U.S. Census-- Invasion Of Privacy?!

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

My daughter just received her second Census Bureau survey("missplaced the first one"!), and i am shocked at the questions we are required by law to answer. It has been over 20 yrs. since i saw a questionaire and i sure don't remember the questions being as invasive as these are. This thing is 21 pages long and has 41 questions! Has the usual questions such as name,sex,d.o.b.,marital status, race, etc. But also includes questions such as: Amt of mortgage,value of property,is there a second mortgage or home equity loan on this property (amt's of these monthly),name & address of place of employment,if that person is unemployed, did they look for work or turn down a job? And of course they want to know all income and amt. These questions must be answered in full for up to 5 household members! Is anyone else as disturbed by these questions as i am? If we are required by law(as stated on the survey) what are the penalties for refusing to fill it out? Both my daughter and i feel strongly enough about this that we have considered legal advice(waste of time?). I know this will probably give some of you serious heartburn, but please don't flip out on us too bad as we are truly bugged by this survey! thanks!

-- dory (crtwheel@eburg.com), January 27, 2000

Answers

The Constitution states that they have to count the number of people. That`s all, as far as I know. Anybody else?

-- Earl (earl.shuholm@worldnet.att.net), January 27, 2000.

The American Constitution just mandates a head count! The Communist Manifesto and our Cradle to Grave globalist - socialist government probably requires the remainder of the questions that are being asked.

If some of the questions are too personal -- perhaps you could pull a Clinton and just 'forget' or simply ignore 'em. Just remember to keep that cheery smile.

-- Smiley (FaceTo@Bureaucrats.com), January 27, 2000.


one year we got one of the long ones and didn't answer it because we felt they were asking way too much personal stuff and when they sent out the census worker to get the answers we told them the people who lived here were out of town and we were just checking on the house for them... that was the end of that

-- makeitup (makeitup@funwiththecensus.com), January 27, 2000.

So do they supply the syringe for the blood sample for your DNA? Man, I'm floored! I've heard people saying to refuse to participate *period* don't even let them count how many are in your house. I don't know why they feel that way, and don't know what their consequences will be if they don't chicken out last minute.

Dory, let me know what consequences you hear. This is worse than Echelon in the sense that it feels real, the questions and threat of persecution right their in your hand, as opposed to a random virtual bloodhound looming in cyberspace.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 27, 2000.


bitch came out to the house in 90, i told her to go fuck herself, actually, i just lied....

-- INever (inevercheckmy@onebox.com), January 27, 2000.


Over on Michael Hyatt's board it was said that there was up to a $100 fine for not answering all the questions and up to a $500 fine for lying. There is quite a thread developing on the Census 2000. I guess I'll start saving up the $100.

-- Just Curious (jnmpow@flash.net), January 27, 2000.

Want your education, diplomas you have?

$100 -- fine for each skipped question

$500 -- fine for giving an incorrect answer

If you don't mail it back, they will come to your house

According to Chris Gerner's current guest 11:35pm EST @:

http://gcnlive.2z.net/

http://gcnlive.2z.net/

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 27, 2000.


List your income, all sources including profits, dividends, income from trust, how many weeks worked in 1999, all info on 1040EZ, info on your employer. No fire arms questions...(still from radio show...)

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 27, 2000.

How will they determine an incorrect answer? Perhaps I'll lie my fool head off on all the questions and help foul up their precious database.

-- JIT (justintime@rightnow.net), January 27, 2000.

All those bastards will get from me are the names and ages of family members, our occupations (not WHERE we work), and what political affiliation we have.

They can BLOW ME for the rest. I'll pay the bucks before I'll give them ONE ADDITIONAL answer. (Actually, I'm REALLY tempted to wait them out, and go to court over the whole thing. I'll bring a copy of the relevent section of the Constitution, and ask the judge "Where does it say that I have to tell them all this stuff?" Then just let the chips fall where they may...)

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), January 27, 2000.



If you flat out refuse, consequences unknown as of yet to guest on show. Even if you tell them by the constitution there are X folks here and the rest you don't need to know...

Head of household will get fined if wife lies to census person

They can go to your neighbor if they suspect you are giving false info

tubs, showers, number of rooms, do you have fire and hazard insurance? how many rooms do you have in your house (guest suspects so FEMA can relocate)

...talking of financial info on census (conspiracy angle) given to UN for wealth redistribution (so cut to chase and send me your money in advance, hehe)

Caller saying he will quiz census person (is this a democracy or constitutional republic? will this info be used in the consumer (blah blah..bill or law? didn't catch all)...

Host imagining noncompliance, will result in your e-cash not working, can't buy gas,...Guest "Nancy Thompson" Whoever confirms suspicion of purpose of info...

Show goes on for 2+ more hours...till 2am EST

Federal Uses of Censes Data-fed reserve, eeoc, dept of justice, all the feds, doe, epa, usda, etc etc---

prep for national id cards?

school system using to decide what occupations (used for "Goals 2000", gov assigns persons to jobs (Hokie--USSR did this))

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 27, 2000.


JIT, they can cross reference with IRS, etc...

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 27, 2000.

Here is what the Constitution says:

Article I Section 2 Clause 3: "The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct."

I think all those questions come from the last 6 words...

-- -me- (me@inmy.net), January 27, 2000.


5000 UN conferences a year around world

one last Sept looked at future of world, culture--calling for world gov due to injustice of distribution of weath globally and policies, want to work all world's probs together

commission on global governance (ie one world gov)

with international criminal court that has jurisdiction over us supreme, then nafta court, then one other before the highest court of the land which is now the UN International Criminal Court...

Well, I gotta get some sleep---12 here; anyone else listening now to the show, if you wanna pick up transcribing if anyone is interested in following but don't have capabilities, ....night all.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 27, 2000.


---me

Can I print that for my front door, with the caption "there are 2, so take off, 'eh"?

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 27, 2000.



If you don't send it back, and they visit you, just don't answer the door. What are they going to do? Break down the door and interrogate you? Hah.

Or put a sign on the door that says that you are a deaf-mute, so please write down all you want to say, and put it under the door...:)

They only have the right to know how many people, and that's it.

-- Bill (billclo@msgbox.com), January 27, 2000.


Just go to the Social Security Administration and ask, "How many people have Social Security numbers that aren't dead?" Cross-merge this with the credit bureau databases, which already illegally key everything by Social Security number. That should give them all the data they're asking for. Anyone not covered in that number probably won't answer the Census anyway. Unless of course, the FedGov is merely attempting to demonstrate they have the 'right' to stick their noses in everyone's face.

-- Nathan (nospam@all.com), January 28, 2000.

Hokie, $100 PER question? Yikes! I'm gonna need a second job a fourth job.

-- Just Curious (jnmpow@flash.net), January 28, 2000.

All these data-bases are toast.

>"<

-- Squirrel Hunter (nuts@upina.cellrelaytower), January 28, 2000.


The Census is an illegal invasion of privacy. I have NEVER answered any questions (throw the forms out) and the last fool who knocked on my door got chased across the front yard.

Toss the forms and don't answer your door to strangers.

-- Irving (irvingf@myremarq.com), January 28, 2000.


We have not received our census form yet, but I am appalled at what I've heard here. From me, they will be getting some sketchy answers at best. Gosh, government proctology is a growth industry, no?

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), January 28, 2000.

I haven't received any forms -- long or short -- either. Maybe I've finally fallen off their radar screen. Maybe I'm now officially an "unperson." Maybe now I won't feel obliged (under penalty of law) to divulge to them that I prefer triple-pepperoni pizza to fried Spam with pineapple sauce and was once a practicing thespian. I can live with that.

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), January 28, 2000.

For any questions you don't want to answer just write "I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky". You're answering the question and you're not lying. You're just not giving the answer they want (grin). It worked for Clinton in front of a federal judge, why shouldn't it work for you??

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), January 28, 2000.


There is a mandate in the Constitution for a head count. But no Constitutional law that you have to tell them ANYTHING. Let them count you, if they see you. I've been through a few censi, and since they "won't understand" if you just tell them how many you are, but refuse to answer their unauthorized and intrusive questions, I find it effective just to "never be home" for any of it.

Exercise your freedom and right to silence -- just say NO.

-- A (A@AisA.com), January 28, 2000.


That sh_t will be burned in the fireplace. Subsequent sh_it of that nature will be burned in the fireplace. Knocker of the door will be shot and burned in the fireplace.

-- Charli (claypool@belatlantic.net), January 28, 2000.

Before we get too excited about follow-ups at the door, consider WHO is so desparate as to take a Census Door-knockin' job. I doubt these folks are THAT highly motivated; if they are like the property tax appraisers I had a few years ago, do NOT worry. This woman stood in a neighbor's unfenced yard and did a 360 turn to jot notes on all houses within eyeshot.

I challenged my appraisal, and asked for an itemized listing or description of my property. They had my slab ranch house listed with a basement among other things...chop, chop, chop...and the tax did drop.

I will be mindful of the capabilities of a temp. census taker who is not paid much and probably not too motivated either. When the counting is done, they will return to unemployment office.

I wouldn't worry about getting tracked down with an "inaccurate" answer either. In 1990, they couldn't ever decide totals of people. Lots of contesting the "final" count. This is not a "well-oiled" operation, if you know what I mean!

Regards,

-- (He Who) Rolls with Punches (JoeZi@aol.com), January 28, 2000.


1) Consider the consequences of not at LEAST telling them how many and what ages live in the house. You help under report the population in your legislative district, helping reduce the representation your neighborhood needs.

You ALSO provide ammunition for the rediculous proposition that the figures need to be "statistically adjusted" to handle "Under-counts" of various groups, so that THEY can get THEIR proportional representation. And you by GOD want YOUR representation proportional, don't you???

Fergawdsake at LEAST answer the enumeration questions. Any of hte others you are uncomfortable about then don't.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 28, 2000.


I have given a bit of thought to the census, and have come to the conclusion that, given our FEDGOV's great interest in racial/ victim groupings, I am encouraging all native born Americans to list themselves as "Native Americans." I was born and raised in this country, and it's high time that we stop this hypenated nonsense and list ourselves simply as Americans whenever we're asked by whatever survey or census.

-- Paul Urquhart (paulurquhart@worldnet.att.net), January 28, 2000.

Ain't no PO Box at Kook manor, no address sign, no nothin'. I don't think my house actually exists except in my mind, what's left of it.

No problemo,

Kook

-- Y2Kook (Y2Kook@usa.net), January 28, 2000.


Kook has the best answer. Don't be where
they can find you.

As for not answering the questions, they
will send a motivated person to your door
to get more info. If they believe you are
lying or you still refuse they will send
their supervisor. If you still refuse, you
will be prosecuted. Note that payment of the
fine for not answering the questions does not
relieve you of the burden to answer the questions.

Write your congresspersons today and complain
about this invasion of privacy. Get the law
changed!

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), January 28, 2000.


I don't know why you are all so down on the census. If it hadn't been for these records, I would not have been able to trace my family history. The 1900 census asked question about income, property value, etc., and so did some of the others.

Through these records I have found relatives all over the world and have kept in touch with them.

IF you think by lying on these records, you will preserve your identity, think again. All I have to do is go to US Search.com and your life is at my fingertips.

By not filing proper records, you are doing you descendants a great disservice.

-- (I'm@pol.ly), January 28, 2000.


Spider has made a good point as far as writing to your Congressperson about issues which are of concern to an individual.

Congressional Email Directory http://www.webslingerz.com/jhoffman/congress-email.html

-- Dee (T1Colt556@aol.com), January 28, 2000.


Another genealogist heard from - the 1860 US Federal census listed how much real estate and how much personal property in dollars....and the census taker was usually known to everyone as he was a neighbor. Then the 1885 and 1895 State Agricultural censuses for some states list even how many cows, chickens, goats, acres farmed, crops grown etc. The early British censuses used to list how many windows in each house if house was owned as this was a method for estimating what tax people should pay.

The Canadian census is relativelty probing too, but I have never seen one, just remember lots of complaints...and people born in Canada suggested also putting Native/Canadian born rather than their ethnic origin. We also hate the hyphenated Canadian name. (but my friends can call me Pommie-Aussie-Canajun) or Can-austra-pom).

-- Laurane (familyties@rttinc.com), January 28, 2000.


Here's the url of the Michael Hyatt thread; very interesting: http://www.michaelhyatt.com/discuss/ubb/Forum37/HTML/000024.html

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@terragon.com), January 28, 2000.

Link to the forms...

www.census.gov/dmd/www/infoquest.html

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), January 28, 2000.


No one seems to remember the inalienable (God given and not government given) rights that were added to the U.S.Constitution so that it would finally, after much argument and fear, be signed. If the 2000 Census Questionaire is as invasive and potentially punitive as reported here, it violates the U.S.Constitution in a number of ways. 1. Article IV -The right to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures..... (The right to privacy) When information is mandated (required) from you, under a penalty, it amounts to a "search" without warrant and without "probable cause". By the way, signing it, as you would sign an IRS 1040 form, waives this right and the right to Constitutional protection. 2. Article V - .....no one shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself. Signing a Form 1040 waives your Fifth Amendment protection and perhaps would on these Census 2000 forms. We don't know if these forms could be used to build a criminal case on us. Government seizures are, in fact, taking place simply because the source of wealth is not known, and therefore suspect.(Possible drug wealth) 3. Article VIII ......excessive fines shall not be imposed (I doubt if you have the Hollywood crowd willing to pay your legal fees as they do Bill Clinton's) The fines mentioned above are excessive. We Americans for the most part, are so uninformed, and so arrogant in our naivete, comfort and wealth. If you really, really understand the U.S. Constitution, the Federal Government and the Court system, you would know that the U.S.Constitution and it's Inalienable Rights, that hundreds of thousands of patriots gave up their lives for, has been usurped. And don't believe for a minute that Attorneys know anything about Constitutional Law or that Constitutional arguments will stand up in our court systems. The courts are no longer about the "Common Law" that our forefathers valued and honored. I've finally come to realize that the vast majority of so-called "Americans" want to believe all the comfortable lies we have been fed over the years. Bless those of you on this forum who are still struggling to find the truth. The "truth" has been buried alive

Glen

-- glen curtis (catherin@ipa.net), January 28, 2000.


Here is the URL of the Census 2000 FAQ list: http://www.census.gov/dmd/www/faqquest.htm It's probably just as well to start your inquiries here, then check the other pages at the Census website.

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@terragon.com), January 28, 2000.

Yeah, all I plan to do is answer the questions I want to answer and the hell with the rest! Perhaps they plan to sell the answers to mortgage lenders, telemarketers, even snitch on us to the unemployment bureau and on and on...

-- Bob Morgan (Whitwatr2@earthlink.net), January 28, 2000.

Chuck -- If you answer ANY of the questions, you have to answer them all. Just as with the income tax, it's better not to file at all than to file with "fraudulent" info. In both cases, if you enter into the game, then you assent to the rules. You have a right to privacy, personal and financial, regardless of all their fascistic laws which violate such rights. The not insignifcant fact that the corrupt judicial system upholds such violations, does not mean the rights don't exist.

As far as the "undercount" and statisical "adjustments" -- so what? You don't think they're not going to try to screw you anyway?

-- A (A@AisA.com), January 28, 2000.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ