bradley and .... no word of the extreme corruption, the absolute sellout of America's military and technical base to foreign enemies for political power....

... and they say nothing.

Absolute lies and distortions from the left? And they say nothing.

---...---

Pure jealousy of his money, all of it earned working in the oil fields, or by his father working in industry and investing.

The Clintons money was extorted from people who wanted to buy his politcal favors...but they said nothing about that. The Clintons' money was bribery - but they said nothing about that. (Yet somehow, after years of 200,000.00 per salaies, they couldn't afford - and had no intention of buying! even a TV set for their multi-million dollar mansion in "upstate" NYC.

Their money is from Hollywood and the eastern liberals, from Communist Chinese and Indonesians and from INdian tribes forced to donate to get government action from the BIA.

Bush's money is from legal donors - are these two (Cheryl and Hawk) jealous of his success?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), February 22, 2000.

If God had meant us to vote - he would have given us candidates!

-- Laurane (familyties@rttinc.com), February 22, 2000.

Robert -

Cheryl, like you, has been a valuable contributor to this Forum for quite some time. What reason do you have to attribute petty personal motivations to her criticism of Dubya? I'm a big fan of the whole Bush family and currently plan to vote for Dubya, but I saw nothing in Cheryl's post that lead me to conclude that she was in any way jealous of him. I've spent some time with a few high muckety-mucks, and some of them are not exactly fabulous human beings. In fact, a few are gimlet-eyed creeps with whom I would never ever want to work.

Far as I'm concerned, the Republicans have two strong candidates running, and I couldn't be happier. Let either of them win the nomination and then get a Veep like Liddy Dole or Colin Powell or Alan Keyes and the Dems won't know what hit 'em.

-- DeeEmBee (macbeth1@pacbell.net), February 22, 2000.

At the risk of sounding ignorant, I have never figured out what the "Dubya" is all about. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Thanks,

R.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), February 22, 2000.

Oh..."W"...nevermind :0)

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), February 22, 2000.

DeeEmBee,

I think from the antagonistic tone of Robert's comments, he assumed I was voting Democrat. Right now I'm actually leaning towards McCain. I'm an independent and vote both ways. Won't be making final decision until later in the year when we know who the players are.

It amazes me the amount of hostility, name calling and pettiness that goes on with political elections ... from both candidates AND supporters.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), February 22, 2000.

I'm just generically pissed at 24 years of hypocrisy from the left (and media in particular) .... it should not be a personal comment - rather a generic one (deliberately) aimed at those who (in the media and the Democratic party, like he who created this post) who so reverently pretend they are impartial and honest - but who fail to notice the absolute hatred, dishonesty, faults (both petty and great) and failures in their chosen political leaders.

Thus - a person can pretend - with great self-admiration - to point out that "W" (or Newt, or some other example of republican leader who have made errors) "poked his head into a meeting with one lobbyist who was meeting one aide on one problem for thirty seconds."

They then heap great scorn on "W" for interfering in the legistlature at hand - but fail to point out htat Hillary (or Gore) - or others - have directly demanded funds from their supporters - who have attended fund raisers at the house of trial lawyers, or tobacco lobbyists, or Chinese, or demanded from defense companies that they sponsor attendees on international trips to get influence.

But those deliberate bribery and extortion efforts are ignored - it's not convenient to discuss them.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), February 22, 2000.

Sounds like you just did an excellent characterization of the right-wing Republicans Robert!

As for me being jealous of the Shrub, I'd like to be like him about as much as I'd like to be a pile of crap. I work for my money, I don't have most of it handed to me by my Daddy and his political cronies, and cheat and steal to get the rest. My conscience wouldn't allow me to do the kind of stuff the Shrub does and still like myself.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 22, 2000.

Robert,

... "who so reverently pretend they are impartial and honest - but who fail to notice the absolute hatred, dishonesty, faults (both petty and great) and failures in their chosen political leaders."

Why do you single out the Democrats? I've seen these traits on both sides of the fence. Republican AND Democrat. That's why I'm an independent. And, very cynical about politics.

It's hard to filter thru the B.S. flung on both sides. I need my cowboy boots to wade thru all this stuff.

Personally I wish we could take the moderates from both the Republican and Democrat sides ... and create a 3rd party - "The Moderates". I don't like extreme positions, neither liberal nor conservative. Just too devisive. Oh well. It will probably never happen in my lifetime.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), February 22, 2000.

Cheryl:

Don't worry too much. Robert is in a foul mood today. He sometimes gets that way, although he is usually civil. Why the mood? He is a dedicated Republican [in contrast, I am an independent]. He realizes that Dubya is going to win the Republican nomination and that Dubya and his boys committed a fatal error in South Carolina.

What was that? They paired-up with Bob Jones University and the Pat and Jerry show. In the general election, there will be no discussion of the Chinese connection or of monks. The discussion will be about religous bigotry.

A number of posters have decried how Christians are not respected. That is really not true. The response is against the people Dubya just allied himself with. We must wait and see how this plays out.

Best wishe

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), February 22, 2000.

Z1X4Y7,

Very astute observations about Bob Jones University. Brought to mind what I liked about George Bush as governor of Texas, and don't like about him now.

George Jr., as governor, would put the best person in positions ... regardless of whether they were Republican or Democrat. He ran the state like a business. You get the best person to get the job done. Granted some favors might have been paid out ... but, it was never obvious. Because of that, I've always liked George Jr. because he was IMO a "maverick" in politics. I don't feel that way anymore.

He's always been a positive kinda guy ... let's get the job done ... and now as I look at him with his negative campaigm ... he seems awkward doing it. Seems scripted. And. it seems like he's selling himself out. IMHO he's been compromising himself to get votes and appease the big moneyed crowd who've contributed to his campaign. Running for governor, he never made an effort in the past to appeal to right-wing, Christian extremists. Now he is.

<A number of posters have decried how Christians are not respected. That is really not true.>

I agree. It's only extremist positions. And like I've said before, I don't like left OR right extreme positions.

It's always amazed me how many wars/battles have gone on thru history ... and now ... how many people have died, been maimed, and families & communities torn apart ... in the name of religion. How sad. I've always thought religion should bring people together ... not tear them apart ... and create so much hostility and hatred.

Guess I'm too much of an idealist. Like I've said. I don't know who I'm gonna vote for. But McCain, to me, is like a breath of fresh air. I sure wish he would get the nomination.

Hawk,

You're being too hard on George W. Jr. He's actually a nice guy, and very well liked in Texas. He's been a good governor.

He would have been a fool to not have taken advantage of the opportunities which were thrown his way because of his dad. He's not an idealist. He's a realist.

I don't like how the oil deal was handled. If he didn't sell his stock just before the sh*t hit the fan ... and leave his stockholders holding the bag ... he would have been bankrupt. The wealthy stockholders really didn't care. They just saw it as a tax loss ... and that George W. "owed" them down the road. There really is a Good Ole Boy network, and it extended beyond Texas boundries with George Sr. became president.

It always amazed me, particularly during the recession in TX in mid-80's ... how some of these guys lost millions because of a deal gone bad. But, when you'd see them at cocktail parties or dinner, these same guys would act like good friends in public. Berate them in private, but pat them on the back in public. "Don't burn bridges."

The guy who brought him into the Texas Rangers deal [right after "W" sold his stock in his money losing oil venture] admitted he, and others involved, did it because of George Sr., and his political position. There was an actual quote to that effect in a Vanity Fair article a couple of months ago.

What did you want George W. to do? Say, "No. I'm not gonna get involved with this multi-million deal if you're hiring me because of my dad ... and not because of my business accumen."

Life doesn't work that way. Particularly when you have a family to take care of. And other family members who you measure your successes & accomplishments in life against.

Sure wish Barbara Bush were running for president. She'd win by a landslide!!!

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), February 22, 2000.

Cheryl,

"He's been a good governor."

Does this sound good?...

Texas Rankings Under Bush: National Ranking Among 50 States

The Education Governor

Teacher salaries at beginning of 1st term . . . 36

Teacher salaries at beginning of 2nd term . . . 38

% Change in Average Salaries 1987-97 constant $ . . . -5.4%

Teacher salaries plus benefits . . . 50

High school completion rate . . . 46

Bush Family Values

Highest number of children living in poverty . . . 2

Highest number of children without health insurance . . . 2

Highest % of children without health insurance . . . 1

Highest % of poor working parents without insurance . . . 1

Highest % of population without health insurance . . . 2

Highest Teen Birth Rate . . . 5

Per capita funding for public health . . . 48

Delivery of social services . . . 47

Mothers receiving prenatal care . . . 45

Teen smoking - down nationally, flat in Texas

Teen drug use - down nationally, up in Texas

Pollution

Pollution released by manufactuting plants . . . 1

Pollution by industrial plants in violation of Clean Air Act . . . 1

Greenhouse gas emissions . . . 1

Quality of Life

Spending for parks and recreation . . . 48

Spending for the arts . . . 48

Public libraries and branches . . . 46

Spending for the environment . . . 49

Best place to raise children . . . 48

"Sure wish Barbara Bush were running for president."

You have GOT to be kidding. One thing we don't need is another old senile president, we've had enough of those already. I think there should be an ammendment to the Constitution that says a president can not be any older than 55 when taking office.

"She'd win by a landslide!!!"

Maybe in Texas, but not in the rest of the country, and I think that says a lot about Texans. :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 22, 2000.

Hawk,

Take a look at where Texas was 8 years ago ... and where they are now. Perhaps not a fantastic, remarkable improvement. But, an improvement nonetheless. Enough that most Texans have been happy with George Jr.

I still wouldn't vote for him as president. But I do give him credit for what he's done.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), February 22, 2000.

BTW ... My comments referred to character ... not Barbara Bush's age.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), February 22, 2000.

"Take a look at where Texas was 8 years ago ... and where they are now."

I'd guess that Shrubya has been giving you a snow job, and you've been buying it. Look at the numbers, they speak for themselves. How could Texas have been worse than worst or second worst on nearly every criteria?

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 22, 2000.

I'd guess that Shrubya has been giving you a snow job, and you've been buying it. Look at the numbers, they speak for themselves.

You gave me most recent numbers. I asked that you compare against figures 8 years previously.

You show me where situation has stayed the same, or gotten worse under his governorship for most of those areas which you've itemized ... then I'll concede. [Don't know why I'm defending Bush Jr. - I already said that I wouldn't vote for him. I just get tired of emotional tirades and bashing from both sides.]

Otherwise based on your posts that I've seen thusfar, I'll just surmise that you and Robert Cook are two peas in a pod ... just at different ends of the spectrum. Biased, hostile, emotional and antagonistic.

It's a shame that political elections seem to bring out the worst in people.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), February 22, 2000.

Hawk,

When/if you respond ... PLEASE provide link for verification. I appreciate facts. If my perception is wrong, I'm willing to admit it. But I need more than your word. Too much stretching of truth going on with this election. Thanks.

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), February 22, 2000.

Cheryl:

As far as I know, Hawk's data is correct. But you and I know that the system of state government in Texas is different. The gov. has little power; other than the power to persuade.

Hawk:

Would you please quit confusing the discussion with facts. That is so annoying.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), February 22, 2000.

Cheryl,

Apparently you're so in love with Shrubya that you're not interested in reading anything which casts him in not such a good light. The link where I got that information is the same one posted at the top of this thread by the original poster. The sources of the information are well documented and reputable.

Some people may like him because they enjoy lots of pollution and watching children drop out of school and starve in the streets. This makes them think he isn't spending as much, but from what I understand, government spending for the state of Texas has doubled under Bush. Trouble is, most of it is going to his special interests.

Not my kinda guy.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 22, 2000.

I never questioned Hawk's current data. I'm sure it's true. Texas never was the poster child for the BEST state ... in many areas.

What I asked for ... was a comparison from 8 years ago [around time Bush was elected as TX governor] vs the current figures Hawk posted - to see if there was an improvement or not. Otherwise those figures are meaningless.

Just trying to be fair. Maybe I'm wrong with my perception of how things were while I was living in Texas. Perhaps things were getting worse, while I thought things were getting better.

We all have biases, without realizing that we do. Maybe I did. [I'm still not inclined to vote for Bush, even though I thought he did a good job as TX governor.]

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), February 22, 2000.

Cheryl,

I appreciate you're willingness to consider the possibilty that maybe things are not as good as Bush may lead you to believe, it is a much better response than we usually see when posting such not-so-flattering information.

Again, my point was that if those figures are accurate, how could it have been much worse? How could Bush have made much improvement, if things are now almost as bad as they can be? Offhand I don't know where to get the information for 8 years ago, but your argument works both ways. If this current information is correct, then the OLD figures are meaningless, right?

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 22, 2000.

Hawk,

I appreciate you're willingness to consider the possibilty that maybe things are not as good as Bush may lead you to believe, it is a much better response than we usually see when posting such not-so-flattering information.

LOL - I already said in my first post that I wasn't planning on voting for Bush. I just don't like unfounded, emotional, extremist info from either end. Democrats or Republicans. Neither argument has credibility if it's one-sided.

If this current information is correct, then the OLD figures are meaningless, right?

NO If the situation remained the same or eroded during his 8-yr tenure, then you're right. If he made improvements, then you're wrong.

Listen Hawk, I don't know who exactly you want to be president. I'm inclined to vote for McCain. But, if he's not ultimately a nominee ... I don't know who I'd vote for. I'm really not excited about Gore. And feel uncomfortable about Bush. So, who knows.

Any suggestions? Why?

-- Cheryl (Transplant@Oregon.com), February 23, 2000.

When I used the word "appreciate" I was being sincere, guess I was misunderstood, as often happens.

Anyway, I knew that you had said you weren't going to vote for him, but you also said you thought he was a good governor.

Now, I'm not trying to be impolite, but this is the third time I'm going to try to explain the point that you seem to be missing...

When a state is ranked #1 in the country out of 50 states, for having the most amount of pollution, how could Bush have made an improvement???

Take a closer look at those figures. They are almost all either the worst or second worst ranking in the country. If Bush has made any improvement, it had to have been miniscule. It's possible in some categories that he could have improved by a rank of 1 or 2 states, but not much. Do you understand what I am saying yet?? (please?) :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 23, 2000.

Good to read you're still posting around here, Cheryl.

Your description of the super-rich reminds me of that scene in the film Dr. Zhivago when Moscow's super-rich are dining in elegant restaurants overlooking the square where the people are gathering to begin an uprising. The rich are sure that the police will have matters under control and their dinners will not be interrupted.

Bushes breed Lenins. How 'bout that bummper-sticker tidbit?

Many of the rich and conservative are wonderful people. The system they are part of sucks and accomplishes neither social equity nor economic efficiency. It wastes lives, kills people, and produces the hollow husks that you had to hobnob occasionally with.

Good fortune to you in the future. I'll see you again on other threads but probably won't make it back to this one.

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), February 23, 2000.