Our true Government:

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I am a nobody, just a statistic, a vote, a taxpayer. Other than that I am very expendable. The rich are elected by the rich and for the rich. Not what a man knows determines if he is elected, it is how much wealth he has gleaned from gullable fools that determins the outcome. The rich rule, the rich make rules for the rest of the herd to live by, while they themslvess are immune to those same rules. They, the rich elite manipulate nations, and wealth to their own benefit. Any who should happen to think we are free are fools. We are owned and ruled for the benefit of the elite rich of the world. We are their slaves, more expendable than dirt. There is no way to advance unless you are in the "Inner circle". They are wise beyond understanding, and to try and outwit them is folly. Should you happen to step in their way, you are history. It is that shadow government that I refer to often as "They". They control the markets, the wealth of the world. Am I wrong in what I say, or am I just spinning off the top of my head?

-- Notforlong (Fsur@aol.com), January 25, 2000

Answers

This should be copied below on the HEMP thread.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.com), January 25, 2000.


I don't know, Notforlong, but you sure are depressing the hell outta me. If I thought like you did, I'd'a given up long ago and slit my wrists.

I believe one can have a very fulfilling and successful life without dwelling on some "superstructure" of an untouchable oligarchic elite.

-- Die Fledermaus (shadow@alliance.org), January 25, 2000.


Notforlong,

Unfortunately for all of us, your comments are right on target. Through manipulation of the media and public opinion, they have also ensured that anyone who begins to publicly approach the truth is either proclaimed a "nut" or they simply disappear (or commit suicide!!).

A GREAT book on this very subject is "Captains and the Kings" by Taylor Caldwell.

Keep your wits sharp and your powder dry!

Jimmy

-- Jimmy Splinters (inthe@dark.com), January 25, 2000.


No, you're not wrong. This country, all countries basically, are made up of the same types of elitists. The only thing I would take issue with would be that there is a single shadow government. There are so many layers to our government, even those who think they are in control of the *real* government are just puppets.

-- justme (justme@myhouse.com), January 25, 2000.

I very much agree with you Notforlong except on one statement. "They are wise beyond understanding, and to try and outwit them is folly." They are NOT wise beyond understanding, they are corrupt beyond understanding and the scales over their eyes are so thick that they can be ouwitted. Good can outwit bad, but it takes faith to do it. Understand that FAITH AMD ALSO WORKS. Faith is dead without works and that means that decent Americans need to stand up and open their mouths. Enough said.

-- Gay Boling (Wilber@montanasky.net), January 25, 2000.


Notforlong-you really need to read " The Creature from Jekyll island"; an in depth look at the Fed, the central banks, and who is running things. You are correct. However, read the bible too. The Lord scoffs at them, knowing the day of reckoning is coming. All of eternity lies ahead, and this life is only preparation.

-- reading (books@home.com), January 25, 2000.

If you haven't already seen it, check out: www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/BODIES.html

-- Trish (adler2@webtv.net), January 25, 2000.

Notforlong, The wealthy elitist individuals who run the global show are called the "Fabians". They are a very powerful group of freemasons whose homebase appears to be in England. These men control the worlds central banks, the Tri-lateral Commision, the Council on Foreign Relations, etc. They control the industrialised worlds decisionmakers. There is a good book which talks a little about this group called "The Secret World of Money" by Andrew Gause.

-- NoJO (RSKeiper@aol.com), January 25, 2000.

you are right,notforlong,notice how some of that Garbage is trying to intimidate You??That is the same type Riff Raff that CAUSED the French Revolution,Hitler,Stalin and a few others to come to Power.These are the same Corporate Criminal Types, that are trying to deflect the Attention away from them,and blame our Government and our President!!!

-- liberator (feeding@the trough.com), January 25, 2000.

NotForLong -

I agree. You might want to see my post in response near the bottom of the the "i Troll" thread:

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002OT4

Some comments there about issues you are addressing: Re: Govt./control

-- steve (WhoCares@nymore.Right?.com), January 25, 2000.



Liberator, trying to blame our President? ROTFLMAO They say jump, he says how high. Do you think that he makes all of the bonehead decisions? For example, the number of workers for each retired person decreases each year and soon there will be only 3 workers for each retiree and he is talking about paying off the national debt? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. We will be lucky if it does not increase another 3 TRILLION dollars in the next 5 years.

-- Moe (Moe@3stooges.gom), January 25, 2000.

all of you guys, read 'the biggest secret' by david icke. that will definitely get your blood boiling.

and 'reading book@home' is right. the creature from jekyl island is also quite enlightening. it is written by edward griffin.

o)<

mike

ps - they're day is comi

-- mike (mike@knuckledragger.com), January 25, 2000.


To all:

We have a mixed constitutional republic weighted towards the commercial interests. 'Mixed' means that various levels [or classes] of society participate in government in various ways [and to various degrees]. All the modern Anglo-- and now all the western-- systems have favored commercial interests for some time. The operating rules for the system that we all live under today hasn't essentially changed in centuries. In all likelyhood, many of us just weren't aware of the system before. If one takes a close look at any historical period in the Anglo world over the last five hundred years, one can see the same essential structures.

The current systems that we operate under replaced a previous system of church supported monarchies -- that today we term 'medieval'.

I understand your angst with the limitations of the current system. But mere criticism does nothing constructive.

Until a society can be offered the choice of a better alternative, it must be left with making the best of what operating system is already in place.

Better alternatives for any complex system are very difficult to come by in practice. Very often, what may appear at first glance to be a good idea, can show itself in time to be a very poorly conceived speculation-- with disasterous results.

For any who would endevour to create an enduring future: Learn the reasons for why things *are* as they *are* first. Study the past respectfully.

Only to the degree that one understands the various reasons for the types and multitude of complex inner workings in large sophisticated systems, is it prudent to contemplate any rearranging or modification of forms. That the ill-informed will do it anyway is inevitable. That their results will be even worse than their starting conditions is also inevitable.

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 25, 2000.


Notforlong

We are ALL nobodies!!! And I love it !!!

I agree with most of your statements,but for the shear fact that we have the opportunity to come together to challenge the "THEY" we are in a unique position.WE WILL step in their way and WE may be history,but WE WILL be there.WE are here now and can see their crimes,have watched their evil plans unfold and we know them well.

I agree with Gay Boling,they are NOT wise beyond understanding.We collectively can/will defeat them, WE have the heart and guts,THEY are NOT special.THEY aren't special without cooperation from us,it's just a matter of how many of us there are that have the knowledge and the conviction to do the right things.

Question; How many of us would die for the CONSTITUTION ?

Question; Does the majority even know or care what the CONSTITUTION is all about ?

I hope and pray to GOD that WE have TWO lines of defense:

1. People that try politicaly to run for offices that are of the Libertarian mindset.

2. People that are not afraid to fight for what they believe in,with words,fists or rocks if need be.

Die Flederaus,

WE CANNOT be fullfilled to our potential if we do not "dwell" on the superstructure.This is the true folly.

WE MY FRIENDS ARE THE MINUITE MEN OF OUR TIME !!!

We are the beginnings of hope.We CAN help decide our future but we have to want to.

I believe we should use every means at our disposal to form networks of concerned citizens to stand up and between "THEY".

Thanks Notforlong,great post!!!!!!

P.S If theyr'e still around,I hope Nikoli or Ivan will chime in. WE need to get the network up and running,every patriot we can find should be summoned.

Thanks to you all.

-- Common Man (me@libertytree.com), January 26, 2000.


Tim,

How about sticking with the Constitution,thats a really great place to start!!! It isn't that complicated or complex!!!

The best system the world has ever witnessed came about 200+ yrs ago,not 500 yrs ago.If you want to step out on a limb go back to ancient Greece where a form of Democracy started, and make the paralell to the perversion that our republic has endured under the "ELITE SCUMBAGS" and the silencing of philosophy by the Greek authoraties then. The prudent watch T.V with their heads up their ass and will be screwed,THAT is inevitable.

FREEDOM or the CONSTITUTION is not complicated,it was written for farmers and lay-people,so they could understand it.Why is it,that todays supposedly enlightened masses cannot grasp this simple concept?

Tim,you may well be a friend to liberty,but it is not that complicated.

-- Common Man (me@libertytree.com), January 26, 2000.



Bad boy bad boy, what ya gonna do when they COME FOR YOU!

no sliting (one's own or anyone else) throats necessary, just be free inside the mind:)

-- INever farenheit 452 (inevercheckmy@onebox.com), January 26, 2000.


Common Man, For farmers and lay-people? That's why only white male landowners could vote I guess. The Founding Fathers were the ELITE of the colonies. Far from common men both in education and wealth. The common man had a life expectancy of less than 40 years yet the framers of the Constitution lived into their sixties, seventies and beyond.

They wrote a magnigicent document to protect them, to do that it had to protect all citizens. We just lucked out.

-- Chief (bmc@sealret.com), January 26, 2000.


Chief

Yes ,you are correct,they were the elite of the colonies,but wasn't that soley because of education and acquired skills ? and not becase of a monarchial style of gov.

Of farmers and lay people; Most of the colonists were just that,they did not rely on slave labor to make them successful,certainly there were those with the means to buy free labor but the majority at that time were not of that class.

I don't really get the age differential between the framers and the lay-people,please clarify.

They did infact have education and wealth,but should that diminish their honour? Did we just got lucky because they weren't smart enough to write a document that would have made them kings.At that time, Washington could have been KING! But he would not.

The founders did have their flaws and imperfections (sins),but their passion and desire to establish a sovereign nation is IMHO indisputable.

-- Common Man (me@libertytree.com), January 26, 2000.


Common Man,

The issue of slavery almost derailed the the Revolution at the start. The south at that time survived on it. Some of the founding fathers were slave owners. I am not by any means denigrating these men, they had a vision of what this Nation could be...and is.

The age differential is common between "workers" and the ruling elite and can be found as far back as Rome under the Ceasars. We now have reached almost parity with the rich on that score. In this country. We no longer work the less wealthy to death as we did less than 100 years ago. This is mostly overlooked but one of the great advances in civilization.

I know that there are MANY inequities in this Country, and men of good will should come together and exercise their right to vote and to protest in the streets if need be.

This Nation is NOT run by any secret cabal of any group. People who believe such things sometimes are the ones who have fallen thru the cracks (and there ae many cracks sadly) and have to find someone to blame.

BTW Common, do appreciate your dignity and civility in this discussion. Sometimes a scarce commodity hereabouts.

-- Chief (bmc@sealret.com), January 26, 2000.


Notforlong,

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. As for me give me liberty or give me death.

The internet is our opportunity as more and more learn the truth, they will organize and add amendments to the Constitution to separate Money from Government just as the church is separate from the state.

they will create a way to allow election of the best minds and not the rich. They will demand protection from multinationals and corporate crimes by demandin that boards of directors be criminally responsible for any violation of law. They will throw the IRS ou and demand a consumption tax the rich and corporations cannot escape. They will protect the right of the people to bear arms forever.

All this will happen when the sheeple finally see that their cubbard is empty and the truth of the situation will create the greatest voter revolt that will throw all the rich demons out of office.

Learn and teach. Let all know that corporate crime is 90% of crime in America. Demand your right to privacy. Remove all power from unelected bureaucrats. We can still vote. We cannot compete with the media....not yet...but the net is scaring all the fat rats. Look at this board. They do not like it and there are many new boards coming on line. There is no need of new parties, just an internet movement to upturn the elections of corrupt elites. Give support to honest men. The corrupt are transparent. Teach, teach and throw all false preachers out along with false politicians. We have a chance now that we can share thoughts across the globe.

Greed is stupidity...write books and manifestos...teach the young...give them hope for evil is ultimately stupid.

The redcoat are coming. Freedom is in peril. Let us start in 2000 by upsetting their game. Give no info to the pollsters they must learn only that the people are awaking...thanks to communication. God Bless out ideal Republic. JUST FREEDOM

-- JustFreedom (freedom@justice.usa), January 26, 2000.


JustFreedom,

Could you take a minute and define what constitutes rich? How much money makes you rich? What value of your house is too much? How many autos makes you rich? Does the fact that you can send your children to college without loans make you rich?

I admire your zeal but I'm not quite sure what the dividing line is. BTW anyone who uses the term "sheeple" seems to have an attitude that they are something above the rest of the citizens of this country. Most people react that way when they are refered to as "sheeple" and they are the same people who you are trying to convince.

-- Chief (bmc@sealret.com), January 26, 2000.


Chief

I too appreciate your dignity and civility :)

As far as secret cabals go,I am not willing to dismiss their existence so quickly, as this IMHO is the concentration of true evil on this earth.The manipulation of the many by the few has been evident throughout history.I wish we were playing on an even field,but am afraid we are not,TPTB have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.

JustFreedom

I share your thoughts concerning the net and believe that it will be instrumental in preserving our liberty.

Shall we keep the thread going?

-- Common Man (me@libertytree.com), January 26, 2000.


I agree that our founding Constitution is brilliant. I would be advantageous if we could simply abide by it.

But the foresight and depth of thought that went into making that document was anything but simple. It was not a document written by simple farmers. The founding fathers were men of vast education and quite developed intellect [especially in comparison with current levels]. The carefully precise and deeply rooted reasoning that went into the formation of The Constitution of the United States of America is well documented. Any who can take the time to give it a look will be rewarded.

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 26, 2000.


Most of the founding fathers were Freemasons.

-- Mr. Pinochle (pinochledd@aol.com), January 26, 2000.

Tim

Yes, it would be nice if it were abided by and not twisted and mangled to the extent that has been.

In regards to the complexity of the Constitution; while it was not written by simple farmers it was written so it could be understood by simple farmers,for it would have been useless if the majority of people were relegated to interpetting lagalese.

Yes the founders were intellectually above the masses (then and now), but they understood that a simple document that could be read by everyone was imperative.

Now if we could just get the Washington DC crowd to read it!!!!

-- Common Man (me@libertytree.com), January 26, 2000.


Chief,

Your remark is well taken. "Rich" is to vague a term. A person who has as much as 100 million earned or inherited is no threat to humanity. When wealth and control goes into billions and gives irresistible political power to one citizen we face the ugly monster of total corruption and megalomaniacal power. True there are exceptions to this rule. Just as I would insist on the right to bear arms with the limit imposed upon weapons of mass destruction.

The human mind cannot handle safely too much power. Freedom ends where another man's freedom begins. Equally in a limited planet the share of private property must be proportionately limited.

That is the place where public interest and eminent domain and monopoly laws become absolutely necessary.

Thanks for your sobering post - it is always dangerous to drop lines on a post without careful reflection and editing.

By the way I too am prone to megalomania and would happily submit to fair limits. As for education (college) I believe the greatest asset a country has is the intelligence of its youth. All should be given free education and be able to go as far as their merit and dedication allows. Money cannot and should not buy education or health care that is part of being civilize -- health services and education must be fully supported as public services.

-- JustFreedom -- JustFreedom (freedom@justice.usa), (freedom@justice.usa -- JustFreedom (freedom@justice.usa), -- JustFreedom (freedom@justice.usa), -- JustFreedom (freedom@justice.usa),), January 26, 2000.


JustFreedom, "Money cannot and should not buy education or health care that is part of being civilize -- health services and education must be fully supported as public services."

Uh, huh. And while you're busy being free, who's going to pay for all this health care and education - or do you assume that the philanthropic rich will work it out with the altruistic teachers and doctors? Perhaps "being free" could take on a different meaning entirely for those in the education and medical professions.

-- Die Fledermaus (shadow@alliance.org), January 26, 2000.


I appreciate all the posts. In the company of the wise, as all of you are, I tend to become more wise in my understanding. It is comforting to know that my perception of our system is not held by me alone. If only some of you guys were to become congressmen, and still retain your integretiy, we would have again a great nation. We could take it back, and our government would again be by and for the people. As it is we are governed by parasites that grow wealthy at our expense. They can play world type games with our money, and we have no protection. They are able to make people in other nations, who are just like us, hate us, all the while using our money to do it.

Wealth and power are the forces that motivate our society. Not all bad, without the desire for wealth we would not be living the standards that we live. However those in control of the wealth are not statisfied, and never can be satisfied with their present standing. Wealth is being cornered into fewer and fewer hands. Now the elite power holders are buying up all the smaller power holders, The power holders above them are acquiring them all so that in a very short time all the wealth will be held by a very tiny portion of the world's citizens. Eventually it will all be held by one, and it looks like that time is not far off.

With each level of power that is attained, we as ordinary people become less free. Each level conquers the lower levels, and their freedom shrinks as the noose tightens. When the last level has been reached, then we will know for sure what it is like to be slaves, having to bear burdens never before imagined. The mergers of all these high ecelon businesses are beginning to accelerate by the day, almost by the hour.

This is crazy, here I am just a crazy old geak, talking like I had hugh holdings, like I had hugh bank accounts, like I had hugh investments in stocks and bonds. I am none of those, just an ignorant old man with nothing much more than the bare nessessities of life do I have.

I have learned human nature, and I have learned who to trust, and who not to trust, who to love, and who to with hold tender sensitive feelings from. I have learned that there are many who are much wiser than I, that I am able to learn from such as you all are. I want to thank you all for letting me vent my emotions in this manner. God bless all of you. F.J.S.

-- Notforlong (Fsur@aol.com), January 26, 2000.


For more about what the Supreme Court says about our lack of constitutional protections read my post "On Citizenship" in:

Link

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 26, 2000.


Notforlong

Thank You for posting,I feel in good company with all of you,your considerations and thoughts are duly appreciated and is a positive reflection for the future of the country.I wish more people would acquire the thirst for the truth or if nothing else a moderate interest in the state of our nation.

The dynamic you have written concerning the domino effect in the layers of society are IMHO accurate and until now have not heard it stated better.

Die Fledermaus

I tend to lean in your direction on this one,anytime you have centralized control there is more room for corruption and political manipulation.But I must reiterate to a degree that JustFreedom is correct that ED. is a foremost priority(hell,its bad enough as it is) because without education the chances for power/knowledge to remain concentrated at the top increases.

The larger concern now isn't the level of education,it is the apathy that permeates our society.

GOD !!! It's good to know ya'll are out there!!!

-- Common Man (me@libertytree.com), January 26, 2000.


Common Man,

I agree with your statement about apathy, it may be the greatest threat to freedom.

-- Chief (bmc@sealret.com), January 26, 2000.


Oh Common Man,

Would that we all regain the will to seek. For the seeking, and only the seeking, are the finding.

Notforlong:

Those who think *they* know, know nothing. Great minds have one learning style in common. They learn incessantly. From any and all. Oddly, they are aware of just how *little* what they actually know, is.

Another friend you might enjoy is Plato/ Socrates. Plato was really the first [and perhaps best] political philosopher. If you read him, let him speak in his own words, first. Ignore, for a time, what the 'experts' think. Plato was far more interested sharing the *ability* for subtle political insight, than he was in giving mere 'systems'. That's why you'll find his positions and perspectives playfully moving around as you proceed through the dialogs. There is a 'system' of sorts. But as Plato himself said, he didn't actually write it down. He said there are some things that just can't be written. Go figure.

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 27, 2000.


Mr. Pinochle:

Yes. Almost all were associated in that manner. And paradoxically, they also tended to be men of sincere Faith. At that period [and even moreso previously], faith and 'reason' were still seen as compatible partners. As far as I can tell, the Christian element did not even begin to be actively rejected until later in the next century.

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 27, 2000.


And even then only quietly.

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 27, 2000.

Tim,

Being aware that there are things you don't know is one of the cornerstones of life. When I was in the Navy we shortened it to the phrase -Know what you don't know-. That philosphy is not limited to the "Great Minds" though they must have it, many people live by that but have never put it into words. Sure did save my butt on more than one occasion!

-- Chief (bmc@sealret.com), January 27, 2000.


One can have a great mind, a great body, or a great heart, without being internationally recognized. In fact, I think too much public 'recognition' can actually be a detriment.

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 27, 2000.

-- Die Fledermaus (you wrote) Uh, huh. And while you're busy being free, who's going to pay for all this health care and education - or do you assume that the philanthropic rich will work it out with the altruistic teachers and doctors? Perhaps "being free" could take on a different meaning entirely for those in the education and medical professions.

When I was sailing the south pacific in 1986 my wife was taken seriously sick. We reached Tahiti where she was cared for and operated on at absolutely no cost inthe finest hospital in Papeete. Upon leaving the medical teams insisted we take many first aid and medicines and asked to see our then 3 year old boy. The doctors were very competent and well equipped.

So why so many Americans are left to die withour proper care?> SIMPLE - medicine and farmaceuticals and Insurance see us as human meat easily convertible to profit. WE ARE TECHNICAL BARBARIANS.

Check rhis piece of news and reflecy where all this evil resides.

Thursday, January 27 9:55 AM SGT t

World's elite gather for blue-chip mountain summit

DAVOS, Switzerland, Jan 27 (AFP) -

The world's political and business elite were gathering in the Swiss Alps for the start Thursday of an annual blue-chip summit to discuss the world's woes and attempt to sketch out its future.

The World Economic Forum (WEF) meeting is being held amid unprecedented security, amid warnings of anti-globalization protests like those which ruined last month's World Trade Organization (WTO) meeting in Seattle.

The top-table annual conference brings together over 30 heads of state and government, scores of ministers and more than 1,000 top business chiefs for six days of global brainstorming in the Swiss ski resort of Davos.

US President Bill Clinton, who arrives Saturday, is the star of this year's show, the 30th edition of the Davos meeting which in the past has played host to historic events including key Middle East and South African accords.

On the business side the likes of Microsoft head Bill Gates and AOL chief Steve Case will gather to mull the future of the internet economy, while WTO chief Mike Moore will discuss the future of world trade.

The meeting, this year, entitled "New Beginnings: Making a Difference," is billed as the first major international meeting of the 21st century, and a chance to set the agenda for the new millennium.

"New realities are radically changing almost every domain of human activity," said WEF Managing Director Claude Smadja.

"The compounding forces of globalization, the technology and biology revolutions, and the emergence of the e-economy confront us with a challenge of unprecedented magnitude in modern history."

But security risks are providing a major headache, as organizers fear a Seattle effect arriving in the Swiss Alps.

In the biggest security operation in the Davos meeting's 30-year history, the Swiss army has been called in to back up local police in sealing off the picturesque ski resort.

Fears were fueled earlier this month when protesters succeeded in staging a firework attack on the fortress-like congress centre where the meeting is based, damaging two windows.

Local authorities have rejected a request to stage an anti- globalization protest on Saturday, the day Clinton is into town, allowing one only on the following day.

On Wednesday the umbrella group coordinating the anti-WTO protest announced that it will go ahead with the protest on Saturday.

"The demonstration scheduled for Saturday will be held, whether it is authorized or not," said a spokeswoman.

Other key players on the agenda include South African President Thabo Mbeki, British premier Tony Blair, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and Jordan's King Abdullah.

Chinese deputy premier Wu Bangguo, heading Beijing's delegation in Davos, arrived in Geneva on Wednesday.

Israeli premier Ehud Barak is also on the schedule, although his office warned earlier this week that he might not come, since a trilateral Mideast mini-summit with Clinton and Arafat could not be organized as the US president is only in town on the Jewish Sabbath.



-- JUST FREEDOM (freedom@justice.usa), January 27, 2000.


Interested Spect. or anyone,

Years ago, perhaps as far back as the 70's there was a tax protester who decided to confront the Feds at gunpoint (Of course they were happy to come to him). As much as I remember, this man and members of his family ended up in a standoff and gunbattle with the Feds and the man was killed. He was described in the news reports as dangerous and a murderer having killed others in his "anti-Govt" campaign. I believe his son was involved also. This standoff took place somewhere in the midwest (Kansas, Nebraska ?).

Does anyone remember the man or the details of this and were the news reports about him at all accurate ? Another Ruby Ridge maybe ?

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), January 27, 2000.


Too much sycophantic (sic) crap to go thro' - so excuse me if someone's said this already:

Hey! Author! )'forgot yr name) Your First sentence was very accurate, IMHO.

Also, GET OFF YER ARSE 'AN DO SOMTHING

-- Ocker (ock@ocker.com), January 27, 2000.


GO! OCKER GO!

-- Likey (Likey@ockers.hotmail), January 27, 2000.

Just Freedom:

Yes. Techno-barbarism

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 27, 2000.


Techno Mis-Information:

http://www.bashar.com/GSP/sovereign.htm

check out this COMPLETE thread "now" i.e. >> to catch up on the latest additions and posts.

"It's got it all...." Really!!!

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002PYl

If you like start about 1/2 way or 3/4 the way down. Course, you'll miss alot of good stuff, bar brawls, and intellectual swordfighting...but it gets real serious..."In The End"

Have fun exploring....

-- steve (WhoCares@nymore.Right?com), February 04, 2000.


Does anyone remember about the Donald Scott story in Malibu, California? Another Ruby Ridge.

Yup.

-- steve (WhoCares@nymore.Right?.com), February 04, 2000.


Mike!!!

"You Got Dat!!"

ah Ha HA HA HA!!!!!

-- steve (Mike@Knows.See?.com), February 04, 2000.


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