I hope by posting this statement about chem-trails that many of the readers of this subject will spend this Sunday a little more at ease in knowing in my opinion that they are probably not in harms way in regard to some massive undercover operation that would put them at a health risk. I have 8000hrs. of commercial flight time with 6500hrs. of it spraying herbicides and insecticides in this country. My knowlege of winds aloft and drift leads me to believe that any high altitude spraying being done would be a tough task for anybody to plan much less accomplish. In most climatical cases on a given day, a spray mission for Kansas City would have to be initiated over Eastern Colorado.If water was used as the carrier,evaporation would occurr fairly quickly leaving only the product to find its way to the target. If oil was used, the drift potential would be beyond comprehension. Even if it did reach the ground, motorist would see a film on their windshield. A large scale spray operation on this magnitude would also use a application rate of less than a gallon to the acre. FAA Control Centers nation-wide would also be aware of this because it would all take place in controlled airspace. Even the military has to talk to these people. And these folks have wives and children also. Nation-wide spraying would be the topic of thousands of professionals in aviation and it would not go unanswered! And even if they are spraying, it is probably a light malathion dose which the public could and has tolerated for years. This would be for mosquito control. The Clinton Death Count rises as we speak but I don't believe the general population is on the hit list!

-- John Thomas (cjseed@webtv.net), January 23, 2000

Answers

Translation: "I'm a cog in the wheel in an industry where there are ten unemployed pilots to replace me at any time if I rock the boat - in other words, I don't know what the hell I am talking about, I have no more facts than you do, and if I did and talked I'd be fired tommorrow and dead next week." As for "a gallon" an acre?? - hey man, a gallon of "heavy" water per acre would NOT be negligible!!

-- Get Real (no@info.here), January 23, 2000.

See CHEMTRAILS - A possible answer? above...

-- Scooter (brucej@infoave.net), January 23, 2000.

John, I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you on this one.

During the second world war in Germany, most of the populous did not KNOW about the concentration camps and the massacre of millions.

At that time there was no internet, and many people did not even have telephones. The radio and newspapers were contolled by the government.

My family in Germany lived through this. After the war they were requested to look at photographs of the atrocities. You can imagine their disgust and horror upon looking at those photos.

Our government has kept many things from us over the years. Just look at history.

What is going on with the con/chem trails? We really don't know for sure at the moment. However, if I were a pilot spraying something that perhaps I wasn't even told what it was or the reason for the spraying, I would sure as heck get my loved ones relocated out of the spray area. So I don't know if that part of the argument really holds up.

-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.Net), January 23, 2000.

John Now take that one gallon per acre and multiply it times each pass. I've been watching these planes fly back and forth ALL DAY LONG FOR THE PAST YEAR !!!

-- Shoo (flyonthewalls@yahoo.com), January 23, 2000.

I live in Northern Minnesota and I can guarantee that there is such a thing as contrails. There were jets flying over my house in big crossing patterns for about a month. Luckily I was unemployed and at home all the time, so I even sent some pictures I took to a website devoted to this subject. Jets were flying too close to be giving a care about FAA regulations. My personal opinion is that it is weather modification. Reader's Digest had an article about it in the late 70's or early 80's. It was titled something like "Who has the right to control the weather" and it was the big headline on the cover, so it caught my attention. Apparantly it started when it was used in Vietnam to slow the opposition's troop and supply movements. In the U.S. the reason the planes are unmarked is because they are usually contracted through the state or federal govn't and the individual planes or owners are not to be held liable for any flashflood/drought problems, etc., if they should occur. This is all right out of Reader's Digest, I promise. If I knew where it went I would give exact issue. Also, when we get sprayed in the winter here, the wind becomes very strong for about a day and then the temps drop and it snows about an inch or two. Then, in a couple of days, it warms up to above average temps untill they do the same thing later and it happens again.

-- J (notjustparanoid@aboutthings.com), January 23, 2000.

J,

We sprayed in Vietman to modify the WEATHER??? That is an interesting modification to KNOWN history! The Zumwalts know better.

-- W (me@home.now), January 23, 2000.

"J" may not remember that the spraying in Vietnam he (she?) referred to was not weather control, but a defoliant. The idea was to strip the leaves from all the trees so aerial reconnaissance could track the movement of the Vietcong through the jungle. The chemical used was called "Agent Orange." Unfortunately Agent Orange had other biological effects.

From this site:

Agent Orange was one of the weed-killing chemicals used by the U.S. in Vietnam. The chemical compounds considered as herbicide agents in Vietnam include 2,4-D; 2,4,5-T and its contaminant TCDD (or dioxin); cacodylic acid and picloram.

See also this site with links to many sources of information on Agent Orange.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), January 23, 2000.

Has it occured to anyone that the easiest way to implement a chemtrail spraying program is to add something to the fuel supply? That way every airplane becomes a chemtrail sprayer, and even "normal" contrails can be chemtrails. All that is required is a scheme to add a chemical to the fuel supply. An example of this is the deadly additive MTBE, mandated to be added to gasoline and responsible for the contamination of water supplies nationwide.

The recent fuel contamination problem that has affected thousands of airplanes in Australia is another example of how a fuel contaminant can have widespread impact.

Could the "anti-anthrax" agent be added to standard airline jet fuel and be effectively dispersed by this method?

In addition to inadvertant spraying by airlines, the pattern of chemtrails photographed and in evidence on several web sites (some of which have been visited by numerous government agencies on many oocasions) indicate an intentional program of blanketing urban areas with contrails possession unusual properties. (Not the least of which being the formation of large visible contrails at altitudes where contrails would not normally form, and the merging of the contrails into sky-obscuring cloud cover. Many have also observed a "dust drifting downward" effect in large chemtrail/contrails, rainbow effects when backlit, and strong odors subsequent to spraying. Others have collected physical evidence after heavy chemtrail activity, including filaments, goo, brown powder, "angel hair", apparently different aspects of a similar substance. Those who handle the substance invariably come down with life-threatening "flus." Others have noticed an upsurge in local respiratory illness (although no authenticated studies have been performed to my knowledge) following heavy contrail activity.

Some Internet journalists have also reported on scientific testing laboratory analysis of chemtrail "fallout" that reveal exotic and normally only mildly dangerous bacteria and viruses, but when examined more carefully, those pathogens betray their origin in biotech labs, including telltale markers (similar to luciferase) of genetic modification.

Another concern is that a chemical additive (banned as a pesticide hazardous to humans) added to the jet fuel. Ethylene dibromide causes respiratory distress and makes the person exposed more vulnerable to respiratory infection, courtesy of the same contrail fallout. This dovetails into my theory quite nicely.

-- Ceemeister (ceemeister@hotmail.com), January 23, 2000.

Ceemeister, you are right on target with your comments. However, I still believe that there are planes containing chemical tanks, from which solutions and powders have been sprayed. There are photos of the spraying planes, where the aerosol is clearly seen to be coming from spray nozzles. Let me add one more element to this discussion:

Odessa, Texas (AP) The German Air Force says the United States has no court jurisdiction to restrict its Luftwaffe pilots from low-level training missions in West Texas.

The Luftwaffe responded last week to a lawsuit filed by a coalition of ranchers in U.S. District Court. The plaintiffs claim the low-level flights endanger people and livestock.

Near-collisions have been reported with civilian aircraft as well as spooked horses throwing cowboys and people being bowled over by powerful downdrafts the planes create at low altitudes.

Defendants in the lawsuit include both the Luftwaffe and the U.S. Air Force, which is training German Pilots at Holloman Air Force Base in Alamogordo, N.M.

LUFTWAFFE INVADE NEW MEXICO, June 24, 1996.

On May 1st, Secretary of Defense William Perry took part in a ceremony at New Mexico's Holloman Air Force Base making the official opening of a German military installation there. The facility is the first permanent military installation established in the United States by a foreign nation.

The unit, commanded by Colonel Eckard Sowada of the German Air Force, is already home to 12 European-built Tornado strike fighter planes. Approximately 300 German military personnel are stationed there, along with their families. Germany will add another 30 Tornadoes, 600 more military personnel, and additional family members by 1999. Germany will pay the U.S. $40 million annually until 1999, and $100 million annually therafter.

My comments: Late last year, two of the German planes collided in mid-air and crashed near the base, one nearly hit a refinery. No one in the press was allowed to photograph the planes or question anyone about the event. The U.S. Government said that no one, include the U.S. Government has any jurisdiction to investigate the matter.

So, I ask you, is not this German base a good location to launch chemical spraying equipped aircraft? There are no witnesses, no one who will 'expose' the operation. It has been said by someone knowledgable of what is happening, "One of them made a mistake. They had to land to refuel. Some of our people got a look at them."

Such aircraft can also originate from outside of our borders. Do not underestimate this administration, or the shadow government behind them.

-- Y2kObserver (Y2kObserver@nowhere.com), January 24, 2000.

John, on one of the many chemtrail/contrail websites, and I don't recall which one, but someone here may be able to pinpoint it, I saw photos of the "goo" that settles on windshields, leaves of plants, etc.

Also, these are lower altitude X's in the sky than the normal high altitude flights that take place over Northern Virginia, outside DC. And would any organization, agency, etc., be spraying herbicides and pesticides nationwide and in each and every season, including winter?

-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), January 24, 2000.

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No. No way this would work.

The high temperatures and pressures in the jet engine (as the molecules pass through high pressure pumps, then the flames of the jet itself, would destroy any chemical into its simplest parts: carbon, water, carbon monoxide, and various nitrogen oxides would be all that could be analyzed coming out.

To work (as any carbon-linked chemical compound) as any kind of boilogical anything, the stuff couldn't be burned or heated, nor even exposed to the extreme low termperatures sommon at altitude: buring, for example, is the way they sterilize/dispose of toxic medical chemicals.

Dispersal is assumed to be at relativelow levels (10,000 - 15,000 feet are what others have said is a typical altitude for the crosses and x's common ot chemtrails. If so, from only two-three miles up, dispersal to the ground of any aerosal would happen within five-ten miles, perhaps as little as 2-4 miles. That reduces significantly the area in quesion, and thus increases the "dose" to people below.

The crossing patterns typical of chemtrails ensure that any agent would be relatively evenly distributed. If biological, not chemical, then only a little is needed. IF Research (not actually distributing biologocal agents) then only enough is needed under enough different circumstances (temperature, wind, altitude, nature of dispersal) to test what works and what dosen't.....

Then, if an emergency does occur, then the real spraying can begin using the process that proved most successful in today's trials.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), January 24, 2000.

Elaine, If you can send some photos of chemtrails to the my e-mail address I would appreciate. I'm not a non believer, but it is difficult for me to comprehend what is exactly going on. No large scale contracted spraying operation for weed or insect control would be going on any where in the dead of winter. And this high altitude spraying people are discussing would be make it impossible to know where the chemical would finally end up. And I'm talking about just trying to target even a selected State. I guess if they're trying to blanket the whole U.S. that would answer that question.

-- John Thomas (cjseed@webtv.net), January 24, 2000.

John Thomas, I do not blame you for being skeptical. One has to examine all aspects of this phenomenon before coming to certain conclusions.

I come from a 'flying' famiy. I also know that we don't necessarily know the truth of the matter.

I will re-post what I have made available on other threadsfor the purpose of thought examination. I do not know the answer. I simply question the outcome of NO spraying versus SPRAYING. All I can tell you is that all of my flying family members (now retired) have seen such and do not accept such as *normal*. What follows below is bonafide research. You come to your own conclusions.

For clarification on this topic, it has been established that in order for contrail formation to 'maintain' and morph into a cloudlike formation, the atmosphere must be of high humidity and the temperature must reach minus 38 to minus 50 degrees centigrade (depending on who you are listening to). What this info. does is to offer the skeptic a few important revelations. If the chemtrails are appearing at a lower altitude than higher flying commercial traffic that are emitting contrails that dissipate quickly, then what does that say about the above statement? It says that these contrails are forming under different atmospheric conditions than are present perhaps only 10,000 feet higher, or perhaps up to 20,000 feet higher. Could it happen? Yes, but it has been established to be a RARE occurence for it to be warmer at a higher altitude, while colder at a lower altitude. It has also been questionable for humidity levels to vary that much (when you are examining levels on a clear cloudless day) between the altitudes we are talking about.

One other anomaly reported is the discrepancy over traffic patterns on days of spraying. Normal traffic patterns over much of the skies are pre-set. They are 'highways in the sky', if you will. Much of the time, when these chemtrails are being laid, the traffic patterns are different from the norm.

This is not to say that every single contrail that is laid and remains in the sky for a period of time is a chemtrail. We know that to be false, but we cannot establish plausability for all of the suspected chemtrail activity seen under the above stated circumstances.

Hope this helps.

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), January 25, 2000.

As far as contracted chemical spraying goes, you have to understand that the program that is being undertaken is most definitely NOT a contracted insecticide spray program.

We are talking about ethylene dibromide at the very least (and perhaps worse), being released in major spraying operations over major cities, as well as minor populace cities. Now, one would ask why that would occur. The answer lies in the dispersal pattern now known to occur.

What is released in Colorado could likely land several hundred miles to the east, so if one particular city is being rampantly sprayed, it does not necessarily mean it will land on same. It is most likely slated for other parts.

Too simple and too scarey. Get used to it. Prepare.

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), January 25, 2000.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

John Thomas (cjseed@webtv.net): My photos, all three taken within a one minute period, show what the whole sky looked like approximately 20 minutes after I witnessed some spraying near where I live.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 25, 2000.