Are you people still here? My God! Just came by to see if the site was sut down and some of you are still saying the computer crash is going to kill us all! Give it up! It's over!

-- DAVID (tdavidc@arn.net), January 24, 2000

Answers

If you think "it's over", why are you here?

-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), January 24, 2000.

Me!

Well David! I'm just waitng for the Fat Lady to sing! Say are you the singer? No...You just have a fat head is all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), January 24, 2000.

What a dork! duh.....y2k is just starting, how could it be over? and of course, who actually said everything would happen at the stroke of midnight? I guess this must be what you might call one of the first millinial 'premie's'

-- skip (146942@msn.com), January 24, 2000.

Hey David, Of course we know it is over, what you think we are? Idiots? We are haning around hoping for some other potential disaster to justify all the money expense we put into preparation last year.

Maybe asteroids (hey the British Government started it). Maybe solar flares -- what the hell, maybe even global warming. I want ot makeit clear however that I will not stoop to chemtrails!! (smile)

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), January 24, 2000.

David,

Why I'm waiting for your question. Good, now I can go out and get a life. Thanks for setting me straight and telling me what to think, really needed the help. Just don't call me names because I can't stand to be called names it makes me worry that maybe I am not thinking like everyone else and we can't have that can we.

What took you so long?

-- Squid (ItsDark@down.here), January 24, 2000.

Jose, i liked your post, was funny. Would you mind telling me what preparations you had made, and when you came to accept that y2k was over?

Best regards

-- Mr. Sane (hhh@home.com), January 24, 2000.

I like it here. I have friends here. Besides, this is the best news site on the web.

Y2K started 23, oops, 24 days ago. Sure, we had some good news, even great news on 1/1. But it's hardly over.

Why are you still here, if you think it's over??? <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), January 24, 2000.

Thanks Sane, but don't get me wrong, I really don't think y2k is over, I just don't think it will be serious. There will be a lot of data foul-ups, and even some possible explosions or minor disasters but they will be fixed quickly, we will not ever hear about most of them and the worst that can happen may be a mild economic down-turn. At least that is my take tonight. I feel optimistic tonight. Tomorrow, well....

I prepared 3 months worth of food, paid off my credit cards, drilled a well ($400), planted a garden and stored about 300 gallons of gasoline (in a double walled, steel tank made for gasoline - it was given to me). I bought or did nothing that I regret or cannot live with. Oh... I also became proficient with a hand gun and obtained a concealed weapons permit, something I wanted to do anyway. I am now in the process of obtaining a short-wave radio technicians license.

Take care...

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), January 24, 2000.

Mr. Sane,

Why don't you spend some of your time doing research. Jose has been posting since last Sept. and has asked questions that are in the archives. Also what did you do to prepare for a potential problem of some magnitude?

-- Mr. Pinochle (pinochledd@aol.com), January 24, 2000.

Mr. Pinochle, I prepared by reading reports that y2k just wasn't going to be an issue. I looked at doomer's sites too and i realised that these charlatans were way off.

I don't think i lack intelligence. If i lacked intelligence i would have wasted my time preparing for something that wasn't going to happen, and i would have made a fool of myself in front of my friends and family.

BTW, I have a degree in Applied Science and work in manufacturing, and i believe i have a right to say some things in this forum.

You guys (doomers) seem to take things far too seriously. Why are you so aggressive?

-- Mr. Sane (hhh@home.com), January 24, 2000.

Whoopdy doo, you have a degree! Gee, you must be one smart guy, huh?

I think you are lacking in the common sense department though. What are you doing here, except making trouble? Do you have anything intelligent to say, Mr Sane, PhD... <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), January 24, 2000.

WOW, you folks are pretty touchy tonight! Look, I never said there weren't going to be events, problems, etc. But, my theory, and that is all it was until a while ago, has proved correct. A few glitches, nothing that causes more than a few inconveniences and no real noticeable problems on a global scale. That is what I chose to beleive and I was prepared to live with the consequences if I was wrong! Apparantly, many of you prepped to survive but did not prep to be wrong.

If the world were gonna end and were going to be clubbing each other over the head for cans of Spam, then that would have become pretty aparent by now. Those of you that are still hiding in the bunker, couting your rounds of ammo, etc. should give it up! Move onto something else! I am not speaking to everyone on this board, many have moved to new threats to our way of life , chemtrails, alien life forms, black helicopters etc. But, those of you who beleive that the leaders of the "movement" to go underground because all of civilization is about to crumble are going to be proved right, start looking at the evidence! It's not happening!

Prepping for any disaster is a good idea and I don't condemn you for it. Having survived two Texas Tornadoes, I can vouch for that! Sitting around wishing for the end of the world and looking for any insignificant thread of evidence to hold onto the beleif and yes, with many of you, the DESIRE that we all be thrown into chaos and destruction is disturbing behavior.

-- DAVID (tdavidc@arn.net), January 24, 2000.

hey David, We are always "touchy" around here. I have personally weaned myself down to every other day now! (grin).

I prepped in a way that I could live with and have no regrets, I am better off financially now than I was a year ago.

You made some good points in your last post. You have to realize though that if you come in here making brusque comments (no offense intended) there are people here who will flame you.

Yes, there are a few wacko's who are still hoping for the end of the world and will be disappointed if it does not happen. Most of the people in here are not that way, however. They are concerned and they know that y2k was always a long term issue and they are keeping an wary eye on it as they go about the business of life. Hey! I am one of them.

It is increasingly clear that there will be few problems as long as the oil situation clears up and the economic bubble does not burst.

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), January 24, 2000.

David, and others...

When I ran away for the rollover (yes, I admit it) I figured there was only a 3 to 5% chance that I would not be returning home any time soon. That left a 95%+ probability that there would be nothing major in my world that was immediately catastrophic. But as we have discussed here before, only about 10% of all the likely failures were likely to occur at the rollover itself. It is now a footrace to see if the remaining problems (yes, they exist) can be fixed (either before or after they actually show up) before they cause major infrastructure or economic disruptions.

Businesses have already folded from this y2k thing during the last year. Most ironically to me was the Doulton filter people at the time when their product was in highest demand around the world. Their y2k computer problems sank them. Other companies lost $tens of millions (on top of remediation costs) due to serious and even silly problems caused by either the bug itself or failed fixes. We are seeing a major statistical anomally concerning various plant failures and even explosions. Bad gas kept planes out of the Australian bush for a while. Australia suddenly can not seem to keep a train on the tracks. People are actually dying out there. Are they all connected to y2k? Obviously not all, but some are. But the timing is rather inconvenient either way. If enough people get bit bad, from y2k and other sources combined, all in the same relatively short period in time when many companies and people are already cash poor because of the repairs, preparations and previous snafus, it could still take us all down the economic porcelin pipes.

Hopefully we will still dodge this bullet. You seem to be adamantly arguing that there never even was a bullet. In fact there was and it was a massive shotgun blast with individual pellets landing from before the middle of last year until at least the end of this one. We have blocked and avoided most so far, taken a few flesh wounds so far, but many of the pellets are still headed this way. Almost half have yet to land safely. Some of the wounds we have already taken will not show up until they fester awhile and infect others. Since we made the rollover with most all of the infrastructures intact, our chances are better than ever before, but the only reason for the fat lady to sing this quarter of 2000 is if we collectively fail right about now.

The preparations we made to live regardless of what may come are not "wasted" any more than my car or life insurance. We did not cringe in fear, we made preps to live, and to live as well as we could. Right now many people in Georgia and other parts of the south are grateful that they are prepared to live through the current ice and power failures. "3 day storms" are actually a common occurrance in this country that we all should be prepared to live through, and have a surplus to help others through also, no matter what form the storm may take.

Why am I still here? I do not fully expect y2k to end modern society. I know that it might, and many other things might. And someday it will, but maybe not in my lifetime. "Modern civilization" has ended for hundreds of millions of people already this century. Beirute was a modern resort just a few decades ago. The Texas economy as a whole has returned from decimation, but not all of its citizens have. Kosovo was a modern city, and may be again fairly soon. Kuwait has almost gotten back to where it was, but only at great expense. Some students at Columbine will never rejoin modern society. Y2k has almost become a parable of life. If I am prepared to live through it, I will be prepared to live through almost anything.

It does not matter if it was a stick of dynamite or a nuclear bomb if it goes off right next to ME. I hope it does not go off next to ANY of us, but many will still be affected in many ways. Some companies will still fold. (hopefully few) Some people are yet to be injured y this. I wish you well David (and the rest of you), and I hope you are prepared for whatever comes your way.

-- tree (thetrees@bigfoot.com), January 24, 2000.

yup, I went back and read it. You are right about ooaa12.

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), January 24, 2000.

I gotta go to bed. I'll check this interesting thread tomorrow. God bless us everyone!

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), January 24, 2000.

Have a good night all. Wasn't trying to pick on anyone. Just trying to stir a little debate which is what I enjoy here! If we all agreed, the world would be pretty boring and we would all be pooling our resources to come up with new and exciting Spam recipes.

-- DAVID (tdavidc@arn.net), January 24, 2000.

cuz I like it here!

-- ed (edrider007@aol.com), January 24, 2000.

Interesting Oolah, so your point is???? By the way, I am a real estate entrepreneur, among other things, and Gary North is still a "wanna be" messiah nut case!

-- DAVID (tdavidc@arn.net), January 24, 2000.

OK David,

We are a little touchy. We don't like people with a "know it all" attitude. The US Government spent 50 million dollars on a Y2K command center, because they didn't know what was going to happen. I wonder what kind of crystal ball Mr. Sane uses.

I don't know who you are addressing with this "come out of your bunkers" crap, but it isn't the vast majority of people on this forum. Some of us here don't believe that Y2K is "over." I've been a business programmer for 32 years, and I don't think it's over. Sure, we've had some great news. The rollover went off with very few problems. The first 3 weeks of the year have gone well. But we still haven't seen a month end. We haven't seen a quarter end. I don't expect any of these to end the world, but I do expect problems. Hopefully, they will be minor problems.

We do have a situation with oil, going on right now. I don't know how much of it, if any, is Y2K related, but it is a problem. If you want to join in on the discussion, fine. But you're not going to get along very well here, with remarks about clubbing each other.

Have a nice day. <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), January 24, 2000.

Sysman, the remark about "clubbing" was a joke, or an attempt at one anyway.

What I keep hearing since the rollover has been, wait until three days, wait unil five days, wait until the first week....., it goes on and on. Still a few glitches here and there but nothing that is going to ruin us all.

I beleive I also made it clear in one of my posts that I am very aware that many here are not still hiding in the bunker and never did for that matter. There are those that are in the bunker and indeed, they are WISHING AND HOPING that chaos and destruction would come. That is the most serious consequence we have had, or will have, from the Y2K scare.

-- DAVID (tdavidc@arn.net), January 24, 2000.

David

How about giving it a break. You are a troll by every definition. Make it easy on yourself and everyone else and find a forum that you can be constructive rather than disruptive. Remember you can never tell which way a train has traveled by looking only at the tracks.

-- justwondering (justwondering@giveitabreak.com), January 24, 2000.

I need to check my attitude "young man"? I happen to think I have a pretty decent attitude. I havent called anyone names, (well, maybe Gary North), I am willing to listen to divergent opinions, I haven't made comments about anyone with a divergent opinion needing to see a Shrink, made childish masturbation jokes about them, scolded anyone like they were a child ("young man") and I haven't tried to Spam the board with profane unintelligible posts. The reason I made the post I did originally is to stir some healthy debate. Reading about someone not being able to get their credit card to go through at Red Lobster, etc. is getting pretty boring!

Time to take stock and see how things look and evaluate, me included!

I'm here to talk as well as listen TO INTELLIGENT ARGUMENTS ON TOPIC and if you aren't willing to do the same, then you need to find another thread.

I am opinionated but I also enjoy playing devils advocate a great deal of the time just for the sake of spirited discussion. If you can't deal with that, sorry.

-- DAVID (tdavidc@arn.net), January 24, 2000.

David,

Go home.

-- TrollStomper (DoomersUnited@TB2000.Net), January 24, 2000.

David, It's pretty easy to say "I told you so" from a monday morning quarterback perspective. But I submit to you that we've barely seen the first quarter.

Maybe the reason we're pretty touchy here is that there are a lot of people who come here just to incite arguments. They call us idiots and say "Give it up". We're tired of it. If you think it's over why are you browsing around here? Go troll over at CNN.com if you want to hang with lowbrow idiots, you won't find any here.

-- Powder (Powder47keg@aol.com), January 24, 2000.

DAVID,

Would you explain to me how you know that the key global supply chain repercussions have for the most part materialized and that foreign oil issues have been resolved? It seems to me that you've taken a rather big leap of faith here. Maybe you have information that I don't. Could you share it?

Thanks,

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 24, 2000.

Goodmorning everyone! I see you kept at the discussion while I slept.

I would like to make a friendly observation. I have no problem with stomping trolls who are abusive, vulgar and unwilling to engage in rational discussion. But, why is it that every time someone comes into this forum to state the opininion that y2k is "over," or was "over-hyped," there are numerous voices here that are ready to call such a person a "troll" for just stating their opinion? Why do so many of you immediately tell them to leave the forum?

David seemed a bit caustic, but respectful in his expression of his opinions to me. I don't understand the immediate reaction of some to call him a troll and tell him to leave. Could it be that you don't want to hear his opinion?

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), January 24, 2000.

"Are you people still here? My God! Just came by to see if the site was sut down and some of you are still saying the computer crash is going to kill us all! Give it up! It's over!"

Jose, I think it's more because of this opening volley, than anything else. David's statement that it's over is patently incorrect. There's over 11 months left in Y2K. If you want to have a discussion with someone you disagree with, you don't sock him one first. (You, for instance have expressed some POV's that I have disagreed with but I haven't seen you slam anyone expressing them.)

All you have to do is read back through the threads and you'll find that the majority of regular posters welcome opposing viewpoints as long as they remain civil.

Admittedly, some of us have come across as exceedingly harsh, but when you take into account the dozens of disruptors we deal with from day to day, you can see we're being quite gracious to most. When a newbie takes their gloves off, ours come off too.

-- Powder (Powder47keg@aol.com), January 24, 2000.

I have to agree with Jose on this one.

Like I said in a previous post...might be some displaced aggression looming as a result of outrageous spam posts (porno, vulgarity, racial slurs, etc.) which were intended to disrupt the forum.

It's good to hear other opinions, we all benefit from this.

David, I welcome your opinion sir. Your post came across a bit condescending, so it appears that some claws came out. Take some time to read through the posts, and I think this will answer some questions for you.

Thanks much, ~Dee =)

-- Dee (T1Colt556@aol.com), January 24, 2000.

JOSE MIAMI,

your last response was a jewel! This forum will never survive if we all were of the same mindset. Views that differ offer an opportunity to enrich our knowledge, thereby improving our lives into the future.

Why are we still here? Throughout history, TRUTH has been achived by debate. This forum still provides a floor for the search. To close this forum now without KNOWING why the entire world failed in its predictions of y2k disruption, would in my search, be the height of folly. Only with time passing can we know TRUTH. The decline of Rome did not happen in a day.

You and David, IMHO, are not trolls. Reasonable debate adds to my knowledge. Only those who have nothing to offer through intellectual discussion are entitled to the name, TROLL.

Tommy, still searching

-- Tommy Rogers (Been there@Just a Thought.com), January 24, 2000.

Having slept on it, I admit my opening statement was a little harsh. Apologies all around but it appears we may get some reasonable conversation out of this thread after all! Thanks Jose.

I am not a troll but you could probably consider me a polly though I never saw any harm in prepping for a few days of power outage, etc. Quitting jobs, moving to the hills and living in a buried box car with 2000 pounds of dried beans appeared a little radical to me. That and I think some of the "the sky is falling gurus" had/have other agendas.

Those are the kinds of things about this that interest me. THose who turned their lives upside down and who have been obsessed to the point that they prepped for a major crash and are now WISHING that it was TEOTWAWKI just so they could say they were right.

As I said, many prepped to survive physically, they did not prep to be wrong psychologically and that is what is driving a lot of the hostility around here in my opinion. I am also VERY AWARE that those do people do not represent the majority here.

Commments?

-- DAVID (tdavidc@arn.net), January 24, 2000.

DAVID,

I appreciate your forthrightness and civility. And I fully agree with Jose; some people just need to cool off and be more open and receptive to others' opinions.

In your second paragraph above, you described certain actions as being "radical". Could you elaborate? Why did you feel this way? Do you think that it was at least partly because these were actions that were very different than what you had been used to seeing?

Further, would you answer the questions I posed to you above?

Thanks,

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 24, 2000.

Why am I still here? As long as the internet is a freedom to roam arena, I'll surf and land wherever I please. Your question is bizarre, why did you ask it?

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 24, 2000.

David won't answer your questions, eve, because he really is a TROLL. He hasn't answered anyone's questions, have you noticed that? Yet he wants people to comment on HIS posts. He doesn't want DISCUSSION, he wants REACTION. And that is the definition of a TROLL.

-- (TrollHunter@under.bridge), January 24, 2000.

OK Eve. The foregn oil thing is OPEC trying to raise prices! That is not Y2K related, they are simply of a the mindset that they would rather get $28.00 for one barell of oil than $24.00 for two barrels. How does one accomplish this? Slow production. Potential for creating a crisis? You bet! But maybe that is what it is going to take to start production at home again. Being from Texas, I would welcome an upsurge in domestic drilling.

We seem to have had little or no reprucussions from the Y2K glitches as far as being able to get basic goods or anything else for that matter. I am no insider to the computer industry, etc. so I obviously don't claim to know everything but it seems that something would have become very apparent by now. It has not.

The actions I consider radical are the ones where people quit jobs, moved to the rural areas and took on a survivalist life style. I call that radical. Yes, it is not what I am used to seeing from everyday people. Having grown up in a rural part of the world I have always known of those who lived like this. With Y2K, families have been uprooted, split apart, people have gone into bankruptcy and now, since the big event did not happen, they are going to nneed to re- join society. That will make it difficult for many because I would suspect that it is rather hard to explain to a potential employer that "I wasn't employed for the last year because I was prepping for Y2K." Many potential employers are gonna think "nutcase, dont need him around." It is/could prove to be very destructive to those who chose to turn their lives upside down. Re-integrating is not always easy and though it may not be desired, it could be quite necessarry. You can only barter preps for so much. Eventually, you have to get out and make a dollar or two.

Radical to bet your whole way of life, your personal savings, etc. on a possible computer glitch? Yeah, pretty radical.

-- DAVID (tdavidc@arn.net), January 24, 2000.

DAVID,

Your oil take does beg the question of what's really happening in the other countries' oil facilities as we speak. Personally, I'd like to see more than what you wrote here to raise my comfort level.

And you don't appear to even understand my supply chain query, as shown by your implication that since you can still buy a car today, everything must be ok. If this is what you believe, I suggest you read Leonard Read's "I, Pencil". I don't have the link right now, but perhaps someone can help here.

And did we all know in mid '99 that it was merely "a possible computer glitch"?

Better check your premises. Some did, and arrived at rational decisions to minimize their risk. And the costs of their preps were simply investment and insurance-related decisions. And what makes you think they didn't anticipate and factor in possible re-integration problems?

So, forgive me, what's the problem again?

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 24, 2000.

David, where did you buy your degree? We've got some out-of-work loggers around here who would like to be arrogant yuppies like you, but don't want to have to put any extra effort into actually using the brain cells. If you could do it, maybe they could, too.....

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@tymewyse.com), January 24, 2000.

Actually Norm I EARNED two degrees from two different universities and was employed as an administrator by one of the largest universities in the country for a few years. My formal education is Psychology and Sociology and that is why much of this interest me. The psychological and sociological dynamics are fascinating! I dont claim to be an expert on computers. As long as the switch turns on and my spread sheets run, I am happy and that is all I care to know. I do have several friends who are programmers who told me it was nothing to sweat. I didn't! I am not sitting here saying "told you so". I am more interested in the paranoia that grew up around this thing and what people are doing/thinking since it has apparantly, in most peoples view anyway, become a "non-event".

Eve, I would be happy to read that article if you find the URL. Like I said, I don't claim to be an expert on the technincalities of all this.

-- DAVID (tdavidc@arn.net), January 24, 2000.

Here you go DAVID,

http://www.fee.org/about/ipencil.html

If you don't know how to copy/paste, maybe some kind soul will hot link it for you :-)

-- Netghost (ng@no.yr), January 24, 2000.

DAVID,

While I don't have the URL right now for Read's piece, I'm almost certain if you go to a good search engine and type in the author and title it would come up. I'm pretty sure it's on more than one website. Meanwhile, I'll see if I can find it tonight.

Can anyone help with a link here? Thanks.

Good luck, DAVID.

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 24, 2000.

Netghost, we must have cross-posted. Thanks for the link.

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 24, 2000.

Wait -- not a link -- a URL! (need coffee...)

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 24, 2000.

Link

-- Powder (Powder47keg@aol.com), January 24, 2000.

David, you are sounding apologetic, but I do not buy that you really are at all. All that you did was come here and speak an untruth when you say, "...and some of you are still saying that the computer crash is going to kill us all! Give it up! It's over!"

IF you really "just came by" to see if "you people still here," HOW would you know what anyone had been posting? If you really have been lurking here, you KNOW full well that no one here is saying that the computer crash is going to kill us.

I rather suspect that you either have a problem yourself with a a contentious nature that likes to stir things up and annoy others, or that you are paid to come here and disrupt and make people feel foolish for continuing to monitor their society's happenings; at least, those happenings that keep us concerned.

Those who said "troll" have my vote. The others are being too nice to someone who just came here and said what you did.

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), January 24, 2000.

Elaine,

I hear ya, but I sense that DAVID is sincere, because he's willing to learn something, e.g., he's interested in the article "I, Pencil", and he's still in communication with us, in a more civil manner than that in which he started. I just think his naivete on this issue has gotten the best of him; and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 24, 2000.

Tree:

[Businesses have already folded from this y2k thing during the last year. Most ironically to me was the Doulton filter people at the time when their product was in highest demand around the world. Their y2k computer problems sank them.]

Really? Where did you hear that? Any links? (I don't disbelieve you I'm just curious what happened). Did they fold or did someone buy them out and keep them going?

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 24, 2000.

Paid to come here and annoy? What a great gig if one could get it. Who would pay for such a thing? Anyway, I am apologetic about how rough I started out. Just wanted to stir a little debate as I stated earler. Just got home from a twelve hour day and have not read the article yet but will respond when I get the chance to read it.

-- DAVID (tdavidc@arn.net), January 24, 2000.

Powder,

Thanks for the link.

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 24, 2000.

"Why are you still here?"
"It's over!"

I agree, it's over. I'm still here because I'm a bored person. Every now and then I see a thread worthy of my contributions... (so what possessed me to contribute to this one is the real question).

-- 2 (dont@rock.it), January 25, 2000.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

DAVID said: ...WISHING that it was TEOTWAWKI just so they could say they were right.

This comment really turns reality upside down. Any reading of history will show that there is hardly a generation that escapes a major social upheaval and extreme economic hardship brought about by war, famine, epidemic illness or insurrection. That Y2K could easily be the trigger of any of these problems is more obvious to some people than to others.

Some of us perceive that we're balanced on the edge of a precipice in any case. Russia and China both boldly threaten with the use of nuclear weapons immediately prior to and after the rollover. The stock market swings wildly from one day to the next. Scientists predict that California is well overdue for the big one; which you can't pretend won't affect you wherever you may live. The weather goes crazy, and for whatever reason, oil prices threaten to shoot through the roof.

We don't even have to get into discussing the more far out worries some have about Echelon, chemtrails, and executive orders laying out the specifics for the establishment of martial law.

The only possible reason one would not prepare in the face of this much uncertainty is that they don't really care that much about their own life and those they love. Either that or they figure they can just TAKE what they need from others if things get really bad. Demonizing in advance those who prepare is a way to help wash that idea down.

Just how much does one have to care about their own life and the ones they love to overcome inertia and actually do something to protect them? The urge to act upon uncertainties has to clear several hurdles; the biggest ones being natural laziness and peer pressure.

Those who prepare have to first divorce themselves from the need for approval. We prepare for the possibility of significant disruption even though we know that the likelihood of its happening on any given day is slim. We have a long term perspective. We know that we will be wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong for day after day perhaps for years or even decades. But psychologically we can handle this without having to WISH for bad times just so we can watch most other people suffer even more than we would.

People who refuse to take responsibility for themselves and their loved ones, in the face of uncertainty, are the ones who are excessively caught up in public opinion and obsession with needing to be right on a daily basis. They need so much to be right in the short term that they're willing to risk their lives for it. Thus, they put themselves into a position where they really need to be right.

It's the stress of knowing on some level what they have done that leads them to be abusive toward those who do prepare. They watch us and wish that they had the courage to risk ridicule and to be "wrong". We remind them of the gamble that they've taken and continue to take. Every day that nothing happens they're driven to come here to scream "You're WRONG, so very very WRONG!"

Not only is it incorrect and rude to characterize those who prepare as being unduly concerned with appearances and as having a fear of being wrong, but it is also, ironically, the exact opposite of what is happening. Instead, it's those who don't prepare who best fit this description, particularly if they work to talk others out of preparing, and most especially if they feel compelled to publicly ridicule those who do prepare.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 25, 2000.