http://nativeamericas.aip.cornell.edu/fall99/fall99johnson.html

This may be a little long, although no longer than a magazine article. But, if you're interested in Native culture and/or climate, it's a worthwhile read. (Perhaps, especially, if you're not.)

[clip]"If we are truly looking at the impact of climate change on the United States we absolutely must include Indians," Maynard said. "You can't just pretend it [Indian Country] doesn't exist, because the issues are the same, but there are other issues as well. And we should bloody well pay attention to. them."

Maynard has found that Native peoples prove valuable in sorting out the complexities of climate change.

"The Native American philosophy is to live in harmony with the environment, as part of it," Maynard said. "The philosophy, the culture, the whole way Native Americans approach being part of the environment as opposed to [simply] using it."

Lyons cited a section of the Handsome Lake Code first delivered 200 years ago:

"There will come a time when the Earth will be covered with smoke, and it will take the young and the elderly first."

Said NASA scientist Maynard, "Given the incredible amount of impact humans are having on this planet, if we don't begin, as an entire race or culture, to adopt the kind of philosophy that the Native Americans articulate so well-about how you interact with your environment-we aren't going to have one."

-- (Last=First@First.=Last), January 19, 2000

Answers

Are these the same at one with the environment people who stampeded buffalo over cliffs for an easy kill, letting the excess rot? Who started grass fires to herd game, thus allowing water erosion on the resulting barren plains? Who wiped out the large mammal population of North AMerica (cave bear, mastodon, mammoth, irish elk, great camels, giant sloths, etc etc) through over-hunting, causing mass extinction? Whose racial wars wiped out entire peoples (anyone see an Erie recently, a tribe decimated even before the eponymous Lake was first seen by whites)?

I like and respect the Indians, but come on, to say they are more noble than the rest of humanity is a little bit revisionist.

-- Sampson (Sampson@Ready.net), January 19, 2000.

Wow what a read.

World out of Balance

  """Native communities half a world away. If it affects the ice and alters animal behavior, then it is certainly going to affect the Inuit, the Yupik, the Cree, the Dogrib and all the other peoples that have established a close cultural connection to the ice."""
 

 Well this is interesting, Dogrib tribe getting some notice. Suprising as they only have a few thousand members or so. I used to live in their land by the Great Slave Lake. As  a group the northern natives are called the Dene Nation. Real nice laid back folk. Of course there are effects from the society to the south, not the least is the effects of the church led schools up there in the past.

"""Native communities half a world away""" What a pile of CRAP, where do these folk think Canada is? The distance to the Dene is shorter than from L.A. to New York. The real distance is from reality.

 The Great Slave Lake is one of the largest lakes in the world draining into the Mackenzie River to its end, the Arctic Ocean. The Mackenzie River Basin is also one of the largest watersheds in the world. A vast quantity of the worlds fresh water soaks into the muskeg that covers thousands of square miles. Every year this drains and is evaporated so the water level drops by 4 to 5 feet by the end of the summer to be replenished with the snow melt in the spring.

It is an incredible and fragile ecosystem yet practically unknown. In all of the NWT Canada there are only 50,000 people. Trust me you couldn't imagine the lack of civilization up there. And hardly no one goes to the Barrens as it is only accessible by boat or float plane during the summer,  although there are winter roads that can take trucks in for supplies.

 The ignorance is profound. The arctic is changing and it doesn't have the ability to adapt to changes. The environment is ageless, dwarf trees, muskeg, shrubs, herbs and wildlife that has only known the cold. But it is not the effect of the heat that will kill them it is the lack of water.

 The area is a desert, with 10 or less inches of water a year, that means if the summer is longer and more water flows or is evaporated then the environment will change dramatically. They recieve virutally no rain during the summer so you only have the snow and springwater to supply the land.

This is a huge risk that no one seems to be aware of. And you might ask why I do? It is because of living and working on the Great Slave Lake with the Dogribs and the Chip people for 5 yrs. And since then this little pocket of information has always been on my mind.

I believe that the scope of the problem could never be discribed to people that have never lived on the big lake or the land around it. The vastness and the beauty of the land is awe inspiring at times. And it is in serious risk. It doesn't take rocket science to imagine the impact to the north and most likely the south if the evironment screws up. IMHO there is going to be little change in the Status Quo of Western Civilization, the path is set.

So I am wondering how the Easterners are enjoying the Cold.

Weather shifts are likely to be getting worse as time goes on.

We can learn the hard way or learn the easy way.

You choose.

Keep your liners dry

-- Brian (imager@home.com), January 19, 2000.

This is something (below) I wrote to Andy Last May regarding how I saw the weather situation.

Bingo if you are out there, this is why you keep your liners dry.

Read the article above people. The weather is telling you something.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

-- Brian (imager@home.com), May 09, 1999.

Andy you want to know my biggest fear? That the elements being unpredictable as they can be, create a disaster on top of Y2K. Nature has been reletively kind during the last two winters. (not including the Ice Storm) It has been unseasonably warm. Now that MAY be the result of El NINO but with EL NINA the temps should drop. The Oil Corps know this and that is one reason the price will go up. Heating fuel can influence the price and the bets are on for colder temps. This is usually swimming season for me now and there was hail today.

Some folk might think I "fear monger" on such a topic but after working most of your life outside you get a feel for it. And some of you folk may be into systems in comps but I have been into weather systems.

Lets see if what I am trying to say is clear. Here is an example, up north (NWT) in the middle of January if there is a "chinook", a blast of warm moist air comes through and it is a large weak mass. For a day you will have nice weather. After that the Arctic winds come back and it is hell to just walk around let alone have a civilized life. I point this out as it was a rare occurance up there. Ocean air does not reach up there much

Now we get back and use the same analogy with El Nino and EL Nina. As I have said the extreme of one (the warm Pacific air) pushing the regular arctic weather created an unstable situation, the warm air was not going to stick around and the arctic air "snapped" right back. Hell to pay.

During El Nino we had unusually warm weather. Fires in Florida, heat wave in Texas, Ice Storm in Quebec and NE States and golf in Edmonton this winter. Wierd.

What I am afraid of is a BAD winter, the cold "snaps", this would not be good. I call it a Milne 6. He doesn't measure the scale that high.

That is why you will always hear me tell people to make sure you are warm.

That is my message.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), May 09, 1999.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), January 19, 2000.

strange to read of a world covered in smoke when that is what I'm experiencing in Cape Town right now. Fires are devastating.... Unusually hot weather for this time of year - makes a mockery of those who make a mockery of climate change.

-- (indigoseahorse@hotmail.com), January 19, 2000.

I wonder if the Indians in this country will ever figure out that all of us that were born here are Native Americans. That includes Negroes,Latinos,Japanese, Chinese,Jews, and many many other denominations. Also if the U.S.Army had not defeated the tribes in the 1800's,this country would have been part of Mexico in just a few years. If that didn't happen, Hitler would have met the Japanese Imperial Army in the middle of Kansas and we wouldn't have a free United States of America like we enjoy today.

-- John Thomas (cjseed@webtv.net), January 19, 2000.

John Thompson and Sampson. You are plain racist folks. The Natives of this country (I means original inhabitants of this country, you know before a bunch of white people came and pushed them west and on to tiny reservations). I live in northern Minnesota and I have three reservations around me. They are small and probably don't equal one sixteenth of the state. Keep in mind that they owned all of this and now they own a fraction of it. I don't think you can justify it by saying " Oh, mexico would have done it anyways." Even if by some freak chance the Mexicans did take over their land, I doubt they would have bothered to make a bunch of treaties that they weren't going to honor anyways. Meaning, the only reason they are in the situation is because of us whiteys. The Indians didn't break any treaties and they were the ones who used every part of the buffalo, not the ones who mindlessly slaughtered them. That was the whiteys again, riding on polluting trains, too. I suppose the Indians were hoping to have someone to come and bring a bunch of polluting industry to their land, too. The Hopi Indians actually predicted: Human beings have many evil ambitions in their hearts that they will pursue throughout their lives. There will be roads in the sky. There will be moving houses of iron. There will be horseless carriages. Men will have the ability to speak through cobwebs. Men will have the ability to speak through space. Men's clothing will be taken over by women. Women's skirts will be raised above the knee, devaluing the sacred body of the female, indicating that many things will be devalued from the original. Oh, by the way, if these things came true, it was a real bad sign. Actually when they first saw the white man with a cross not surrounded by a circle, they new that they were in for tough times. If you are not racist I recomend you check out the following site. It is where I got the above information and there is a bunch more. Believe me, Natives have been worried about OUR environment before any of us even knew there would be a problem. http://www.timesoft.com/hopi/mn_prop.htm

-- In reality (bustina420@hotmail.com), January 19, 2000.

In Reality, here is your method of argument:

1) Call the other party a 'Racist.' 2) Ignore the other party's argument.

And thereby you have won.

In Reality, in reality the Indians are humans, neither better nor worse than any other human; I say only that and you call me a racist, yet you positively denigrate the Europeans, and somehow YOU are not a racist.

Let me be patient. Let me ask a question: Custer and the Sioux. Who were the good guys?

The Sioux (Lakota) had been encroaching on Crow (Absoroka) territory, so the Crow found common cause with the United States. For some reason, the Crow objected to their horses being stolen, and their braves being attacked and slaughtered by the Sioux. The Crow then helped the US against what was seen as the invasion by the Sioux.

So were the Crow good or bad? Were the Sioux good or bad?

Treaties are a different topic, and the US was abominable in its violation of the treaties... but that's a different topic.

You must answer the question, In Reality. In Reality! Sit down! You cannot leave until you address the question, and no more name calling until you've completed your exam.

-- Sampson (Sampson@Ready.net), January 19, 2000.

Why is it when you speak the truth and reality to some people you are tagged a racist? They don't listen to what you have to say because when they turn to the side you can see daylight thru one ear and out the other!

-- John Thomas (cjseed@webtv.net), January 19, 2000.

Some how I don't think the political nature of the First Nations was the point of the article.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), January 19, 2000.

attempts at serious communication seem ,to me, to be subject to all the fraility of human language,one culture to another, one age to another,and even one computor to another.

let me invite you [all who have posted so far,and those that might follow] to sit in a circle with me and look at, and think about, this idea of "Native Americans and Climate." from your side you see it one way, from my side another. please remember that i am not trying to patronize,or convert, but to communicate,my thoughts to the others around the circle. this is the way i was "taught" to speak by my people; american; yuchi;tsojaha;children of the sun from a far away land.[are you tired yet?]

so if i have more than a few people seated around this circle ego is set aside and truthtime prevails in the center.[even in my own family this is not easy] in my way[belief system] it does not matter to those seated around the circle if one is male or female,young or old,rich or poor,only that you try to speak well,and honor the truth. now if we can agree that english is the language of america as a whole[not of one particular tribe[[community]].and that the? dictionary is our source for defining terms then we can begin our dance of understanding around the circle of truth.

what does native american mean? from my side of the circle... born in america. how should one describe themselves in as far as the ethnogenic process? from my side...first i am human, second i am american,third i am tsojaha. is there a american philosophy? yes.

does the american philosophy involve nature as an avenue of understanding? yes. has the highest ideal of living in harmony on the physical, emotional,mental,and spiritual levels been violated by most american people?[couldn't we talk about this... for awhile.] yes. is one a fear monger to say the weather is changing? no. the weather is changing,more unpredictable;more severe.

who are the good guys,who are the bad guys? i trained 12 years under my uncle before he would pass the mantle of traditional priest,and even then he told me that i could not really hang my shingle out, so to speak, until i reached the age of 72[good luck] i am still in training. i train as a warrior also, but am reminded by my belief that without a tribe there is no need for warriors. every year i perform a ceremony of renewal whereby i ask: is my belief system still valid? when it quiet,4 am in the morning, just me and my alka seltzer, i am kind to myself... yes i have failed the highest ideals of my american way ,more than once,but i am still more right than i am wrong... my suffering is a glad suffering...my honor is intact; there is honesty and itegrity in my beliefs and action.and i consciously assert that. ho tso

-- "tso" drb hays (bestrong@cmc.net), January 19, 2000.

Chemtrails, these short-eyed oil threads, economic worries, even Y2K have always been tangential considerations to me---very much talking about symptoms while ignoring the disease. Few people of whatever color or culture seem to "get it," as evidenced by the dearth of response to this and other environmemtal threads that I and others have posted to this forum over the years.

Posting and discussing these issues on my usual environmemtal forums are so much choir-preaching. My mission is education. As long as these posts are not deleted, I consider that my planet, as well as my great-grandchildren, are well-served by my posting here.

From: WORLD WATCH INSTITUTE

By Cat Lazaroff

WASHINGTON, DC, January 19, 2000 (ENS) - Glaciers are melting. Where once snow fell, now only rain pounds down. Storm systems driven by tropical heatwaves are getting stronger, and more deadly. Increasing amounts of greenhouse gases are being pumped into the atmosphere, and as a result, temperatures around the globe are rising.

A blue ribbon panel confirmed it last week - global warming is real.

"The two big challenges in this new century are to stabilize climate and population," said Brown at a press conference Thursday. "If we cannot stabilize both, there is not an ecosystem on Earth that we can save. Everything will change. If we can stabilize population and climate, other environmental problems will be much more manageable."

"When the industrial revolution began more than two centuries ago, the carbon dioxide (CO2) concentration was estimated at 280 parts per million (ppm)," writes Worldwatch Institute president Lester Brown in the groups latest roundup of environmental problems, "State of the World 2000."

"By 1959, when detailed measurements began, using modern instruments, the CO2 level was 316 ppm, a rise of 13 percent over two centuries. By 1998, it had reached 367 ppm, climbing 17 percent in just 39 years. This increase has become one of Earths most predictable environmental trends," Brown wrote in the the Worldwatch report.

But the steady rise of CO2 has had numerous unpredictable side effects - some of which threaten to become catastrophic. Over the last three decades, global average temperature has risen by 0.44 degrees Celsius (0.8 degrees Fahrenheit).

In the 21st century, temperature is projected to rise even faster.

"Just because we think we know what the trend is right now, that doesnt mean it will stay on the same curve," said Chris Bright, coauthor of the Worldwatch report. "Were not very good at predicting the discontinuities."

Signs of melting are everywhere. In late 1991, hikers in the southwestern Alps discovered an intact human body protruding from a glacier. The man was apparently trapped by a storm some 5,000 years ago, and rapidly covered by ice and snow, remaining remarkably well preserved. In 1999, another body was found in a melting glacier in the Yukon Territory of western Canada.

"Our ancestors are emerging from the ice with a message for us," said Brown. "The Earth is getting warmer."

Rising temperatures are shrinking glaciers from the Peruvian Andes to the Swiss Alps. The two ice shelves on either side of the Antarctic peninsula are retreating. Over about a half century through 1997, the ice shelves lost 7,000 square kilometers (2,700 square miles) of ice.

Then, within a single year, the ice shelves lost another 3,000 square kilometers (1,160 square miles). Scientists attribute the accelerated rate melting to a regional temperature rise of about 2.5 degrees Celsius (4.5 degrees Fahrenheit) since 1940.

"Environmental decline is often seen as gradual and predictable, but if we assume this, we are sleepwalking through history," said Bright in the Worldwatch report. "As pressures on the Earths natural systems build, there may be some disconcerting surprises as trends interact, reinforcing each other and triggering abrupt changes."

In October 1998, Hurricane Mitch slammed into Central American and stalled there for more than a week. Mudslides obliterated entire villages, killing some 10,000 people. Half the population of Honduras was displaced, and the country lost 95 percent of its crops.

Bright says global warming and the more destructive storms associated with it may explain why Mitch was the fourth strongest hurricane to enter the Caribbean in the 20th century. However, much of the damage left by Mitch was triggered by deforestation. If trees had been gripping the soil on those hills, less mud would have slid precipitously down their slopes.

Another large scale example of trends reinforcing each other can be seen in the Amazon River Basin, where the forests are being weakened by logging and clearing for agriculture. Openings in the canopy let in more sunlight, which dries the forest floor and primes the area for fire. Fires sweep through the forest, damaging trees but leave many standing. These damaged trees drop more leaves and exhale less water, inviting more fire in what Bright calls a "fire feedback loop."

"A great deal of the damage is hidden beneath the forest canopy," Bright said. "Its kind of like a cancer. In its initial stages, you really cant see it."

The fire feedback loop is also affected by forces outside the region, such as higher temperatures and harsher weather brought on by greenhouse gas emissions. The worst burning, Bright points out, occurs in El Nino years - which are happening more frequently as temperatures rise. El Nino is a warming of the Eastern Pacific Ocean that results in climate changes around the world.

By burning large amounts of coal and oil, the U.S., China and other industrialized countries may, in effect, be burning the Amazon, Worldwatch warns.

"We have no way to repair these systems," said Bright. "Nature has no reset button."

Dr. Jane Lubchenco, a marine conservation biologist specializing in the consequences of global changes, spoke last month about the devastating changes happening in ecosystems worldwide. "Were changing the planet in unprecedented ways," said Lubchenco. "About one half to one third of the lands surface has been transformed. One third of commercial marine species are depleted or fully exploited. The functioning of these ecosystems in changing, sometimes dramatically."

Coral reefs, for example, are showing dramatic and unexpected impacts from both global warming and human actions. While warmer waters has allowed some corals to spread away from the equator, water that is too hot seems to be killing off some of the microscopic creatures on which corals feed, starving them to death.

Worldwatch urges action now to stem the tide of environmental catastrophe.

"We clearly need to step up the pace," Brown said. "We are running out of time. The decisions we make now will affect life on Earth for all time to come."

-- (Last=First@First.=Last), January 20, 2000.

Last = First

I don't think that your posts will get yanked over contrail posts :o)

I for one (as you can tell) see this as a serious problem that will impact people over time more than Y2K ever will.

We are like viruses on the earth, someday the earth will get real sick and produce a cleansing effect.

Guess who is in line for illimination from the system?

Jump into the car for a Big Mac anyone ?

-- Brian (imager@home.com), January 20, 2000.