Warning Red Alert!!!--Mutual Funds and Retirement Plans. I would suggest anyone reading this that has an investment in any type of "Fund"(retirement plans--whatever) that is under the control of managers or a team of managers to strongly suggest to the management of the "Fund" to immediately place 10% to 20% in physical Gold, or switch to physical Gold,fund guidelines permitting.(NOT PAPER GOLD).AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!! Tell them you believe a stock market correction is imminent and a financial crisis may be close at hand. Quote some of the information gathered here if pressed for a reason. Spread the "Rumor" you heard about Goldman Sachs the worlds largest Investment Banking Company.

Some big IF's: If the rumor's concerning Goldman Sachs are true( they may be in financial trouble) there are two things that could happen: First thing; The FED and the rest of the financial world bails them out-AH-LA-LTCM and everyone gets a reality jolt,or; Second thing;Goldman Sachs goes into default, significantly changing the investment world as we now know it.

Remember so far it's only rumors, but better safe with your investments than sorry. For What It's Worth.....beesting.

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 05, 2000

Answers

You're wrong Infidel. Inflation is dead. The government said so. Why buy physical assets when you can buy shares of money-losing .com stocks? After all, this is the new economy. Making money doesn't matter anymore. :)

-- X (X@X.com), February 05, 2000.

for the individual investor, silver is still a great bargain.

-- Porky (Porky@in.cellblockD), February 05, 2000.

I'm talkling about the possibility that Goldman Sachs could be in serious trouble because they have been caught with their gold shorts down.

Rumor is usually the only thing investors have to go on in the markets. If Sachs can't cover thier shorts, what do you think will be the effect in the way this market operates already treading the edge.

I did not post this to promote gold. But, as a heads up alert. Pay attention between the CNBC lines in the days that follow.

Cheers,

-- Infidel (Barbarians@thegate.net), February 05, 2000.

We are seeing the same rumor run-up we saw a cpouple years ago with LTCM. the same "bubbling under" and the same type of crescendo. The volume is even the same. The only thing is, I don't know if ANYONE can bail out G-S.

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 05, 2000.

Didn't Goldman short bonds, too? Plus, why were they still shorting gold after what happened in October? Does this make sense? PLus, remember someone said that Goldman had been public once before--right before the crash? After that, the company somehow folded and went private again.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), February 06, 2000.

Chuck, you are drivin' a good point: Goldman Sachs may be so much LARGER than LTCM that it may not be possible to bail them. Plus, you have to add Chase to the mix in the US. In Europe, the Deutsche Bank of Germany is rumored to be in the same boat. Somebody is going to have to do some serious wheeling and dealing to bail this thing out.

When I heard that Sachs was a big buyer right before the spike I realized something must be, "up". I just got the feeling they must be trying to cover their slimey asses.

Maybe Abby Cohen should just give the board a speech about how bullish things look in the stock market.

-- paul leblanc (bronyaur@gis.net), February 06, 2000.

Can anyone tell us who operates an IRA that invests in physical?

-- Russ (aa2gs@isoc.net), February 06, 2000.

I find it extremely hard to believe that Goldman Sachs, the company Ex Secretary of the Treasury Robert Rubin headed up, did not discuss and agree with the current Treasury department's actions with regard to their 30 year bond buy back program.

I also find it hard to believe they (GoldmanSachs) did not thoroughly understand the ramifications of these actions by the Treasury department.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), February 06, 2000.

Porky- what can you tell us about silver? and are there any stocks you like? Have you ever done silver options? I'm a newcomer to commodities so please talk down to me!

Crow

-- Crow (suzan@monad.net), February 06, 2000.

Ray - Agreed, the treasury department isn't going to drop a bomb without giving fair notice. The treasury department is aware of the derivative markets and they know what happened with LTCM. Every government agency is going to tip toe around so that the record expansion continues. No one wants to be responsible for rocking the boat.

However, I wish I knew if it was just a rumor that caused gold to skyrocket $23 in one day.

-- Guy Daley (guydaley@bwn.net), February 06, 2000.

Ray, your point is understandable, logical, and well taken. But... in the history of mankind many important events have happened despite their apparent 'logic' or lack of it.

For example, I also find it hard to believe that the LCTM episode could ever take place. Top management of LCTM (the best in the world) shoulda known better... They didn't, did they?

Only a week ago the world's top leaders and grey matter met in Davos and discussed absolutely every nit-picking ever loving subject OTHER than the upcoming, adjacent Austrian situation which could turn out to be disastrous for Europe's finances, etc.

So, life goes on and the 'Goldman Sachs' of this world could happen, sometimes, despite... Is it this time? We'll all see.

Take care

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), February 06, 2000.

Guy and George, it just may be that "Derivatives" will be the iceberg for this mania. Since there is little or no regulation of this industry it may not have been understood by TPTB, then again it could have been very well understood.

Your Perception all depends on how you view the "Big Picture".

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), February 06, 2000.

Here is a current article on "Derivatives"from the Gold Eagle site:

BANK DERIVATIVES EXPOSURE

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), February 06, 2000.

American Church Trust in Texas will hold ya IRA in precious metals......Monex i believe is also doing the same service.....duppy

-- duppy (duppyi5446@aol.com), February 06, 2000.

The unfortunate reality is this: The global financial community ( not just the good ol` U.S. of A.) currently utilizes a "fractional reserve"( or some form thereof ),"fiat" digital currency based system. The currency producers will continue creating this digital money out of thin air for as long as there exists a demand for this medium of exchange. Or at least until hyperinflation raises its ugly head- whichever comes first.

-- NoJo (RSKeiper@aol.com), February 06, 2000.

A gold newbie has a question, please: If a person invests in gold coins, are there certain countries coins that are worth more than others (assuming same coinage, at 1/10 oz., such as a Maple Leaf, Eagle, Kangaroo or Krugerand)?

Thanks!

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), February 06, 2000.

Deb, Australia, Canada, USA, and So.Af. coins are available in 1 , 1/2, 1/4, and 1/10th ounce. By far and away the Kruggerrand, Eagle and Maple are the most popular. The Kruggerand usually has a lower premium over spot than the Eagle or Maple. The one ounce is the standard coin. All fractionals have a much higher premium and the smaller the coins the greater the premium. Please not that this premium occurs on both selling and buying, so you do get some of it back, hopefully, depending on market forces. Some times it is very difficult to get delivery on fractionals. Yes you can purchase gold bars that have lower premium than the coins, but these are specialty items for most gold coin dealers.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), February 06, 2000.

Ray,

The charts at the end of your link are eerily alike. What's the quote? "Those who don't learn from past mistakes are doomed to repeat them." Or something to that effect.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), February 06, 2000.

Ken,

Thanks for the info. about the premiums - definitely good advice for the long-term investment. I'd been wondering if the higher purity coins (Maple Leaf and Krugerand) would be worth more long-term than the Eagle BUT also had heard that only the Eagles are allowed into IRA's (decisions, decisions)... I'd heard that 5%-10% of one's portfolio should be invested in phyical silver, gold or platinum. Hopefully there is still time for folks to reproportion their portfolios.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), February 07, 2000.

Russ,

There is a specialty mutual fund, Central Fund of Canada (CEF), that holds mostly gold & silver bullion that one may use in one's self-directed IRA.

-- Nathan (nospamwh@tsoever.moc), February 07, 2000.

There is only one form of physical gold or silver that can be held in an IRA: American Eagle coins. The premiums on the silver coins are so high as to make using them for this purpose nonsensical, but the one-ounce gold Eagles aren't too bad in that respect.

-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), February 07, 2000.