What a shame

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

What a shame that the somewhat off religious posting disapeared yet all the spam saved for aol is still here. I found the responces much more telling of the general mood and tolerance of the posters here than anything I've seen in quite some time. My opinion of this place went down several notches after the past few days of watching this activity. A genuine posting that caused no harm to anyone was pounded out of existance yet the spam has been left in place for the sake of what?

Just remember guys, your intolerance of this post and the poster could wash over you. If you think your mainstream views are ok now, just give this trend of anti religion a few more years and you will be just as "out there" as that poster seems to you now. Follow God not man.

All this from a person who doesn't go to church!

-- Just passin through (nobody@nowhere.com), February 20, 2000

Answers

How long have you been lurking/posting on this forum? Those bible thumpers practically disable this forum a few months ago! The message that was deleted was simply an attempt to prevent the discourse from elevating to that fevered pitch of many months ago. It had nothing to do with Y2K and everything to do with religious viewpoints...nothing wrong with your own opinions and an occasional reference is never deleted. I am a christian. And this won't be deleted. That diatribe that misrepresented itself as information was put here to "goad"...not educate or inform. I believe that LL had something to do with it as well.

We have many different beliefs on this forum and welcome them all. We could argue til doomsday over who is right or we could continue our educational exchanges. That message was an attempt to divide and shift us away from this forum's main reason d'etre.

I'm sorry that you feel that it was censorship or high handed anti religious whatever...I assure that it wasn't...Had it been as long and winded about ANY other religion, it would have been deleted as well. Been there done that...

One message like that is not a problem...If it was let stand..I assure that it would not have been an orphan for long...And surely YOU don't want to go down THAT winding and dangerous road?

-- xyz (exforumregular@lurker.com), February 20, 2000.


One of my main complaints is the fact that almost every reply was a serious cut to the poster and the replys made up 9/10 of the thread by the time it was deleted.

If something offends and doesn't hurt any other way then I say ignore it. It takes two or more to have a fight. The best posible thing to do in these instances is to delete the derogitory replys. An ignored post quickly fades to obscurity. I posted to the thread and noone commented on my post at all! As a result I had noone to reply to about what was said to me.

I have a suspicion that this planet has only been around for about 6600 years give or take and was created to look old on purpose. Some would say its to test ones faith. I have no proof, but the general tone of the bible seems to back that up. The general tone of the old testiment bible also backs up the belief of a chosen people who would rule over the rest of us or kill us off in the name of God also. Based on the linage of the bible I am not one of the chosen.

Anyone who posts to this board is looking for some attention, a reply to what they have said. For the most part this is a normal healthy thing. I believe that anyone who doesn't get a reply will quickly stop posting. Some people seem to believe that even negative attention is better that no attention. I think everyone should stop helping these people be right. No reply at all will get the desired result faster than any other reply you could make. They will stop posting as they learn that it does them no good.

Thank You for allowing me to ramble on.

-- Just passin through (nobody@nowhere.com), February 20, 2000.


A lie told often will be perceived as the truth.

-- Uhhmmm... (JFCP81A@aol.com), February 20, 2000.

There is a reason folks don't discuss politics and religion in polite company....It doesn't stay polite for long. You must be living in a bubble not to realize that a religious posting of the nature that was deleted will generate additional postings (usually of a derogatory manner...as the poster was most defamatory in the posting )...It does not get ignored. People's lives revolve around their faith. It is hurtful and nonproductive. Your response here is adequate support of that. I rest my case.

-- xyz (exforumregular@lurker.com), February 20, 2000.

If you want to practice your faith, go to church but don't proselytize on TB2000, that's the point. I don't attend TB2000 to be converted. All hairy krishnas must be ousted in order to maintain separation of church & TB2000.

-- Guy Daley (guydaley@bwn.net), February 20, 2000.


So, xyz,

"People's lives revolve around their faith. It is hurtful and nonproductive"

Are you saying that just because someone thinks that everyone evolved from slime and worships a rock and has faith that God is some universal force in all living and non-living things and all religions are the same and that there are no absolutes that their life is hurtful and nonproductive? Were you intending for your statement to be mean spirited and intolerant and border on being a hate crime or am I just being a mush head? Please, no offense intended!

I am....

-- Just Wondering ((whirledpeas@utopia.com)), February 20, 2000.


Just Wondering~ I am sorry for the confusion. There is no edit on these messages and I didn't realize that I transposed those last sentences. What I meant to say was that discussing religion is hurtful and nonproductive as someone's faith is "just that"...their FAITH...you will not be convinced unless you want to be...to inflame someone over their religion or lack thereof is to be hurtful and nonproductive. Sorry for the confusion...but I say again, your response to my badly worded and garbled response proves my point. YOU were HURT and the comment made in the context I made it was NON PRODUCTIVE. Case made.

Again, sorry for the confusion..mea culpa.

-- xyz (exforumresgular@lurker.com), February 20, 2000.


Polite company??!! Yea right

I agree with "just passing through" on this one. I personally enjoyed reading the respones on that original thread. Some were very thought provoking, some very tender. I was sad to see it go, a shame indeed.

This entire board is comprised of controversial subjects and arguments. Politics are discussed here. Why not religion?

-- cin (cinlooo@ail.com), February 20, 2000.


I could try to justify it to you, Cin, but you have your mind made up already...much like religion..The anger generated by the "evolution" question and the "religion" question practically tore this forum apart...If they are still available, please check the archived data and read some of it before you "judge" sysops on this one.

Religion is a MUCH hotter topic than politics...which changes every four years...and MUCH, MUCH more personal.

Oh- I contributed to that missing thread too as you will recall. If you like a thread and fear it will be deleted, then please make a copy of it. I believe we used to have a separate "deleted" threads forum...don't know if it still exists..sysops?

-- xyz (exforumregular@lurker.com), February 20, 2000.


Well xyz and Guy, I agree with cin and just passin through to a point, because like it or not, man has a spiritual component. Even atheism is a religion of sorts - a belief its adherants take on faith.

If we say no religious posts at all, then we should allow NO off topic discussions of any kind. To do otherwise is to selectively censor a particular subject because it makes us uncomfortable or disagrees with our own.

I was here eight months ago, and though some discussions got hot and heavy at times, I saw no indication that they were about to "destroy the board" as you suggest. Those who didn't want to read religious posts just didn't read them, and that was that. Sure there were few moans and groans, but some folks on TB2000 go ballistic no matter what the topic is.

To reduce the subjects on a board to where they displease no one is to have a board not worth reading.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), February 20, 2000.



Oh yes, and I would rather have the opportunity to decide for myself what I wanted to read than have officialdom make that decision for me.

Strange as that may sound to younger ears, it used to be the American way.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), February 20, 2000.


I deleted that post because it contained derogatory comments about Jews, Catholics, non-Christians, Buddhists and Moslems. If you want to see it, look for Flat Earth Society Posts at EY Garbage Dump at the Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot board.

http://206.28.81.29/HyperNews/get/gn.html

Also, see the note about religious posts in the text on the New Question form.

Responses were deleted as well because when the main question is missing, the rest makes no sense.

-- - (Sysops@the.delete.key), February 20, 2000.


(((I deleted that post because it contained derogatory comments about Jews, Catholics, non-Christians, Buddhists and Moslems.)))

sysop, I totally agree with you - the above is inexcusable. My posts were a "position paper," of sorts, rather than a criticism of anything you guys have done. IMHO, which isn't worth much, you have done a monumental job under conditions that have sometimes been pretty hostile.

-- elskon (elskon@bigfoot.com), February 20, 2000.


I did not jump skip my post to the Gary Forum. If it is there, someone else did it. I am not puter smart enough to be L.L. from Hell! I signed off and read the paper. I don't lie, and hate to be lied about. Sorry, didn't write down handle used for that post.

-- Me (truth@forus.com), February 20, 2000.

What about all the derogatory comments made by the peanut gallery about the original poster? Any comments about that?

I don't get offended, mostly because I have a strong sense of self and don't feel threatened by things other than what I happen to believe. I also don't mind changing my beliefs if sufficient evidence is presented that a different opinion is superior to my own. I tend to defend anyone who is on the recieving end and the poster was recieving a whole lot more than they gave, in my opinion.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone needs to take a chill pill and stop being so damned easy to offend, and stop being nastier than the person who offended you. If their so bad don't drop to their level.

-- Just passin through (nobody@nowhere.com), February 20, 2000.



Have no idea what the other posts said. Only read the first one starting the thread. Case closed.

-- - (Sysops@the.delete.key), February 20, 2000.

Just passing though,

It appears evident you are not aware of all the religious posting on this forum. May be that is because you are just passing though. Those posts remained because they did not entail bigotry. I challenge you to review the following post.

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Hae

You will have to bookmark this site as it is impossible to read though in one setting. Let your eyes be opened.

Tommy...who loves his Lord and will say so, understanding this forum is not the place for religious bigotry nor ethnic insults upon those here without a face.

-- Tommy Rogers (Been there@Just a Thought.com), February 20, 2000.


Its your place. You can screw it up any way you want. I stay if its useful enough to me to put up with your rules. Same thing I tell my boss at work.

-- Just passin through (nobody@nowhere.com), February 20, 2000.

SYSPOS, your rule is that if three call for the removal, then it is done. So should the stance be that when three or more (used to be two) call for reposting, then, it also shall be done. Your call. Please post, as a new post, referencing to the original. Let our conscience be our guides. LOL, some akin me to L.L. from Hell! I am doing good to fix the paper jam. :-D

-- Me (truth@forus.com), February 20, 2000.

Hi xyz. Look, not to put you on the spot, but my post, i.e., "just because someone thinks that everyone evolved from slime and worships a rock and has faith that God is some universal force in all living and non-living things and all religions are the same and that there are no absolutes" was sardonic. It was intended to find out what your response would be in that you said in your first reply to Just Passin Through that you are a Christian. Remember John 14:6? It seems that like most people these days you were more concerned about how someone feels rather than about what is true, e.g.,...it doesn't matter what you believe in as long as you are sincere in what you believe. An individual's worldview, i.e., their set of beliefs, values, morality, etc., is directly reflected in their daily conduct and behavior and ultimately in our culture. Politics and religion cannot be seperated. The question is, who's religion and therefore beliefs, values and morality will prevail and will ultimately have a direct effect on our laws, culture, freedom and liberty? You know, how far are we from the day when the vast majority of "Americans" will say that the 224 year experiment was a waste of time when we could have cut straight to the chase and gone to communism? Christianity and communism cannot coexist. It would most definately appear that our American culture is quickly being conditioned to accept what our forefathers feared most- tyranny. Anyway, that's my two cents worth.

-- Just Wondering (whirledpeas@utopia.com), February 21, 2000.

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