Based on my long experience on this forum [and others], I have made the following observation over time. Posters can be divided into four groups. One small group hates technology and modern life. They want to return to the hard scrabble, frontier life of the 1700s. A second small group is totally dependent upon technology and opposes the first mentioned group. The third, and very large group, is in between. They dont want to leave large metropolitan areas but they dont want things to stay the way they are. Their jobs require this. They dont want to totally break away; but dont know how to partially break away. The fourth group is Deiter [who knows what this means]. This ignores those who just post nothing as a hobby. I am cryptic. This could be expanded into a Meyer post, but the Goobers is more my style. What is you opinion? By the way, for me I know what it is all about. As I type, I am watching ~20 wild turkeys walk through the oak/hickory woods behind my house on to the totally frozen pond. I may be in technology, but I still am in wonder of nature!

Best

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000

Answers

Hey Z Have no idea what I am but am amazed by nature too, as I type got about 5 bucks and 10 does, right out in the yard where we feed them, and water them, is dry here in Texas.

-- sandy (rstyree@overland.net), January 26, 2000.

And then there boring crap that no one gives a F.....F... about!

-- GAGME (with@spoon.argh), January 26, 2000.

Gagme:

I guess you belong to the group totally dependent on technology; but obviously not totally dependent on grammar and sentence structure!

Best wishes,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

I am actually dependent upon the sale of the high priced items you pastoral ninnies need to survive.

-- GAGME (with@spoon.argh), January 26, 2000.

Gagme:

Interesting. There is nothing that is sold that I need to survive. Maybe you could be more specific. It is obvious that your job does not involve writing. Maybe you could be more specific. In contrast, you could go to one of the boards where attacks are the main course.

Best wishes,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

Gag Don't need it to survive, like it kinda like a cold beer and a smoke now and then. Deer are much more interesting then gagging on you.

-- sandy (rstyree@overland.net), January 26, 2000.

I am in the third group. You described me to a T. Very insightful.

-- reading (homebound@in.snow), January 26, 2000.

As I write I am looking out the window at the snow studded peaks of the Cascades. A flock of geese are flying by and turkey vultures are riding the air waves, and the dog down the street just took a big dump on my property. Oh well, such is life and nature.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 26, 2000.

As one who lives in the jungle (in a comfortable home) on the garden island of Kaua'i (hardly an urban environment!), raises chickens (for egggs), fights the jungle for a garden, uses computers incessantly (over a third of a century as a computer professional + writing (word processing) +++), I don't see where I fit in to your neat catigorizations. I suspect that many of us are in this category (none of the above!).

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), January 26, 2000.

Bardou:

I don't remember which part of the NW you live in. I spend a lot of time in the area. If you are looking at the snow covered Cascades at this time of the year, the weather must be good. If you can see the dog, it must be great weather ;o). Love the area. By the way, can you see the Olympics? Of course if you are in Oregon you can't.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

Mad One:

"neat catigorizations". Of course you are correct; but we have to start somewhere and find where others fit or don't fit. Good jungle living!

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

Z,

People *might* fit into being described by these groups, but the groups wouldn't truly describe the people in them. A person on this forum has (hopefully) many aspects to their lives, and therefore would fit into many classifications.

If what you mean is that posters fall into these groups that are relevant to TB2000, that may be more accurate, but you could also add troll vs. polly; poster vs. lurker; nuts vs. professionals vs. concerned citizens etc.

Not to become a Meyer's post, but to point out that although one group classification may apply to posters, others probably do too.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.com), January 26, 2000.

"CATIGORIZATIONS" Look that up in your Merriam Webster.

-- Gag Me (with@spoon.argh), January 26, 2000.

By-the-way:

What Sandy and I are talking about [deer and turkey] seems to be a major sticking point. We don't see preservation as a obscure concept which we give money to as a cause. It is a part of life. This is one of the disconnects that seperates two of the groups. You aren't addressing the question [Mad Monk aside].

Best wishes,,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

Bardou;Turkey Vultures habitats do not include the Cascade Mts.Better take another look.Are you sure they are Turkey Vultures?Are you sure they are the Cascade Mts?

-- Dan Newsome (BOONSTAR1@webtv.net), January 26, 2000.

Bardou:

I think that Dan is correct. My work takes me there. My family lives there. I have seen many vultures in the area and many are turkeys: oops, I don't want to go there.

Best Wishes,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

I migrate from group to group to group.

I yearn for the simplicity and extreme complexity of being self reliant.

The advances in technology have made my job more rewarding and fulfiling. Easier and harder.

When my world is hitting on all pistons I'm in group three.

-- indecisive (can't@decide.123), January 26, 2000.

-- Z1X4Y7<

I want to be where you are. That is where we are getting to the point of being. Technology is evolving to where we do not have to live in the urban center, we can have our cake and eat it too.

I can see the Cascades and the Olympics and MT. Rainier (on a clear day) from my home, I turn my head and see the tops of tree's off of my balcany, yet I am on the fringes of the urban center. I am in "the convergence zone" (for any who would know where that is) so I get snow when others do not, the traffic at night is muted by the evergreens. I have lived in treeless, flat areas of America, I felt I was "falling off" (Chanute (Rantully/Urbana) Ill), I would never by choice do so again. Living south of Miami, where outdoors is existance, indoors is a temporary stop between places to be, I have converted my existance back home here where indoors is the hub, outdoors is a concession to nature. How can you judge camping in snow to sleeping on a warm beach? I am pleased that technology for the masses has caugfht up to the technology I learned and appreciated 30 years ago.

Society struggles against change, yet technology is allowing us to go back to the less technoligical ways of life.

Good subject :o)

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), January 26, 2000.

Now, now, don't go comparing The Goobers to Meyers.

The Goobers is obscure and inscrutable, granted; but, he is _also_ concise, coherent, and precise -- three things that are completely alien to the Meyerbot.

-- Sluggo (sluggo@your.head), January 26, 2000.

Cherri [whichever one this is]:

"-- Z1X4Y7< I want to be where you are. That is where we are getting to the point of being. Technology is evolving to where we do not have to live in the urban center, we can have our cake and eat it too. I can see the Cascades and the Olympics and MT. Rainier (on a clear day) from my home, I turn my head and see the tops of tree's off of my balcany, yet I am on the fringes of the urban center. I am in "the convergence zone" (for any who would know where that is) so I get snow when others do not, the traffic at night is muted by the evergreens. I have lived in treeless, flat areas of America, I felt I was "falling off" (Chanute (Rantully/Urbana) Ill), I would never by choice do so again. Living south of Miami, where outdoors is existance, indoors is a temporary stop between places to be, I have converted my existance back home here where indoors is the hub, outdoors is a concession to nature. How can you judge camping in snow to sleeping on a warm beach? I am pleased that technology for the masses has caugfht up to the technology I learned and appreciated 30 years ago. Society struggles against change, yet technology is allowing us to go back to the less technoligical ways of life."

Yes, and this is the trouble that we are having here. We live in the transition zone between your Illinois home and the plains. We have rolling hills, many forests [pine and hardwood] and bluffs. The biggest springs in the country. Some essentially start rivers. Good fishing and boating [some of the best trout fishing in the country]. Great diversity. And we have seasons; something that I missed living all of those years in the rockies. Unfortunately, others are learning about the place. I won't give you references because I don't want to encourage people. Am I selfish? YES. I have personal experience with what happened in N. Cal., Seattle, Boulder and other such places. I have escaped them all. I don't want to do it again. It just depends on what you want and you have to decide not to destroy what it was that attracte

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

Not sure of the group but am very sure I am where I want to be. On a 67 acre small farm about 40 miles below Charlotte, NC in the boonies of South Carolina, sharing four other households with our three kids and their eight kids, plus the wifes mom and dad. Computers necessary for the biz but love the country living. Chickens (for the eggs), geese, duck, guinies, wild deer, fishing by the pond, big old tractor and of course, my Harley ready to go when the need to get in the wind hits me. Don't care about the group I'm in, just care about living my best, one day at a time...

-- Scooter (brucej@infoave.net), January 26, 2000.

Sluggo:

I may have not been clear enough, but I think that you expressed my point exaccccctly.

Best Wishes,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

We call the coastal range mountains "cascades" here. And yes I am sure they are turkey vultures. Whenever I make homemade chicken broth, I put the bones and skin out for them to eat. I live in Northern CA and have a fantastic view of the smallest mountain range in the world "The Buttes," and a view of the largest earthen dam in the world "Lake Oroville." The weather has been unseasonably warm here, no frost and I won't have to replant any annuals in the spring. If you like to bass fish, this is the place to visit.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 26, 2000.

Bardou:

No offense, but by definition that would make them chicken bone vultures ;o).

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

Z, you used to be a polly. Now you come off a a survivalist. What, are you disappointed we didn't get a 10? Or at least a 7?

-- (@ .), January 26, 2000.

Z,

I really didn't want to be the one to have to tell you this, but I'm afraid you're going to have to expand your theory to include a fifth group which consists of (drum roll): Porky in Cellblock-D.

Just don't ask me what the implications are.

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 26, 2000.

Eve:

How could I have forgotten the old Porker [of course you have forgotten a lot of the early people who also fit in their own slot]. Thanks for the help.

Best wishes,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

@;

Actually, I've never been any of the above. Can I survive?; yes. I raise my own food. Can I survive without power? Sure; I can heat my house without outside help [did it today]. Is this a way of life? Yesss. Is this the center of my life? No. It is simply an expression of a philosophy. I do technology. To get away from it I do the above. It works for me. It may not work for you. It depends on your situation. I wouldn't suggest that someone in San Hose adopt this philosophy. But it is fun.

Best wishes,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

Diane and the other Sysops:

You do a good job, but, if you keep deleting all of these troll posts we end-up with a thread of me talking to myself. OK, I'm cool with that.

Best wishes,,,,

z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

Hey Z, as a member of group 4 am still here although the deer whent to bed awhile back, bet the turkey did too. Time now for the coons and the possums.

-- sandy (rstyree@overland.net), January 26, 2000.

"Technology is evolving to where we do not have to live in the urban center [...]"

Hey, I can't wait. It'll take a few more years for technology to get to the point where everybody can leave the cities, let's say that would be 2015. As of March 1999 the Census Bureau estimates the U. S. population at 271,991,000. Their estimate for the U.S in 2015 is about 310,133,000 people.

I think the idyllic countryside won't be so idyllic any more.

There was a time on the Great Plains during the 19th century when a family would move farther out if they could see another house in any direction. "Gettin' too crowded 'round here," they'd say.

Where will you go in 2015 to get away from the crowds?

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), January 26, 2000.

The problem is not the people to land ratio. The problem is the people to people ratio.

-- Okie Dan (brendan@theshop.net), January 27, 2000.

It's probably too late to add my two cent to this this dreamy mess, but, well, here goes.

We are sprawling this beautiful countries with the best of intentions. We left the city to build a new life. Well we built it my friends and it is done.

Watching turkeys and growing lettuce and a few eggs is a step in the right direction but people -- it is too little too late.

Driving into town to buy clothing, gasoline, a wrench, cigarettes, soda, diapers, oil, hay, antibiotics, a drill bit, soda, a printer cartridge, etc. etc. etc. uses gasoline from Nigeria, steel and coal from a strip mine in west virgina, plastic from a dirty plant in Louisiana and it leaves CO2 in the atmosphere.

WE ARE NOT PIONEERS. WE ARE RUINING THE PLANET WITH OUR PATHETIC DELUSION OF INDEPENDENCE. WE DEPEND ON POOR THIRD WORLD PEASANTS AND SLAVES TO GROW OUR FOOD, MINE OUR MINERALS, WEAVE OUR CLOTHING, PUMP OUR GASOLINE, BUILD OUR COMPUTERS.

QUIT DELUDING YOURSELVES. GET A LIFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

pETE

-- Peter Starr (startrak@northcoast.com), January 27, 2000.

Geez Pete, Good thing you're not a pessimist, huh? We here in the great US of A import those things from other Nations to maintain international relations and to support those nations as well. We are capable of producing all of the items that you mentioned and currently do produce those things albeit at reduced levels. It is, in fact, the United States of America that is the foremost producer and provider of food to the world, particularly grains. By the way for you population control folks, if you took all the people in the United States and stood them together body to body they wouldn't even fill up New York city. God is in control which means things are not out of control. He's still there and His plan is still unfolding. "World without end" Chill out, have faith, wait on God. Blessings.

-- Gr8ful (Landofthefree@Homeofthebrave.com), January 27, 2000.

Z, I have something to share with you, e-mail me and I'll pass it on....

-- Blue Hawk (bh_silentvoice@hotmail.com), January 27, 2000.

Guess I am in between. I have done a lot to simplify my life, and have become much more self reliant, but have no desire to return to yesteryear without such things as hot showers, flush toilets, and dare I say it? My PC, with a couple of ISPs and my all in one printer/fax/scan/copier.

-- Nancy (wellsnl@hotmail.com), January 27, 2000.

Z,

It is great to see you are writing again. Happy New Year to you!

Technology has sure made some things possible for more people. Like telecommuting. The technology is there and some people have figured out how to do it now, but it may be some time before I figure that one out so that I can have my cake and eat it too. A more self-reliant lifestyle in a rural town of less than 5,000 with the same money and opportunities that I am getting here and now is attractive to me, but New York City (or Rome for that matter) is also attractive for different reasons. On the one hand, I'm no homesteader or pioneer. On the other hand, I have lost my "blind faith" in critical and service infrastructure. And that, of course, due to my thinking about Y2K. I see ahead of me: making decisions that will be weighed with attention to these new concerns, learning new skill sets, gaining new knowledge, making new friends, and further enjoying the new friends that I have found here. Whether or not I end up living my life out in the city or telecommute from a small farm... these things remain to be decided upon.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), January 27, 2000.

I do depend on technology in my work, but I live in a semi-rural setting. I've got a Jerusalem Artichoke "mini-farm", lots of fruit and asparagus planted, chop wood (ok, with some difficulty), use my wood stove every day and evening that I can, became a much more serious student of wild edible plants over the past year and a half, have lots of wheat and hull-less oat seeds that I plan on using, etc. And my two teenage boys help out a lot.

So, I'm sort of semi-self-sufficient ...and cherish every minute of it.

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 27, 2000.

I should have added that I'm in SE Michigan -- near Ann Arbor.

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 27, 2000.