To all,

I am amazed at the underhanded and despicable manner in which these destructive trolls have now conducted themselves. They have achieved new lows in savagery. They've attempted to destroy me and my work and not just posting here at TB2K. They also have demonstrated that they can't correctly investigate the facts before leaping to conclusions. But I need to set the record straight and demonstrate why these "Pollies" are not to be trusted. First of all, no one's personal religious views has a thing to do with a secular factor like Y2K. What we have here is another example of Political correctness carried over into the theological realm. But let me set the record straight on so many other points. I saw blatant, libelous mischaracterization, and misrepresentation from the start. Let's start from the top.

My email was always valid, unlike those of my detractors. My theological views were kept out of the Y2K debate as they are truly OT for such a forum as this. The Pollies would now attempt to make it On Topic. I resist such a notion. My views though, are as valid as any views the rest of you may have, whether it be Christian, Jewish, Agnostic, Atheistic, Islamic or whatever. Ironically though, the notion of TEOTWAWKI is in complete contradiction to my views. I never promoted TEOTWAWKI. But they would have you the reader believe that I was the leader of doomism. A 5 to 7 is the most that I assigned to Y2K, far from TEOTWAWKI. I never said the oil industry would collapse, though I said that if certain events occurred it might so damage the industry that it might take 10 years to recover to 1999 levels. Premised upon a possible collapse at rollover.

I ALSO NEVER PROMOTED MY THEOLOGY here on this forum. I have not tried to make any money from Y2K in any way. Neither did I try to promote a book here for profits. Frankly, my 256 page book had 2 printings and did rather well during its run but is now out of print. The distributors are now out of stock. The website features a free online magazine type of site for articles relating to T-H-E-O-R-I-E-S involving Biblical Prophecy of which there are many and varied such views.

What must be noted here is that these trollish detractors can't get the facts straight. My theological research is THEORETICAL. Furthermore, it has no particular time frame, other than speculation in its possible occurence in the near term. No dates were set. I'm not a date setter nor do am I a proponent of "Bible Codes"as was alleged in one post. In fact the insane reference was actually for an article which refuted the Bible Codes theory. Furthermore, the material in question looks at all the other theories out there, even the fringe stuff...just to present the reader with all the optional views. No editorial endorsement was provided when presenting alternative theoretical views. But those facts must not get in the way of the Polly Trolls. They never paid much attention to the facts. Their responses here on this thread have amply demonstrated that they just can't get their facts straight nor keep them straight. If they had taken the time to read carefully they would not have made the claims that they've made. That includes their insinuation about "aliens"... Had they bothered to read carefully, they'd have realized that "aliens" is a ruse as part of the theory proposed.

Regarding my own research on the issues that have been raised by the Pollies...the material research involves the extensive use of the ancient Koine-Greek text and the ancient Hebrew texts of the biblical writings. How many of these detractors know those languages? Do they know what a first, second or third Aorist tense is? Can they read the Dead Sea Scrolls? Hmmm? Can any of these detractors do translation work in those 2 languages? My research materials and articles work form the basis for the above & it is from a THEORETICAL perspective. My work examines and searches for an understanding of the term "Mystery Babylon." of the Biblical Prophecies. This research has spanned many (12) years of careful and scholarly research. Now I see it being twisted and distorted by a kindergarten kind of mentality from those who are hopelessly incapable of grasping what they're reading or seeing. Does anyone wonder why I would wish to keep this apart from Y2K? It is very complex, little understood issue easily distorted by the uninformed troll and it has no reason to become a focal point on a discussion forum about any issue like Y2K. In fact, my research regarding Mystery Babylon indicates that whatever nation is "Mystery Babylon"... the description of events involving her is precluded by a period of great prosperity and no war on her home soil. In other words, the Mystery Babylon data points, preclude a Y2k if it is to happen around Y2K. So, I never felt that the Mystery Babylon theory was pertinent to Y2K. period. Y2K was/is a totally separate issue and antithetical to one another if to occur simultaneously or nearly simultaneously. But that didn't stop the Pollies from jumping to conclusions now, did it?

Frankly, I'd love to argue with you Pollies on the merits of the subject. There is one problem in arguing the merits of "Mystery Babylon" on this forum. It is off-topic for this forum. It has nothing to do with Y2K. It never did. In fact, aside from the oil post with Y2K I had only one other Y2K type of article which analyzes a prediction involving the antichrist and which states that the antichrist will think to to change the calendar system. (Daniel 7:25). The idea being that IF we are now near that time-frame for the antichrist then indeed there MIGHT be a Y2K connection but whether that might be related to computers and problems was not the real issue. What the Pollies didn't bother to read in that article nor recognize is that there is right now a move underway to change the calendrical system that the world operates under. I'd give a link for proof but in double checking it, I see it is now a dead link. It is based upon a PR statement from the WORLD SUMMIT ON PEACE and TIME held in Costa Rica from June 22-27th, 1999. Among the participants were members of the UN and a key behind-the-scenes power broker named Maurice Strong who was one of the guiding forces in getting Bill Clinton elected.

Other than that there is nothing else in my website relating to Y2K. My views are that we are a long way from the end of the world. Oh, and "armageddon" in the ancient writings is not the end of the world. It is the end of a long-term era of a millenia. A new long term time frame of 1,000 years follows it...so Y2K could not be TEOTWAWKI as I see it. But I didn't argue it with those folks who did think TEOTWAWKI. Why? Why should I? Let people have their views. Don't act like a Nazi or a Communist to impose your own views on others. However, the Pollies wish to do this, as evidenced by their tactics, including what we've now seen on this thread with all of its intimidations.

Another of the issues these Polly Trolls raised involved Freemasonry and George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. For those who are unaware, George Washington was a Mason as were most of the key founding fathers. Not only is this acknowledged by masonic websites but also in Federal governmental documents including those relating to the cornerstone-laying of the Capitol building and a bronze-relief artwork portraying Washington laying the cornerstone in his masonic apron with trowel. There is the issue of the masonic monument to Washington (the Washington Monument). There are numerous links to the Library of Congress website and masonic websites on these matters. Want links? I can dig them out.

Jefferson was not a member of freemasonry but he shared many of their views, he was more of a follower of Adam Weishaupt who founded the Bavarian Illuminati movement in 1776. Both groups have dictums that point to Egyptian religion, and also to Crusaders secret dogmas, both of which can be traced back to the Sumerians/Babylonians. All of the pantheistic ancient religions, from Egypt to Assyria, to Greece, to Rome, and also Phoenicia...all were derived from Babylon but transformed & adapted to their own culture. Ishtar worship was the most popular and was adopted almost universally but with various doctrinal elements altered.

Other famous founding fathers who were masons included Ben Franklin, Thomas Payne and many more. I also provided links on that.

From the US Library of Congress are documents showing that the Capitol building was modelled after the Roman Pantheon... and the Roman pantheon was a copy of the Babylonian Pantheon.

The key book on the history of the Statue of Liberty written by Marvin Trachtenburg is cited regarding the history of the Statue of Liberty. He meticulously points out from the diary of the sculptor Bartholdi that the concept was based upon the ancient roman goddess known as Libertas (Liberty) from 4th-6th Century B.C. The Romans borrowed this goddess from Babylon's Ishtar. Ishtar was the chief goddess of Babylon and was called by many names, including main titles of "queen of heaven." "goddess offreedom/liberty," (she was the goddess of slaves who prayed to her for liberation). She was also called the goddess of prostitutes because this goddess introduced prostitution to the world and it was considered "holy." In Ishtar worship ones sins were forgiven by going to the temple and engaging in ritual sexual relations with a temple priestess or priest and paying money. This action cleansed one from sin. This process also promoted homosexuality equally to heterosexuality and both were holy within the temple framework. As I stated, she went by other titles also. She was also the goddess of Immigrants and Immigration. Now, the sculptor, Bartholdi...was a freemason. So too was the fellow who led the fundraising efforts for the statue, LaBoulaye.

But the Statue of Liberty isn't the only artistic representation of Ishtar floating on the American Cultural scene. So too is the statue atop the US Capitol dome. She is the Statue of Freedom. As you research into this statue you find the artist was also a freemason who also took up the project from a Congressional award. The statue was to be a rendering of the goddess of Freedom of Rome... i.e. Libertas. Libertas= Liberty or Freedom depending on how you wish to translate it. In the early part of the 19th century (prior to the Civil War) Libertas was primarily translated as "freedom". This rendering was of the goddess as a warrioress...which was also another aspect of Ishtar...she was the goddess of war and also the goddess of love. She promoted both war and wild, wanton sexuality. She introduced the concept of not only homosexuality but also incest, and bestiality as well as other strange perversions. Ishtarism promoted the concept of "if it feels good, do it." I've just scratched the surface of her various dogmas. Needless to say, the statue on the US Capitol dome is another rendering of Ishtar of Babylon. OH, there is also a version of her on the Texas state capitol. There may other versions at other state capitols, but I'm not sure. Again, the Library of Congress provides pivotal confirmation along with the older visitor materials given to tourists at the Capitol building.

In addition to this there are statues/paintings of many other "Greek/Roman gods" inside the US Capitol building, including inside on the dome ceiling. These deities were borrowed from Babylon. America has a hidden connection to Babylonian influences as have all other great empires and nations.

Another Babylonian oddity linked to the USA is that the second most popular temple in all of Babylonia was called "The White House" -- a temple of the sun god UTU (a.k.a Shamesh)... who by the way, has a link to the Statue of Liberty as Marvin Trachtenburg's book also points out, in that the 7 crown spikes of the Statue of Liberty is to reflect the "enlightenment" of the sun god (Utu or Shamesh) with each of the 7 spikes & to reflect that light of Utu to each of the 7 continents on planet Earth. The lamp of the Statue of Liberty was originally to be a golden cup, but at the last minute, after the cup was made, the city of New York asked for a change to a lamp to assist in nighttime marine traffic as a lighthouse. The sculptor complied and a lamp was made instead. The "golden" cup was later sold to the czar of Russia and later held by the Communist Soviet Union. In 1996 or 1997, Russia quietly attempted to put it up for sale. I never did here if it was sold or not. Originally the Statue was to not be copper, but was to be in colors or at least her robe was to be the color of Scarlet-Purple. She was also initially designed to be a royal queen bedecked with royal jewelry but that was later scrapped, along with the color idea as being too expensive, but it was the original design and intent were it not found later to be impractical and too expensive.

Don't believe it? Read: "The Statue of Liberty Revisited -- Essays" Edited by Wilton S. Dillon and Neil G. Kotler Published by Smithsonian Institution Press, Washington D.C.

"The Statue of Liberty" by Marvin Trachtenberg Published by Viking-Penguin, New York, New York. [ the author is a well-known and respected artistic historian. His book is considered to be one of the definitive histories of the Statue. ]

Both will confirm the masonic connections and the links to goddess Libertas concept. There is so much more data out there, and much of it in my research work. But the pollies didn't bother to read it. They don't seem to get much of anything right and they certainly don't let the facts get in their way in regards to my materials.

Regarding the notion of aliens. Had they bothered to read carefully, they would have realized that nothing is being promoted about real aliens existing. This "alien" idea is actually linked to angeology and the rebel angels now engaged in a cosmic civil war against the Creator God of the Universe and these forces utilize the tactic of deception upon the human race. My thesis is that there will be an action undertaken by angelic forces that will be explained as an alien attack by governments here on earth. The action taken by the angelic forces will be a re-run of what happened with Sodom and Gomorrah and the "7 cities of the plain" only this time it will be a much larger operation. The action will precede the rise of the Antichrist. It will last an hour and be total destruction. What is the basis for making the claim that this mystery Babylon is the USA and not the Roman Catholic church or Iraq, or the New World Order, or the UN or some other nation or city? Well, in my book, I feature 2 lists; one lists 33 character traits found in the relevant Old Testament passages. In Appendix One, I have another list and it totals 66 character traits.

All of this comes from the following Biblical scriptures relating to a future nation code-named Mystery Babylon... [NO-- this has nothing to do with Bible Codes, the idea of "code" is metaphorical]

See the following passages ... Isaiah chapters 13, 14, 18, 47; Jeremiah chapters 50,51; and Revelation chapters 17 and 18 plus segment of Revelation chapter 16 and verses 17-2. Among the most revealing character traits of mystery Babylon are:

Is a world super-power and the last of the world super powers. She is the world's policman. Hebrew idiom used to describe Rome's role in putting out brush fire wars around the empire, she was the "hammer of the whole earth" the equivalent to our idiom of World Policeman. She carries out her police enforcement by means of "gunboat diplomacy"... A Hebraic obscure idiom...for foreign policy carried out by warships. Their idiom for this was also later used to describe the actions taken by the Assyrian, Persian and Greek and Roman fleets. Rome particularly as a show of force to intimidate an opponent to submit and to reassure an ally, "showing the flag."

M.B has defenses in space. Whether weapons or communications? Not sure

Her leaders are holed up in "bunkers" during the attack.

She is the world's wealthiest nation. She is the engine of wealth for the world's economy. When destroyed the world's merchants lament her destruction by wailing that no man buy's their merchandise anymore.

Her chief city is a deepwater seaport, which has a 24-hour a day party lifestyle characterized by bright gaudy colored lights and "orgiastic partying all night long"... which is considered the chief city in the world. It is a city/nation of immigration for the world.

Mystery Babylon is both hated and yet respected and envied by the world.

Babylon and her chief city are where all the world's leaders "stream" to meet. Her chief (or largest city) surrounds where the kings meet.

She has no fear of invasion of her home soil.

She is noted for her drug use.

She had a unique and different beginning than other nations before her and awe-inspiring in her birth and noted as a land of rebels not only in birth but also in judgment.

She is a cosmopolitan and urban nation and yet maintains herself with her own agriculture. She is more than a city, she is a nation of many cities with an army, and navy and air power with defenses reaching into outer space.

Is allied to Satanic forces, literally and physically.

Mystery Babylon is noted for being the: Leader in trading of gold Leader in trading of silver Leader in trading of copper Leader in trading of oil Leader in trading of lumber Leader in trading of iron. Leader in trading of grains and meats and food.

Mystery Babylon: Is the key marketplace for buying of gems Is the key marketplace for cosmetics Is the key marketplace for fashion clothing, marble, ivory, wine, health products, transportation.

Her merchants are the "Mega-merchants" or "super-merchants" of the earth. Her merchants are the experts in marketing, merchandising, public relations etc. Indications that she has a service economy and that she is a net importer of goods that she takes in more than she exports.

She is wasteful and extravagant and noted for being a polluter. The nation is so wrapped up in patriotism that it becomes self-deification (and idolatry of self). She in turn exports this notion to the rest of the world along with all of her cultural aspects to the rest of the world.

Her leaders are deceit-filled and twice as wicked as any others. They apparently enter into secrets with the Satanic forces... and this helps them to believe that they cannot be seen. "stealth"... seems to indicate the notion that either some war capability is stealthy or the leaders think they are "stealthy" as in invisible in their treachery. "no one sees me anymore"

Her symbol is of a robed woman with a container in her hand which is seen surrounded by many waters and people, particularly immigrants. She has a "mother-like" status (but she's not a mother) and also as a philosophical way of life. She is called the "Mother" of Prostitutes as in a Madam of a house or Temple of prostitution (in the greek text the word has a connotation to our word for exiles.) Statue of Liberty is also called "Mother of Exiles" as the goddess Ishtar was called "Mother of Immigrants." Because Babylon also was THE place for people to immigrate to. There they would enjoy liberty and freedom. It was also a land of many cultures and religions. Hence the Number 1 religious site was the PANTHEON of Babylon, a temple dedicated to ALL the gods of the world. Here we had a one-world religion practised with the other religions being subservient.

Mystery Babylon is noted for an attitude of over-optimism with a "can- do" attitude, especially in regards to her future. Everything is hunky-dory in Babylon until suddenly...a cosmic Pearl Harbor of sorts ensues.

She is noted as a land of many fresh waters, with a broad river in its middle and a land divided by many rivers... emphasis on this M.B. as a nation having abundant, clean drinking water, unlike the rest of the world.

Her military rules the oceans, references to her having some kind of dominating air power (whirring wings on her ships) and that she has some kind of defenses in space... she has some kind of presence in the atmosphere where there is no air. (the ethers)... As in earth orbit.

Now I could give the Biblical passages for references if someone asks me for them but they are in the prior references given above. The above is just a sampling of the various data points that give us the character traits that help identify what nation might fit these characteristics. The theory here holds to the notion that for several years now, and for the near term anyway these traits certainly seem to fit the USA. These traits may hold for perhaps 10, 20 or 30 years. Maybe even 100 years. We just don't know. The end point of the theory is that this Super-Power MB is destroyed by a supernatural event, that will undoubtedly be explained away as an "alien" attack and this will spur the world finally into a "one world" government for planetary defense purposes. However, the unity will not be cohesive nor lasting. BTW, The actual destruction will be carried out by the same folks that brought on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and the 7 sister cities of the Plain, near the today's Dead Sea. In fact, we now have satellite images that show some of these cities underneath the Dead Sea. They also had Pyramids too or so it seems from image enhancements. I can provide a link if anyone would like to see those fascinating pictures. It's from a group that has done TV documentaries on archaeology.

Another issue these Trolls twisted: The SOHO images which are on my website relate to strange anomalies imaged by the NASA/ESA satellite that monitors Solar activity. This includes some strange objects that cannot be easily nor readily explained. We flat out do not know what they are. They were posted to underscore that we really don't know nor have all the answers out in space as modern science would lead one to believe. We posted articles providing an analysis of the false prophecies of Nostradamus along with other fakes and charlatans. But you wouldn't know it to read the Pollies descriptions.

For some reason, these pollies have assumed that I was some sort of backer of a fellow named Icke? Wrong again. (Couldn't you just figure it though, par for the course). Icke was simply referenced for his fringe contacts and claims. No endorsement was given and rather, a disclaimer was made. We would monitor a variety of viewpoints for various reasons and not because we endorsed them. Just like the debunkers monitor TB2000. It doesn't mean they endorse this site now does it?

That pretty much sums up the main points raised by the Polly detractors. As you can see, it has very little to do with the notion of doom and gloom for Y2K TEOTWAWKI. My theories of Mystery Babylon have no bearing whatsover on Y2k issues. Period.

Also, had they bothered to read the material carefully they would have noted that my research started out to disprove the notion that the US was Mystery Babylon. For several years I tried to dig up irrefutable proof. I couldn't. No matter how hard I tried. I was in total disbelief that USA=Babylon theory should be considered as a theory. This was in part because of what I learned while studying theology at the Moody Bible Institute of Chicago and Calvary Bible College in Kansas City. I was forced by the textual evidence from working in the ancient Hebrew and Greek texts to reconsider the possibilities.

Needless to say, my material on this is only for the academics in theology, and not for the general public. Frankly it is something that is so far over the average person's head that a casual introduction provides little or no understanding of the data. It involves time and investigative and educational effort to understand it enough to give it a judicious and fair evaluation.

Thus it was totally off base and out of bounds for this forum. Now, the Polly Trolls have raised the issue. But a Y2K forum is NOT the place to discuss these issues rationally.

Frankly the Trolls have gone far out of bounds on this. They have victimized one too many times. Their destruction deserves prosecution. It's gonna cost me to rebuild my website not to mention the time involved. Plus I don't even do webmastering.

It's an outrage in what these people have perpetrated here not only upon myself but upon many others. I realize SYSOPS have their hands tied. There is nothing that they could do. But unless something is done about CPR and his cohorts like LL things will only deteriorate. I hope the Feds and other law enforcement officials will finally be able to come forward and apprehend and prosecute these people for the crimes that they have committed. I wish there were some way to ban them from access to this forum. I know other software forums have such capabilities, it might have helped stop this nonsense a long time ago if it were employed back then.

I've attempted to provide meaningful dialogue and helpful information. For my efforts I have been smeared and libeled maliciously. False statements and characterizations have been made about me repeatedly here by these destructive Polly Trolls. I, for one, look forward to the opportunity to see those responsible brought to justice. In the meantime, this forum has ceased to be what it started out to be. These destructive persons have been allowed to reign here and control this board as it pleased them. It is no longer a safe place for discussion and it will not be a safe place for discussion as long as the perpetrators run free. You will not see me back here again. It's time to go. I wish it were not so, but I am tired of the dealing with these people. For most of you folks, I've have the utmost respect and admiration. I wish you well. I hope that we have or will soon see a peaking of the worst aspects of Y2K, but its obviously not over yet. Not over for the oil industry nor perhaps for segments of the manufacturing industry. As someone re-posted my very first post here, you will note at the bottom, I never said it would be a 10. I said a range of 5 to 7 was most likely. Since Jan 1, I've pulled it back to a "5" and I still see "5" as a real serious possibility/probability? Not exactly doomerism but certainly not pollytrollyism either.

I do want to say thank you to all of those who've been such an integral force in this forum. This includes Ed Yourdon, the Sysops including, Diane and Chuck, and the mysterious Sysops #3. Also, to folks like Andy, Gordon, Downstreamer, Linkmeister, Homer Beanfang, Cheryl from Oregon, Dr. Paula Gordon, Sysman, Big Dog, Dog Gone, Robert Cook, Shakey, Hokie, Mike, Bokonon, Night train, King of Spain, Snooze button, Carl, Wilferd, Will Continue, Ashton & Leska and so many others of you whom I am not sure if your still there are not plus those that are now gone from the forum who were such a wonderful folk to meet and talk with. I've enjoyed our discussions even if we've not always agreed all the time.

Farewell and may grace and peace be with you.

-- RC mailto:racambab@mailcity.com, January 22, 2000

-- (.X.@xxx.xxx), January 22, 2000

Answers

Thanks for all your hard work RC!

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 22, 2000.

Hey RC

The best to you! I've followed alot of what you have said regarding to the oil industry. Havent't had too much to say since I am more of a lurker around here. Sounds like your are a bit pissed off. And since I don't frequent this place I'm not a 100% why, but I do get the gist.

snikpoh

-- snikpoh (snikpoh@ecentral.com), January 22, 2000.

RC...It's late here and I'm very tired, but I did try to skim your post quickly to catch the gist of it...will read again tomorrow. I'm not sure what all happened to you, but I'm sorry to see you go. I also don't know what all was launched at you, but I know it has gotten vitriolic at times on this forum. So many people cannot seem to handle basic disagreement. Instead of taking it so personally, and then resorting to personal insults and worse, I wish we would realize we are disagreeing with ideas, opinions, and beliefs. I've lost my temper in arguments, so not judging...just wishing with a sigh.

Are you certain you must leave? Perhaps a vacation from the potty mouths and vandals, and you could return occasionally?

Best wishes to you...

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002MnB

-- (.X.@xxx.xxx), January 22, 2000.

RC, Well reasoned opinions are the currency of life. Yours is more literate than most. I find your essay to be fascinating and inexplicable. Your search for the meaning is commendable.

I don't see any connection between Mystery Babylon and your observations of the oil industry. Trolls are so named for a reason. I cringe to think that so many are departing this forum when faced with the incessant noise from their intellectual inferiors. I would hope that you could filter the noise and continue to provide observations and opinion that makes this place so interesting and useful.

I have been a Y2K lurker at many places for a long time and find this forum to be the most interesting by far. This is my only post in all these many visits.

Good luck and solve the mystery!

-- Weather Mountain (weather mountain@blueridge.va), January 22, 2000.

I'm truly sorry you were treated so poorly here, RC. I for one have admired your efforts. BTW, exactly what happened to your site?

-- Yan (no@no.no), January 22, 2000.

I'm not sure what to say. RC's contributions were certainly welcomed here. Whether they are/were accurate or not remains to be seen. His website is down--he implies the "Trolls" caused damage to it somehow. Can this be confirmed? Regardless, I would agree with RC that it is largely irrelevant to Y2k.

This whole sordid mess infuriates me. CPR is a destroyer without conscience. That he is allowed to continue to post here, in all his guises, defies belief.

You will be missed, RC. May grace and peace be with you as well.

-- weary of destructive trolls (cpr@will.rot.in.hell), January 22, 2000.

R.C.

All thinking people are truly sad to see you go.

You have been hounded repeatedly by the likes of CPR, LL, and a host of others as have I. If you want any backup in prosecuting these people I will be only too please to help as they have both slandered and libelled myself too. I have had my e-mail at home ruined once and have neen sent thousands of lines of spam together with worm virae. there is a certain amount onrecord, together with the ISP's numbers, so if the sysops want to help then I will come forward as a witness. No problem at all. These morons simply want to destroy free speech - period. i would never dream of setting foot on their web sites, I have know interest in discoursing with retards.

"For some reason, these pollies have assumed that I was some sort of backer of a fellow named Icke?"

I am a great admirere of David Icke and have recommended his books to neophytes in the ways of the world many times. I have also said that he is not a guru, and is by no means perfect. His research is ongoing and he is open to changing his views if evidence he has gone by turns out to be inaccurate or misleading. He has an open mind, as do I.

So because I believe in much of what Icke stands for I am repeatedly smeared by the likes of Anita, and Johnny Cannuck, and evem Hoffmeister and Flint as "Andy the whacko who believes in Alien reptilian Shape-shifters"...

They repeatedly tried to destroy my credibility on many threads by citing the above, even though I have said many times that I don't necessarily buy all that stuff - again, I have an open mind, and that includes the subject of ET's.

So shame on all you detroyers of free speech - you've all managed to ruin one of the best places on the net with your retarded antics.

Again RC you have my e-mail, it's perfectly open, always has been - if you want to prosecute let's do it.

Any lawyers out there wanna do some pro bono - I'll supply the beers!

RC - I hope you reconsider - fight back. the oil situation looks like it is just getting going - your expertise ***IS NEEDED***.

Best,

Andy

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 22, 2000.

RC, I am so sorry nothing could be done to stop the trolls.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), January 22, 2000.

R.C.,

I'm so sorry that this has happened to you. Is there any way that you'll reconsider and stay with us?

I'm not sure what your experience was (I just skimmed your post), but if it's anything like some of the vicious posters I've seen recently, please know this: That to the extent that they come on mainly with personal attacks, you shouldn't treat the posts as if there were a "mind" behind them. Look at it as if the trolls were simply parrots spewing out random utterances.

I know that this doesn't speak to the e-mail destructiveness you've experienced; I'm not sure what you can do there.

But I have truly valued your posts, and I'll miss you very much.

Take care, R.C.

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 22, 2000.

The Key to where 18 refers is in verse four...."Come out or her, my people" Recal Lot. Look for a megalopolis on an ocean coast with hundreds of thousands of Orthodox and Hassidic Jewish citizens. There is the Babylon. Something or someone gets them out before the destruction. Hope this helps your study. Sincerely Tom

-- Tom (Tom Format @ aol.com), January 22, 2000.

It's 6am and wouldn't you know it that self-same troll who was hounding and slandering both myself and RC yesterday on the "Oh my goodness" thread (Yesterday LMAO, today a similar name) - is at it again - at 6am - and quite proud of him/herself.

Sysops can you please supply RC and myself with the ISP as I want to prosecute.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 22, 2000.

"The power to ignore is the power to continue."

RC, read and re-read the quote.

Continue! Do not give your assailants pleasure or profit.

We respect your intellect and great contributions. Please reconsider. We want you here, where you belong.

IGNORE those who wish to ensnare. Truth must continue.

Please.

-- Joseph Almond (sa2000@webtv.net), January 22, 2000.

RC, you've been victimized by classic trollism -- ignore the facts in favor of the accusations. They don't CARE if they're wrong -- the goal is to divert attention from the real topic by making wildly off-topic and ad hominem attacks. It's the old lawyer's ploy: when you can't argue with the facts, you attack the person behind them. You have my sympathy, thanks, and best wishes. I would urge you to reconsider your decision to leave the board.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), January 22, 2000.

RC, you've been victimized by the worst sort of trollism, the ad hominem attack. When you can't argue the facts, you attack the person behnd them, old lawyer's trick. The trolls don't CARE that they're wrong: it's merely making the accusations that count. Then they can sit back and watch the totally OT debate over fringe issues while diverting attention away from the much more relevant -- and more disturbing, from the trolls' POV -- issues that you raise. I would urge you not to let them win.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), January 22, 2000.

RC.....The Forum both needs and wants your input. Seems you were more right than wrong concerning many y2k issues (something most of us can't claim. May I suggest you change your real e-mail address, and then post here anom. (fake id). That will keep the brainless trolls off your case and still provide a service to this group of attentive listeners. It is a shame other experts who are seeing and hearing of problems in other areas are not posting. Please consider........Thanks for your great service to this forum.

-- gomer (gnomer@dot.com), January 22, 2000.

Yes, RC...don't let them win!! Please do take a vacation, as Mumsie suggests, from the potty mouths and vandals; then come back to us!!!

-- jeanne (jeanne@hurry.now), January 22, 2000.

Please, RC, don't quit just yet. Truth will out.

-- justme (justme@myhouse.com), January 22, 2000.

As you obviously already know, life's journey seeking 'the truth' (wherever it may lead you) is a long, long rough trail.

You'll never get respect from those who fear the seeking. And you'll never get sorrows from those who understand.

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), January 22, 2000.

R.C. - I can't improve upon the arguments of others who have already posted responses in this thread asking you to reconsider. I will just say that my wife and I scan this forum daily, mainly looking to see if R.C. has posted anything since the last time we were here. I know that citing Nixon's appeal to a "silent majority" is somewhat overdone, but it applies here. We are out here and have appreciated your contribution and hope you can find a way to continue. As Jesus, who, "when they hurled their insults at them, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats; instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly" (1 Peter 2:23).

-- Mark Hettler (mark_hettler@hotmail.com), January 22, 2000.

R.C.-----I second Mumsie's post exactly. It's so sad to see our regulars especially when they are interesting, thought provokers drop off, once by one. Please come back after you cool down. It's a tragedy that a few rotten apples have to spoil it for the rest of us!

-- Jo Ann (MaJo@Michiana.com), January 22, 2000.

Hey RC!

I am actually interested in reading more about your ideas on "mystery Babalon." I have given some thought to this myself and I find your evidence quite interesting. The heck with y2k! Where can I find some more info. on your research?

My email is real.

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), January 22, 2000.

RC, I understand your frustrations with trollish aka RUDE behavior. I rarely post or lurk here because too many people are rude. I prefer Michael Hyatt's forum. His administrators do not tolerate nasty posters.

-- civilty (manners@costnothing.com), January 22, 2000.

RC...Don't go! I've only been lurking here a few weeks but have learned so much and your posts are very important to me. I'm still too clueless to contribute anything worthwhile but I want you to know I'm here and that I count on you.

It took long enough to find this site, if you go now It'll be a step backwards for those like myself as well as those here who are knowledgable enough to understand at first glance what you say.

I am a closet doomer because not a single soul I know prepped or ever had a concern about y2k. However y2k is not my only concern...solar flares, spirituality, truth, weather, ufo, the market, Gov't agendas etc loom large and are, I believe, all somehow connected.

Please stay, this seeker values you.

Eating Crow in NH

-- EatingCrow (suzan@monad.net), January 22, 2000.

RC.........what I can I possibly say. When I find the time to drop into the forum, I scan the postings for a few excellent posters and you my friend are at the top of the list. I thank you for the informative, timely, and relevant information your posts are so valued for. I'll never forget the wild "scrolling" night at Boks and getting you to the "other place" ;-)

In all honesty I selfishly want you to stay.

My addy is real, please send me information on where you might be. I am also very intriqued by your research. In all the time I have been reading/posting to your threads I never knew about your study(kewl).

To the Trolls: Get A Life before its Too Late

-- This is not a dress rehersal (karlacalif@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

RC, I read all your posts. I never read idiot posts. Ergo your influence drastically outweighs theirs, even when they're spamming. My present notion is that no matter where you go, there will be a doofus cadre nearby...this is just the way life is. Can't escape 'em, gotta ignore 'em.

In gratitude for your terrific work,

-- silver ion (ag3@interlog.com), January 22, 2000.

Your email may have been real, but you did not reveal your name, occupation, or any verifying information whatsoever. Also it turns out you are a flying saucer nutcase. No surprise you turned out to be wrong. How do we know you weren't trying to deliberately mislead us?

Flying saucers, anyone?

Anonymous posters simply cannot be trusted. That's all there is to it. Maybe North and Yourdon and the others were wrong, but they were truthfully wrong, under their own names, therefore, the are still worthy of respect. You are not because you will not be truthful about your identity.

Repeat: Anonymous posters CANNOT BE TRUSTED !

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), January 22, 2000.

Ditto. I agree; don't leave! Your input has been valuable to all of us. If you must leave, godspeed.

-- judy (wednesdayschild@hotmail.com), January 22, 2000.

If you go you let the trolls win - if they win - we all lose....don't go, find a way to continue and don't take it personally. I have been accused of having weird ideas because I don't fit the religious mainstream, but those who criticize have not investigated what I think and I commiserate with you....but it's their loss. Stay here, or let us know where you post and we will check in.

-- laurane (familyties@rttinc.com), January 22, 2000.

RC:

Enjoyed your 'oil' posts all along, even tho I don't have enough expertise in the industry to have felt 100% confident of your genuinity and claims. (The way oil is going at present may in fact prove you mostly, or fully, right.)

But I had no idea of your work in the area of eshatology. What a wonderful post you made to start this thread! Now I admire and respect you immensely.

Yes you've been mugged and brutalized by the internet version of the KKK. These are the kind who don't have the courage to be out front criminals. All of us who have taken stands, especially unequivocal and strong ones, have been battered by the trolls. Interestingly also by trolls who on the Y2K issues appeared to be doomers rather than pollies. (One of my claims to fame was to be called a "Nazi butcher doctor experimenting with innocent victims" -- an approximate quote -- for recommending properly made colloidal silver as an anti- infective in the absence of available conventional prescription antibiotics.)

As far as posting here on TB2K I will join the chorus: keep posting important things when the urge moves you --- realizing that the trolls will descend on them, but the sane readers will treasure them.

Re your website atrocity, that's more serious. It would be GREAT if you and Andy could get some justice out of it all with a law suit, altho as my lawyer cousin once said to me, "Bill, once you hire a lawyer you've already lost!" It still would be worth looking into.

In summary, now that we know more about your other research we love you even more,

God Bless,

Bill

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), January 22, 2000.

RC, you and so many others are giving in and giving these long good bye speeches.....sure the demons on this board make hideous pointless attacks--but so what? do you really need anyone's approval to speak what you know or believe to be true? especially when you have experience in areas, they may have no knowledge at all in, or dare to think and analyze and draw conclusions that may actually lead to new knowledge!! for every evil troll on this board--there are probably 10 more nice folks that want to intelligently discuss things plus 10 more that are quietly reading and making choices based on what they read.

good grief--some of the most incredible ideas of humanity came from people that were good analysts and sometimes made observations or expressed ideas that were so radical, they were outcasted or murdered for it--yet found to be right later. so many people in our present society have the attention span of a two year old and are thrilled as long as they "fit in" and are well fed and entertained. for whatever reason, in this current day (especially with the elites/current administration), original ideas or thinking are no longer valued.

some people on this board are so entrenched in their narrow minded, ostrich-with-his-head-in-the-sand-approach-to-thinking. and what they want is to drive all the more reasonable folks out so that all that gets posted on this board is their "politically correct" view.

that is exactly what political correctness wants to do--drive out the truth or opposing opinion so that anyone who is willing to speak against what is currently popular, safe, and "acceptable" dares not speak (or gets labeled as a conspiracy theorist). but if no one speaks truth or wisdom, no one can hear truth or wisdom!! so then where are those 20 nice folks who could use the wisdom and experienced input?

am i to understand your web site was hacked? i am sorry about that. and i am afraid security is going to be such an issue in the future for anyone who dares have radical ideas, because those who need to maintain the "status quo" feel that they can wreak havoc and devastation when they don't like what they see. AND OF COURSE, THESE ARE THE TRUE HATE CRIMES!!! that is one reason why i hesitate to use bumper stickers.

what i want to know is why these demon people who are so vehement in their rhetoric and actions feel that they need to attack and destroy those with whom they disagree?

is it because they are so insecure in their own self that they can't bear to have anyone not validate their ideas?

are they so afraid that things will GO WRONG AS PREDICTED AND THEY WILL BE OPENLY WRONG?

do they feel that they are so brilliant (and of course, can not be wrong) that they need to SCREAM SO LOUDLY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MASSES OF THE WORLD HEAR ONLY THEM (because they have the only truth there is?)

i say THEY need to get a good psychologist or counselor. and you, RC-- don't you dare give up. keep it coming!!!!!

-- tt (cuddluppy@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

RC and others:

The goal of the more systematic trolls seems to be to silence this board. If this is the case, then they will especially target anyone who is very effective here.

Like the martyrs, you should count yourself blessed if you've been wounded serving Truth and Light.

If we flee to protect ourselves, they've won.

If we continue in dignity, they only shame themselves and that for which they stand.

The decision is ours, not theirs.

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 22, 2000.

RC and others:

Did you think that being a fighter for Truth and Light would always be easy?

Do you know what the Greek term for a 'Witness' is?

Why do you think that those who come forth to speak the Truth are called 'martyrs'?

If the strength of our convictions runs no deeper than our first real wounding, then we're not much of a Witness.

You've been an ikon to a lot of people, RC. Turn your wound into God's glory by staying and fighting.

To submit to the Power of God is wisdom. To submit to the violent of this world is defeat. Who will you honor more?

-- tim phronesia (phronesia@webtv.net), January 22, 2000.

RC,

I guess I must have missed your Theological posts...I thought you were tangentially involved in the Oil industry. I found your posts to be very informative.

RC, if the mailcity address is real, I'd like to send you just a brief note soon.

And, I do hope you will reconsider...

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It ALL went away 22 days ago .com), January 22, 2000.

--Good Luck! Being a researcher, especially in a conspiracy bent, is never easy. Expect to keep getting blasted. The "blasters" are usually just small minds, who can tear down, but not create on their own, no matter how much they promote their own supposed intellectual superiority or membership in "densa". I never saw anything whatsoever wrong with your posts, and I appreciated the time and effort that went into them. And you did do a good job in separating your various web work. Very similar to GN, who never pushed his theological views on his y2k site.

The trolls here can be classed as disruptive vandal/hackers. Their typed actions speak for what sort of people they are. It's quite possible to have polite debate, even heated debate, without resorting to malicious code attacks, character assassination, denial of service attacks, etc, but "they" just "don't get it". DGI really applies to them.

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), January 22, 2000.

Andy & RC,

The ISP is posted on the thread "outing" RC. QUITE sure it's the DeBunker crowd. They can always be counted on to "crow" about their actions on their site.

Any assistance the Sysops can provide, is offered.

Don't let the trolls get you down RC. Take a much needed refresher break, and return. All people are entitled to their Y2K assessments and opinions and it's up to the rest of us, with added research and insight to decide what's important, and what's not.

A certain group of trolls is deleted on sight because they engaged in spamming and DOS attacks late last year. (i.e. the Red group). Other's didn't cross that line, and are posting here. Flaming is snipped.

What do you suggest the Sysops do? I suggest you stand tall, and post your own truth.

Let the rest decide if it has validity. Or not.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 22, 2000.

R.C.

Has it occurred to you that this may be more than "just" trollish behaviour? Without sounding paranoid, it occurs to me that you have been one of the most (if not the most) correct and accurate in your view of the potential for y2k to wreak havoc on the oil production/delivery system, and that you might be a little too close in your assessment of things yet to come. In light of the somewhat comical excuses presented by TPTB, the potential for the real story to be exposed is perhaps of concern to many who would much rather see the sheeple succumb to the talking heads.

So perhaps there's a measurable chance that this is more than just boorish and trollish behaviour. Any thoughts?

jonny.

PS. I too have anticipated your posts, frequently doing the F thing to 'find' a post from R.C. If nothing else, you certainly have the support of the vast majority of the regulars and lurkers on this forum. Does that mean anything to you? Would you reconsider?

-- jonny (jonnyb@good.com), January 22, 2000.

Is this correct: There are many people who appricate your posts. There are a few a**h***s who don't. So you will punish those who appricate your posts and reward those that don't appricate your posts by not posting. I will miss your presence. I have the same desire as Jose, for more info and my e-mail is real. Thank you and, again, I will miss you.

-- Mr. Pinochle (pinochledd@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

R.C., please don't go. Your reasonings from the bible are utterly no different than that which has been widely sung by the late Reggae superstar Robert "Bob" Nesta Marley. As a descendant of Ethiopian Coptic Christians, taken from East Africa by the Crown to the island of Jamaica to toil as their slaves, he carried a remnant of their teachings passed down orally from generation to generation. As most Jamaicans all know Ras Tafari, was the son of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. The REST of the world has known for 25 years that America is Babylon. It is only here that those who dare speak the truth are despised, reviled and silenced. Death to all oppressors! SPEAK your truth. We are still here to witness. Got alot I could say about Tom Jefferson too. You're right about his admiring freemasonry. He also preferred hemp to brandy or cigars in the drawing room post- dinner discussions of his day! Now to all the trolls, begone ye crazy damn baldheads as Bob Marley says. Go buy his greatest hits CD and get a life. Leave R.C. alone. And Andy, those were native Arawak (sp)_ who met with Columbus. Long before ENGLAND brought Africans to that lovely island. "CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS WAS A DAMN BLASTED LIAR" as Bob Marley sang. His crews raped the women and gave them syph and brought rats onboard ship from the civilized European world. Bim fickinacki! America is Ephraim of England's Manasseh and was "TAUGHT TO FORGET." The better that so many nations could learn to tolerate each other. Trollfolk, read Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown and Before the Mayflower by Lerone Bennet. THEN come back and argue with us.

-- Sally Hemmings (286yrsinUSA@slavery.com), January 22, 2000.

To Forest

..........I have an idea..why don't you just go away.....we'll take R.C. any day.

-- forrest-y-r-an-ass (idiot@dot.com), January 22, 2000.

Time is a precious commodity and I know you have given to us unstintingly your time and effort. It is very much appreciated.

You are one whose posts are always worth reading. Add me to the list. My e-mail is real. Mike Lang.

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), January 22, 2000.

very interesting info sally hemmings. hmmmmmmmm.......never heard some of it before. i knew TJ was not a saint (and just so we are clear--he was also one of the few founding fathers who did not profess to being a christian either--lest he be labeled that way)

jonny, you raise a very interesting point. we do need to watch the "organized" efforts that would seek to squelch the free marketing of ideas.

so RC, can you stay?

maybe we could find a better way to deal with TROLLS --

i know when a child misbehaves you don't reward the misbehavior with attention? (they don't care whether they get bad attention or good attention--as long as they get attention/crisis.) maybe we could (other than banning the out and out evil posts that are attacks) simply find a way to not respond to or ignore the trolls?

just a thought. it is a shame to take one of the few boards that actually aggregates these type of incident reports and see it disband because of this type of activity.

-- tt (cuddluppy@aol.com), January 22, 2000.

RC, come back under another name if you wish. These attacks have been breathtakingly vile.

This is a good time to remind lurkers who might want to post that there are places where it is wise to use a pseudonym. Most of my Internet presence elsewhere is done under my real name, and I believe in taking responsibility for the views I post. I'm a strong supporter of not hiding behind handles. But in this case, I prefer that my non-Y2k interests not muddy the waters, and thus keep them quite separate.

-- Firemouse (firemouse@fcmail.com), January 22, 2000.

Hello, RC:

I'm somewhat flabbergasted that this cyberspace turmoil has caused you so much hurt. You and I and others know that humans are basically evil beings, born with sinful rebellion. There is a way out of this, and the way is JESUS CHRIST.

I recall from your last private email to me that if I had any questions regarding your book AMERICA, THE BABYLON, I should ask you.

Well, I was quite amazed and astounded as I read your book, truly wondering about certain Biblical verses and interpretations. However, I didn't have any questions for you, only simple opinions based upon my ignorance.

Nonetheless, I think now I have a question which I hope you will answer on this forum for all the doubters:

DO YOU BELIEVE IT IS ENTIRELY PROBABLE REGARDING THE FORTHCOMING JUDGMENT UPON AMERICA, THE BABYLON, THAT GOD WILL NOT RESORT TO SENDING SUPERIOR ANGELIC FORCES BUT INSTEAD USE THE RUSSIANS AND CHINESE TO WAGE NUCLEAR WARFARE AGAINST OUR COUNTRY?

Dimitru Duduman and others had visions that America would be judged within one hour (Revelation Chapter 18) by a surprise attack from nuclear missiles launched by the Russian submarines. Vladimir Putin has made alliances with the Communist Party. However, there is another powerful Russian who is not in the news. His name is Alexander Lebed, consigned to governing Siberia because Boris fired him after having achieved a real peace in the Chechen nation, where the Russian troops withdrew. Of course, Boris could not tolerate Alexander's popularity, so he fired him and consigned him to governing Siberia. Still, Alexander Lebed is a powerful man, WHO DOES NOT DRINK ALCOHOL. I believe he will gain much more power in the months ahead.

Of course, the Holy Creator can do whatever He chooses. I still think He will judge America with humans much as He did judging Israel with neighboring nations. He used the prophets to warn Israel, but they did not listen because of their hardened hearts, and so He sent forth the Gentiles against them. I believe the same thing will happen to America. There have been Christians such as David Wilkerson and David Meyer who have warned of impending judgment. Few listen. If there are any angelic invasions to happen, it won't be until the absolute last seconds before His triumphal return.

Please respond here or privately if you wish. I've NEVER used a false email address, so that's the way it is, 22JAN00, days before the Crash of the Millennium.

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), January 22, 2000.

PA Engineer -

Thanks - I used to work in Kingdom myself, worst and best 3 years of my life, if you know what I mean :o)

Couple of points...

1. Two i's in Shiite :o) ROTFLMAO!!!

2. This is the latest skinny from Dog Gone on another thread [PagingDog Gone...]

[snip]

The ports in Saudi Arabia are having severe technology problems. The one at Yanbu is basically toast. The one at Jeddah is "almost" fully operational. That's the good news. The bad news is that telephones are not working well at all. Maybe 30% efficiency on wireline and 50% on cellular. At this point the situation is deteriorating. Bin- Laden operatives are trying to cause trouble by stirring up passions. The foreign workers are staging a work slowdown to seek improved conditions (the Saudis don't like to do the manual work themselves). The phones are causing further complications in the whole export process.

Overall, things do NOT look good, and may deteriorate next month to the point where being a Westerner there might be a bad thing.

The local press is echoing the US line that there are no problems at all.

[end snip]

This tends to support Harry Schultze's inside information I posted yesterday...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 23, 2000.