Oh My Goodness! THIS is your "Oil" Expert?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread |
http://www.tlc.net/rac/main.htmAngelic Invasion Forces?
Sun Cruisers?
Statue of Liberty is a replica of the Babylonian goddes Ishtar?
Washington and Jefferson were part of a Masonic Conspiracy?
Somebody stop me here. THIS is your EXPERT?
To steal a quote:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
-- LMAO (too@funny.here), January 20, 2000
*duly visits**quietly boggles*
Well then. So much for remembering the presumption that if he comes he'll come like a thief in the night.
-- Ned Raggett (ned@kuci.org), January 20, 2000.
LMAO - thanks for the link to those unusual photos. BTW what's your point? Do you or don't you believe in Angels? If not, why not? Also, I didn't see anything on that site about OIL. So, what's your point?Your post should begin with OT (Off Topic). Thanks and have a wonderful day.
-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), January 20, 2000.
Hey, thanks for the link "too"... some very interesting stuff there! Does nothing to destroy the truth in the statements that he's made about oil - truth it truth, no matter who delivers the message...
-- John Cauthen (johnr@cetlink.net), January 20, 2000.
RC knows more about the oil industry than pretty much anyone here. His predictions so far have been right on target. "LMAO" is probably just some industry shill trying to deflect attention away from the serious problems going on. A lot of the stuff on his website makes sense in any case. I don't see the problem.
-- (hal@gostek.org), January 20, 2000.
Still do not see any connection between RC and R. A. Coombes who claims copyrights on the site. Have to do a better search, LMAO.
-- Brooklyn (MSIS@cyberdude.com), January 20, 2000.
I just took a look at the website in question. This is a shining example of being too quick to take contributors to this forum at face value. While this individual has EVERY right to his beliefs, it does nothing to help credibility by being linked to such extremist material. IF, IF, IF this is RAC, one in the same, the value of his posts just hit the same low water mark as used wallpaper.Sorry, but in this world, the source needs to be as credible as the material.
-- Irving (irvingf@myremarq.com), January 20, 2000.
"BOTTOM LINE on Oil Wells: Expect a near complete stoppage in crude oil pumping on Jan 1, 2000. "What was the target?
======================================================================
Wrongo dude and you know it.
RC never made firm predictions - he made best guesses, percentage- wise, based on intelligent analysis.
Now we know you are a shill, or CPR, or a disinfo. agent.
What you don't know is that the folks on this forum are *very* sophisticated and can see through wankers like you.
Discuss the facts.
Oil - highest in 10 years.
just announced a 4% shortfall in oil - despite y2k stockpiles.
Airlines have jsut added a $20 surcharge due to rising fuel costs.
venezuela declares force majeure.
Oh yeah, you come along and try and discredit the one person who's called it right so far.
Ho ho ho - ya gotta try better than that shill-boy.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 20, 2000.
Answer my points mystery-mother, oil up again today... I wonder why?And what's all the piss taking over Angels?
Sorry - you are nothing but a ***coward***.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 20, 2000.
LMAO:Can't say you're wrong. BTW How *did* you run into RC's site?
-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 20, 2000.
At least you have the decency to admit you are a coward.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 20, 2000.
Do a search on "racambab@mailcity.com" from:http://www.go.com/?sv=IS
-- LMAO (too@funny.here), January 20, 2000.
More mindless personal attacks from LMAO. This thread should just be deleted.
-- (hal@gostek.org), January 20, 2000.
LMAO:Agreed. RC may be still right, but the probabilty just went down a notch (lets say a few) IMHO.
In the anonmyous internet game, credibility is everything. Credibility can only be assesed by providing facts that can be verified, or by understand where you stand and the assessor's perspective on your stand. We didn't know where RC stands on things until now. So now people can assess for themselves how much or little faith they'd like to put in him.
-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 20, 2000.
Give me a break. Do you ask your doctor what religion he is before you let him take your blood? "Ah, no, I don't agree with your beliefs, so I won't let you give me a prescription." Damn fools.
-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), January 20, 2000.
Mara:Give *me* a break.
In case you can't read, I said credibility can be provided two ways. My doctor can believe anything he wants, but he provides me facts I can verify (the other way I suggested): namely I can verify that he has been approved by the medical boards to take my blood when he says he has been approved.
Illiterate fools.
-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 20, 2000.
I will say one thing about RC -- he started and added to many stimulating philosophical conversations on this forum in the past. And he did that without bringing up his religious beliefs.The man is a thinker.
-- Here (since@oct.1998), January 20, 2000.
Well, oil prices did just hit a nine-year high. RC may have been 'right' and it's a matter of degree. Maybe not.Only time will tell.
In the meantime, I visit this forum to get a second opinion on the news I see in the mass media. Why are you here, LMAO?
-- Up (to@the.minute), January 20, 2000.
Lmao, I'm still more disturbed by RC's prior work on behalf of Reagan & Limbaugh!, and I already knew about that. And what's your take on the SOHO Lasco satellite photos?
-- number six (iam_not_a_number@hotmail.com), January 20, 2000.
LMAO is a heckler -- and loves it.
-- (stop@thread.noise), January 20, 2000.
SCUMBAG POLLY'S! yOU should get down on your knees and kiss RC's feet! He's done a huge serfvice to us allwho were concerned about our families, our communities, ourneighbors. Go back and fester at Der Boonkah. Go away. Shoo! Shoo!
-- Polly Buster (sick@of.pollies!), January 20, 2000.
Yep! Thats my real name...and e-mail. I am five miles from Corpus. Was when the Army did the Y2K "attack" exercise.That wasn,t &h!+ compared to the one they did in Kingsville just before. Gave the local police there two hours notice and then did a full scale assault,,,,complete with the blowing up of a large building.
The citizens of Kingsville had NO warning. Scared the hell out of them. And me to!
The uproar was so strong that Corpus got warning....(i think it was intended that way)
Anyhow,it's what made me a believer.
-- james stallings (jimsta1386@yahoo.com), January 20, 2000.
Oh! Gas is up .20 here from four days ago.now back to sleep jim
-- james stallings (jimsta1386@yahoo.com), January 20, 2000.
Well,,,one more thing. IT WASN"T TO FUNNY HERE!jim
-- james stallings (jimsta1386@yahoo.com), January 20, 2000.
LMAO <==> CPRThis guy has no life whatsoever, and is on his 258th transparent incarnation here. He's whooping it up at DeBungHole.
Come 2010, he'll still be here. Pathetic cretins simply seem to be drawn to this site (at both extremes), and CPR is the most pathetic of them all. Why does everyone keep feeding this guy?
-- get a job already (cpr@isan.ass), January 20, 2000.
LMAO: Pull the stick out of your arse, you'll feel better.
-- Harbor Guy (HarborGuy@OnThe.Waterfront), January 20, 2000.
LMAO,Hey boy... why don't you come out from behind your hiding place and let us take a close look at your beliefs, hobbies, associations, etc..?
RC didn't hide behind a wall calling other people idiots and doomers, and I don't recall any of his post pushing his other OT interests on the board...
If your such an example of sanity, reason and logic, then why are you hiding behind LMAO?
You want to play character assasin, then put your ass in the open, or shut the fuck up coward!
-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), January 20, 2000.
Carl>>RC didn't hide behind a wall calling other people idiots and doomers<<
Au contraire - RC has freely tossed about abusive names for his opponents in debate. "Idiot" "dolt" etc. He recently stooped to a new low when he compared those who question the existence of Y2K embedded problems to those who denied the Holocaust actually happened.
-- Johnny Canuck (j_canuck@hotmail.com), January 20, 2000.
Johnny;Well, there really are a lot of idiots and dolts around here, and I think that was actually very tactful on RC's part restraining himself to those rather benign explicatives...
I never saw RC conduct a sustained attack on someone who posed an opposite opnion such as the shadowy LMAO has against him...
Not that I am saying I agree with, or disagree with, any post made by RC... at least he contributed something to the intellectual debate here regarding the possibilities...
This sustained attack by LMAO against RC and his character, and in LMAO's opinion, his crediblity, is outside true debate, and nothing more than pure "if you can't kill the message, attack the messanger.."
If you can't win the arguement with facts, then don't denigrate yourself by slandering the opposition...
-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), January 21, 2000.
P.S Johnny...RC left a real email for those people to respond to if they were too embarassed to have their responses reviewed by everyone else here...
-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), January 21, 2000.
In other words Johnny;He didn't "hide behind a wall"... he may have called a few people idiots and dolts, but he didn't do it incognito...
Comprehend the difference?
-- Carl (clilly@goentre.com), January 21, 2000.
My "oil expert" was the Senate's Y2K committee. This is from the 100 Day Report released in September of 1999:
http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001Rwk[snip]
Heightened concern exists with regard to organizations and industries that project readiness dates in the last quarter of 1999. For example, approximately 500 of the 8,000 oil and gas companies and 30 of the 103 nuclear power plants project completion dates after September 30, 1999. Original completion dates were planned in the first quarter to allow plenty of time to complete end to end testing and to address unexpected anomalies. However, these projected completion dates continue to be deferred. Organizations with late completion dates are not leaving sufficient time to address unexpected problems, which also heightens the importance of adequate contingency planning.
[snip]
The international Y2K picture is more disturbing. The Y2K preparations in many countries of economic and strategic importance to the U. S. are inadequate. Of greatest concern are Russia, China, Italy, and several oil producing countries. The Y2K problem has highlighted the economic interdependence of nations. A significant potential exists for the Y2K induced problems of other nations to wash up on our shores whether in the form of recession, lost jobs, or requests for international assistance.
[snip]
Oil and gas companies have made notable advances since the Committee's last report, but continued progress remains essential. Nearly 500 companies do not plan to complete repairs until late 1999, which makes disruption possible for some domestic oil and gas billing, production, transportation, and distribution. In addition, the likelihood of disruption in oil imports is high due to the lack of preparedness in key oil producing countries. Disruptions could ultimately affect gas prices and availability.
[snip]
The heavily regulated insurance, investment services, and banking industries are farthest ahead in their efforts; healthcare, oil, education, agriculture, farming, food processing, and the construction industries are lagging behind.
[snip]
The Committee is greatly concerned about the international Y2K picture. Several countries of strategic and economic importance to the U. S. are severely behind in Y2K remediation efforts. Regions of the world of most concern to the Committee are Eastern Europe, Africa, and parts of Asia and South America. When considering strategic and economic factors, and the status of Y2K remediation efforts within specific countries, the Committee's greatest concerns lie with China, Russia, Italy, and several of the countries from which the U. S. imports oil.
[snip]
I told a friend who had to move in November because his landlord was more than doubling the rent that he should move as close as possible to where he works. He did move close to work and doesn't regret it. The Senate may have over-estimated the oil threat, but I think that was good advice to my friend based on about as reliable a source as you could get.
At my house we checked the tires on two older bicycles in the basement.
-- Linkmeister (link@librarian.edu), January 21, 2000.
Y'know to go back to the original post, the POLLY "expert" is an ACKNOWLEDGED REAL ESTATE AGENT/DEVELOPER!!!WHOOOOWEEEE!
Night train
-- jes an ol footballer tryin' not ta fall over laughin' (nighttr@in.lane), January 21, 2000.
The stuff about the Statue of Liberty and the Masons is true! Check into it. I believe!
-- jt (123456789@10.com), January 21, 2000.
Sysops,now I am PO'd.Illiterate fools.
-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 20, 2000.
Perhaps I misunderstood, read wrong, or missed something, and yes, I slept on it, and this thread still exists this morning.
Interested Spectator is allowed to call Mara an "Illiterate fool", unless, as I am hoping, I misunderstood? Now understand, Mara is of the personality, she is perfectly capable of defending her position with the best of 'em, but am I the only "regular" upset enough to point this out?
Besides the fact that this entire thread is a troll free-run at degrading beliefs, (off topic) about the poster here going by the name of R.C., and it is allowed to stand?
This is just too much. I re-question my association with this forum entirely, even if just as a lurker.
Why are we being subjected to this nonsense? Why has this been left too stand as a sideshow attraction for polly/trolls bored with taking pot-shots at doomers on threads about news?
None of this has changed my opinion of the poster R.C. in the least. It has, however, disappointed me a great deal to see that this personal harming of individuals of long standing on this forum...who have spent timeless hours providing data and information whether they where right or wrongAT THE REQUEST of the people on this forum is acceptable forum topic.
Before any of us use the word "community" on this forum again, we had best rethink our definition of community.
Loyalty has always been a strong suit of mine. I don't have to agree or even particularly care for a person I offer allegence with, But this is uncalled for.
IMHO, the lighter the use of the delete key, the smaller the audience, perhaps one of us at a time, but the time spent to "wade through the muck here" becomes greater and greater.
If the intent is to ride shotgun over a handfull of polly/trolls and those doomers left who can stomach this stuff then that is where we are headed fast. They can spend all day agruing and the sysops can spend all day deleting. But just how many people will there be left reading?
-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), January 21, 2000.
LMAO, oh yes, I see the light now! How could I have been so stupid? How could I have ever read the above information and not drawn my own conclusions? I guess that is why you feel the need to be so abrasive, to make sure I will agree with you.Yes, and surely if I can just over look your lack of class and general rudness, why Mr/Ms LMAO I bet you have something sooo valuable to teach me. And too think, after all this time I have been skippin' right over all of your posts (with the above being a very good representation of your contributions).
Why Mara and I both need to rethink this illiterate fool stuff. We just might want to take you serious some day. But, before we do pay you any mind, there are a couple of things we would like to ask you about your personal life and beliefs....surely you won't mind will you? Just what does a troll do on his day off?
Cause if the only "side" you choose to show, is the one you present here, R.C. got you outclassed hands down.
-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), January 21, 2000.
Hi, Lilly.It's good to see you haven't disappeared.
I skimmed this thread yesterday, Lilly, when Mara's response was the last. I didn't have time to respond at that time, but if I had, I would have explained to Mara that Mr. Coombes' religious beliefs were NOT the issue....well, at least not the ENTIRE issue. I would have no qualms with a Christian doctor treating any disease. I WOULD, however, have problems with a doctor treating my disease if that doctor expressed beliefs that the treatment would be useless anyway because other events would result in my destruction DESPITE the treatment. It's unfortunate that Mara felt the need to use damn fools in HER post, as well as unfortunate that another poster responded in kind.
Back to Mr. Coombes, however, Lilly, he entered this forum on June 15, as indicated above in the Reference to Mr. Coombes' Prediction
He's never worked in the oil industry, yet indicated that his "contacts" had said....etc. I worked for a few oil companies for 20 years, Lilly, including a 7-year stint at a refinery, and have several friends still working in the industry. I'm not a Petroleum Engineer, as you know, but I still keep in touch with several folks who are, and I'm familiar with refinery operations just from having worked at one for seven years. Even folks in systems' programming have the people from outside in their office each week due to one thing or another, and we get to know and even like the people. Since there's not a refinery in every town, we learn that the guy working the catcracker has a wife who works in accounting down the hall. When the fire alarms go off, it's not just the guy outside that's in danger. The entire refinery is in danger....even those of us working in the offices onsite. The guy's family is in danger, and the TOWN is certainly in economic danger, because refinery towns REVOLVE around the hamburgers purchased by the crews at lunchtime, not to mention that most of the workers LIVE in that town as well. The hat gets passed regularly for the families of workers who have died in fires or explosions. [Sorry to have gone so far off topic.]
Back to Mr. Coombes, he entered this forum quite unwilling to give specifics, yet was more willing to offer information Here
He even set up his own discussion forum here although it seems he got no responses.
Refining is NOT a pleasant process, Lilly...never HAS been. Folks get VERY dirty, they get burned, and they get blown up. For some folks it's all they know, and for some towns, it's all they HAVE. The people I know at refineries are telling me that they still have jobs and the refineries are still functioning. They got their Y2k work done and fear more that mergers will result in job loss than any glitch in the equipment. My "sources" tell one thing and Mr. Coombes' "sources" tell another. Folks like to say "How many MORE are in this situation?" and extrapolate that an entire industry is in as fine/or as poor shape as the one we know. NEITHER can extrapolate to the industry as a whole, nor SHOULD they.
In conclusion, Lilly, I DO want to see the credentials of someone stating this and that regarding the oil industry. If that person has written a book stating that the end is coming despite Y2k, I want to know. If that person thinks that Y2k was perhaps prophesized in David, I want to know.
I can understand your feelings on HOW Mr. Coombes was revealed in this thread, and I share them. I would have done it differently had I had the information at the time, but I didn't.
-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.com), January 21, 2000.
Sorry for the loss of ending HTML tag. [I HATE it when that happens.] It seems that one COULD get the link, however, despite the rest of the text being included in the darn thing.I've had a minute to review your response to LMAO, however, Lilly, and would encourage you to keep your calm. As I said previously, had Mara not opened up the discussion to damn fools, the thread may have moved in another direction. I like Mara also, but if she chose to begin the name-calling, I'll leave her to suffer the ramifications.
-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.com), January 21, 2000.
(final post of the day LMAO, hate to see you choke on your cherios while laughing this hard in the morning)As FactFinder brought up, he/she and R.C. debated the oil topic on this forum. I did read both presentations very carefully, and appreciated both. (Thanks, FactFinder). I would no more approve of seeing FactFinders personal life/beliefs paraded around here in this manner, than I do R.C.'s. Didn't like seeing Hoff's personal life discussed either. Get it?
I hold my standards of what I consider poor taste and underhanded, and you hold yours. Deletion will empty the forum, as will constant trashing, end is the same.
-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), January 21, 2000.
LMAO, it sounds like you have a grudge and too much time on your hands. Enough is enough. Let it go.
-- Debra (deb1234@56.com), January 21, 2000.
(Said would be last post/we posted same time) Anita, thanks... perhaps R.C. himself can give us some answers.(Can you email me, I lost yours, we must be up to #51-2 by now.:-)
-- Lilly (homesteader145@yahoo.com), January 21, 2000.
Well of course R.C. was right, as this definitive list proves...http://nckodokan.com/charts/crude.html
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 21, 2000.
Ditto that Linkmeister.I watched for the Senate reports, myself, and expert testimony as well. Not to mention the 10-Q SEC filings for the oil companys. Love the Y2K worst case scenarios. Naval War College was interesting too.
Lets see... our crow LMAO (too@funny.here) is so confident of his assesments, that he uses *some* of the anonymizers most favored by the DeBunker crowd to post here...
DNS now: 216.34.244.73 maps to ... izar.anonymizer.com
DNS now: 216.34.244.105 maps to ... sirrah.anonymizer.com
Agendas anyone?
DB is lead (overwhelmed) by that noted Y2K expert... the real estate broker and zealot evangelist, cpr.
Humm. Real key credentials, huh?
Thanks DB experts, but I always watch multiple sources, then make up my own mind. Everyones personal choice too. Or not.
Lilly,
CPR and company act like a pack of rabid frothing dogs, who feel if they discredit the stated opinion of one person, they have just researched the whole global oil/Y2K situation. Oh well.
Disconnect Happens.
Plenty to research, watch for and ponder the interconnections. Or not.
Y2K or not, somebodys about to make a tidy profit on rising oil prices. And somebodys going to pay for it.
Whats important? You decide.
Diane
-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 21, 2000.
Geez, you guys! If you're gonna nit-pick like that, why don't you go pick on the the dude at the White House?
-- Tim (pixmo@pixelquest.com), January 21, 2000.
Diane wrote,"Y2K or not, somebodys about to make a tidy profit on rising oil prices. And somebodys going to pay for it. "
Diane is a "BIG PICTURE" person like many here. I have NO idea what the focus of this thread is about other than a great way to deflect and redirect thought to other issues.
Don't get lost in the hate, the spit, the grime on the underbelly of the beast that seeks to confuse.
Y2k or not something is moving in this area and that IS NOW affecting the world economy. It's happening. Infationary pressure IS happening now.
Bonkers continue to attack, attack, attack. Do what you will. But, it wont change this fact one bit.
Oil prices going up now after being at lows for what, a decade? Isn't that a bit of a clue that the world economy is under a bit of pressue? Someone is pulling strings?
Maybe you can buy a clue since the cost of filling up your tank may be out of your budget soon.
We fight wars over oil.
Mike
============================================================
-- Mike (mtdesignX@aol.com), January 21, 2000.
Gas up another 2.5 cents just now, gold up, silver up, bonds up, oh yeah inflation is just 1-2%...$20 on all airline tickets...
OPEC meeting in Libya - looks set to confirm the nut-squeeze...
Bush Sr. in Kuwait now - read what david Ickehas to say about the Bush clan's dealings with Saddam Hussein and big oil money...
What the hell is Bush doing in Kuwait - now - I wonder...
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 21, 2000.
Actually while you have your head up your ass some of us take an interest and know what is going on in the real world.You seem to think its some sort of joke that Bush should start a war over oil, kill a few Americans, ruin the health of xthousand others through GWsyndrome, kill hundredsof thousands of ill-equipped Iraqi soldiers, deploy depleted uranium in the battlezone which is still killing God knows how many people...
And then the coup de grace, doesn't even go to Baghdad to finish the job?
Why - 1. cos we need a bogeyman [raghead naturally]
2. he would have been outed.
I find it quite telling that you would be laughing so much at all this misery - well done, you
are
a
fine
human
being.
You should be proud of yourself.
BUSH AND OIL ============
Richard - it's to do with oil - Mara, do some invetigating on the net on the Bush family/cabal ties with big oil money, specifically he's in bed with our old friend Saddam Hussein... big time, still is too...
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 21, 2000.
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FWIW George Bush and Son
Opening paragraph ......
Researchers looking into circumstances surrounding U.S.involvement in the Persian Gulf War have uncovered some disturbing facts about former President George Bush and his son, presently the Republican presidential front-runner.
-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 21, 2000.
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Bush Sr. has SHITLOADS of money in Kuwait oil, which "came out" in the media when we began the Persian Gulf War. Rumor was at that time that he was risking US soldiers to defend his personal investment; the "jury" never came back on that one...all that came back was that staged interview with the "alledged" nurse saying Iraqi's put babies on the hospital floor. No one could figure out why this nurse didn't just pick up the babies already and put them BACK in the incubators...well, as it turns out, the "nurse" was some Kuwait princess or daughter of big wig "acting" and the writers of her script soley to gain American's support for Bush's actions never thought of that one intsy-wintsy detail...
-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 21, 2000.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
--my point being I peg him for just heading over to check on his investment.
-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 21, 2000.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
Hokie, if memory serves me, the girl turned out to be the daughter of an Iraqi Ambassador. She testified in front of some congressional committee. And we all know there is no finer group than a Congressional Committee.
-- Richard (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), January 21, 2000.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 21, 2000.
George Bush Sr. and Son
Researchers looking into circumstances surrounding U.S. involvement in the Persian Gulf War have uncovered some disturbing facts about former President George Bush and his son, presently the Republican presidential front-runner.
Exclusive to The SPOTLIGHT
By Tom Flocco
Americans may be wondering wheth er Texas Gov. George W. Bushas presidentwould permit foreign cash infusions to influence public opinion (and his own actions) regarding U.S. foreign policy and military action.
During his father's presidency, foreign money played a major role in shaping American public opinion. The younger Bush has political and financial ties to that same foreign money. This is an issue that needs to be raised.
During the Persian Gulf War in 1990-91, the younger Bush had dual roles. He was an advisor to his father, President George Bush, and an oil executive of Harken Energy Corp.
In Harken's proxy statement filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), Harken reported that Bush was the company's second largest non-institutional shareholder. As it turned out, major Republican Party contributors as well as political acquaintances and friends of President Bush also maintained substantial positions at Harken.
Young Bush's dual role is important to note. Just seven months prior to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, Harken ac quired potentially lucrative drilling rights to offshore oil and gas reserves in Bahrain, a small Arab island emirate off the coast of Saudi Arabia and about 200 miles southeast of Kuwait.
While the younger Bush's presidential advisory role may not have had anything to do with the $20 million spent by Kuwait and sources connected to Ba hrain with whom the future Texas governor and presidential aspirant had a business relationship, Americans who care about the fate of their sons and daughters may not want foreign governments to influence the U.S. population regarding war decisions in the future.
Jack O'Dwyer, a 20-year public relations expert, pointed out in the January issue of his publication, the O'Dwyer's PR Services Report, that the Kuwaiti government funded as many as 20 public relations, law and lobby firms in its campaign to mobilize U.S. opinion and force against Iraq's Saddam Hussein. Hill & Knowlton, a public relations firm, lead the charge on behalf of the Kuwaiti cause, O'Dwyer wrote.
Hill & Knowlton's involvement in Ku wait had been reported by O'Dwyer eight years ago. O'Dwyer pointed out that Hill & Knowlton served as the mastermind for the Kuwaiti campaign in the October 1991 issue of O'Dwyer's FARA Report, a publication on the Foreign Agents Registration Act.
According to O'Dwyer, Hill & Knowlton's activities could have been considered the largest foreign-funded publicity operation ever designed to manipulate American public opinion. He said $11.9 million was funneled to Citizens For A Free Kuwait (CFK) by the Kuwaiti government.
In an article in the May-June 1996 issue of the publication, Blazing Tattles, John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton wrote that the FARA should have exposed the use of foreign cash for propaganda purposes to the American people. The Justice Department under President Bush, however, chose not to enforce the FARA.
Nine days after Iraq initiated the Gulf War, the Kuwaiti government contracted Hill & Knowlton to represent CFK. Recent findings indicate that the Bush administration was closely tied to the Kuwaiti plan to manipulate and sway U.S. public opinion toward sending troops to the Gulf.
Arthur E. Rowse also provided solid proof about Hill & Knowlton and its ties to Kuwait in his article, "Flacking for the Emir," in the May 1991 issue of The Progressive.
According to Justice Department documents, 119 Hill & Knowlton executives in 12 U.S. offices supervised the Kuwait public relations effort, Rowse wrote. In its report to the Justice Department, the firm noted that it arranged media interviews for visiting Kuwaitis and observances such as National Free Kuwait Day, National Prayer Day For Kuwait and National Student Information Day, as well as organized public rallies, released hostage letters to the media, distributed news releases and information kits, contacted politicians at all levels of government and produced a nightly radio show in Arabic from Saudi Arabia.
In addition, Frank Mankiewicz, vice chairman of Hill & Knowlton and former press secretary and advisor to former Sen. George McGovern and the late Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, arranged hundreds of meetings, brief ings, telephone calls and mailings directed toward the editors of daily newspapers and other media outlets, according to O'Dwyer.
O'Dwyer said he was awed by the rapid and expansive work of Hill & Knowl ton on behalf of CFK. He noted in the January 1991 issue of O'Dwyer's FARA Report: "Hill & Knowlton . . . has assumed a role in world affairs unprecedented for a PR firm. H & K has em ployed a stunning variety of opinion-forming devices and techniques to help keep U.S. opinion on the side of the Kuwaitis . . . The techniques range from full-scale press conferences showing torture and other abuses by the Iraqis to the distribution of tens of thousand of 'Free Kuwait' T-shirts and bumper stickers at college campuses across the U.S."
Hill & Knowlton had another interesting client. In October 1988, the firm was hired for public relations and scandal management by the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), just three days after the bank was indicted by a federal grand jury for conspiring with the Medellin Drug Cartel to launder $32 million in illicit drug profits, according to Johan Carlisle in his article, "Hill & Knowlton, Robert Gray and the CIA," in the spring 1993 issue of Covert Action Quarterly.
Hill and Knowlton also produced dozens of "video news releases" costing more than half a million dollars, resulting in tens of millions of dollars worth of free air time. Television news directors showed these releases while rarely (if ever) noting the Kuwaiti public relations firm as the source of the footage, according to Martin A. Lee and Norman Solomon, authors of the book, Unreliable Sources: A Guide to Detecting Bias in News Media. Americans assumed they were watching U.S.-reported journalism rather than the efforts of Bush administration advisors and Kuwaiti-hired Amer i can public relations firms.
John R. MacArthur claimed in his book, Second Front: Censorship and Propaganda in the Gulf War, that a secret Pentagon memo outlined a plan to constrain and control journalists. Mac Arthur wrote that a massive baby-sitting operation would ensure that no truly independent or uncensored reporting reached back to the U.S. public. "News media representatives will be escorted at all times," the memo stated. "Repeat, at all times,"
Following the Gulf War, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation produced "To Sell a War," an award-winning Emmy television documentary about Kuwait's use of cash to promote military intervention, according to Stauber and Rampton. The documentary featured an interview with a Hill and Knowlton contracted pollster, Wirth lin Group executive Dee Alsop. Al sop stated on camera that Wirthlin's job was "to identify the messages that really resonate emotionally with the American people."
Since there was a potential Justice Department cover-up of a massive documented plan to sell the idea of committing American men and women to war in the Middle East with the use of foreign funds, Americans may want assurances that similar actions are not repeated by the next president.
Rowse and O'Dwyer reported in May and October 1991 that immediately after the Gulf War, Sam Zakhem, a former U.S. ambassador to the oil- rich gulf state of Bahrain, funneled $7.7 million for advertising and lobbying through two front groupsCoalition for Americans at Risk, a former front group for the Contras in Nicaragua, and Freedom Task Force. They also reported that the Coalition for Americans at Risk placed ads in newspapers and commercials on television, as well as had 50 speakers available for pro-war rallies and publicity events. Rowse and O'Dwyer, however, did not relate that the source of the money was laundered through the two organizations.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 21, 2000.
As I said LMAO you being the coward that you are won't address the issue, which is OIL and RC's predictions.I have given you ample evidence, I have given you evidence about Bush's involvemenet...
You seem to think that millions dead and infected with gulf war syndrome and uranium radiation, to say nothing of the USA's policy of starving Iraqis even now is a joke...
Karma my friend.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 21, 2000.
Andy and Mike:Oil has always behaved strangely...hating to suggest that I may be a tad older than you two. The oil companies will ALWAYS raise prices due to PERCEIVED shortages. At least that was my experience, working for them for 20 years or more. [I've seen the airlines do the surtax for fuel thingee several times before also, Andy.]
I'll leave the Bush debate to y'all. I understand that www.sightings.com and Mr. Icke agree that at least one of the Bush family is reptilian in nature. The Bush family connection to oil has certainly not been a secret either, but once the topic strays from Y2k-induced topics and into political and reptilian arenas, I no longer engage in the conversation.
-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.com), January 21, 2000.
Anita -I'll leave the Bush debate to y'all. I understand that www.sightings.com and Mr. Icke agree that at least one of the Bush family is reptilian in nature. The Bush family connection to oil has certainly not been a secret either, but once the topic strays from Y2k-induced topics and into political and reptilian arenas, I no longer engage in the conversation.
-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.com), January 21, 2000.
======================================================================
When have I ever go on record on this forum as saying that I espoosed Ickes' views on repttilians and shapeshifting.
You know ***damn well*** if you are being honest that I haven't as does LMAO who is a long time regular.
I am disappointed with you - your statement above insinuates I brought the subject up when you know i didn't.
You guys all try the same old tricks - erect a straw man [which in this case is baseless and untrue] - then demolish it.
How very adult and how very telling of the intelligence of you detractors.
I say once again to LMAO - you are nothing but an unfeeling scumbag to belittle the deaths of all these innocents.
have a nice day.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 21, 2000.
Andy:I assume you addressed this comment to ME, as you presented my post as proof of same. Whether you do/do not expoose [couldn't find THAT one in my dictionary] the reptilian shape-shifting topics put forth by www.sightings.com as well as Mr. Icke, you certainly must admit that both of these sources have engaged in presentations on the topic, as well as admit that you have sited BOTH of these references on numerous occasions. I didn't use these references as proof for ANYTHING *I* said...YOU, however, have referenced them on multiple occasions.
If I were to encounter a man-on-the-street type of person who told me about shape-shifting reptiles in ONE session, Andy, and then came back later to tell me about his views on Y2k...do you REALLY think I would believe anything he said regarding Y2k? Yeah...I KNOW...I just don't think far enough "out of the box." [off now to shift my shape into something more resembling "7 of 9"]
Where were strawmen? What ARE strawmen? Mr. Coombes provided hearsay from perhaps 1-3% of the oil industry. His leanings towards collapse despite the oil industry have been heavily documented by HIMSELF. You tell ME why I should believe HIM versus MY contacts in the field, Andy, and we may have a starting point for a discussion.
-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.com), January 21, 2000.
Andy don't be intimidated by this (im)poster. How can he possibly see the big picture and understand the real intentions of the illuminati? Reptilian shape shifter is merely a symbolic metaphor. Often applied by the biblical prophets, ie the ten headed "beast" of revelations is not an animal or dragon per se, but in fact a "ten headed" monolith, be it corporations, countries or some other such superstructure which gains its strength from evil. Some would simply say the "beast" of the ancient Roman empire merely evolved into global capitalism and the juice which runs it is OIL!!! As for Bush (CIA or Capitalist Intelligence for America inc.) He/it BEHAVES like a reptile. As does the monarchy of Queen Lizard-Beth. It's all just metaphor. But the bloodstained hands are real enough. Ask Kissinger about all the dead Cambodians. Evil begets more evil. It's spiritual thing LMAO and you ain't got no soul. May the REAL reptilian troll begone!
-- Sally Hemmings (286yrsinUSA@slavery.com), January 21, 2000.
Kudos to the sysop who fixed my missing HTML tag.
-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.com), January 21, 2000.
Andy:WRT To deplted Uranium:
and applies 100% to Kosovo as well.
If you'd like to read about the effects of depleted uranium in the Gulf from a more "main stream" source, how about the Guardian/Observer from England:
Victims of a war they never saw
-------- EXERPTS FROM FIRST LINK ABOVE FOLLOW ----------
(snip)
Over the course of the two month war, 3,700 Iraqi tanks were obliterated- 1,400 of them by shells encased in depleted uranium. Thousands of artillery pieces, armored personnel carriers and other equipment were destroyed by DU rounds. 940,000 30mm shells encased in depleted uranium were fired from U.S. planes, and 14,000 larger DU shells from tanks, along with an untold number of Tomahawk missiles tipped with depleted uranium. By war's end, roughly 300 tons of uranium from spent rounds lay scattered in various sizes and states of decay across the battlefields of Iraq and Kuwait.(2) Welcome to the wave of the future: '`low intensity" nuclear war, inaugurated in the Gulf War by the United States.(3)
Depleted uranium1 is a highly toxic and radioactive by-product of the uranium enrichment process used in nuclear reactors and the manufacture of nuclear weapons. Natural uranium, with a half-life of 4.5 billion years, is comprised of three isotopes: 99.27 percent U238, 0.72 percent U235, and .0057 percent U234. DU is uranium with the U235 isotope-the fissionable material-reduced from 0.7 percent to 0.2 percent-thus, "depleted." The Pentagon says DU is relatively harmless, emitting "only" 60 percent the radiation of non-depleted uranium. But Dr. Ernest Sternglass, Jay Gould and Benjamin Goldman have shown that even low-level radiation emitted during the "normal" functioning of nuclear power plants creates havoc with people's immune system as well as the surrounding environment.(4) And, according to independent scientists, "a DU antitank round outside its metal casing can emit as much radiation in one hour as fifty chest X-rays."(5) A tank driver receives a radiation dose of 0.13 mrem/hr to his or her head from overhead DU armor,(6) which may seem like a very low dose. However, after 32 continuous days, or 64 12-hour days, the amount of radiation a tank driver receives to his head will exceed the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's standard for public whole-body annual exposure to man-made sources of radiation.(7) Unfortunately, U.S. tank crews were not monitored for radiation exposure during the Gulf war.(8)
(snip)
One researcher found that a single molecular particle of depleted uranium will subject an individual to radiation at a level 800 times what is permitted by federal regulations for external exposure.(10) Twenty-two vets still have uranium shrapnel imbedded in their bodies. As DU-artillery shells heat up, the uranium becomes aerosolized, releasing high amounts of radioactivity -not the low amounts the military claims for "normal" depleted uranium. Clouds of deadly uranium dioxide dust particles swept over large areas of Iraq and Kuwait, devastating agriculture, soil and water.(11)
(snip)
Radioactivity inflicts severe damage on the total environment while weakening immune systems, destroying the kidneys, lungs, bones and liver, and rendering the human body susceptible to all sorts of diseases a healthy individual is able to ward off. Iraqi children continue to find uranium-coated shells; they have been coming down with all sorts of deadly illnesses associated with radiation poisoning. A secret report by the British government estimated that the use of depleted uranium weapons in the Gulf could alone account for 500,000 deaths in the region.(13) That report was based on estimates that 25 tons of depleted uranium munitions had been used; in actuality, the Department of Defense now estimates that the U.S. fired more than 12 times that amount.
(snip)
In introducing the use of depleted uranium weapons the U.S. government used its own soldiers as guinea pigs,permanently destroyed the ecology of the region, and left an ongoing legacy of childhood leukemia, birth defects and poisoned water for civilians living in the Gulf. And the U.S.-as it did in dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki-has made tile horror of low intensity nuclear weapons the necessary norm for future conflicts.
-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 21, 2000.
To all,I am amazed at the underhanded and despicable manner in which these destructive trolls have now conducted themselves. They have achieved new lows in savagery. They've attempted to destroy me and my work and not just posting here at TB2K. They also have demonstrated that they can't correctly investigate the facts before leaping to conclusions. But I need to set the record straight and demonstrate why these "Pollies" are not to be trusted. First of all, no one's personal religious views has a thing to do with a secular factor like Y2K. What we have here is another example of Political correctness carried over into the theological realm. But let me set the record straight on so many other points. I saw blatant, libelous mischaracterization, and misrepresentation from the start. Let's start from the top.
My email was always valid, unlike those of my detractors. My theological views were kept out of the Y2K debate as they are truly OT for such a forum as this. The Pollies would now attempt to make it On Topic. I resist such a notion. My views though, are as valid as any views the rest of you may have, whether it be Christian, Jewish, Agnostic, Atheistic, Islamic or whatever. Ironically though, the notion of TEOTWAWKI is in complete contradiction to my views. I never promoted TEOTWAWKI. But they would have you the reader believe that I was the leader of doomism. A 5 to 7 is the most that I assigned to Y2K, far from TEOTWAWKI. I never said the oil industry would collapse, though I said that if certain events occurred it might so damage the industry that it might take 10 years to recover to 1999 levels. Premised upon a possible collapse at rollover.
I ALSO NEVER PROMOTED MY THEOLOGY here on this forum. I have not tried to make any money from Y2K in any way. Neither did I try to promote a book here for profits. Frankly, my 256 page book had 2 printings and did rather well during its run but is now out of print. The distributors are now out of stock. The website features a free online magazine type of site for articles relating to T-H-E-O-R-I-E-S involving Biblical Prophecy of which there are many and varied such views.
What must be noted here is that these trollish detractors can't get the facts straight. My theological research is THEORETICAL. Furthermore, it has no particular time frame, other than speculation in its possible occurence in the near term. No dates were set. I'm not a date setter nor do am I a proponent of "Bible Codes"as was alleged in one post. In fact the insane reference was actually for an article which refuted the Bible Codes theory. Furthermore, the material in question looks at all the other theories out there, even the fringe stuff...just to present the reader with all the optional views. No editorial endorsement was provided when presenting alternative theoretical views. But those facts must not get in the way of the Polly Trolls. They never paid much attention to the facts. Their responses here on this thread have amply demonstrated that they just can't get their facts straight nor keep them straight. If they had taken the time to read carefully they would not have made the claims that they've made. That includes their insinuation about "aliens"... Had they bothered to read carefully, they'd have realized that "aliens" is a ruse as part of the theory proposed.
Regarding my own research on the issues that have been raised by the Pollies...the material research involves the extensive use of the ancient Koine-Greek text and the ancient Hebrew texts of the biblical writings. How many of these detractors know those languages? Do they know what a first, second or third Aorist tense is? Can they read the Dead Sea Scrolls? Hmmm? Can any of these detractors do translation work in those 2 languages? My research materials and articles work form the basis for the above & it is from a THEORETICAL perspective. My work examines and searches for an understanding of the term "Mystery Babylon." of the Biblical Prophecies. This research has spanned many (12) years of careful and scholarly research. Now I see it being twisted and distorted by a kindergarten kind of mentality from those who are hopelessly incapable of grasping what they're reading or seeing. Does anyone wonder why I would wish to keep this apart from Y2K? It is very complex, little understood issue easily distorted by the uninformed troll and it has no reason to become a focal point on a discussion forum about any issue like Y2K. In fact, my research regarding Mystery Babylon indicates that whatever nation is "Mystery Babylon"... the description of events involving her is precluded by a period of great prosperity and no war on her home soil. In other words, the Mystery Babylon data points, preclude a Y2k if it is to happen around Y2K. So, I never felt that the Mystery Babylon theory was pertinent to Y2K. period. Y2K was/is a totally separate issue and antithetical to one another if to occur simultaneously or nearly simultaneously. But that didn't stop the Pollies from jumping to conclusions now, did it?
Frankly, I'd love to argue with you Pollies on the merits of the subject. There is one problem in arguing the merits of "Mystery Babylon" on this forum. It is off-topic for this forum. It has nothing to do with Y2K. It never did. In fact, aside from the oil post with Y2K I had only one other Y2K type of article which analyzes a prediction involving the antichrist and which states that the antichrist will think to to change the calendar system. (Daniel 7:25). The idea being that IF we are now near that time-frame for the antichrist then indeed there MIGHT be a Y2K connection but whether that might be related to computers and problems was not the real issue. What the Pollies didn't bother to read in that article nor recognize is that there is right now a move underway to change the calendrical system that the world operates under. I'd give a link for proof but in double checking it, I see it is now a dead link. It is based upon a PR statement from the WORLD SUMMIT ON PEACE and TIME held in Costa Rica from June 22-27th, 1999. Among the participants were members of the UN and a key behind-the-scenes power broker named Maurice Strong who was one of the guiding forces in getting Bill Clinton elected.
Other than that there is nothing else in my website relating to Y2K. My views are that we are a long way from the end of the world. Oh, and "armageddon" in the ancient writings is not the end of the world. It is the end of a long-term era of a millenia. A new long term time frame of 1,000 years follows it...so Y2K could not be TEOTWAWKI as I see it. But I didn't argue it with those folks who did think TEOTWAWKI. Why? Why should I? Let people have their views. Don't act like a Nazi or a Communist to impose your own views on others. However, the Pollies wish to do this, as evidenced by their tactics, including what we've now seen on this thread with all of its intimidations.
Another of the issues these Polly Trolls raised involved Freemasonry and George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. For those who are unaware, George Washington was a Mason as were most of the key founding fathers. Not only is this acknowledged by masonic websites but also in Federal governmental documents including those relating to the cornerstone-laying of the Capitol building and a bronze-relief artwork portraying Washington laying the cornerstone in his masonic apron with trowel. There is the issue of the masonic monument to Washington (the Washington Monument). There are numerous links to the Library of Congress website and masonic websites on these matters. Want links? I can dig them out.
Jefferson was not a member of freemasonry but he shared many of their views, he was more of a follower of Adam Weishaupt who founded the Bavarian Illuminati movement in 1776. Both groups have dictums that point to Egyptian religion, and also to Crusaders secret dogmas, both of which can be traced back to the Sumerians/Babylonians. All of the pantheistic ancient religions, from Egypt to Assyria, to Greece, to Rome, and also Phoenicia...all were derived from Babylon but transformed & adapted to their own culture. Ishtar worship was the most popular and was adopted almost universally but with various doctrinal elements altered.
Other famous founding fathers who were masons included Ben Franklin, Thomas Payne and many more. I also provided links on that.
From the US Library of Congress are documents showing that the Capitol building was modelled after the Roman Pantheon... and the Roman pantheon was a copy of the Babylonian Pantheon.
The key book on the history of the Statue of Liberty written by Marvin Trachtenburg is cited regarding the history of the Statue of Liberty. He meticulously points out from the diary of the sculptor Bartholdi that the concept was based upon the ancient roman goddess known as Libertas (Liberty) from 4th-6th Century B.C. The Romans borrowed this goddess from Babylon's Ishtar. Ishtar was the chief goddess of Babylon and was called by many names, including main titles of "queen of heaven." "goddess offreedom/liberty," (she was the goddess of slaves who prayed to her for liberation). She was also called the goddess of prostitutes because this goddess introduced prostitution to the world and it was considered "holy." In Ishtar worship ones sins were forgiven by going to the temple and engaging in ritual sexual relations with a temple priestess or priest and paying money. This action cleansed one from sin. This process also promoted homosexuality equally to heterosexuality and both were holy within the temple framework. As I stated, she went by other titles also. She was also the goddess of Immigrants and Immigration. Now, the sculptor, Bartholdi...was a freemason. So too was the fellow who led the fundraising efforts for the statue, LaBoulaye.
But the Statue of Liberty isn't the only artistic representation of Ishtar floating on the American Cultural scene. So too is the statue atop the US Capitol dome. She is the Statue of Freedom. As you research into this statue you find the artist was also a freemason who also took up the project from a Congressional award. The statue was to be a rendering of the goddess of Freedom of Rome... i.e. Libertas. Libertas= Liberty or Freedom depending on how you wish to translate it. In the early part of the 19th century (prior to the Civil War) Libertas was primarily translated as "freedom". This rendering was of the goddess as a warrioress...which was also another aspect of Ishtar...she was the goddess of war and also the goddess of love. She promoted both war and wild, wanton sexuality. She introduced the concept of not only homosexuality but also incest, and bestiality as well as other strange perversions. Ishtarism promoted the concept of "if it feels good, do it." I've just scratched the surface of her various dogmas. Needless to say, the statue on the US Capitol dome is another rendering of Ishtar of Babylon. OH, there is also a version of her on the Texas state capitol. There may other versions at other state capitols, but I'm not sure. Again, the Library of Congress provides pivotal confirmation along with the older visitor materials given to tourists at the Capitol building.
In addition to this there are statues/paintings of many other "Greek/Roman gods" inside the US Capitol building, including inside on the dome ceiling. These deities were borrowed from Babylon. America has a hidden connection to Babylonian influences as have all other great empires and nations.
Another Babylonian oddity linked to the USA is that the second most popular temple in all of Babylonia was called "The White House" -- a temple of the sun god UTU (a.k.a Shamesh)... who by the way, has a link to the Statue of Liberty as Marvin Trachtenburg's book also points out, in that the 7 crown spikes of the Statue of Liberty is to reflect the "enlightenment" of the sun god (Utu or Shamesh) with each of the 7 spikes & to reflect that light of Utu to each of the 7 continents on planet Earth. The lamp of the Statue of Liberty was originally to be a golden cup, but at the last minute, after the cup was made, the city of New York asked for a change to a lamp to assist in nighttime marine traffic as a lighthouse. The sculptor complied and a lamp was made instead. The "golden" cup was later sold to the czar of Russia and later held by the Communist Soviet Union. In 1996 or 1997, Russia quietly attempted to put it up for sale. I never did here if it was sold or not. Originally the Statue was to not be copper, but was to be in colors or at least her robe was to be the color of Scarlet-Purple. She was also initially designed to be a royal queen bedecked with royal jewelry but that was later scrapped, along with the color idea as being too expensive, but it was the original design and intent were it not found later to be impractical and too expensive.
Don't believe it? Read: "The Statue of Liberty Revisited -- Essays" Edited by Wilton S. Dillon and Neil G. Kotler Published by Smithsonian Institution Press, Washington D.C.
"The Statue of Liberty" by Marvin Trachtenberg Published by Viking-Penguin, New York, New York. [ the author is a well-known and respected artistic historian. His book is considered to be one of the definitive histories of the Statue. ]
Both will confirm the masonic connections and the links to goddess Libertas concept. There is so much more data out there, and much of it in my research work. But the pollies didn't bother to read it. They don't seem to get much of anything right and they certainly don't let the facts get in their way in regards to my materials.
Regarding the notion of aliens. Had they bothered to read carefully, they would have realized that nothing is being promoted about real aliens existing. This "alien" idea is actually linked to angeology and the rebel angels now engaged in a cosmic civil war against the Creator God of the Universe and these forces utilize the tactic of deception upon the human race. My thesis is that there will be an action undertaken by angelic forces that will be explained as an alien attack by governments here on earth. The action taken by the angelic forces will be a re-run of what happened with Sodom and Gomorrah and the "7 cities of the plain" only this time it will be a much larger operation. The action will precede the rise of the Antichrist. It will last an hour and be total destruction. What is the basis for making the claim that this mystery Babylon is the USA and not the Roman Catholic church or Iraq, or the New World Order, or the UN or some other nation or city? Well, in my book, I feature 2 lists; one lists 33 character traits found in the relevant Old Testament passages. In Appendix One, I have another list and it totals 66 character traits.
All of this comes from the following Biblical scriptures relating to a future nation code-named Mystery Babylon... [NO-- this has nothing to do with Bible Codes, the idea of "code" is metaphorical]
See the following passages ... Isaiah chapters 13, 14, 18, 47; Jeremiah chapters 50,51; and Revelation chapters 17 and 18 plus segment of Revelation chapter 16 and verses 17-2. Among the most revealing character traits of mystery Babylon are:
Is a world super-power and the last of the world super powers. She is the world's policman. Hebrew idiom used to describe Rome's role in putting out brush fire wars around the empire, she was the "hammer of the whole earth" the equivalent to our idiom of World Policeman. She carries out her police enforcement by means of "gunboat diplomacy"... A Hebraic obscure idiom...for foreign policy carried out by warships. Their idiom for this was also later used to describe the actions taken by the Assyrian, Persian and Greek and Roman fleets. Rome particularly as a show of force to intimidate an opponent to submit and to reassure an ally, "showing the flag."
M.B has defenses in space. Whether weapons or communications? Not sure
Her leaders are holed up in "bunkers" during the attack.
She is the world's wealthiest nation. She is the engine of wealth for the world's economy. When destroyed the world's merchants lament her destruction by wailing that no man buy's their merchandise anymore.
Her chief city is a deepwater seaport, which has a 24-hour a day party lifestyle characterized by bright gaudy colored lights and "orgiastic partying all night long"... which is considered the chief city in the world. It is a city/nation of immigration for the world.
Mystery Babylon is both hated and yet respected and envied by the world.
Babylon and her chief city are where all the world's leaders "stream" to meet. Her chief (or largest city) surrounds where the kings meet.
She has no fear of invasion of her home soil.
She is noted for her drug use.
She had a unique and different beginning than other nations before her and awe-inspiring in her birth and noted as a land of rebels not only in birth but also in judgment.
She is a cosmopolitan and urban nation and yet maintains herself with her own agriculture. She is more than a city, she is a nation of many cities with an army, and navy and air power with defenses reaching into outer space.
Is allied to Satanic forces, literally and physically.
Mystery Babylon is noted for being the: Leader in trading of gold Leader in trading of silver Leader in trading of copper Leader in trading of oil Leader in trading of lumber Leader in trading of iron. Leader in trading of grains and meats and food.
Mystery Babylon: Is the key marketplace for buying of gems Is the key marketplace for cosmetics Is the key marketplace for fashion clothing, marble, ivory, wine, health products, transportation.
Her merchants are the "Mega-merchants" or "super-merchants" of the earth. Her merchants are the experts in marketing, merchandising, public relations etc. Indications that she has a service economy and that she is a net importer of goods that she takes in more than she exports.
She is wasteful and extravagant and noted for being a polluter. The nation is so wrapped up in patriotism that it becomes self-deification (and idolatry of self). She in turn exports this notion to the rest of the world along with all of her cultural aspects to the rest of the world.
Her leaders are deceit-filled and twice as wicked as any others. They apparently enter into secrets with the Satanic forces... and this helps them to believe that they cannot be seen. "stealth"... seems to indicate the notion that either some war capability is stealthy or the leaders think they are "stealthy" as in invisible in their treachery. "no one sees me anymore"
Her symbol is of a robed woman with a container in her hand which is seen surrounded by many waters and people, particularly immigrants. She has a "mother-like" status (but she's not a mother) and also as a philosophical way of life. She is called the "Mother" of Prostitutes as in a Madam of a house or Temple of prostitution (in the greek text the word has a connotation to our word for exiles.) Statue of Liberty is also called "Mother of Exiles" as the goddess Ishtar was called "Mother of Immigrants." Because Babylon also was THE place for people to immigrate to. There they would enjoy liberty and freedom. It was also a land of many cultures and religions. Hence the Number 1 religious site was the PANTHEON of Babylon, a temple dedicated to ALL the gods of the world. Here we had a one-world religion practised with the other religions being subservient.
Mystery Babylon is noted for an attitude of over-optimism with a "can- do" attitude, especially in regards to her future. Everything is hunky-dory in Babylon until suddenly...a cosmic Pearl Harbor of sorts ensues.
She is noted as a land of many fresh waters, with a broad river in its middle and a land divided by many rivers... emphasis on this M.B. as a nation having abundant, clean drinking water, unlike the rest of the world.
Her military rules the oceans, references to her having some kind of dominating air power (whirring wings on her ships) and that she has some kind of defenses in space... she has some kind of presence in the atmosphere where there is no air. (the ethers)... As in earth orbit.
Now I could give the Biblical passages for references if someone asks me for them but they are in the prior references given above. The above is just a sampling of the various data points that give us the character traits that help identify what nation might fit these characteristics. The theory here holds to the notion that for several years now, and for the near term anyway these traits certainly seem to fit the USA. These traits may hold for perhaps 10, 20 or 30 years. Maybe even 100 years. We just don't know. The end point of the theory is that this Super-Power MB is destroyed by a supernatural event, that will undoubtedly be explained away as an "alien" attack and this will spur the world finally into a "one world" government for planetary defense purposes. However, the unity will not be cohesive nor lasting. BTW, The actual destruction will be carried out by the same folks that brought on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and the 7 sister cities of the Plain, near the today's Dead Sea. In fact, we now have satellite images that show some of these cities underneath the Dead Sea. They also had Pyramids too or so it seems from image enhancements. I can provide a link if anyone would like to see those fascinating pictures. It's from a group that has done TV documentaries on archaeology.
Another issue these Trolls twisted: The SOHO images which are on my website relate to strange anomalies imaged by the NASA/ESA satellite that monitors Solar activity. This includes some strange objects that cannot be easily nor readily explained. We flat out do not know what they are. They were posted to underscore that we really don't know nor have all the answers out in space as modern science would lead one to believe. We posted articles providing an analysis of the false prophecies of Nostradamus along with other fakes and charlatans. But you wouldn't know it to read the Pollies descriptions.
For some reason, these pollies have assumed that I was some sort of backer of a fellow named Icke? Wrong again. (Couldn't you just figure it though, par for the course). Icke was simply referenced for his fringe contacts and claims. No endorsement was given and rather, a disclaimer was made. We would monitor a variety of viewpoints for various reasons and not because we endorsed them. Just like the debunkers monitor TB2000. It doesn't mean they endorse this site now does it?
That pretty much sums up the main points raised by the Polly detractors. As you can see, it has very little to do with the notion of doom and gloom for Y2K TEOTWAWKI. My theories of Mystery Babylon have no bearing whatsover on Y2k issues. Period.
Also, had they bothered to read the material carefully they would have noted that my research started out to disprove the notion that the US was Mystery Babylon. For several years I tried to dig up irrefutable proof. I couldn't. No matter how hard I tried. I was in total disbelief that USA=Babylon theory should be considered as a theory. This was in part because of what I learned while studying theology at the Moody Bible Institute of Chicago and Calvary Bible College in Kansas City. I was forced by the textual evidence from working in the ancient Hebrew and Greek texts to reconsider the possibilities.
Needless to say, my material on this is only for the academics in theology, and not for the general public. Frankly it is something that is so far over the average person's head that a casual introduction provides little or no understanding of the data. It involves time and investigative and educational effort to understand it enough to give it a judicious and fair evaluation.
Thus it was totally off base and out of bounds for this forum. Now, the Polly Trolls have raised the issue. But a Y2K forum is NOT the place to discuss these issues rationally.
Frankly the Trolls have gone far out of bounds on this. They have victimized one too many times. Their destruction deserves prosecution. It's gonna cost me to rebuild my website not to mention the time involved. Plus I don't even do webmastering.
It's an outrage in what these people have perpetrated here not only upon myself but upon many others. I realize SYSOPS have their hands tied. There is nothing that they could do. But unless something is done about CPR and his cohorts like LL things will only deteriorate. I hope the Feds and other law enforcement officials will finally be able to come forward and apprehend and prosecute these people for the crimes that they have committed. I wish there were some way to ban them from access to this forum. I know other software forums have such capabilities, it might have helped stop this nonsense a long time ago if it were employed back then.
I've attempted to provide meaningful dialogue and helpful information. For my efforts I have been smeared and libeled maliciously. False statements and characterizations have been made about me repeatedly here by these destructive Polly Trolls. I, for one, look forward to the opportunity to see those responsible brought to justice. In the meantime, this forum has ceased to be what it started out to be. These destructive persons have been allowed to reign here and control this board as it pleased them. It is no longer a safe place for discussion and it will not be a safe place for discussion as long as the perpetrators run free. You will not see me back here again. It's time to go. I wish it were not so, but I am tired of the dealing with these people. For most of you folks, I've have the utmost respect and admiration. I wish you well. I hope that we have or will soon see a peaking of the worst aspects of Y2K, but its obviously not over yet. Not over for the oil industry nor perhaps for segments of the manufacturing industry. As someone re-posted my very first post here, you will note at the bottom, I never said it would be a 10. I said a range of 5 to 7 was most likely. Since Jan 1, I've pulled it back to a "5" and I still see "5" as a real serious possibility/probability? Not exactly doomerism but certainly not pollytrollyism either.
I do want to say thank you to all of those who've been such an integral force in this forum. This includes Ed Yourdon, the Sysops including, Diane and Chuck, and the mysterious Sysops #3. Also, to folks like Andy, Gordon, Downstreamer, Linkmeister, Homer Beanfang, Cheryl from Oregon, Dr. Paula Gordon, Sysman, Big Dog, Dog Gone, Robert Cook, Shakey, Hokie, Mike, Bokonon, Night train, King of Spain, Snooze button, Carl, Wilferd, Will Continue, Ashton & Leska and so many others of you whom I am not sure if your still there are not plus those that are now gone from the forum who were such a wonderful folk to meet and talk with. I've enjoyed our discussions even if we've not always agreed all the time.
Farewell and may grace and peace be with you.
-- RC (racambab@mailcity.com), January 22, 2000.
RC,As a daily lurker and sometime poster for over a year now, this is the saddest thing I've seen here...and there have been many sad things. What a helpless feeling to witness a pack of rabid hyenas ripping into someone who has always been a gentleman on this forum. Your farewell, and the circumstances that precipitate it, bring me to tears. Words cannot adequately express my sorrow that this has happened to you. Peace be with you, RC.
-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), January 22, 2000.
Amused = LMAO = CPR = hundreds of other "handles". SYSOPS, why not banish this jerk already?
-- laugh it up (cpr@instant.karma), January 22, 2000.
Shoot, them mean ol' sysops deleted my David Ickey posts. Meanies. But, here's a link to ol' RC pontificating on electric power, and being completely wrong.There it goes again about David Icke
Sysops - I've had enough, I want this persons ISP - I'm going to prosecute,
And jonathan Latimer - you are the lowest of the low - please crawl back to wherever you crouch...
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 22, 2000.
RUOK said it nicely for me as well. RC, you have been one of the most informative and lovely gentelmen this forum has ever had. You will be missed terribly.The maniacal games that have been played by a few mentally disturbed "Trolls" on this forum will provide students of psychology with enough 'material' to create new catagories of mental and emotional afflictions for years to come. A truer example of evil versus virtue could never exist elswhere.
RC, you have always provided the example of peace and grace. I thank you for that and shake my head in shame for the lost souls found in our present society.
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), January 22, 2000.
RC, You're a gentleman and a scholar.
-- Downstreamer (downstream@bigfoot.com), January 22, 2000.
As I said earlier, this thread should be deleted. Now it's too late. The damage is done. Sad.
-- (hal@gostek.org), January 22, 2000.
Forgive me for bringing this to your attention, but Mr. Coombes has NOT always been a gentleman on this forum. He claimed to have insider information on power also, as demonstrated in another thread here"Meanwhile, Flint and Bobhow's that Crow? Did it get done enough for you? Need a little more salt and pepper? How about some ketchup? Where's Anita when you need to rub it in her face? Well, you people will just never get it until you become some of the early fatalities in Y2K. Sad thing is that it will be too late for us to rub it in your face that "we told you so" when it comes."
"Anita, I just came to this forum by accident. I'm not paid by anyone to post. How about you? I'll bet there must be a whole raft of corporations paying you to post here and keep people happy? Or maybe you're on the government happy-face spinmeister squad. If you're not, maybe you could have a new short-lived career as a spinmeister. You've got the necessary talent.
Meanwhile... You apparently didn't bother to read the articles in my post above. I quote the Kansas City Star and KCTV-5's Newsletter from its investigative reporting unit "Call for Action."
Maybe we should get a video tape of KCTV's news stories? Would that help you any? No, not one bit. I could also name names, but that wouldn't do anyone any good. You'd call them a liar. They'd get turned in and fired.
I've talked with these people. I know them. They do NOT LIE. I also KNOW that they are quietly making preparations to head for the hills. That also should be sobering testimony. They're putting money where their mouths are. And these aren't the only ones there's more.
You know, if it weren't for dimwits like you, spinmeisters wouldn't have jobs and we might just get the truth. But you'd swallow anything that was positive rather than face the facts. You have NOT been in the trenches with the people getting the dirt under their fingernails battling the problems we're discussing, but I have been there with folks who ARE IN THE KNOW. You are not there. You have not been there. You know nothing!
-- R.C. (racambab@mailcity.com), June 21, 1999. "
Of course YOUR standards of being a gentleman and MY standards may be miles apart.
-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.com), January 22, 2000.
Anita - believe me - you're no lady.I'm appalled at your behaviour over the last two years - you never cease to amaze me.
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 22, 2000.
Andy:Please provide a post wherein I called anyone a name, trolled the forum, or anything else which may reflect appalling behavior. I'd particularly be interested in anything I posted prior to June of 1999.
-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.com), January 22, 2000.
laugh it up (cpr@instant.karma):It's clear that LMAO cannot be CPR, as the former writes (more or less) intelligible sentences that contain a large number of lower case letters. The lack of **** and foul language is also a good clue.
-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), January 22, 2000.
Anyone that thinks religious history began with the Hebrews is a provincial boob. There is AT LEAST 2000 years of WRITTEN religious history prior to the time when the present Jewish calendar started counting. Ishtar, for you idiots, WAS a god. Mary, supposed mother of Jesus, was a LATECOMER on the religious scene. BTW, if Mary and Joseph were real (if you can question Ishtar, I can question M&J), you don't think that old Joe wasn't getting a piece of that (Mary)? Virgin birth, my ass.
-- A (A@AisA.com), January 22, 2000.
ANITA, Andy can't\won't answer you. You have been impersonated, just like many other optimists. Here is a post from summer"Smitty:
I came here lurking today and noticed this thread after perusing many others. It was quite amusing to me to look at the other threads. I now realize that MOST of the posts using MY name and E-mail address on this forum were NOT posted by me. I suspect that other posters have the same problem, and I will again refrain from posting. This (in itself) is enough to discourage me from posting on this forum.
Anita
-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), June 13, 1999."
I know how you feel. Hell I'm not even posting from my 'real' domain anymore...tired of the death threats, the hacking (ala CT 'netghost' and others). Shit I had to change ISP's just so the #$%holes will leave me alone.
I tried turning them in, but many of them covered their tracks so well, it was easier for the authorities to throw their hands up than pursue it further.
I gave up. No more. I hope you fair better than I did Anita. Like Phil G said, there are some aggressive and disturbed individuals that post here.
I would advice just not tangling with them.
-- former "middle grounder" (tired@of.theattacks), January 22, 2000.
Steve Heller and AisA.A momentary hope that their is intellegent life out there, crushed the moment they post.
-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), January 22, 2000.
Cherri:I thought you were a big fan of CPR's "debunking". Don't you realize I've just defended him from the charge of being LMAO? You should be happy that this stain is cleared from his reputation!
-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), January 22, 2000.
former "middle grounder":If my memory serves me well [which it usually doesn't], I don't even believe the imposters did anything that could be considered objectionable behavior toward others.
I certainly haven't encountered the problems that YOU have...although I wouldn't want to put that suggestion into anyone's mind at this point.
In general, folks have been fairly decent to me on this forum. There are ALWAYS folks who choose to use the internet as an outlet, but overall I haven't been damaged beyond coping. [Having 3 teens encourages one to develop coping skills that may not be required for others.] In addition, I've chatted online with many folks from TB2000 via various avenues. They know I'm optimistic regarding the unfolding of Y2k, and I know they were/are pessimistic, but these differences have never interfered with fruitful discussions.
-- Anita (notgiving@anymore.com), January 23, 2000.