Bush wins, get ready for another eight years of Democrat rule.

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

You got to be kidding me! Will the Republicans ever get it. Your only chance is Mccain.

When you get rid of the religeous right, then you will become a political party again.

Get ready for another eight years of Democrat rule.

On the other hand, gold goes balistic when the repubs come in.

Go repubs!!!!! Dipstick Momma's boy Bush all the way!

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 19, 2000

Answers

Heh, I like that new book title "If God had wanted us to vote, He would have given us candidates".

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), February 19, 2000.

Yessiree, but Al is an adopted Bush and word on da street says that Bradley is a not so distant cousin, but McCain gets confused and thinks he is Babs running around in that ridiculous gray afro showing pictures of the grandkids. Even Keyes looks like a Bush.

-- Wacko (one@of.many), February 19, 2000.

Why should we Republicans care what a democrat says, Infidel? How is weird Al Gore ever going to get elected? Oh yeah, I almost forgot, his charisma, LOL.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 19, 2000.

Hokie,

Don't know how you do it, but some times you hit the ten penny nail right on the head.

What a joke. The religeous right still thinks someone's going to take them seriously.

Observe gold!

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 19, 2000.


I don't have a clue who is going to end up being president but this whole obsession with McCain being elected by the Republican party I find really weird. Republicans are pretty conservative (even if you exclude the religious right). McCain has very few, if any, conservative issues in his campaign.

Has there been some new radical platform constructed by the conservative party when I wasn't watchin?

-- Lucy (lifeisgoodhere@webtv.net), February 19, 2000.



The repubs always need Democrat crossovers to get elected. Not with Bush my friend. You see, democrats greatly outnumber repubs, plus the dems have not forgotten the railroad job you tried on our duly elected president.

McCain is your only hope. The religeous right ain't going to help you.

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 19, 2000.


There you go again. By the way, not every democrat is going to vote for al gore.

-- jim smith (jwsmith@netscape.net), February 19, 2000.

Infidel,

Like George H. Bush got elected with lots of Democrat crossover voters? You're living in a dream world guy. Try this scenario on for size:

Democrats finally realize what a huge mistake electing Bill Clinton was, and their guilty consciences won't let them vote for weird Al.

You sound like a democrat that's just itching for McCain to get the nod, because you don't think weird Al can beat GW, but he has a shot at beating McCain.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 19, 2000.

Infidel, you truely are a maroon.

-- Roger (pecosrogX@earthlink.net), February 19, 2000.

After the disgusting effort of the Repubs to destroy Clinton, many repubs left the party. I use to be one when Reagon was our man. The repubs are not the same party. I don't know what they are.

Better Al Gore than a group that thinks they know how every one should think and live their lives. There lies the crux of your problem. Lose the self rigeous nonsense. It ain't working.

I personally would like to see the Repubs in power just so I can hear about the good old days under the evil Clinton. Of course, no one will remember.

The evil Clinton, he liked sex, unlike six billion others, but thats besides the point.

I can't wait for the bumper sticker's saying what an incompetent ass Bush is.

And so it goes.

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 19, 2000.



Or should I say, "Infidel, a moron you truly are."

-- Roger (pecosrogX@earthlink.net), February 19, 2000.

Hey Roger, J,

Roger Go to bed. J, I would vote for McCain over Gore. Despite my disgust with the Repubs. The man has a disturbing streak of character.

Bush, no life experience, much like those that depend on an unseen god to teach them the difference between right and wrong. Heaven is not here or there, it is spread out over the earth. You know?

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 20, 2000.


you are so right, infidel--everyone should live just like your heroes al and bill. imagine what a fun, caring place the world would be. especially if the restraints (the religious folks and republicans, etc) were taken off and bill and al could run things the way they want.

you can laugh and joke all you want about the religious right and yes, GOD, if you so choose (i have no idea how old you are) but you truly have my sympathy when your parents die, or your child turns to drugs, or your spouse leaves you, or you discover you have cancer and only a few months left to live. so who will comfort you then? who will you look to for consolation after you turn the lights out at night? and are you absolutely certain there is NO ONE or NOTHING to whom you must give account at the end of your life? good luck. your eternity may bring you exactly what you are looking for.

-- tt (cuddluppy@aol.com), February 20, 2000.


Infidel,

You seem to be rambling. Are you feeling OK?

Anyway, you stated that it was a disgusting attempt by the repubs to destroy Clinton. Wow, you are very confused. The only thing disgusting about that whole sordid affair was slick Willie's behavior.

Yes, six billion people or so like sex. What is your point? That because someone likes sex they can perjure themselves and do anything else that they want?

You really have no argument here. You just seem to be trolling for a conservative Republican to get fired up over your inane statements.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 20, 2000.

I (highly conservative) dislike Bush and McCain, and I hate having to chose either of them, although I dislike Bush MORE than McCain. I did like Keyes. It just seems so unfair that we are already pidgeon holed into a selection of one man because of two freakin' primaries. The media spends so much time focusing on front runners, the general public forgets it HAS other choices. It gives me a heartache already. I can't see anything ever changing ever anymore. Appearently I am among a small minority whose voice will never be heard. :-(

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), February 20, 2000.


The media has decided who will run for President after just a few primaries. Why do the remaining states waste their money on additional primaries? It looks like we will be stuck choosing between "Gush" & "Bore" Some choice!

-- me (disgusted@voter.com), February 20, 2000.

Infidel,

Based on the incoherency of your ramblings, I believe that you are not fully capable of discussion tonight.

I pray that you will feel better tomorrow.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 20, 2000.

Hah! Infidel and his love affair with the pinocchio president. What are you infidel? The president of rapists anonymous?

-- haha (haha@haha.com), February 20, 2000.

J, For christ sakes don't read my inane ramblings.

Kritter, Not a bible expert, somewhere I know it says. ' I do not delight in your burnt offerings'.

Thanks for being civil.

I guess the crux of my argument is that if I were god, I would think that my favorite creation, man, if he were like me, would protect those that can not protect themselves. something along those lines.

I see the religeous right, mostly concerned with their own salvation, and everyone should be just like me and to hell with the earth and my helpless creatures which I did not create for your intertainment or meals.

The animal thing is a sore spot with me. I'm still not completely vegetarian, but working on it.

Also: If the Repubs don't get McCain, they dont get anything.

Cheers,

Tedddriver@sprintmail.com

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 20, 2000.


Hey..I love animals..heck, my dogs and cat share my bed at night (much to my mother's horror). If you remove religion from the picture all together...early man just decided that THIS was something good to eat. His survival, previous to the agricultural era, depended on it. I don't know if we were meant to be carnivorous,..I know there's some debate on that (lack of sharp pointy teeth was one)...but it certainly seems like there is some "food chain" universal to the animal world, and we are only one small link in it. Perhaps the only thing that makes this a horrid thought to us is that we are at the top of it, and have very few predators out there in our DAILY lives that are looking to eat us.

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), February 20, 2000.

Infidel, I really am not a fan of Bush or McCain but was leaning towards McCain for (I think) all the right reasons until I started checking him out beyond your favorite spin. Just a couple of points raised that gave me pause to think..... makes you wonder and what his compadre's now say . Plus, if this country keeps going down hill as fast as it has, soon you, too will be looking to the Lord for a little bit of hope.

-- Roger (pecosrogX@earthlink.net), February 20, 2000.

Infidel,

Sorry about my last comments, I made them with the wrong intentions.

You said, "I guess the crux of my argument is that if I were god, I would think that my favorite creation, man, if he were like me, would protect those that can not protect themselves. something along those lines".

If that is the crux of your argument, how can you be so against the Christian right?

Is not just one unborn child more precious than all the animals of the earth? Who is more unable to protect themselves than an unborn baby?

Think hard and long about how hypocritical you are that you worry about animals, while not caring for babies.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 20, 2000.

Roger,

Kept my Y2K preps and have been adding to them slowly. I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm not religeous, I'm, just a little to left of the far left in the religion department.

Cheers,

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 20, 2000.


This really is a good thread you started, Infi, thanks.

Peace.

-- Roger (pecosrog@earthlink.net), February 20, 2000.


"if I were god, I would think that my favorite creation, man, if he were like me, would protect those that can not protect themselves"

What makes you think that we are God's favorite creation?

That reminds me of the early astronomers who assumed that the Earth was the center of the universe.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 20, 2000.


Hawk,

Since we are created in His image, I believe Infidel is correct in his assumption that we are God's favorite creation.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 20, 2000.

You guys are going to love this. Dead embryoes can take care of themselves. Living creatures can not.

Boy am I going to regret that statement.

Nothing like coors light and Tb2000 on a saturday night.

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 20, 2000.


"Since we are created in His image"

That is just another example of the blind egocentricity of the human species. God isn't into the image thing. God is everything, everywhere, forever. God is All that Is, so how could anything NOT be in his image?

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 20, 2000.


Infidel,

I stand by my earlier apology.

Not because you were right, but because my intentions were not right, as I sought to make you look like a fool.

You need no help from me to show the world that you are quite obviously a fool.

You may someday realize the folly of your ways. I pray that the Lord will call you to that realization.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 20, 2000.

Hawk,

Where do you get your concept of God?

The God I know created the earth, but He is not the earth.

Please expound on your concept of God.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 20, 2000.

The "McCain Momentum" has been a creation of the media, for simple reasons: they are all liberal democrats (except for the whole-hearted Marxists), and they know their own candidates are severely charisma-impaired and essentially unelectable. McCain is essentially a Democrat in republican clothing, with the added benefit of a lack of association with the disgusting piece of garbage currently occupying the White House.

Voila: McCain is a "man of principle", meaning he will spend lots of stolen money on dumbass social programs while conspiring with the Democrats in Congress to steal even more (from the "rich", of course).

Thank heaven South Carolinians didn't buy this line of cra

-- zardoz (scooby@doo.yeah), February 20, 2000.


Hawk,

I do not think we are gods favorite creation. Read my previous ramblings. That is what the religeous think.

I think we are all gods creation. Therefore we have no right to claim superiority over them, thus cook them.

I wonder what god really thinks about us? Of course tell that to a christian. With all of our religeous fanfare and rediculaus elaborate celebrations. It's all man made and nothing to do with God.

A quick story: I had a small heart attack three years ago. complete with open heart surgery. All my friends deserted me. Fear I guess, like I had become someone else.

I knew it was not the end, I was lying on the operating table watching the surgeon playing with the steaks that he was going to use to spread my ribs with. I ask him if he could do something about this double chin while he was at it. He smiled.

Have you ever heard how you become seriously depressed after such an event. I did, I was preparing to die at 41. I thought it was over. I lied in bed for three days preparing to die. It didn't matter any more.

After three days my 17 year old cat already in deep kidney failure jumped upon me and nudged me hard like she had never done before. She was not hungry, she was angry.

I decided that If I didn't give a damn about myself, I could at least see about the one's I loved. I got up. I'm still up, changed my lifestyle. I've never been more healthy. The religeous right still pisses me off.

My point is: My little stupid friend who has no soul, made her point to me very clear. I spent thousands caring for her through her ordeal with kidney desease. She lived two years beyond what the doctors said she would. That cat was a special event in my life.

The treatment of animals are a sore point with me.

You do not stand a chance without John McCain.

Cheers,

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 20, 2000.


J, the Earth is a living part of God, as is everything. The seas, the skies, the stars, the creatures, all part of His creation. Everything appears different because we live at different energy levels. The Earth may seem dead when compared to humans, but that is how it has managed to exist for billions of years, while the human species may be just a brief spark in this cosmic laboratory.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 20, 2000.

Hawk,

That is an interesting take on who and what God is. Where did you formulate it? I mean, is this something you just thought up on your own, or have you been influenced by some teachings/writings?


Infidel,

Have you no shame, man? The treatment of animals is a sore spot with you. What about the treatment of people? Or if you are going to take that stance, what about the poor barley and hops plants that were killed so that the fine people at Coors could help you get drunk tonight? You are a hypocrite. Your points are indefensible.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 20, 2000.

J, I am a recovering Catholic, and this is what I have always known in my soul to be true. I also recommend a book titled "Conversations with God", which does a better job of explaining this. I really liked it because it was what I already knew but had never seen it put into words quite so well.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 20, 2000.

J, good night, sleep tight.

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 20, 2000.

Infidel,

You realize that your cat has no soul; why can't you see that humans are obviously greater in God's eyes since we have souls?


Hawk,

I don't feel the same way that you do about who God is.

I believe He is the Creator, not the created.

In that, a bit of an artist can be found in his work, so can you see God in everything that He has created. But we should no more consider the earth or the sky equal to God, than we should consider a painting equal to the painter.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 20, 2000.

It is the spirit of God in our souls that makes us part of and one with God. The physical world is an illusion, just atoms being moved by energy. The spiritual energy is our true existence, not the matter which is moved by it, or the paint on the canvas. Do you not see that the spirit of Picasso still exists in his paintings, or Mozart in his music? In response to this idea that we are the favorite part of God's creation, I think that is ludicrous, and accuses God of discrimination. He loves all equally.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 20, 2000.

I believe that all animals have a soul. I believe that you will answer to "St Pete at the pearly gates" regarding how you have treated animals during your life; just as you will answer as to how you have treated people and this beautiful earth.

-- lurker (lurker@lurk.net), February 20, 2000.

If there were no god, humans would invent one. The human condition cries out for a belief that some one else cares for us, will protect us in dangerous times, will guide us in confusing times, and will be there in the morning when we awaken (die).

That the instinctual need for a god-belief is part of the human condition is made obvious by any study of different human cultures. Humans spontaneously create god-beliefs, and then just as rapidly presume that their god is uniquely powerful and protective. Yet all god-beliefs provide for the same set of needs noted above.

Now, as with any human emotion, some feel the emotion more stronghly than others, and environmental conditioning also must play a part. For example, some people are just more capable of love than others, and some who are less capable may be strengthened by association will more loving partners and/or parents. Just so with the need for a god-belief.

As a species, we must come to the conclusion that god-beliefs are neither good nor bad. Those people that need a god-belief should have one. We should not lower our opinion of a good christian or hindu, for example, any more than we would think less of a great romantic poet.

Likewise, those who do not have a strong god-belief need, should not have a god-belief forced upon them. No god-belief should be used as a reason for limiting the rights of others - including the right to be free of religion in our everday lives and to be free of the scorn which the needy so imperiously meet out on those not of their faith.

Sincerely,

-- Uhhmmm... (JFCP81A@aol.com), February 20, 2000.


Dear Uhmmmm:

In my opinion, you are precisely correct.

-- lurker (lurker@lurk.net), February 20, 2000.


Zardov. I think you have it nailed dead on. This ongoing slide into marxism isn't going to be halted by an sequence of events I can imagine, until it hits bottom. I say give them enough rope and let them hang themselves. These tax and spend socialist just need to be allowed unfettered access to the cookie jar for about five years and we will be completely bankrupted. Tax rates will jump to 100 percent and everybody will work for the government either directly or via one of the nationalized industries, private property will become extinct, and we'll all live in government housing and ride government busses. There will be security cameras in your bedroom monitored by your next door neighbor, until his shift ends and you monitor the cameras in his bedroom. We'll keep a lid on those nasty wages to stave off inflation until our standard of living has dropped to the level of our sister state Ethiopia. Having been fully disarmed we'll meekly hand over our wives and daughters to maurading bands of illiterate atheistic displaced citizens, who are merely misunderstood, while we are hauled off for re-education for thought crimes. Perhaps before it hits full bottom we'll be treated to one of those socialist specialties, a holocaust. This time with Christians as the featured group. I see the future, and it is dressed as a riot control goon squad run by James Le Witt in drag.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), February 20, 2000.

kritter, I am fairly conservative myself. Have you ever considered voting for a third party candidate? Or considered Keyes as a write- in? I assure you it is not a waste of your vote.

-- Butt Nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), February 20, 2000.

Uhhmmm,

As on another thread where I have enjoyed your contribution, I am delighted by your clarity of style and ameliorative tone. Not to mention your ability make your point directly and simply...and briefly.

More of us, myself included, would do well to emulate your presentation.

-- (First=Last@Last.=First), February 20, 2000.


Of course cats have souls, as do all living creatures.

And God is real and knowable. The Divine Romance, the soul's highest most-craved experience. Most ppl are far too diverted to ever get a glimpse ...

New 'n improved pollytick candidates would be a relief, but looks like USA is stuck with two sons who both feel entitled and groomed to hop to Big Power riding a silver spoon.

Weird to go into the new year / decade / century / millennium with this "choice" back to the past. Just feels sorta backward, but maybe ppl need that for "stabilizing comfort" during "progress."

Are humanimals God's favorite creatures? Hhhhmmmm, probably more like God's grossest headache. The potential is great, but the reality of humanimal misbehavior is appalling. Would you create a world just to have the lumbering pink furless apes destroy it and chop-fire-kill the other inhabitants to extinction?

We would be terrified to presume that we were God's favorite creation, and certainly won't be telling that to Him to His face.

When we're in the Lord's Presence we don't exactly feel like blowing it with absurd arrogant statements ... ;^)

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), February 20, 2000.


"Uhhmmm,

As on another thread where I have enjoyed your contribution, I am delighted by your clarity of style and ameliorative tone. Not to mention your ability make your point directly and simply...and briefly.

More of us, myself included, would do well to emulate your presentation.

-- (First=Last@Last.=First), February 20, 2000."

This has got to be either Uhhmmm giving himself a compliment, or one hell of a brown-noser troll.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 20, 2000.


There are over 6 billion belief systems on our planet, and just as an electron is both particle and wave, each belief system or "reality tunnel" is equally valid and invalid simultaneously: valid to the individual who owns the particular belief system, and invalid to essentially all others. In a similar fashion, normalcy is that which every man approximates, but which no man is.

Correspondingly, there are many "gods", and many "spiritual planes". We see the evidence of their interaction through synchronicity, dreams, psychedelic drugs, extreme meditation, religious awakenings, and paranormal effects such as OOBEs, UFOs, ESP, and a host of other phenomena that are, like the electron, at the same time both real and imaginary -- like a fractal image, an intelligent design which appears when a simple equation is plotted in the mathematical model of the intersection of real and imaginary numerological space (the Complex Plane).

The analogy of Life is a painting. Religion is the canvas. Science is the paint. The brush represents the understanding we will eventually obtain, an understanding that will be as advanced over science as science now seems over religion. Reality is the subject of the painting, and when we are finally able to view it, God is what we will see.

The one Universal Truth is that God is Love. Everything else is either a belief system, or a higher truth which cannot be expressed in words or symbols, but must be experienced firsthand, such as a fine wine, woman, or song.

-- Kundalini (thoughts@cloud.com), February 20, 2000.


Hawk,

My email address is real, not virtual. Drop me a line. Mention birds in the subject line, and it will not be filtered.

Sincerely,

-- Uhhmmm... (JFCP81A@aol.com), February 20, 2000.


So what Uhhmmm, that doesn't stop you from posting a compliment to yourself under another name does it? I'm not saying that is what you did, but if you didn't, then somebody is doing some serious sucking up to you! :-)

Now, back to the subject at hand. If you really want to know the real George W. Bush, read all of the articles provided at this site...

www.georgebush2000.com/

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 20, 2000.


I am blushing. Still wish you would write, however.

Sincerely,

-- Uhhmmm... (JFCP81A@aol.com), February 20, 2000.


BTW, italics off (hoping to use some of that TEST thread experience now).

-- Uhhmmm... (JFCP81A@aol.com), February 20, 2000.

One more try, in case I miscounted the original count. Gee, I hope this is deep enough in the day that no one will notice.

-- Uhhmmm... (JFCP81A@aol.com), February 20, 2000.

Italics off!

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 20, 2000.

Hawk,

I see... I think. In any case:

Thanks,

-- Uhhmmm... (JFCP81A@aol.com), February 21, 2000.


Uhhmmm, sorry didn't mean to make you think that link was intended for you. Since the shrub lovers probably aren't going to change their ways, the information was provided for any of those who are thinking about becoming shrub lovers. Wake up and smell the corruption.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), February 21, 2000.

Hawk,

No offense taken. We are often on the same side of the arguement, and I do not want to PO the few minds on this forum of similar bent.

I know it is dificult to get past the distrust on the forum (we are, after all, doomers). But I was developing a conspiracy theory regarding First, and your comments jogged some thoughts. It is too wierd to discuss online, but I thought a passing effort to discuss it offline would be interesting.

Ah well, I look forward to reading many more of your posts. Thanks for the continuing HTML lessons.

Sincerely,

-- Uhhmmm... (JFCP81A@aol.com), February 22, 2000.


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