Time Question on "All in the Family"

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Okay last week we had alot of questions about the time of the attack. I'm confused as to the time-line.

Malucci was on duty until 9. But Carol said that Mark left for his dinner date at 8:00. What confuses me is that Mark had to pick up his dad and then go to the restaurant to meet Lizzie & her mom. They appeared to have at least appetizers if not a full dinner. Plus the singing they did. Mark's time away had to be at least an hour. Which means either Carol was lying to Kerry about the time Mark left or the writers weren't paying attention. I've been watching both shows over to get an idea when Carrie found Lucy & Carter, and no clock is ever shown. So I think the timeline can be loosely construed as this:

Mark had to have left around 7-7:15. Mrs. Connelly died at 7:19. Let's assume Kerry came in around or slightly before 8. She would always be prompt. Since Lucy was awake and very little blood had pooled around her at the time of Carter saw her from under the bed, she was most likely attacked either while Carter & Abby were on their way downstairs from the roof or right after they arrived. And that probably would've taken 10 min to go upstairs, have their talk, come downstairs. So most likey Lucy was attacked around 7:35. And then Carter was attacked probably no more than 5 min later. Which means they were lying there no more than 1/2 hour at the most. Any longer & I think they would've definitely been missed.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

-- AmyE (roamyn@aol.com), February 20, 2000


Response to Time Question

nice analysis, but how are you sure Mark didn't leave at (or around) 8:00. The fact that Malucci was only on 'till 9 doesn't say much, because I'm sure that he wouldn't have left exactly on time. If Lucy and Carter were found close to 9, he would have stayed as long as he was needed (and not in the way). If Mark left at 8, and he and Liz were paged just after nine, that would give them time for a song and a drink. My impression was that Kerry arrived at or just before 9, right before Malucci was off. That accounts for the hour Mark was at the restaurant, and the serious condition that Carter and Lucy were in when they were found.

I didn't tape last weeks epi, so i don't remember whether Mark left before Mrs Connelly died (if he did, then the writers definitely goofed)

One last thought: it's a long shot, and it adds a lot to the confusion of time lines, but it's possible (not likely) that Malucci's "on 'till nine, feelin' fine" line was a joke on his part, said simply to get a rise out of Carol. Just an idea.

In any case, very good analysis Amy.

-- ivy rose (dani.shortnsweet@chickmail.com), February 20, 2000.

Response to Time Question

I just wanted to say thank you both for trying to figure this out! I've tried, but I think yours was much closer then mine was! I just wanted to add one thing, I think your right, if Dave was on until nine, but the ER was having a party, I doubt he would have left if he was having fun (and if he didn't have to leave for some reason), plus after that I'm sure he would stay on as long as he was helping. Anyway, thanks again!


-- Amelia (sorry@msn.com), February 20, 2000.

Response to Time Question

Okay...if they were only lying there 1/2 an hour....and not much blood was around Lucy, meaning it must have just happened...then the question is why? What could have happened to set him off? Did she say something to him or do something? I could see if she left the argument with Carter, walked back in the room and he attacked but it was obviously later (the loud music...no one could hear). Did the party freak him out or was it something Lucy did? I wish they would have shown what led up to the initial attack. Not just the spinal tap but when he and Lucy were alone. It isn't like we can see it through her flashbacks now, either.

-- jackiea (jackiea@hotmail.com), February 20, 2000.

Response to Time Question

Did he mean 9 PM or 9 AM?

-- Leigh (WillnGraceNYC@yahoo.com), February 20, 2000.

Response to Time Question

Thanks for the analysis - been having trouble figuring this out myself.

I believe Dave meant 9 pm. Also, I seem to remember (wish I had taped the episode!) that Kerry comments when she first walks in that she thought Mark was on until 9, and Carol (I think) responds that he left "around 8".

-- DawnW (dwillbanks@excite.com), February 21, 2000.

Response to Time Question

Not sure about the time of everything but was just thinking, that if Paul is staying in the hospital for a while due to is injuries (and I can't remember how severe they were) that hopefully they are going to show more of him explaining what exactly happened in that room that night. Hopefully he will atleast be sane enough for a while to clarify things more for us! :)

-- J.N. (joijoy@webtv.net), February 21, 2000.

Response to Time Question

This response doesn't deal with the original question; but it addresses some of the additional inquiries about what 'made Paul do it' as this issue was presented in the responses above.

I don't understand how there can be any ambiguity about WHY Paul violently attacked Lucy or Carter... but since there seems to be a lot of confusion about the issue -- allow me to put it in simple terms. Paul was a paranoid, delusional, schizophrenic whose illness was untreated, whose behavior was unmonitored, and who had easy access to a lethal weapon. In other words, he stabbed them because he was crazy, and because he had the means to do so. What more explanation could you possibly need? It really isn't important what particular delusions, hallucinations, or misperceptions of reality motivated his completely insane behavior -- the writers made it patently obvious that the poor guy was severely mentally ill. His notion of reality was blatantly skewed, totally bizarre, and devastatingly frightening --- thus, his paranoid ideations overwhelmed his abiltiy to interpret reality in any way that would make sense to any of us.

He was sick.

That's why he did it.

-- L (lolabronx@hotmail.com), February 21, 2000.

Response to Time Question

I think Paul attacked Lucy & Carter because of the spinal tap. Didn't he say that they were trying to steal his internal organs?!?

-- WendyA (wmallen@hotmail.com), February 21, 2000.

Response to Time Question

Paul did it because it made for great TV ratings. By having a delusional paranoid schizophrenic commit the heinous crime, they don't have to explain anything in future episodes or follow up. "He's just nuts/sick" will be the answer, and the character will be retired to a mental hospital. Saves on answering questions with court scenes, etc.

-- someone (nobody@nowhere.com), February 21, 2000.

Response to Time Question

This isn't directly related to the first question, but it is about a time issue and the guy who runs this discussion asked us to respond to other threads instead of create our own, if possible, so I thought I'd honor that.

So are we assuming that Lucy was only lying there slightly before Carter got stabbed? Awhile ago people were saying that she was there hours before because Carter says that Lucy's leg laceration guy was still waiting 4 hours ago. But by then she would've bled to death, right? So this is what bothers me: If Lucy HAD been lying there awhile (though probably not 4 whole hours), and she had more injuries than Carter, how could she still be awake and then they both pass out at the same time? I know it's a dramatic tv show, and Lucy was conscious for the eerie affect of it all, but I wish Carter had stayed conscious longer too, trying to get Lucy at least to stay awake. Was the area that Carter was stabbed worse than Lucy's and that's why he passed out sooner? Being slashed in the throat seems like the worst place though. In my opinion he should have stayed awake longer, maybe in the beginning of the last show. But once again, that's just my hopeless wish that the two of them would have a meaningful closure, instead of none at all. :(

Any answers/opinions????

-- Elaine (mrsclooney78@hotmail.com), February 21, 2000.

Response to Time Question

It's me again. A couple of people have mentioned that Carter said in part I that something to the effect that Lucy was supposed to do the Leg Lac four hours ago, therefore implying that Lucy was laying on the floor four hours. That's not so. The GUY NEEDING the leg lag was there for four hours. Carter specifically says "that guy's been waiting for hours."

In the previews for Part II, Carter & Lucy are shown with pools of blood lying next to them. There was no pool of blood by Lucy when we saw her for the first time through Carter's eyes. Which means, she must've just been attacked prior to Carter walking in 'curtain' 3. There's no way, with the horrible injuries she had that she could've lain there for very long w/o losing consciousness and alot of blood.

BTW - I think Ivy Rose answered my question very well. Though it does appear that Mark did leave for dinner before Mrs. Connelly died at 7:19, we can't be positive as there are no clocks shown anywhere - which is irresponsible set ups by the producers. If you've ever been in a hospital, they're everywhere!

-- AmyE (roamyn@aol.com), February 21, 2000.

Response to Time Question

i downloaded one of the scenes from "all in the family" and when kerry is drilling into lucy, the clock is at 10:10 about, it was fuzzy,but thats about where the hands were

-- tara breen (saturn6356@aol.com), February 21, 2000.

Response to Time Question

About the responses as to why Paul attacked them. Did anyone else catch the comment made by Lucy when she first interviewd Paul about the cafe where he hung out to study and that it was in an area that had been having some mugger attacks. He mummbled something in response (I don't remember just what) and I thought it seemed like foreshadowing of something to come - like he might be the mugger.

-- LynnieA (LynnieA4@cs.com), February 21, 2000.

Response to Time Question

Lynnie - I caught that big about the muggings too. Paul mentions to Lucy that he has been stressed out or something to that affect, and then says there have been muggings at his college campus. Lucy says something like, "Do you think there will be another mugging (i.e. that he is worried he will be the victim) and he says "there might be another one. . . " and it was definitely leading into his "mugging" of her and Carter. And, near the ends he does keep saying, "They were trying to steal my internal organs. I had to protect them (or myself or something like that)."

-- Lisa Smith (thecratchits@yahoo.com), February 23, 2000.

Response to Time Question

Greene had left just prior to Mrs. Connelly's death. As for how long it takes him to get home,remember Greene rides his bicycle on nice days,so it should only take him fifteen minutes to drive home. Kerry would've reported to work a little before nine that evening,In fact she would've had to telling the partying staff they had fifteen minutes before they had to get back to work. That means in effect the attack by Sobricki occurred around 8:30. You have to remember he needed get the knife out of the lounge,which wouldn't have been brought up until seven thirty. As for how long they both layed there my best guess would be almost thirty minutes after the attack giving Sobricki enough time to hide the knife,and escape. As for why he attacked,it was clearly foreshadowed in both his conversation with Lucy about the muggings,as well as mentioned by the classmate who had said the muggings had started when Paul had stopped going to the Library. That was clue number one. Clue number two was the spinal tap itself. Neither Lucy nor Carter had been able to give a clear estimate of the time Sobricki had been asleep after the medication for his vomiting. No pain killer was given during the spinal tap. Paul's already agitated state was made worse the longer he was in there. Lucy got the worst of the attack because she had been with him the longest,had tested him since he had come in that morning.

-- Joel J Lewis (LewisNDLewis@Cs.com), February 24, 2000.

Response to Time Question

I agree that Paul was driven to attack Lucy because of the spinal tap, but what I don't get, and what pissed me off at the time, was why they didn't TELL him what they were doing. They just kept saying "Shhh, calm down, calm down". In his state, of course, it probably wouldn't have mattered, but isn't it standard procedure to explain procedures to the patients?

-- (jac301@is9.nyu.edu), February 24, 2000.

Response to Time Question

I had the same question: why they didn't explain to him what they were doing. In hindsight, it really wouldn't have made a difference due to his mental state, but at that point they didn't know he was mentally ill. I kept thinking to myself "why aren't they explaining it to him????"

-- Kelly W. (kwidener@excite.com), February 24, 2000.

I don't think we will ever know. There are too many continuity screw- ups. I mean, if Mark left at 8 for his double date, then why were he and Elizabeth seen in the restaraunt prior to Mrs. Connelly's death at 7:19? The mother and father died at 3:35 and 3:37, then it went on commercial. Apperantly about 2 1/2 hours passed during the commercial because when Conni came to get Mark to extubate Dr. Hudson, the clock over the admit desk read 6:00. Mrs. Connelly then died at 7:19. The next clue to the time is when Kerry is sawing Lucy's chest, the clock in the trauma room reads 10:10, although when Chuny comes to tell them that Samantha Sobricki is looking for her husband, the clock at admit appears to read 9:30, although it is possible that it was 10:30, but I think that it was 9:10 when Kerry sawed Lucy's chest.We still have a gap from 7:19 to 10:10 that they could have been stabbed. I think Mark did leave at 8, and the writers just put the scenes in the wrong order. Then there is Cleo: "Kovac gave me 15 to grab my dry-cleaning before it closes." I don't know what time the dry cleaner's closes, but I would guess around 9:00. Also, Carol says in AITF "I've been on since 7, I've got to be back here at 7 and I just want to go home and hug my girls." If they work 12 hour shifts she should've left at 7:00 PM, but probably stayed later to be with Robbi and Julia. Here's how I think it went (I'm going to assume that it was 9:30 when Samantha sobricki came to the hospital and that the clock in the trauma room was wrong.):

3:35: Robbi and Julia's mom dies

3:37: Robbi and Julia's dad dies

6:00: Mark extubates Dr. Hudson

7:19: Mrs. Connelly dies

8:00: Mark leave the hospital 1 hour early (I think he was off at 9)

approx 8:15: Carter and Abby have their talk on the roof and Lucy is stabbed

aprrox 8:30: Carter and Abby join the party.

approx 8:35: Carter is stabbed

approx 8:45: Kerry coms in/Cleo goes for dry cleaning (I think Kerry's shift started at 9 and of course she would always be early.)

approx 8:55: Kerry finds Lucy and Carter

approx 9:00: Mark and Elizabeth are paged

approx 9:05-9:10: Mark and Elizabeth arrive, Kerry opens Lucy's chest

2:56: Lucy dies

-- Teddy (richarr@earthlink.net), July 26, 2001.

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