Could the government "release" oil from the strategic reserve without the public being aware. An "emergency" bridge to cover shortfalls in production? What are your sources saying about supply demand now? Everything seems so full of rumour and nuance with very little substance. At some point in a business as clubby as oil (it seems to me being a total outsider) talk would leak out about serious supply problems or pirce moves higher than 30 dollars bbl.

Just looking for information or ideas from those who might be a little closer to the action.

Also been out the news loop for a while what's up with the references to Saudi's having new leadership? Faud (sp) handing the reigns over to others?

Thanks for any and all input?

Your's as always deep in the dark, Squidley.

-- Squid (ItsDark@down.here), January 19, 2000

Answers

My dear Mr. Squid

Sir it has been my understading for some time now. That the so-called stragetic reserve offers a lot of problems to the ol refiners (for one thing it has salt in it's compositional make up). And is hard for the refiners to crack into useable fuels.(they have to shut down their refineries and reconfigure for this type of oil).

And the amount of oil actally avaible is less than you might expect.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), January 19, 2000.

Squid,

gordon is an idiot.

-- (lighter@up.here), January 19, 2000.

Squid,

Hope you're wrong. Along the same vein as with personal preps, I would rather take my lumps on a national level with *full* oil reserves for true emergencies than to have a "well, we thought it would get better, and now we're tapped out" scenario unfold.

Anxious over this one,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.com), January 19, 2000.

You idiot. Those supplies have been sitting there for years and it's lucky if 30% is usable. Also it has to be refined. The oil is dog dootie to say the least.

-- HH (hh@home.com), January 19, 2000.

Squid,

I can confirm Shakey's post. Got relatives who worked at one refinery that got some of that SPR oil when some was released during Gulf war. It was a mess, and they don't EVER want to see anymore of that kind of oil. Just not set up to handle it.

-- RC (racambab@mailcity.com), January 19, 2000.

RC;

Can you be a BIT more specific about "It was a mess"???? My understanding from several aparently more knowledgeable than I was that the salt was a straw-man (I'm gonna have to think about ionic and non-ionic bonding to decide if the salt can actually disolve in crude).

Would it be more along the line of we stored some crude but it wasn't some of the best (understatement) and when we go to refine it the refineries need to be prepared for MUCH lower quality, fewer volatiles, MUCH heavier need to crack, etc???

Perhaps it falls into the catagory of working VERY hard to get not much out??

Apocryphal story- - have a friend whose job it is/was to test oils. Some of the hottest .mil pilots call him the Dark Angel. His job was to test engine oil samples (among others) and tell the people running those engines what was wrong (if anything) with them. He usaed to regularly make phone calls and have choppers grounded. Anyway he was talking about acouple tankers of crude from South America (I THINK) that had come in and been released to refineries and the refineries weren't getting ANY volatiles off of it. They sent samples of the "crude" to him and he ran the usual observation tests, and figgered they had lied to him because the stuff looked like crude, smelled like crude, tasted like crude, had the right specific gravity, the right color, consistency, etc. for it to be crude. When he truly tested it, SOMEONE had stripped out the volatiles, and treated the resulting "stuff" so that it passed for crude.

As I said, an apocryphal story.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 19, 2000.

Chuck,

I don't remember the exact details now. I asked about that again last year and as I recall the oil was indeed very heavy but the primary problem was "dirty" or "excessive debris" and the system had to be reconfigured and afterwards required a turnaround, which nobody in refineries enjoys...lots of long hours, essentially a royal pain.

-- RC (racambab@mailcity.com), January 19, 2000.

I am not sure how asking a questions qualifies me for the title idiot. Having been at the operating end of burning oil in all types of grades I am reminded of the problems maintaining combustion of any oil that has high solids or water content. I can see where the oil that is stored as strategic reserve might better qualify as a waste-crude hybrid.

I was wondering if it would be possible to suppliment the normal supply if TPTB wished to sugar coat supply problems while at the same time maintaining a business as usual facade.

Thanks for all the input and leave the name-calling to grade school please.

-- Squid (ItsDark@down.here), January 19, 2000.

I believe ALL oil comes in contact with salt. Oil pockets are normally riding on a brine layer, and getting rid of the brine is one of the routine problems in drilling. Now they just pump it back into the ground, in a well that no longer gives oil.

When I was in Louisiana some years back, there was a rumor that toxic wastes were being disposed of by blending into oil going into the SPR. Nobody was grading it on the way in, because it was just going into the SPR, after all. And on the way out, well heck, it's an emergency, so nobody's going to question it. Bites ya both ways.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), January 19, 2000.

Squid,

It was not a dumb question at all. The SPR issue was raised several times last year on the forum though, so it's not actually a new topic to the forum, but your question was certainly relevant to the issue. Glad you raised it.

All of that having been said, it will be interesting to see just how much the Feds would have to discount SPR as an incentive to refiners but I suspect no one will be too interested. I know of a few folks that said if their refinery were to get SPR, they'd just as soon go on a long vacation and avoid the mess afterwards.

-- RC (racambab@mailcity.com), January 19, 2000.