OT - FBI/Indian standoff at Pine Ridge Rez!

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Second thread cut and paste to get there- - -

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002LoM

Inserted with Rev Thunderlight's permission

To my family here on TB2000;

I know this may be way off-topic to many of you, but it directly affects me and many of the residents of the Native American housing complex I operate.

*******************************************************************

Subject: URGENT!/FBI-Indian standoff; Pine Ridge Rez! Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:18:17 +0000 From: "NewsHawk Inc." Organization: NewsHawk Inc.

1.16.00 URGENT!/FBI-Indian standoff; Pine Ridge Rez!

Forward this message as far and widely as possible

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Feds are putting major heat on a group of Indians at the Pine Ridge reservation who were attempting to demonstrate against corruption and malfeasance within the heavily fed-infiltrated "official" tribal council there.

The FBI is said to have been on the scene "INSTANTLY". In light of the TOTAL media blackout enforced by feds in regard to this situation, there are serious concerns on the part of Native Americans and others of some kind of severe, Waco-style tactics being employed at Pine Ridge.

It's crucial to help ensure that eventuality can never come to pass; and to do that, we must get the word out regarding what's going on at Pine Ridge right now. So PLEASE, help.

NewsHawk. Inc. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: News Flash! FBI/Indian standoff at Pine Ridge Rez! Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:26:15 -0800 From: "Jane Beckman" To:

Here's one that's in-process! I just received a call from one of my Native American friends, and things have gone critical on the Pine Ridge Reservation. At 2 pm today (Sunday, 1/16), protestors occupied the tribal offices on the Pine Ridge reservation, protesting abuses and embezzlement by the Tribal Council, including $7 million in embezzled funds.

Suddenly, the FBI is there like a duck on a june bug. They are attempting to get word out as fast and as widely as possible, as there has been a media lockdown, and there is a standoff between the Feds and the Indian protestors that could get very ugly. There are fears of Waco-type actions, especially with the media lockdown. They want this one put out far and wide, to hopefully get some attention before something turns very ugly.

The phone number for the tribal offices building where these folks are standing off the Feds is (605)867-5821. I've been told they can keep folks apprised of what is going on... at least until the phones get cut. I haven't called simply because I hear some of the local activists are calling, folks who might be able to do more than I can in California.

Something is up, because the FBI isn't usually at scenes of conflicts so instantly. Could it have something to do with records they are attempting to have opened, relative to corruption on the reservation? What's really going on, here?

Dr. Rev. Michael ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000

Answers

Your prayers that this can be resolved quickly and without bloodshed would be greatly appreciated.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


I just spoke with a family friend who lives on Pine Ridge rez, and he said that there were some neutral parties who are trying to negotiate a peaceful resolution. We will join in your prayers that there will not be another Wounded Knee.

-- (snoozin@no.more), January 17, 2000.

Thanks snoozin ...

My info is similar, but was told that things are REAL tense. A lot of scared families in S.D. and elsewhere at moment.

An emergency meeting of medicine elders here has just been called, I may be joining them in an hour or so ... will keep all informed as I can.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Rev. ThunderLight,

Thanks for bringing this to the forum's attention. Please keep us advised of developments as you become aware of them. The historical precedent for abuse of authority accompanying media blackouts is frightening in this situation. Prayers are sent out to the demonstrators, their families, and community.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), January 17, 2000.


Thank you for taking the time to tell us about what is happening. We will hope and pray that all ends quickly and peacefully.

-- suzy (suzy@nowhere.com), January 17, 2000.


I wonder if the U.N. will start bombing to "protect" the Kosovars, excuse me, I mean Indians?

-- A (A@AisA.com), January 17, 2000.

Thanks y'all ... you're the greatest ... I'm off to the meeting, will be back online soon as it is over. Will update as soon and as much as I can then.

Blessings, Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


We're right here with you Rev. You just tell us what you need.

-- semper paratus (still_here_with@my.pals), January 17, 2000.

Strong thoughts and prayers for a safe outcome. However, there can be NO peace without justice. Drudgereport has an article on the Jan. 20 coming "bloodred" moon of the lunar eclipse. Note in particular at the bottom of the article Matt is carrying from Reuters. And the last paragraph that states that Columbus used the phenomenon of the "red" lunar eclipse to mislead the indigenous people he encountered. Fast forward half a millenium... Several "blood red" and "sackcloth" lunar eclipses of the past few years have occurred directly over Jerusalem. And fallen precisely on major feast days of the Jewish Calendar. Per past editions of the Farmer's Almanac

3 April 1996 = Feast of Passover

26/27 Sept 1996 = Eve of the Feast of the Tabernacles

23 March 1997 = Purim

16 Sept 1997 = Days of Teshura

Note Book of Rev. 6:12 "...and the moon became as blood..."

First came the WTO backlash... Later this month are the UN sponsored Bio-Safety Protocols to be held in Montreal with Europe. To focus on America's genetically modified foods, i.e. Frankenfoods. Expect some sparks. Example of the new(wo) math: Novartis = Ritalin + Bt GM corn. Earth is out of balance. America will not tolerate another Waco. And certainly not at Pine Ridge. No more Leonard Peltier's! Never again. And no bending down upon wounded knees either. Aim high for the truth. May the Great Spirit guide all the nations with wisdom and courage.

Peace Brother Thunderlight and the blessings to the ancestors!

-- Nokomis (manatou@gitchegummee.com), January 17, 2000.


Rev, I will pray through the night. I've also forwarded your note to inform other folks of what's going on there. If your e-mail address here is not real, then please post a real one in this thread. You can get one for free at www.hotmail.com

It's important for folks to keep communications open now, and this forum is not effective if anyone has urgent info they need to send in private (I don't have info, wish I did, but incase someone reading has info that would help you).

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 17, 2000.



Rev Thunderlight,

The net is a powerful tool and good armour.

"And the last paragraph that states that Columbus used the phenomenon of the "red" lunar eclipse to mislead the indigenous people he encountered."

======================================================================

I heard that he and his crew were marooned in Jamaica on the fourth return voyage - natch the rastas wouldn't feed the spaniards - so he looked up the next eclips in his almanac and then made a "prediction" to the natives that he could make the moon go out... or something like that... they got fed...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 17, 2000.


Greetings my family;

First, I would like to express my profound thanks to the support and love all of you are sharing. The families here who have relatives there tell me to tell you the same from them. Several are gathered here at moment.

<<<<< FAMILY HUGS >>>>> to ALL of you from ALL of us!

Second, an update - According to Martina Lookinghorse, who is there at Pine Ridge and is kin to several inside the Pine Ridge Reservation Tribal Building - the situation is dire, and deteriorating fast. FBI is making many threatening moves onsite. There is great fear of violent attack by FBI on the Tribal Building where the protestors are barricaded inside.

Third, a request from onsite - spread this information far and wide - and as fast as you can ... news organizations all over would be wonderful. FBI is doing everything they can to prevent word getting out ...

Fourth, I have a hotmail account already established. If you send me a message, I will reply as fast as I can.

sun_wolf13@hotmail.com - I sure hope I did that mail link right! :-)

A very tired, but very greatful,

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


BTW: News organizations can call number in the original post ... it is a direct line inside the Tribal Building, please do not tie up the line ... :-)

I also have home phone number for Martina ... will share in private messages if needed.

noww ... coffee .... I NEED more coffee ...

Luv ya guys and gals!

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Good luck and our prayers.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.com), January 17, 2000.


Just got this in a message - provides the background material:

-------------------------

International News Coverage of Pine Ridge Takeover

As of late Sunday night, 7amNews is the only international news organization covering the Pine Ridge takeover. The 7amNews article appears below.

An American Indian reservation visited by President Bill Clinton during a July "poverty tour" erupted in unrest Sunday as dissidents alleging financial malfeasance took over the tribal government complex.

More than 100 people were involved in the peaceful takeover of the Oglala Sioux Tribal headquarters on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota, traditional leader Dale Looks Twice told 7amNews. He said that those involved in the takeover are asking for a federal audit of millions of dollars in tribal monies that"never reached the people."

Elected officials have been "cashing in on our people," Looks Twice declared. He pointed out that the Pine Ridge Reservation has more than 80 per cent unemployment and "for the last 20 years has been the poorest county" in the U.S.

FBI officials removed records and computers relating to programs administered by the tribal housing program, Looks Twice said. That investigation has been ongoing for months, he noted.

The occupation will continue until all issues are resolved, he said. Among them: demands for the the restoration of lands known as the Buffalo Gap grasslands and the removal of the tribal treasurer, as well as a review of the tribe's constitution and other documents.

Clinton visited the reservation in July as part of his anti-poverty initative. At that time, he promoted an increase in HUD and Fannie Mae housing programs. Ironically, it is those programs that now are among those being investigated for possible improper financial dealings. Also under fire: the handling of a $7.8 million program for law enforcement, which, despite funding, on Friday laid off 60 tribal law enforcement workers.

copyright 2000 ... 7amNews 7am.com

Note: This material is being provided as a courtesy from the 7amNews US Correspondent, a native writer, and it is requested that the article not be altered or added to in any way and that full credit and copyright notice be included as it appears at the end of the article. As 7amNews is a "breaking news" agency that covers the entire globe, it is impossible to guarantee at what time or for how long this article, or any other, will appear.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.



story has already been pulled off their website! :-(

these (as Kelly Bundy would say) FeeBee guys move FAST when they wanna!

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Joining the prayers for you...

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), January 17, 2000.

Any new ideas/news ect? Let me know if you need anything.

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), January 17, 2000.

A large mob of on-lookers might be helpful. Let's call Sherrif Dave Mattis in Bighorn County, Wy.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), January 17, 2000.

Rev. ThunderLight --

Please keep us advised to ongoing developments.

Our prayers are with your people. God Bless.

-- Lurkess (Lurkess@Lurking.Net), January 17, 2000.


---I have the 7am news as part of my site. As of 9:40 eastern am the story is still there. This whole reservation/corruption thing is on going, many nations, and never gets resolved, just keeps getting passed around from agency to court to oblivion. the reason the fibbies are there so dang quick is that any true freedom movement that has shown a willingness to actually physically defend themselves against corruption and malfeasance is a #1 threat to the big money that controls this country, so they send in their paramilitary enforcers EL PRONTO. You don't see the same willingness to really LOOK and ACT on the complaints, just come down hard on the complaintants whenever years and years of trying to do it legally and being ignoried and stymied give them no other option. "Just following orders" is still the status quo regarding which "laws" are enforced or not. Big money interests="follow orders", plain people with a serious grievance=no big deal,ignore them forever.

People wonder why "law enforcement" of all flavors enjoys less and less support in this country.

-- zog (zzoggy@yahoo.com), January 17, 2000.


Everyone, listen to Alex Jones 12 noon EST. I don't wanna call into the show and tie up the line if Rev. Thunderlight and other members of his nation are calling. But if they aren't getting air time, we ALL need to call!!!!!!!!

This show is online, satellite, and shortwave, and has over a million listeners around the world.

url's:

Alex Jones:

www.infowars.com

Broadcast station, which has shows all day which should be called about this horrible event:

http://gcnlive.2z.net/

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 17, 2000.


BTW, Alex Jones is the loudest mouth I know of, which speaks against mil/gov actions which he considers illegal or immoral. He is a huge supporter of getting the truth out about Waco. He will be mad as hell when he hears about this, and will be able to organize folks, or support local activists with national networks and media coverage.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 17, 2000.

Osiyo, all.

Here is a KELO, Sioux Falls, brief news item concerning Pine Ridge.

Tohidu-

Two Hawks

The Tsalagi remain watchful

http://www.kelotv.com/News/Detail.cfm?ID=2521&NewsSet=HomePage

-- Two Hawks (etowah59@tripod.com), January 17, 2000.


Two Hawks, that 1/16 article says the meeting with the FBI was scheduled for 10am 1/17. Rev. Thunderlight's source gave the impression the FBI showed up unannounced, ready to play "hard ball". Words like Waco and dire, deteriorating... Why is your link so different in attitude? Were the Tribal PTB going behind the Tribe's back with the feds, and so they controlled this article? I just don't get the discrepancy between your link and that of Rev. Thunderlight.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 17, 2000.

Hokie, Ga li e li ga, I am grateful, that you notice this discrepancy. Posted it to add this to the conversation and the witness of the so-called "news."

We are watchful, that is the best we can do today to support our brethren and sistern of the Oglala.

Hawks

-- Two Hawks (etowah59@tripod.com), January 17, 2000.


Two Hawks,

The Tsalagi headquarters have been advised. Local newspaper is trying to find more info. We had our own little problem with feds a couple of years ago...

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), January 17, 2000.


Thanks Hokie and Hawks ....:-) HUGS

Update - I just got off the phone with Pine Ridge ... FBI sent in two 'negotiators' for a meeting. News story was accurate ... however the heavy equipment is still in place.

The Ogalala Tribe is gathering ... overnight, before the FBI could establish a secure perimeter, the number of people inside the tribal building rose from about a dozen to well over 200.

Folks this may get WAY ugly yet.

Hokie - you're contact information has been passed on ... the onsite "Monitoring Take-over" leader sends his personal thanks.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Rev. Thunderlight,

That makes me feel good, thank you for passing on the "MTO" leader's remark:)

Also suggest, video video video everything...even if a kid has to climb a tree to sneak shots. What heavy equipment is there? Take pictures of all the "FBI" personnel, cause at Waco Delta Force wore FBI black, but it is unclear whether their black lacked the FBI emblem. If you have black uniforms in the mix with no agency logo, you are in BIG trouble. If someone has a digital camera and can scope out some shots of any equipment and personnel, please get it online quick. As soon as a roll is filled, have someone run it off grounds to safety, even if the photographer remains to get more shots.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 17, 2000.


Guess I better clarify some info about the meeting ....

Sources inside the building have informed me that apparently the FBI scheduled the meeting last night, then informed the protestors about it early this morning. Metting was scheduled to last from 10am until 1:30pm Central.

I will get an update on progress as soon as meeting is over.

BTW - take a look at the last sentence of the 7am News article about tribal law enforcement ... was informed that that was part of the set-up, take away locals, gave feds quote "easier access and more control" end quote.

more to follow!

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


PS--remember, "If it isn't documented, it DIDN'T happen."

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 17, 2000.

Hokie - I am on other side of WY from the scene ... but will pass on your 'excellent' suggestion soon as meeting is over.

Only thing I was specifically told about nature of fed onsite presence is at least one FeeBee Sw*T team. Beyond that, I have no personal knowledge.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


My blessings and prayers go out to you and yours Dr. Thunderlight and may God rain abundant blessings of strength and courage upon you all during this tribulation. Please keep us updated.

-- (Vincent @manof.God), January 17, 2000.

Any description of the "Heavy Equipment?" Remember to pass on the credo "SALUTE"
S, SIZE
A, ACTIVITY
L, LOCATION
U, UNIFORM
T, TIME
E, EQUIPMENT
Any info you can give might help to determine who exactly you are going up against, and how well planned/set up they were for this issue. (IE if they got M-2 Bradley AFV already on scene, then somebody was expecting this and planned for it...)

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), January 17, 2000.

Hokie - the one point of humor in this so far .... the state tree of SD is the telephone pole ... LoL

Ever see pictures of the Badlands of South Dakota? About the only vegetation around is scrub and sage bushes.

But I did call a contact in area and passed on idea. They are going to see what they can do. Said if nothing else, and if anything out of the ordinary IS present, they will send me either the exposed rolls or copies of prints ASAP ... If so, I will get them to someone appropriate.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Great advise Billy Boy! You're a good man.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 17, 2000.

...so "Pine Ridge" has pine poles then I guess. That is amusing. Good job organizing Rev! Thanks for keeping us all updated.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 17, 2000.

Billy - I second Hokie's remark ... Thanks my friend.

yep, I sure do remember the old SALUTE report ... already passed it on.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


I'll get on the LL to some of my contacts down in 'SpecOpLand' and see if there's any word of anything brewing. I'll also call my lil' brother in DeeCee. (He's Secret Service and has a line on the Beltway fed law enforcement intel circle)

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), January 17, 2000.

Thanks Billy - my e-mail addy is above.

my AF background! :-)

"First There - Last Out"

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


This will help fill in the picture...

From: SumerWCree@aol.com "Red Road Newletter" (send email to subscribe)

(Fair use only....)

Feds seize records at Pine Ridge http://fox7.blackhills.com/news2.htm Federal agents were at the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation Sunday, to seize records at the tribal housing office. Paper files and computer records reportedly were collected from the Oglala Sioux Housing Authority. U.S. attorney Ted McBride says a search warrant was executed, on behalf of the department housing and urban development. McBride says the investigation is related to a probe of the administration of programs, funded by HUD. However, he would not say what led to the investigation or what the agents were looking for.

Copyright 2000 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Story by: Associated Press

Takeover at Pine Ridge http://fox7.blackhills.com/news3.htm According to the Oglala Sioux Tribe's public information office, a grassroots group took control of the tribal office 2:00pm Sunday afternoon. As of 10:00 Sunday night, information officer Eileen Janis says the group, which is unarmed, has control of the tribal office and has nine demands, including the removal of the travel officer. But, Janis says travel treasurer Chuck Jacobs already has received a letter, which states he'd been suspended of his duties. According to the Pine Ridge Police Chief Barney Whiteface, there is the possibility nearly 60 police officers, on the reservation, will be laid off on Tuesday. Janis says that's due to funding problems. The grassroot's groups spokesman, Dale Whiteface, says the reason for the peaceful takeover is to bring attention to alleged corruption within the tribe. Police Chief Whiteface says police officers are continuing to monitor the situation. Meanwhile, Lookstwice says the group is scheduled to meet with the FBI Monday morning.

Story by: Lenka Gerrish Reprinted under the Fair Use http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html doctrine of international copyright law. <><<<<<>>>>><><<<<> Tsonkwadiyonrat (We are ONE Spirit) http://www.tdi.net/ishgooda/

-- Steve Meyers (SMeyers33@aol.com), January 17, 2000.


Brother Thunderlight, KELO link mentions "9 Demands" being made by the Sioux. Think counter-press release! If *true*, post their list in order to show that the Oglala are making reasonable requests for audit and intervention, preferably to be conducted by 3rd party. The minxed media is consumed with the Gonzalez citizenship faux dilemma.Like the year we lost looking at Nicole Simpson's battered ex-wife photos. The next one we spent gazing at poor Jon Benet's luridly made up face. And the year after that obsessed with Monica's cigar/dress. They will NOT pay attention until blood is spilled, i.e. "their viewer ratings threshold criteria is met". Very dangerous situation. Many, many prayers. The Sioux are a most brave and worthy people and did not deserve the apartheid treatment they have endured these past 20 years at Pine Ridge. Americans in their deep hearts core know the truth of these words. Make sure the world hears what they are crying! Yours in the Ghost Dance...

-- Nokomis (manitou@gitchegummee.com), January 17, 2000.

Thanks Steve;

to fill in gaps in the story Steve just posted - the original search warrant on Tribal Housing was issued and served based upon allegations of misuse of Fed HUD monies. Non-Natives were getting housing subsidies for homes in Sioux Falls, SD that were earmarked specifically for enrolled members of the Ogalala tribe.

The families who were illegally given this funding are related to several of the extremely wealthy non-Native landowners who have seized financial control over most of the land and resources of the Pine Ridge Rez. Apparently, a few of these private landowners found a loop-hole in the requirements for gaining entry onto the Tribal Council and have been using this as a means for self-gain.

The Pine Ridge HUD 'scandal' is just the tip of the iceberg. It has also been confirmed that the same 'book cooking' has been applied to almost every aspect of tribal funding and operations ... and all going into a relatively few pockets, all from same couple of families.

Ongoing update:

Sources now tell me that the FBI may well be doing a complete about face. Apparently one of the FBI agents involved in the negotiations meeting has a degree in business and agrees the the tribe's accounting books (that the 'protestors' were trying to protect) are severely cooked. This particular agent has stated in a phone conversation with one of his bosses during the meeting that these protestors may in fact be heros!

Also news just in - reason for the take-over revealed ... apparently, at least one of the land-owners who have gained a seat on the Council was intending to enter the Tribal Building last night to destroy these financial records. Word of his intent got out - and the grassroot group got there first and took over the building to protect the records.

No word yet whether the recommendations from the agent will be applied. The agents outside are still VERY tense ... situation is still very volatile.

Keep them prayers going y'all.

more to follow!

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Someone with a little more time than I have at the moment want to do me a favor and search the FOX network website. See if they are carrying anything from Steve's post ... or on their channel 7 affiliate in Sioux Falls' site and look for me ... PLEASE ????

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.

Only things listed are the same two stories listed earlier at the FOX affiliate KEVN-TV: (For Fair Educational Use Yaddayadda)
(AP) Takeover at Pine Ridge
According to the Oglala Sioux Tribe's public information office, a grassroots group took control of the tribal office 2:00pm Sunday afternoon. As of 10:00 Sunday night, information officer Eileen Janis says the group, which is unarmed, has control of the tribal office and has nine demands, including the removal of the travel officer. But, Janis says travel treasurer Chuck Jacobs already has received a letter, which states he'd been suspended of his duties. According to the Pine Ridge Police Chief Barney Whiteface, there is the possibility nearly 60 police officers, on the reservation, will be laid off on Tuesday. Janis says that's due to funding problems. The grassroot's groups spokesman, Dale Whiteface, says the reason for the peaceful takeover is to bring attention to alleged corruption within the tribe. Police Chief Whiteface says police officers are continuing to monitor the situation. Meanwhile, Lookstwice says the group is scheduled to meet with the FBI Monday morning
and then there's the latest:
(AP)Feds seize records at Pine Ridge
Federal agents were at the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation Sunday, to seize records at the tribal housing office. Paper files and computer records reportedly were collected from the Oglala Sioux Housing Authority. U.S. attorney Ted McBride says a search warrant was executed, on behalf of the department housing and urban development. McBride says the investigation is related to a probe of the administration of programs, funded by HUD. However, he would not say what led to the investigation or what the agents were looking for. Copyright 2000 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. Story by: Associated Press

Also, nothing hot from SpecOps Kids that they have heard. And according to Lil Brother, Seems that The Feds in DeeCee are more scared on how this is going to affect Algore and His Election chances, seeing how ineptly the entire affair is being handled. (The fact that 'Bubba' was there promising to 'save' y'all a while back really seems to underline the vast levels of corruption in his administration! "Lookee here...her's a group o' folk we ain't screwed yet!" Seems that the feds wanted to move 'quick and quiet' but your Local Boys beat them to the punch, and blew the proverbial lid open. From what LBro said, as long as it's an unarmed group on nonhostiles, it should end real good.
Best of luck and Keep us informed! Blessings...

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), January 17, 2000.

Thanks Billy - will pass on.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.

Thanks for the good news Rev. Thunderlight and Billy Boy! Guess the Algore agenda would explain the media's absence. I hope that phone call recognizing the heroism of the protesters is the theme through the rest of this incident!!!

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 17, 2000.

Last word is negociations are still going on. No answer from the phone at the occupied Tribal Council building---is communicaitn cut?

Things are looking more hopeful. Harold Saldway (sorry if this name or spelling is mangled--got off phone), who was with the occupiers overnight, has left building and has gone to negociations to get government independant investigators.

Jane

-- Jane Beckman (jilara@best.com), January 17, 2000.


Y'all - Jane is the original source of information on this situation. I invited her to post any information and updates as the situation progresses.

Thanks Jane.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Wow, thanks for the breaking news Rev. and Jane. I keep passing along your reports to potentially concerned parties. The FBI agent saying the demonstrators may be heroes could be a "good cop/bad cop" sort of ploy. Hopefully not, and the guy is completely on the level.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), January 17, 2000.

RUOK - Guess we will find out when Harold returns from Rapid City.

In the meantime, gonna have to listen and watch closely the events back at the Tribal Building.

Like many, I still want to know what 'equipment' the feebee has onsite.

Hopefully, Jane will get back to us with more details.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


My prayers are with you and all of the people. Have sent this page on to as many as I can think of who may be able to help. Again, saying many prayers for you.

----justme

-- justme (justme@myhouse.com), January 17, 2000.


From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

Synchronize all timekeeping equipment on the Atomic Clock, particularly any still photographic, video equipment and computers. Start a manual log, preferably in a bound blank book. Log the list of clocks that are synchronized. Then, timestamp, photograph and log everything. Take baseline photographs. Whenever you're able to bring in additional people and equipment, include cameras and massive amounts of film for the cameras that you already have. Digital cameras will allow you to get your pictures online, so long as you have electricity.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 17, 2000.


The Pine Ridge story is now on the New York Times site, as an AP item

Story

Hawks

-- Two Hawks (etowah59@tripod.com), January 17, 2000.


Thank you for the update Two Hawks, that is good news.

Aho!

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Latest on-site update:

Just got off the phone with one of the tribal leaders. The meeting that started at 10am this morning is still going on. Tempers are very hot inside the building, a great deal of yelling and screaming. The feebee allowed the local tribal radio station to set up a remote broadcast site inside the building, so the meeting is being broadcast live through-out the rez.

From what I was told, most of the adults of the rez are now outside the cordoned off area around the Tribal Building. Tempers are flaring there as well. Many small individual incidents between FeeBee and Security Units and 'spectators.'

Was told that there are a lot of large gov trucks ... but no one is allowed close enough to find out what is in them. All outside FeeBee and Security personnel are wearing riot gear and are heavily armed.

No additional new info is available at this time.

They are going to call me as soon as the meeting adjourns and I will post another update at that time, unless circumstances warrant an earlier notice.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


BAD NEWS:

The Treasurer that the people are rying to get removed and set this whole protest off just went on the local radio station - announced he had put together an 'armed force' who are going to retake the Tribal Building by 'any means necessary.'

The FeeBee's are going to pull out and allow this to happen! "Reason - it is an internal matter."

It has just gone from a peaceful protest to the beginnings of a violent confrontation!

Journalists and Reporters reading this - the phone number to the Tribal Building is (605) 867-5821.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Just got this from J.J. Johnson. He's frustrated because he's not getting the scoop, and he's a good ally to have...

So, I get a phone call at 2:00 am PT, waking me up about this. They give me a phone number to call. I give them a ring, and they verified everything. I ask them for any documentation, a web site, or just e-mail their demands, and I would help spread the word. Just a place where I could point to their side of the story. I was put on hold three times, giving my e-mail address and phone & fax # each time, only to be told that I would receive a fax shortly.

I'm still waiting for it. I lost a night's sleep over this.

I have called back several times, but receive no answer.

If you have direct contact with these people, please tell them that J.J. Johnson of the SierraTimes.com news service never got any information after spending about a half hour with them on the phone. I waited up all night. I would love a call back and an update. I hate when the AP beats us to getting news.

I'd love to help them, but it is a two-way street. I gotta a pretty big list here and a news web site if needed.

J.J. Johnson

J.J. Johnson Sleepy Newshound

-- Jane Beckman (jilara@best.com), January 17, 2000.


The situation is tense, but peaceful...I emphasize peaceful (as of 9:00 PM EST..I just called and spoke with the people in the office there. They will be hoping to get out a press release sometime this evening. Please stop the wild speculations, it helps no one and creates even more tension. Thank you, Ishgooda, Editor Native News

-- Ishgooda (owner-NativeNews@mLists.net), January 17, 2000.

Ishgooda;

I pray all is well there. My contact there has been in a panic the last half hour or so since the radio announcement that the building would be retaken by any means necessary. I do not doubt that it is peaceful at moment. I pray it stays that way.

Any additional information that you can post would be greatly appreciated by the many lurkers.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Ishgooda, We're all praying for a peaceful resolution. It's currently 7:30 on the west coast, which means it's probably 9:30 at Pine Ridge. I just got off the phone. This is word from on site but outside the cordon. My contact says that the police scanner report is that all police have been called to the tribal offices. Phones are curently not being answered inside.

I only hope that the energy and attention focused on this will keep things from spinning out of control. And I know I'm going to prayfor peaceful resolution, since this started out as a peaceful takeover.

Jane

-- Jane Beckman (jilara@best.com), January 17, 2000.


Forwarded from private email:

Just sent this to sight@end of.nowhere. It bounce back, so I'm sending it here...

I was the one who called at 3:00 am this morning to help spread the word. I was requested to and gave a phone, fax # and e-mail address. I waited all night for information. To his point, I have only received a greenspun.com URL to read the postings (From Jane Beckman). They have no date or time stamps, so it's hard to tell what message was posted when.

Please place me on your direct contact list for further updates.

We have a large number of subscribers to our e-mail alert list and we want your side of the Story before it's too late.

Thank you,

J.J. Johnson - 775.727.0627 you can call collect. Fax 775.727-0645 e-mail citizen@mindspring.com -----------------------------

Phone word is that Chuck Jacobs has said that he will take back the tribal offices by tomorrow at latest. Those on site believe it will be tonight. The general belief is phones are not being answered because the lines are blocked. Radio broadcasts of negociations, etc. have ceased, so informaiton form that source is nolonger available. Hold your breath, cross your fingers, and pray for peaceful resolution.

Jane

-- Jane Beckman (jilara@best.com), January 17, 2000.


Double BAD news:

I have gotten three e-mails in last 10 minutes from three different individuals stating that their posts to various websites and/or newsgroups have been deleted almost immediately in reference to the ongoing events in Pine Ridge. Here is one as an example:

**********

Couldn't get it posted!!!!!!!!!!! Apparently they are monitoring the web....there were several other articles about it to be posted..and they mysteriously disappeared.........Strange...will keep trying ... could get bad there if this be the case.

May the Great Spirit be with the people this night.

BV

**********

I pray TPTB do not hit this forum next ... those of you who are paying attention to this thread need to let those who aren't know what is going on. Proof of some of the long standing allegations about what is going on behind the scenes at the hands of TPTB are bearing fruit tonight.

As BV stated so eloquently, "May the Great Spirit (God, Creator) be with the people tonight.

Aho!

Dr. Rev. Michael ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


There have been several mentions of bounces that have come my way, too. I hope no one is disabling list contact...

I was asked for forward this. ------------------------------- Hi, Please post this...thanks!

Just talked with Martina Looking Horse in Green Grass...several have asked what is behind the occupation..the news has carried information about the occupation without stating the bottom line. John just did.

This is an effort to overthrow the 1934 Wheeler act which declared the people incompetent to manage their own affairs and put into place an office to handle them called the BIA and its corrupt system of government. Cheyenne River is watching closely and sending support as well as Rosebud. If this succeeds they will be an independent fully sovereign nation with rights to independently make treaties with other nations around the world on their own merits free of the US and its imposed system. I told her prayers were going out from all over for their success...and how important it is for other nations watching that this be handled well...because it is a movement that has the potential to spread like wildfire across this land. Eradicate the BIA...and do it from the ground up..grass roots.

Martina spoke, as an activist who is afraid to live on her own reservation because of threats and harassment she has received in her opposition to the tribal council She says there is one 93 year old grandmother caring for her great grand children on her SSI pension, they get 30$ a month in food stamps for each kid..that is all..and the kids parents go out and drink because there are no jobs and under the present system there is no hope. this occupation IS the hope of the future..strong independent nations whose leaders say what can I do to help you? Not, live in expensive homes and retire on pensions and then say to people eating beans every night, "sorry, there is no money for you." Leaders who help the young people to get housing, not two and three families to a house with no running water and the council that builds housing for their own families on their own land with the funding received from the BIa that should have gone to the people.

this is what this is about...it is about true sovereignty...make the spark ignite throughout the nations on this continent!

Ishgooda

-- Jane Beckman (jilara@best.com), January 17, 2000.


From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

Do a web search on Echelon.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 17, 2000.


Another dangerous revelation:

**********************************************************************

Subject: Gov Bush: American Indians 'Not Sovereign'!!!

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:39:07 +0000

From: "NewsHawk Inc."

Organization: NewsHawk Inc.

1.17.00

Gov. Bush Declares American Indian Nations 'Not Sovereign'!!!

This from the airhead "presidential" "candidate" who several months ago couldn't even name ONE out of 4 national leaders of 4 countries in then-current hot-spot regions: the one and only, the inimitable coke-addled, goofball governor of Texas; G. "Dubya" Bush.

Somebody get this LOSER a history book, for God's sake!! (Guess "Dubya" slept through that term, too... .)

GOD HELP US if--through some extraordinary efforts (including such things as massive voter fraud/tampering) on the part of certain inconceivably wealthy, malignant, misanthropic and generally VERY dangerous people--this moron actually becomes the next President of the U.S.!!! Obviously, for Native Americans the situation would be even more disastrous if dweeb Dubya were to be President.

NewsHawk. Inc.

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Subject: Bush's View on Sovereignty Status Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:24:19 EST From:

John- I thought I'd pass this on to you.

Recently in the GLIFWC News, MASINAIGAN,

George W. Bush has DENIED sovereign status of Indian nations. The following is a complete reprint of the article published in the Winter 1999-2000 issue:

Indian Tribes should be subject to state law, says Republican presidential candidate and Texas Gov. George W. Bush.

Either ignorant or unmindful of hundreds of years of treaties, the U.S. Constitution and several Supreme Court decisions, Bush denied the sovereign status of Indian Nations.

"My view is that state law reigns supreme when it comes to the Indians, whether it be gambling or any other issue," Bush said during a recent campaign swing in New York State. Tribal leaders were incredulous. "[Only] the federal government has the authority," said Mark Emery, a spokesman for the Oneida Nation.

So PLEASE spread the word. It seems our sovereignty may be in some sort of danger if this fool gets elected.

Thank you

Fredina L. Drye Kansas University Indigenous Nations Studies Program 215 Fraser Hall Lawrence KS 66045 (785) 864-2660 insp@raven.cc.ukans.edu http://www.ukans.edu/~insp

**********************************************************************

TPTB are really showing their hand tonight.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Dancr

I for one am familiar with Echelon ... tonight they are revealing it for what it is ... Spread the word ... this is getting nasty.

We are ALL at risk.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Where is the National Coverage of these actions?

Am I not viewing the right channel?

-- zeaal (zeaal@wondering.mind.spring.com), January 17, 2000.


Updates -

recent e-mail:

**********************************************************************

Date: 1/17/2000 10:01:10 PM Eastern Standard Time From: (Bettye) ozark1@alltel.net (ozark1) To: Tndothb@aol.com

Dot, I just spoke with a person there. I am part indian myself and have friends on the reservation. I was told by "Talking Leaves" that there are clo se to 200 feds there and are in riot gear and armored vehicles. The treasurer has intentions of returning tonight to the tribal bldg. with armed guard. There are blocks on several groups...I could not notify anyone. Apparently some of our freedom sites are being heavily monitored!! Not only was my message alert stopped but so were others that were posting information. Pray for these people!!! This cannot be another Ruby Ridge or Wounded Knee or Waco. These people have had their money stolen from them. They are in poverty as it is..The treasurer is white..I understand that they found a loophole in the treaty of 1834 and the whites have moved in to take over the reservation.

**********************************************************************

message 2:

SierraTimes.com is now active.

we will be updating the site throughout the evening and monitoring the ongoing events of Pine Ridge, SD as they occur.

Tune in here:

http://www.SierraTimes.com

J.J. Johnson

**********************************************************************

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 17, 2000.


Has there been any response from AIM on this event?

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), January 17, 2000.

Rev. ThunderLight, I don't understand where the National media is! Some e-mails linking to this thread have been sent to Matt Drudge today, as this is the kind of story he usually jumps on. Has anyone posted this story at Free Republic? There are National media contacts/reporters who monitor and post on that site. This needs media attention on a larger scale to assist in peaceful resolution.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), January 17, 2000.

Zeaal - there is a total news blackout in effect - which is why all the internet and wire news services are getting their info from this thread.

Tom - AIM has reps onsite.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

I am going to repost this thread to my own webspace without linking from there to here or vice versa. If anybody who has already posted here objects, please contact me and I will remove it.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 18, 2000.


RUOK;

that is our question as well. I have sent out over 100 highly detailed e-mails to various new organizations and even personal contacts in a few news organizations ... FEDS are keeping an incredibly huge lid on this one ... I do have to wonder if these e-mails are getting thru to the larger or more 'vocal' news orgs.

Read the e-mail transcripts above. An incredible amount of editting and censorship is being performed on this one ... we have tangible, physical proof ...

Folks, it is coming down. Read between the lines, freedom's last warning shots are being symbolically fired - let's pray it does not become real bullets flying.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Thank you for your response.

Searching for more voices to spread the word. Try http://www.infowars.com Perhaps, Jones can use his forum.

-- zeaal (zeaal@wondering.from the south.com), January 18, 2000.


Dancr:

A million Thanks :-)

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


zeall:

Please see if you can get him over here, and see if you can find J Whitley as well ...

I am inundated ... phone ringing off of the hook, sometimes both voice lines at once.

Thanks :-)

Any help is appreciated.

Blessings on all my TB2000 family and upon all our visitors here tonight.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Archived privately at this point

# 3

-- If you need a copy post the request. # 3 (sysops@re.us), January 18, 2000.


I'm guessing they want to get this over with before every Indian activist in the country has time to get there... which is part of the news blackout. Seems they never heard of the Tom-Tom Communications Network.

Pine Ridge is in a much more desperate situation than either Cheyenne River or Rosebud. Unlike other tribes, their members do not receive any government distribution checks other than SSI, AFDC, food stamps and WIC. Poverty is worse than any third-world country. Some have to walk miles with plastic water jugs for water. Many burn donated clothing in their wood stoves for heat since they can't afford firewood or propane. It goes back to the treaty that gave the Lakota the Black Hills. The gold rush robbed them of their land - and the Supreme Court ruled in their favor, but awarded them money instead of restoring their sacred hills. If they (fullbloods) accept the money, they give up all claims to the Black Hills forever... which is like giving away their souls for money. So instead, the money piles up in some fed gov account - and the people live in extreme poverty, unwilling to sacrifice their sovereignty and their spiritual integrity. There are all sorts of political issues between fullbloods and mixed bloods. It is a very complicated situation, to say the least.

May the Creator provide wisdom and courage to all concerned, to find a peaceful solution.

-- (snoozin@no.more), January 18, 2000.


Michael,

I have an archival copy of the thread too. AND NOBODY IS TAMPERING WITH IT OR I'LL KICK SHINS!

Hrrumph!

Blessings to all your relations... sending angels.

Diane
A TBY2K Sysop

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?categoryid=&only=y&bfr omind=932&eetype=article&render=y&eeid=1392698&avr=1

Link

100 Sioux Seize Tribal Office

21:05EST

By CHET BROKAW

Associated Press Writer

01/17/00

PINE RIDGE, S.D. (AP) -- About 100 Oglala Sioux who accuse the tribe of financial mismanagement have taken over tribal headquarters and demanded that the governing council step down.

The group, which is allied with tribal President Harold Dean Salway, took control of the tribal building at the Pine Ridge Reservation on Sunday. About 100 people stayed there overnight and said they will remain until they are satisfied authorities will investigate their allegations.

Members of the tribal council voted to have the protesters thrown out of the building. They voted to have tribal law officers enforce tribal laws that ban the spread of false propaganda and actions that interfere with the conduct of council business.

Council members said they expect the tribe's public safety director to evict the protesters Monday night or Tuesday.

Members of the unarmed group are calling for an audit and have demanded the immediate resignation of tribal Treasurer Wesley "Chuck'' Jacobs and all 17 members of the tribal council. They also have asked the FBI to seize tribal records dealing with law enforcement, housing and other programs.

"The bottom line is, we want accountability and responsibility by our elected officials,'' said group spokesman Dale Looks Twice.

On Sunday, federal agents used to a search warrant to seize paper files and computer records from the Oglala Sioux Housing Authority. U.S. Attorney Ted McBride said the warrant was related to an investigation of programs funded by the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

By Monday evening, Salway, the tribal president, signed an order suspending Jacobs for a second time. He suspended Jacobs in October for allegedly mismanaging tribal funds, but a tribal judge later reinstated the treasurer.

And the council adopted resolutions encouraging a tribal judge to hold Salway in contempt for violating previous court orders that said he did not have authority to fire Jacobs.

Jacobs said there has been no mismanagement of federal or tribal funds and told council members they need to make sure financial records are not destroyed.

"This thing is a total breakdown in tribal government. It's up to you guys to regain control,'' Jacobs said.

Eileen Janis, a spokeswoman for Salway, said the president and others have become frustrated with Jacobs and the council majority that always supports the treasurer. "We want a complete audit of everything,'' she said.

Mark Vukelich, senior supervisory agent with the FBI in Rapid City, said Monday afternoon that the protesters have not provided specific allegations.

Most of the tribe's 12,100 members live on the reservation, which consistently ranks as one of the poorest areas of the nation.

-- (in@the.news), January 18, 2000.


Ditto: The New York Time's article that Two Hawks cited above...

January 17, 2000

100 Sioux Seize Pine Ridge Office

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/a/AP-Tribal-Takeover.html

[Fair Use: For Educational/Research Purposes Only]

A.P. INDEXES: TOP STORIES | NEWS | SPORTS | BUSINESS | TECHNOLOGY | ENTERTAINMENT

Filed at 9:05 p.m. EST

By The Associated Press

PINE RIDGE, S.D. (AP) -- About 100 Oglala Sioux who accuse the tribe of financial mismanagement have taken over tribal headquarters and demanded that the governing council step down.

The group, which is allied with tribal President Harold Dean Salway, took control of the tribal building at the Pine Ridge Reservation on Sunday. About 100 people stayed there overnight and said they will remain until they are satisfied authorities will investigate their allegations.

Members of the tribal council voted to have the protesters thrown out of the building. They voted to have tribal law officers enforce tribal laws that ban the spread of false propaganda and actions that interfere with the conduct of council business.

Council members said they expect the tribe's public safety director to evict the protesters Monday night or Tuesday.

Members of the unarmed group are calling for an audit and have demanded the immediate resignation of tribal Treasurer Wesley ``Chuck'' Jacobs and all 17 members of the tribal council. They also have asked the FBI to seize tribal records dealing with law enforcement, housing and other programs.

``The bottom line is, we want accountability and responsibility by our elected officials,'' said group spokesman Dale Looks Twice.

On Sunday, federal agents used to a search warrant to seize paper files and computer records from the Oglala Sioux Housing Authority. U.S. Attorney Ted McBride said the warrant was related to an investigation of programs funded by the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

By Monday evening, Salway, the tribal president, signed an order suspending Jacobs for a second time. He suspended Jacobs in October for allegedly mismanaging tribal funds, but a tribal judge later reinstated the treasurer.

And the council adopted resolutions encouraging a tribal judge to hold Salway in contempt for violating previous court orders that said he did not have authority to fire Jacobs.

Jacobs said there has been no mismanagement of federal or tribal funds and told council members they need to make sure financial records are not destroyed.

``This thing is a total breakdown in tribal government. It's up to you guys to regain control,'' Jacobs said.

Eileen Janis, a spokeswoman for Salway, said the president and others have become frustrated with Jacobs and the council majority that always supports the treasurer. ``We want a complete audit of everything,'' she said.

Mark Vukelich, senior supervisory agent with the FBI in Rapid City, said Monday afternoon that the protesters have not provided specific allegations.

Most of the tribe's 12,100 members live on the reservation, which consistently ranks as one of the poorest areas of the nation.



-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


Let us bear witness to all of this.

We Tsalagi remain watchful.

Remember Wounded Knee.

Two Hawks

-- John Eaton (jeaton@mindspring.com), January 18, 2000.


Greetings from Alabama

Many of us here are praying with you for an answer. We are watching and listening. May all be guided to a peaceful and just solution. My heart has been with the American Natives forever.

John Hassey

-- John Wesley Hassey (jhcapt@aol.com), January 18, 2000.


BOY is THAT a sanitized and spun account or WHAT??

Mr. Sulu, Set spin anchors. Maximum counteraction.

chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 18, 2000.


There is now a post at the Free Republic. I have placed a link from there to this page Group of Sioux Indians Demand Fed Audit. We are monitoring from other sites also.

-- Run Silent (dr@thecompound.com), January 18, 2000.

The AP story is now on Fox in the US area

Tohidu--

Hawks

-- John Eaton (
jeaton@mindspring.com), January 18, 2000.


WoW!

Here I was quite proud of myself that this is the First Day Of The Rest Of My Life and that I hadn't visited TB2000 today...that I had cleared more than 100 floppies of almost 72 MegaBytes of mostly Y2K related posts. It is almost 1 AM EST and I'm about to pull the plug, and yet...I just couldn't resist the urge to CLICK!

GAWD, I turn my back on this place and The Fit Hits The Shan!!! Thanks, guys. ;-)



-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It ALL went away 18 days ago .com), January 18, 2000.


Run Slient's URL is:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3883fbb036bd.htm

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.

I have sent e-mails to several news agencies with links to the AP wire and to this board, to encourage them to pick it up in the morning.

I wish there was more I could do.

Rev, please get some sleep tonite.

-- semper paratus (still_here_with@my.pals), January 18, 2000.


Okay folks - latest update.

I just hung up th phone with Martina Lookinghorse. Pine Ridge is now under local martial law. All vehicles are being searched. Every road leading to and from Pine Ridge has been barricaded with road blocks.

Hang on folks, this is just starting!

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Dear friends: Is there a local police scanner link that might provide us with any live connection to this?

-- merak (merak@sedona.net), January 18, 2000.

Thanks for the support y'all.

paratus - I wish I could, already been at this since 2pm yesterday when this first came down. No end in sight. Yet, but we will win. :-)

Oh --- add-on to Martina's Martial Law comment - apparently a house to house search for weapons is also being talked about.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Another e-mail:

My Dear Brother Christians, Patriots and Sacred Human Family:

There exists a problem which may not appear to be your problem, but when the government corrupts, or allows corruption, and then sanctions this corruption, we must be ready to disavow their aims, and shed light upon the situation at hand. This is all too familiar.

Tonight, I have packed my bags, and I am ready to leave Georgia, heading for the Pine Ridge Reservation ( Oglala Sioux nation). This is a risky adventure, and I am not getting real clear intel, my friends. When this happens in this kind of scenario, you can bet your "Branch Davidian" that our illustrious government is up to no-good once again. I need some good intelligence, and I need it rather quickly. From all indications this appears to be the scenario:

My Oglala Sioux brothers have found discrepancies in the tribal treasury which would lead them to believe they have been befuddled out of monies which go directly to the people of the Oglala Sioux nation. They have quietly taken over the office in protest and demand the monies returned. The Sioux are among the poorest people in this country, and I am appalled at this, and enraged. The Treasurer is a white man, and is in cahoots with the federal authorities over the matter. He is also the culprit it is believed, or so I am told. He apparently has tried to cover this up with the help of the feds at Pine Ridge. I need verification of this. I have also heard that the FBI is "standing down" and allowing the tribal fed cronies to find a solution to the problem (which may lead to a violent confrontation).

I am not going to allow...or stand idly by and watch a WACO or another WOUNDED KNEE transpire without being there to see it first-hand and judge my subsequent actions according to the real deal. I have heard that the 200 people inside the tribal Treasury office have turned the flag upside down...as a distress indicator. Needless to say I am concerned, and with the Media being suspiciously "quiet" about all of this, I need intel...good, verifiable intel.

The more the merrier they say. However...I do not want to go traipsing off to South Dakota "half-cocked." Pray for those people, and pray for me...because if the shooting starts, I will not be on this stupid computer punching the keyboard and playing arm chair quarterback, I guarantee you.

The warrior always knows his way back to his camp and to his people. Their plight is your plight. Our enemy is one-in-the same. Now you know where I stand.

Aho!

TimberWolf

**********************************************************************

I will let the message speak for itself!

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


The same AP article is up under San Francisco Gates Breaking News section...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/catlist.cgi?q=All&l= All&p=all&Go.x=222&Go.y=9

Specifically...

American Indians take control of Pine Ridge tribal office
Monday, January 17, 2000

CHET BROKAW, Associated Press Writer

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2000/01/17/national1649EST0666.DTL

Will check the print versions tomorrow.

Get some sleep Michael, and visit there in light body spirit.

May a peace-full night be had by all.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


Dr. Rev. Michael ThunderLight

Hope these links help.
Saved a copy of the thread.
Sent e-mail
Called others
I am praying for you and the folks at Pine Ridge, may God bless and keep you safe.



Contacting WorldNetDaily

Joseph Farah
David Bresnahan
ETC...

-- Possible Impact (posim@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.

Simultaneous posting. Be well Michael!

Great Spirit is with you.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


I, too, sent a message to David Bresnahan.

Hopefully, wnd.com will hear the call.

-- zeaal (zeaal@minding.com), January 18, 2000.


I wonder whether Gerry Spence, who successfully defended Randy Weaver, will be making any comment on this business.

Or Peter Mathiessen, who wrote In the Spirit of Crazy Horse, and had a lot to say about Lenoard Peltier's case.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), January 18, 2000.


Syio People, Don't let your last arrow be broken by a dark past.The more arrows that we can bond together now,the stronger they will be in the future. We are a very strong willed people, and the Creator knows this from the past. Our people gave up alot in the past,to keep our people on earth,and now it is our turn to make it to the mountian.If our blood flows now,that means that the darkness has taken another battle from our people....

Wydo, Crow Hand....

-- Crow Hand (Redfoot@bellsouth.net), January 18, 2000.


Copies ARE being archived.

No NEEDTOKNOW

-- No NEEDTOKNOW (not@this.time), January 18, 2000.


I hope I spell all this right - cause at the moment the tears are rolling in bucket-fulls ... thank you!

Believe it or not - I feel the love and support flowing, is an incredibly beautiful feeling.

We are making a difference - and we ALL are making history. The world is taking notice, and you all stand at the center of the main event. I am proud to call you family. You prove that people, no matter what other differences of opinion that they might share, will pull together for what is right. Look in your mirrors - YOU are the future of the human race.

Creator has blessed all of us this night.

with Love and pride;

Rev ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


See also comments on the alert to this thread...

TB2000 is making history tonight

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 002LUY



-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


See also:

TB2000 is making history tonight


-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), January 18, 2000.

Cross post from "Run Silent" thread on Free Republic:

More than a few million of tribal money somehow slipped thru the hands of the Interior Dept. When a federal judge hearing the various tribes case ordered Babbit and since-departed Robert Rubin to produce the records (for audit) they first said they were missing. Charges were made that they had been shredded. The court held Babbitt and Rubin in contempt.

And that was that.

Apparently, the Sioux have said, "I don't think so! And won't just "move on".

Posted on 01/17/2000 22:45:35 PST by TexMex
link

Rev ThunderLight, it occurs to me that this is what the awesome power of the internet was created for...and, this is what scares those who live for power and control. Thank you for helping us all to add our voices to the last truly free press. May it make a real difference in the outcome of this event.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), January 18, 2000.


Dear friends,

I have emailed a feedback post to CNN and have also posted a new message in the Indigenous Peoples' forum.

Will call local Atlanta media contacts tomorrow.

Tohidu,

Two Hawks (Tsalagi-Eastern Band)

-- John Eaton (jeaton@mindspring.com), January 18, 2000.


The more things change, the more things stay the same. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The bad news for the establishment is that with the internet, we don't just hear what they want us to hear(Aka CNN, NY TIMES, etc). We hear several different sides to the story.

I hope this whole thing is settled without bloodshed. I also hope you guys succeed against the Klinton Kronies, Reno, etc.

-- Dan W (danwmsu@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.


Rev. ThunderLight,
(hiding in plain sight@edge of.nowhere)
may I propose a new screen handle sugestion?

Shouts from Mountaintop@edge of.nowhere

I think it kinda fits...

-- Possible Impact (posim@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.

RUOK:

"May it make a real difference in the outcome of this event."

It already has my friend, it already has. You would not believe the grassroot groundswelling that is occuring - people from all walks of life from all over, not only the US, but the world are standing together as one people - united for a common cause; freedom of self-determination, free-will, and self-governed sovereignty.

y2k may just be have become TEOFTWAWKI ...

I know one thing - the Oglala Sioux are already talking about TB2000, and the people here who helped them to remain free. I thnk it very probable that many others are discussing the same thing elsewhere.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Keep your faith Brother! Fear ye not. It is we who owe the debt to your people. Gary White Deer taught me the little known tale of the Choctaw Nation's contribution to the starving Irish during the 1847 Famine. It was during the height of the Irish Holocaust that the humble Oklahoma Tribe collected $127 from their own poverty stricken reservation and sent it to a Quaker Relief Fund used to purchase (among other cereals, Maize or "Indian Corn") to be sent by sailing ship across the ocean for dying Irish families. These were the same honorable nation of people which were brutally forced from ancient tribal lands on the deadly Trail of Tears march. $127 from those penniless, hungry Native Americans was a gift of a most monumental gesture to alleviate human sufering that I have ever heard. TRUE CELTS OF THE DIASPORA SPREAD THIS MESSAGE WORLDWIDE!! All nations take heed. Do not despair, we are with you Pine Ridge!! RED CLOUD LIVES FOREVER!!! The Irish do not forget their brethren in spirit bondage. As the mother of a Kickapoo descendant, so sayeth this River Daughter of the Blackwater Tribe!

-- Nokomis (manitou@gitchegummee.com), January 18, 2000.

Possible Impact:

I am just the messenger - It is Creator who is shouting from upon the mountaintop. He is only one who could have brought the resources together that were needed to get this job done.

But I thank you for your kind words. They bring great joy to this humble heart.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


I'd recomend all people save a copy of this webpage. I can defininatly picture Reno's thugs erasing this.

I also posted this link on CNN's "Guns under Fire" forum, and a few other 2nd amend forums. This story is being followed by many libertarian and govt watchdog groups out there. I don't know if they will last, but I'll see if I can spread the word out somewhat anyway. 2nd amend rights activists are very well connected and I hope a few of their groups can help you guys out. "The price of freedom is eternal vigiliance"

-- Dan W (danwmsu@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.


This event is also being reported at The rumor Mill -- a link from that site to this page has been placed.

-- Run Silent (dr@thecompound.com), January 18, 2000.

Chief Crow Hand, Two Hawks, and Nokomis;

Thank you for your words of wisdom and your help. It is honor that you share your hearts with us.

Blessings upon each of you.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Anyone contact Ed Yourdon? After all, this IS his forum ... :-)

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.

Rumor Mill News Forum for Nonmembers.

straight to FBI AND INDIANS IN STANDOFF

-- Possible Impact (posim@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.

Time to ask for favors again ...

Here is an e-mail with contact info ... can someone please send a link to this page to the individuals listed?

Thanks!

From: "Sylvia Harrington"

Subject: News contact info

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:01:02 -0600

Rev - Very best wishes and prayers in your efforts. Here's a little research, hope it helps. All from the Sioux Falls Argus Leader Newspaper.

Email address of the Executive editor of the Sioux Falls Argus Leader, David Ledford. His phone # 331-2332

dledford@argusleader.com

He's the only one with an email addy listed. Some other news/reporter types are:

Rosemary McCoy, News Editor

331-2370

Patrick Lalley, Reporter

331-2291

Randy Hascall, Reporter

331-2320

Jennifer Gerrietta, Reporter

331-2312

Peter Ellis, Managing Editor

331-2308

Good luck! God go with you.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


I have sent an email to the Robby Noel radio program. I have also notified someone who knows him to alert him to this developing story and get coverage on his program. Eagles Up

The Pine Ridge Reservation is reported to have 200 FBI agents surrounding it -- The reports on the news media are somewhat watered down from the LIVE, ON THE SCENE story that is being reported by the Rev. ThunderLight at OT - FBI/Indian standoff at Pine Ridge Rez! -- This story is not being reported with the same facts that are coming from those actually at the scene and INVOLVED with tribal affairs -- The media has been getting it's story from FBI public relations people -- This is a story of massive corruption by some of the local "White Men" who have found a loop hole in an 1834 Treaty which allows them to be members of the tribal council. The MAIN culprit seems to be one of the local, non tribal town person's who has acquired the position of TRIBAL TREASURER -- The "locals" have been purchasing new houses and land while the people of the tribe are "going without".

This is the same tribe that President Clinton visited last July on his "poverty tour" for one of his "photo ops" proving how he is helping the down trodden and forgotten of this country. HUD moneys and other Federal funds have been sent to this tribe of Oglala Sioux, yet stories of overcrowding in housing and hungry children are rampant while the local "White" members of the council who live in town purchase new houses and land. Also under fire: the handling of a $7.8 million program for law enforcement, which, despite funding, on Friday laid off 60 tribal law enforcement workers. There is more, much more to this story if you will read the THREAD as reported by Rev. ThunderLight and others.

This may be a good topic for your radio program, attention should be brought to the public about the occurrences that are taking place at Pine Ridge -- I urge you to survey the Thread located at the enclosed link and judge for yourself.

OT - FBI/Indian standoff at Pine Ridge Rez!

-- Run Silent (dr@thecompound.com), January 18, 2000.


Thanks Run Silent - Well Done!

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

To Whomever is Present with Dr. ThunderLight:

Please, volunteer to monitor this thead for him so he can get some sleep. This could be a long drawn out situation, and cool heads and well rested bodies are better able to see the way. Promise to wake him if anything develops that requires his immediate attention. We can continue this work from here. But we can't get his sleep for him.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 18, 2000.


Sorry Dancr -

I am a solo act ... :-)

But I promise, I will get some shut-eye here in a while, i just have to get caught up on e-mail. Only a few left, have already answered over a thousand queries in last 36 hours. A few more won't kill me. (I hope!)

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


I have emailed the following to David Ledford,Executive Editor of the Sioux Falls Argus Leader.

Mr. Ledford: You may be aware of the situation at the Pine Ridge Reservation. The "stories" that have been reported by the news media sources which have been accessible thus far have left a lot of details about the incident which is most likely being dispensed from the FBI public relations team.

Rev. ThunderLight is reporting the incident LIVE from the scene with KNOWLEDGE of tribal activities at the internet site located at OT - FBI/Indian standoff at Pine Ridge Rez! . I hope that you can have one of your staff read the story as told by someone involved with the tribal affairs as an actual member of the tribe and not one of the "outsiders" from Washington or the local town.

I will check in later -- May Peace Prevail

-- Run Silent (dr@thecompound.com), January 18, 2000.


Thanks again Run Silent!

Oh, BTW - just to clear up some confusion, at moment I am in Western WY, not Pine Ridge, SD ... but I have been spending a total of about 45 minutes out of every hour on the phone with several different tribal elders who ARE on-scene.

To which I should add, my long-distance phone bill is gonna be obscene. :-0

Anyway, probably to the relief of the many mother-hens here, I am off to get some sleep. Thanks for keeping this going y'all.

Good-night and Creator's many blessings upon all of you!

Aho!

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Along the lines of videos and photos, is there a computer scanner on the premises or which can be brought into use somehow? Or fax machine? What is the radio/telephone/power situation? Hopefully people there know their Waco event history in detail...

I may have missed the answer in skimming all of the reports, but is there some tie in with the relatively recent Interior-Dept. level to produce BIA accounting records in response to court subpoenas? (Naiive question)

--Zy (1/8 or so Pueblo if grandma was correct)

-- zygote (zygote@zygote.zygote), January 18, 2000.


Zygote:

Affirmative to all your questions.

Detailed discussion about current situation -vs- other similar historical events have been held between the on-scene group leaders. After that discussion, the creation of this thread and the massive push to get the word out to the media to avoid a similar fate was made.

They are currently frantically working to get a very detailed, very precise document that fully details all of the events and circumstances leading up to this situation, their 'demands,' and the desired outcomes.

That document will be faxed out as soon as it is completed. We should have a link posted to an online copy soon thereafter.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

I heard this from someone else who saw it. abc overnight news has a two-minute blurb. They did not say anything abut fed involvement -- just there is a protest and the tribal cuncil turned down the protest

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 18, 2000.


Dancr:

ROFL - the joys of the mass media .... :-(

anyway ... I'm off to bed.

Y'all have the Comm ... share nicely! :-)

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

It seems to me as though the most significant aspect of this situation, from our standpoint, is the censorship and possible Echelon implications. Can we probe into the situations reported above and confirm that the problems these people had cannot be easily dismissed by alternate explanations? Are any others having similar problems? Where else can we post this information (that it would be welcome), to see if it (still) gets deleted anywhere?

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 18, 2000.


From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

Just after posting this, I backed out to "Recent Answers" to click the link and confirm that it made it through. It was there. Then... I reloaded and waited a long time with a white text free page to be told that Netscape was "unable to locate" the server" and was reloading from a backup copy. I tried again several times, and it stayed in this state for about five minutes before returning to normal. During this time I received 28 incoming ICMP from my ISP (s0-1-0.ati-ga-gw1.netcom.net as noted on my firewall), and one from p6-0-0.mae-west.icg.net.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 18, 2000.


18 Jan 00 - 1:54am

Having read above that some sites had reports deleted shortly after they were put up, I was interested to see if the SierraTimes would have any problems.

As it turns out, a short time after publishing the Press Release we received at around 10:30pm, we started getting reports that the site was inaccessable. I didn't believe this and am always skeptical about such reports because they seem to never mention where the data was posted and subsequenty disappeared from.

The first thing I did was ping the site, just to verify that the server was still online. There have been poweroutages in the city where the webserver is located so I wanted to rule that out first. The ping had a high amount of time-outs, which slowly began to return to normal. (It's fine now.)

Next, I loaded http://www.sierratimes.com and saw the top frame begin to load and I wondered why people were reporting that it wasn't available. But then when both frames were done loading - There was Nothing in the content (lower) frame!

It was blank!

I checked the ftp server and saw that the file which had just previously contained primarily news about Pine Ridge was now a file containing 0 bytes.

I immediately replaced the empty file with the one that had just previously been there, and it is still there as of 2:04am.

I still find it hard to believe and I want to assume that somehow, we made some kind of error at a coincidental time that ruined the html file in a way that didn't delete it, but removed all content. (Is that even possible? I should have saved that zero byte file to see if there was even any code left in it.)

I tried to duplicate such a theoretical error but couldn't create a file with no content. The replacement file showed the correct file size, as have subsequent updates. It also occurs to me that if someone wanted to stop this info from getting out, they haven't done anything to this site.

I suppose it is possible that someone is trying to keep the word from getting out, but I'm sure between all of us, we can guarantee them that such a thing just isn't gonna be possible.

Not unless they shut the whole net down, which they can't do.

If they disable this site and the SierraTimes, we'll immediately have the information pop up elsewhere. I don't expect such trouble, but I also can't explain what happened to our site earlier tonight.

It would be nice to get the locations of the places that are reported to have had their reports disappear. Maybe, like ours, once it was replaced, it stayed.

Webmaster, http:/www.sierratimes.com

-- Webmaster 4 SierraTimes.com (geek@harborside.com), January 18, 2000.


No post in awhile. Just making sure posts are still being posted....

-- BH (bh_silentvoice@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

The way I'm thinking about it now, if there is some sinister involvement, is that they let it seem to post for a sec, so that the unsuspicious poster will naturally double-check and think that all is fine. Then, they take it off for a while to decide if it has to stay off. Maybe that takes a while, if there is more than one person involved. If the poster is still checking, then they may decide to put it up again for a while.

I guess that doesn't mean they might not take it off later. But the more people who see it, the harder that would become. If we get any "probably removed by sysop" messages, we should confirm with the sysops whether they did or did not, in fact, delete. This can be difficult in the case of multiple sysops.

Or, perhaps, they don't really have the ability to "take things off," but only to shut the site down or not shut it down.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 18, 2000.


Dancr:

NONE of the sysops here will do any such removal. IF there IS a "sysop removed" message, contact Diane or myself and we will certainly repost the entire thread as we are archiving it on the fly.

Chuck

PS And NO we are NOT keeping just one copy. They are being tucked away in several places. [Adjusting tinfoil hat now...... ;-)]

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 18, 2000.


Update from the local FOX affiliate (as of 0730AM Eastern)

For fair use Yaddayadda:
Trouble in Pine Ridge

A list of demands including the ousting of tribal officials, and a full audit of all income to the Oglala Sioux Tribe is why a group of Grass Roots people took over the tribal office on the Pine Ridge Reservation. Henry Red Cloud is a small business owner on the reservation, he is only one person out of 17% of the population who has a job... the problem is economic development. But Monday, Red Cloud focused on more than just the economy... he and other tribal members are concerned with the alleged gross misconduct and mismanagement of funds by tribal treasurer Wesley "Chuck" Jacobs, who's been suspended by the tribal president. The group has other demands as well including all funds owed to programs be paid back in full. The FBI has already seized some tribal records and is investigating the situation. Story by: Matt Broderick

Soft and purty ain't it though? Rev., any word on the .gov equipment? How about some descriptions? Anyone got any new intel? I'm pulling a dry hole from my .mil/.gov sources.

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), January 18, 2000.


my thoughts and prayers are with you all.

i just searched the cnn website and got no (recent) hits for pine ridge. so, i e-mailed their feedback line and asked them why they weren't covering the story. then i asked them if they were being told to stay away from a story about the possibility of another waco.

let's see what they come up with.

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.


Submitted: 18Jan00 05:10 PT By: J.J. Johnson  Editor SierraTimes.com e-mail citizen@mindspring.com

To All on this list:

I just spend the last two hours going over all of these postings, including, my webmasters, and one of my own that was forwarded here. I would like everyone to take a deep breath for just a moment. What I will say will help EVERYONE. It may save a life.

First, noticed how I submitted the Date and local time (pacific time for me) at the top of this post. Every should consider a similar format. That way, each person reading this site is aware of when the statement was submitted. Some may think this is not important, but you would not want anyone to respond to bad, or out dated information. Everyone: please list the date and time of your post before you submit it to the list. Dont forget your time zones!

Next, for the people reporting from the scene: We understand the tense nature of the situation. Many people who are watching the events are experienced in matters of potentially hostile standoffs with federal forces. These people can help. But you must help them first. You have a hundred eyes out there. We have none. Telling us there are hundreds of federal agents and vehicles simply is not good enough. In order to help you, the people watching need to know how many of what, and who are around you. We need to know their locations. Guesses wont work. I know its hard, but try. We need numbers as near as possible. Are there weapons pointed at you. What kind? Is there someone in charge of the federal agents on the ground? Can you see him/her?

Someone posted the SALUTE format. This is what everyone on the ground must use. This will help everyone.

Next, we know that Rapid City is the nearest major city to the area. If you can read this, go to mapquest.com. Use your address or a nearby U.S. post office and pin point your location, then the location of what ever is around you. If you have a printer with you, create the mapquest map using your address, then print it out and make copies for everyone.If you can locate the agents around you, e- mail the map to everyone. Federal agents do not like have a million eyes looking at them. You can make it happen.

In situations like these, more than just the FBI would be used. They have to work in shifts. They have to sleep somewhere. We need the names of any and all hotels, and motels in your area. Gas stations and airfields would help as well. This may all sound impossible to do right now, but if you feel you are going to meet the Great Spirit, then you have nothing to loose. Help us help you.

Finally, to those watching from across America:

We know who we are, and what we stand for. We've been through, this before. No speculations people! Report the facts as they come to you, not as you interpret them. Many of us are 2nd amendment activist, libertarians, other tribes or just alternative news organizations hungry for a story. Do not loose sight of the central issue. Remember: we are not the New York establishment. It is more important to get the story right , than to get it first. There are people out there depending on us to get the right story of fast, and prevent disaster.

The easiest way to get your information out is to place detailed information here. Let us do the leg work. We can pick it up and get it distributed. Dont bother with the fax machines. Just use the computer for as long as you can. People outside the trial office should also keep watch over any electrical substations, transformers, and line switching equipment. Look for Utility trucks in the area. This will give you an indication of power loss.

One more thing: Dont bother responding to National media calls. The AP already has it. No need to repost it. Call Rapid City. Get local news camera and private video cameras. If people are going to come to your aid, they have to come from as near as possible. Get the word out locally, well do the national stuff. The other tribes know. There are people in every state and Indian nation watching. You are our brothers and sisters. We are all under the same pressures from the same government. When you bleed, we bleed. When you are free, we are free.

If you need something, just say it. It will get there  somehow. We are all Americans. We will all stand together. By taking your stand against federal forces, it just means that you are just a little more American than some of us.

J.J. Johnson  citizen@mindspring.com Editor http://www.SierraTimes.com

-- J.J. Johnson (citizen@mindspring.com), January 18, 2000.


From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

I've written to Ed Yourdon and to David Ledford at the Sioux Falls Argus Leader Newspaper. Perhaps someone geographically closer to Sioux Falls could volunteer to call those other Argus Leader numbers when the paper opens in the morning. I tried but there's no answer, yet.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 18, 2000.


From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California Time: 05:37 AM Pacific Time

Sorry... those posts crossed in the air, so I didn't see the timestamp request, which is ironic, since I devoted an entire post to the importance of timestamps earlier today. The timestamp on my post immediately prior to this one was 5:10 AM Pacific Time.

I wonder if there is some HTML we might use at the top of our posts that would automatically provide the header information JJ is requesting. If Philip wouldn't adjust the software to do this, perhaps we could all manually paste it in before posting. (Easy for me to say, since I've been doing this ever since first coming to TBY2K.

Also, BTW, the Area Code for Sious Falls is (605)

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 18, 2000.


We the People are watching from the Commonwealth of Virginia. Stand proud and strong against tyranny brothers. The FBI does not dare to have another Waco or Ruby Ridge. The American people WILL NOT stand for it! "Sic Semper Tyrannis" (Thus always to tyrants.)

-- Sam Frakes (sfrakes@netzero.net), January 18, 2000.

We the People are watching from the Commonwealth of Virginia. Stand

proud and strong against tyranny brothers. The FBI does not dare to

have another Waco or Ruby Ridge. The American people WILL NOT stand

for it! "Sic Semper Tyrannis" (Thus always to tyrants.)

-- Sam Frakes (sfrakes@eitinc.com), January 18, 2000.


FYI concerning the "0 bytes" that one person found on a site with a Pine Ridge article,this also happened to Bill Cooper's harvest-trust website.In his case it deleted his entire website.He lost about 3000 hours of reseach when this happened.He seemed to think that it was possibly the ip's fault.Also I e-mailed Mr. Cooper yesterday to make him aware of the situation.Hopefully he gave out the news on his shortwave program last night.I'll be extremely proud to help a brave and courageous people seeking justice.Anything I can do? I have also talked to a radio station and a tv station both in the Phoenix area asking why there is no news coverage on this event.

-- just a thought (tigerpm@netscape.com), January 18, 2000.

Linda,giving up is not the way to do things.Giving up means that the status quo remains the same.If there wasn't a serious problem these people would not have had to do what they did.Sometimes no one listens.Don't you believe in anything or anyone enough to die for?

-- just a thought (tigerpm@netscape.com), January 18, 2000.

We the people of the Lone Star State, Texas, are watching this very closely. We, of course, have our own stories to tell of federal strong-arm tactics.

Our good thoughts and wishes are with the people of the Pine Ridge Reservation.

-- lone star state (lonestar@state.here), January 18, 2000.


Linda, why don't you have the good grace to "know your role and shut your suck?"

Just checked the BIA website. Nothing showing in it, but the overview was quite a hoot

"The Bureau of Indian Affair's mission is to enhance the quality of life, to promote economic opportunity, and to carry out the responsibility to protect and improve the trust assets of American Indians, Indian tribes and Alaska Natives..."

Seems that somebody done dropped the ball again there Bubba... I say Death to the Oppressors. We stole this country....and we continually gloss over the evil that was done to the Nation(s). Screw the BIA... Man...this kind of thing is really wearing on my final nerve....>Rant off<

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), January 18, 2000.


7:27 AM Pacific

Woke up to the Paul Harvey show on the radio this morning. He made brief mention that 100 Oglala Sioux had occupied the Council building at the Pine Ridge reservation, and were demanding the resignation of the Council. It wasn't much, but it's definitely mainstream. No mention at all on the ABC newsfeed that followed.

Suggestion: Do not be drawn into pointless debate on this thread, or it will deteriorate, losing its focus and purpose.

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), January 18, 2000.


I hope this will open eyes at the White House....I pray that all involved will remain safe and unharmed. The miss use of funds for Native Americans is so wide spread..here funds are being missed used also..when will it end...as Chief Red Cloud said " They made us many promises more than I can remember. But they kept one--they promised to take our land and they took it" . What will it take for the U.S. government to wake up that people are not stupid and we see what's happening..Can you tell me if Russell Means has heard or gotten there?..My prayers are with you all ..AHO!

-- Mini-je'ja' (blkfoot@cwv.net), January 18, 2000.

Just checking in 7:40 am PST.

Off to do some research.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


The altavista article "in@the.news" provided the above link to last night is gone. The article was there last night, and the link is correct: http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?categoryid=&only=y&bfromind=932&eetype=article&render=y&eeid=1392698&avr=1

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), January 18, 2000.

BTW, also e-mailed Ed Yourdon.

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.

Linda, If it was your ancestors, and your people who were brutally murdered in a campaign of state-sponsored genocide, you might feel different.

Oh that's right, people like you can't listen to anything that doesn't make you "feel good" Right? In the meantime, you should stick to subjects you know something about.

Cherokee and proud of it!

Up with Freedom, Down with the feds!

-- Powder (Powder@aol.com), January 18, 2000.


11:13 AM EST

Link: http://www.msnbc.com/onair/nbc/nightlynews/fleecing/weeknov12.asp

[Text: For Educational purposes, etc.]

The Bureau of Indian Affairs: A Legacy of Mistrust

This week's Fleecing of America broadcast segment is about financial trouble at the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs. Auditors are saying they can't locate $2.4 billion of the bureau's transactions and that individual accounts totaling $450 million are also in jeopardy.

The BIA holds money in trust for individuals and tribes whose properties are leased to private entities such as mining and ranching corporations. For about 100 years, the BIA has been receiving these funds and passing them on to Indian owners. The problem in this case is that the bureau has lost track of its records, jeopardizing the finances of Indian families and entire tribes.

The scandal over the missing records has prompted a class action suit against the Treasury Department and the Department of the Interior, which oversees the BIA. Indians filing the suit in conjunction with the Native American Rights Fund blame the problems on shoddy record-keeping and the lack of an audit trail in the BIA system.

The whole affair adds up to a fleece of major proportions, affecting hundreds of tribes and hundreds of thousands of individual Indians. It also affects tax payers, of course, who are financing this mismanagement now and might have to pay millions to resolve it later.

This week's online feature: The flap at the BIA is one in a long line of failed government initiatives relating to Indians that dates back to the beginning of the republic. Our multimedia timeline, "The Bureau of Indian Affairs: Legacy of Mistrust," shows that from the time of the Continental Congress, Indian policy has been complicated by contradictions and reversals, and compromised by cynicism, mismanagement and outright lies.

We're always looking for good ideas. If you've got some information that you'd like to share  a tip, or a story you think would make a good Fleece, drop us a line. [mailto:fleece@nbc.com]

[End Text]

_________________________________

link: http://www.msnbc.com/onair/nbc/nightlynews/fleecing/self-determination .asp

[Text: For Educational purposes, etc.]

Self Determination late 1960's - 1980's

In the 1960s, a small but vocal group of Indian activists began trying to change the bureaucracy that was responsible for hundreds of years of broken treaties and failed policies. Members of this new Indian movement (sometimes called Red Power) preached a message of greater self-determination, tribal self-government and increased Indian involvement in the political process. In terms of policy, activists were seeking a return to the time of the Indian New Deal, when John Collier had first introduced the concept of government-sanctioned tribal sovereignty and self-determination. But this time around, it was members of militant activist groups who were demanding the changes. In sometimes violent protests, groups such as the American Indian Movement began demanding an overhaul of the BIA. Saying that the bureau did not represent the interests of Indians, activists occupied the BIAs Washington headquarters in 1972. In another famous incident a year later, AIM activists led an armed standoff with federal agents on the Sioux tribes Pine Ridge reservation at Wounded Knee. Partly as a result of these struggles, the government passed a wide range of new legislation to help empower Indians -- all of which was administered through the BIA.

[End Text]

______________________

link: http://www.msnbc.com/onair/nbc/nightlynews/fleecing/today.asp

[Text: For Educational Purposes, etc.]

Today

One of the legacies of the Indian activism of the past 20 years is the increasing role of Indians in the administration of their own affairs. Now, for example, the staff of the Bureau of Indian Affairs is about 90 percent Indian. And though many of the highest posts within the BIA are still held by non-Indians, the most powerful position within the bureau is held by Ada Deer of the Menominee tribe in Wisconsin.

Another legacy of the struggle for Indian self-determination is a growing prosperity among some tribes --particularly those that have taken advantage of the federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. Passed in 1988, the legislation legalized casino-style gambling on Indian reservations, in some cases generating profits that would have been inconceivable to tribal ancestors. Its notable that the BIA has administrative responsibility for this legislation, but has little if anything to do with the new-found wealth of the most successful tribes, since the legislation holds the tribes directly responsible for the administration of their own gaming operations. Indeed, many point to Indian gaming operations as a truly successful example of policy which places power directly in the hands of Indians instead of bureaucrats.

But questions about the viability of the BIA persist. The bureau still administers programs that dont seem to make a dent in the poverty and declining employment rates that continue to place certain tribes among the poorest segments of the U.S. population. And, of course, the bureaus trustee relationship with many of the nations tribes has become an issue again. According to its own literature, the BIA cannot precisely define the nature of its trustee relationship with certain tribes. "The trust agreement is not written out in any document." But according to the BIA, "it is an established legal and moral obligation to protect and enhance the property and resources of Indian tribes." The latest flap over lost funds seems to contradict this statement.

[End Text]

______________________

link: http://www.msnbc.com/onair/nbc/nightlynews/fleecing/default.asp

Text: For Educational purposes, etc.]

The Fleecing of America

[End text] [Page has links, email addresses, and so forth.]

________________

-- Postman (ringstwice@lw.ays), January 18, 2000.


My prayers and hopes are with you in these times of trial, and peril. I have forwarded the page link to another person in the media, a radio personality that is notorious for saying exactly what he thinks, and i have yet to find out what he says is off in the slightest. That is the Truckin Bozo, and he has a nation wide radio show that thousands listen to. I pray that there is a peaceful resolution, and a great wrong righted before it comes down to blood shed. Thoughts and prayers are with you all

-- Josie Fald (MornigAngl@aol.com), January 18, 2000.

Howatsu let me know if you need us. We will try to help in any way. As a warrior, I can only speak for myself, but I will come if needed. Our people stand behind you and offer smoke and prayers.

Hawkwatcher Kalanu Southeast Kituwah Nation

-- Isom Hawkwatcher Pope (pope@socket.net), January 18, 2000.


9:45am MST

Checking back in! Nothing new to report from Pine Ridge at this time. I am on the phone with Martina Lookinghorse right now.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Sorry for the mix-up.

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), January 18, 2000.

not a problem Spider ... outstanding job! Thanks for the effort.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.

Bozhoo Brothers and Sisters from Anishinabeg Country!

Stumbled across the link to this site this morning (that's what happens when you don't pay attention and trust the Mass Media Monster to keep you informed) and was rattled to my shoes ... just wanted you to know, I put my diminishing skills as a former journalist to work and made some contacts with this story ... my favorite was chiding NPR's All Things Considered for following Bubba to Lakota Aki for his poverty tour dog and pony, but letting real news slide when it's breaking. We'll see.

prayers are on their way up ... walk in peace!

megisi

-- D.Sanders (megisi2@aol.com), January 18, 2000.


Was trying to get a pespective on where Pine Ridge, SD is in relationship to the local area. (Wanted to ge a sense of where the local papers would be). Looks like Pierre is closer than Sioux Falls.

Diane

Mapquest (you can zoom in)...

Red star is Pine Ridge...

http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&YY=11620&city=Pine%20Ridge& state=SD&slt=43.2668&sln=-102.7046&mag=4&cs=5&newmag=3

Pine Ridge, SD

http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&YY=10822&city=Pine%20Ridge& state=SD&slt=43.2668&sln=-102.7046&mag=6&cs=5&newmag=5

Sioux Falls, SD

http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&YY=15099&city=Sioux%20Falls& state=SD&slt=43.5500&sln=-96.7000&mag=5&cs=5&newmag=4

Hope this works, otherwise enter Pine Ridge, SD here and zoom out...

http://maps.yahoo.com/py/ maps.py



-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


Actually, Diane, Rapid City is the closest, and is the city where most Lakota go for city-stuff.

I am concerned that there is so little information this morning. It seems they have locked it all down tight.

-- (snoozin@no.more), January 18, 2000.


Alex Jones just mentioned story, says they are talking to folks on rez. Said this is Indian against Indian. 1:04pm EST

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.

Thanks snoozin,

Took a look at Pierre news sources... that was a waste! Not much there.

Looking at Sioux Falls now, then will hunt and peck around Rapid City.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


Sounds like the spin is 'in' Hok... This isn't Indian on Indian...This is all about the fair administration of an enourmous amount of money that cannot be accounted for, with a 'paleface' sitting on the top of the heap. Unless the real story gets out, then this'll just get written off as more disgruntled reservationists off on a bitchfest, rather than exposing the real issues of corruption that seem to be present.

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), January 18, 2000.

Maybe THIS is the Hillbilly's legacy...maybe some Mitchner type author will write a sequell to Centennial...Millennial! ROTFLMAO!!!

Not so funny for the soon to be dead Indians, though.



-- ~~~~ (Losing it @ Lost it .com), January 18, 2000.


Whew. Those links aren't even worth posting. Think the internet potential is "slow" in SD, as far as news is concerned.

Need to get to work. Will persue tonight.

Hope it will be a peaceful day in Pine Ridge.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


Just saw a brief report on KELO-TV News from Sioux Falls (12.00 Noon CST, Tuesday). They report that the protestors want the FBI to seize the records for audit. They also said that the Tribal Council has voted to have the protestors removed from the building, but they didn't mention who was going to do the removal.

Video showed the interior of the building--many elderly among the protestors--the room was full of people who appeared peaceful and very patient.

Another clip showed the outside of the building, cordoned off with yellow police tape. Lots of people outside drinking coffee, looking cold. No cops, FBI, equipment or vehicles were shown.

No interviews with protestors, supporters or Feds.

Video looks fairly recent judging from the degree of daylight.

-- Sam Mcgee (weissacre@gwtc.net), January 18, 2000.


Latest Update as of 11:00 am MST

As per Martina Lookinghorse:

- Events on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation are now being conducted under the Lakota Sioux Nation as a whole ... no longer just by the Oglala Tribe or other band within the Nation, but rather as the entire Nation.

- During the night, an additional occupying group has now taken over the Community Action Program Building in Allen (sp?), SD - which is about 30 miles from Pine Ridge. Discrepancies have been found in that Program's financial records as well.

- A call for assistance at both the White Clay and Cheyenne River Tribal Offices - HAS - been made by sympathizers, tho no formal plans are available at this time.

- Word about the TB2000 coverage and assistance has spread throughout the Lakota Nation. Martina says that, knowing that she is in contact with the forum, dozens of people have asked her to relay their thanks.

- Finally, apparently late last night/early this morning, during the establishment of Martial Law, shots WERE fired. As earlier reported, in the last few days, the Tribal Council has fired over 60 LEO's, so most residents are having to deal with the ongoing situation without law enforcement assistance. With insufficient officers, Martial Law broke down, and the residents themselves maintained peace, lawm and order in their community. Details are still sketchy at the moment, but it appears that local sympathetic residents prevented any tragedies from occurring, and no reports of injuries or damage are being reported.

The Tribal Council and the Treasurer have established a headquarters at the casino in Pine Ridge. The casino is heavily armed. Tribal Building occupants have no weapons, it is reported that the occupants did not even bring pocket knives into the building with them.

- More details regarding these and other actions currently underway will follow as soon as available.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Good SALUTE report Sam... Keep us informed!

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), January 18, 2000.

I'm 45min late getting back to work--I've been e-mail portions of thread with link to Chris Gerner Amerikan Expose, and Alex Jones. The thread is too long, so I pull quotes to send, with link. They have staellite shortwave and online radio shows and web sites.

-- Hokie (VA@VA.com), January 18, 2000.

Billy, agreed--I sent plenty of quotes from here, pasted in titles and subject--trying to correct him. Wish I had time to call his show, but gotta try to keep my job, heh.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.

Follow-up 11:35am

Oliver Red-Cloud, the grandson of Chief Red Cloud who lead the Lakota Sioux Nation onto the first of the plains reservations, has now joined the occupying group in the Pine Ridge Tribal Building. The Dakota Sioux Nation is rallying behind this show of solidarity and support.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


A recent AP, early morning offering. Michael, you ought to contact Chet, the journalist mentioned...

Oglala Sioux protesters take control of tribal headquarters
CHET BROKAW, Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, January 18, 2000

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2000/01/18/national0205EST0441.DTL

[Fair Use: For Educational/Research Purposes Only]

(01-18) 09:05 PST PINE RIDGE, S.D. (AP) -- About 100 Oglala Sioux occupying their tribal headquarters are demanding a federal investigation and the resignations of the treasurer and some members of the governing council.

``We're not giving up here until these demands are met,'' group spokesman Dale Looks Twice said Monday. ``But we don't anticipate violence unless they pursue the violence.

``We're a peaceful group. We've got women and children in this building. We're unarmed.''

The group, which is allied with tribal President Harold Dean Salway, took control of the building on the Pine Ridge Reservation on Sunday.

The protesters are calling for an audit, for the FBI to seize tribal records dealing with law enforcement, housing and other programs, and the immediate resignation of Treasurer Wesley ``Chuck'' Jacobs. They initially said they wanted the resignations of all 17 members of the council, but Looks Twice said today they want eight members ousted.

``The bottom line is, we want accountability and responsibility by our elected officials,'' Looks Twice said.

He said that three members of the five-member executive board had voted to authorize the FBI to retrieve financial records.

The FBI could take the records if authorized by the tribe, said Mark Vukelich, FBI senior supervisory agent in Rapid City. But he said the agency had not seen the board's resolution.

Members of the council have voted to throw the protesters out of the building and have tribal law officers enforce bans on the spread of false propaganda and actions that interfere with council business.

On Sunday, federal agents seized paper files and computer records from the Oglala Sioux Housing Authority. U.S. Attorney Ted McBride said the warrant was related to an investigation of programs funded by the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Salway signed an order late Monday suspending Jacobs for a second time. He suspended Jacobs in October for allegedly mismanaging tribal funds, but a tribal judge lreinstated him.

Jacobs has denied the allegations of mismanagement of tribal or federal funds.

Most of the tribe's 12,100 members live on the reservation, one of the nation's poorest areas.



-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


And for what its not worth. Gotta run now.

Diane

Sioux Falls - Links to News Sources

http:// www.siouxfalls.org/news/linkstonews.html

Argus Leader, Sioux Falls (lousey newspaper web-site)

http://www.argusleader.com

Rapid City (worthless)

http:// www.newquestcity.com/cities/sd/news/1125.htm



-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


Dear Rev. Thought of one other thing, (better late than never) Remind the folks that if the 'Tribal Enforcers' start to roll in to forcibly remove the protestors, to make sure that they follow Ghandi's Rules of Passive Civil Disobedience. (My Lil Brothers suggestion actually, said that nothing makes the police and feds look worse than to be physically forced to remove 'dead-weight' protestors.)
Tell your people to make NO AGGRESSIVE MOVES TOWARDS THE LAW OR THEIR DESIGNATES!!. This will get more mileage in the media and other outlets if they (the bad guys) attempt a Seattle-like assault or anything else. Ghandi, just another Indian for Peace.

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), January 18, 2000.

Diane, gee thanks more work for the weary - eh? LoL

Billy, my friend, that was Rule #1 when they started this. :-)

History will see that SOME things have changed, and in so doing, EVERYTHING has changed with it.

But I will pass on reminder in next phone conversation with the group.

Thanks for the continued support and insights.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


A direct request has just come in ....

The leaders and organizers of this entire movement are pleading for help in getting the truth onto mainstream and network news ....

Two additional, as yet undisclosed, Nations have now declared their total independence from the US government and a third from Canada.

Formal press releases are expected sometime today.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Is it wise to ask the FBI to do anything on one's behalf ? Remember the Mexican (non-Aztec) coastal tribes thought Hernan Cortez could help them throw off the Aztecs in the 1530's ...

-- mr. x (x@x.x), January 18, 2000.

Billy:

Message has been delivered. They said to tell you thank you.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Uh Oh...Looks like The Squirrel King is getting on Board too...

LINK

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), January 18, 2000.


LoL

Oh that fury critter .... he's a hoot! At least his heart is in the right place, for once.

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Critical Update 12:55pm

The occupying leadership's secretary has asked me to pass on the following message:

"Any resolution or act by the Tribal Council is illegal and does not carry any authority without the presence of the Tribal President. The Tribal President is part of the group inside the Tribal Building, so there can be no formal meeting of the Tribal Council at this time."

Rev. Thunderlight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Many reading through this thread may not be familiar with what has gone before. . These links may provide some background on the present situation at Pine Ridge. Recent history is not encouraging.

Recollection (Jon Lurie, March 1998)

The Covert War Against Native Americans (Ward Churchill, no date)

Past and Present at Wounded Knee (Robert Allen Warrior, 1997)

Interview with Leonard Peltier (Peter Worthington, Toronto Sun, May 30, 1999)

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), January 18, 2000.


Thank you for the contribution Tom. It is greatly appreciated.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

In light of the current drought, and because I know eight years in Minneapolis that it gets real cold where you are, Mind Dancr does a little dance, hoping to rain on the parade of the same folks who invaded the homes of Y2K preparers. Week waak minimini oskie week waak wee, week wak woh...

Off to see what Indians I can find on search engines.

Check out CNN's Coverage.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 18, 2000.


Call for Action to all worldwide in solidarity with the Sioux Nation under siege. Message for America- Kicking Bear's vision with the Messiah "...I am going to talk to you about your relatives who are dead. I will teach you how to dance a new dance....except for a slight difference in rituals, its tenets are the same as any other Christian Church. You must not hurt anybody or do harm to anyone, the Messiah commanded. Nonviolence and brotherly love are the doctrine. The Messiah himself will bring the resurrection...."

More words of wisdom from Red Cloud in those black days of the 1890's "...There was no hope left on earth. And God seemed to have forgotten us. Some said they could see the Son of God. Others did not see HIM. If he had come, he would do some great things as he had done before. But we doubted it, because we had seen neither him nor his work. But the people did not know and did not care, they SNATCHED at this hope. They screamed like crazy men to HIM for their mercy and they caught at this promise they heard that HE had made. The white men became frightened and called for more soldiers. We were begging for our lives and the white men thought we were calling to take theirs. We heard that soldiers were coming but we did not fear. We hoped that we could tell them our troubles and get some help. A white man said that the soldiers intended to kill us. We did not believe him. But some became frightened and ran away to the Badlands..."

A century of oppression later...The spirit of Red Cloud will soon move across the sky and reveal his countenance between Sun and Moon. Children of the earth must dance with joy. Peace to all the nations.

-- Nokomis (manitou@gitchegummee.com), January 18, 2000.


Greetings to everyone, especially Rev. Thunderlight.

I've been following the Pine Ridge incedent since I first saw an article on it last night (17 Jan). My prayers are with all those involved including friends and relatives not on site. To everyone, DONT GIVE UP! I'm not Native American [and don't pretend to be so], but I am just as disgusted with the way the government as treated, and is treating you. Things must change and maybe, just maybe, this incident will wake people up and start a grassroots movement.

We cannot let another Wounded Knee, Waco, or Ruby Ridge happen again.

-- DJ IceWave (N8RXG@wnol.net), January 18, 2000.


If any of you here want to know the REAL TRUTH of what is happening in Pine Ridge, I would strongly advise you to contact KILI Radio, located in Porcupine SD, and the only Native Station on the Reservation. Their phone number is (605) 867-5002. You may not want to hear this, but there are NO "big guns" being brought in by the FBI..this is the PEOPLE THEMSELVES, standing up against corruption in Tribal Government, which is the best thing that could possibly happen for the good of the PEOPLE! IMHO, all your commentary here designed to incite others to riot is abominable...why don't you find out the REAL TRUTH before you post anything at all, so any who would truly support the People can do so in a constructive and helpful way rather than listening to your destructive & inflammatory commentary!!!

I would STRONG URGE any of you who are in support of the People to use your voice of reason, find out the true facts of this situation and then decide for yourselves the most rational course of support and what you can really do to help the People rather than creating a violent situation where none exists.

-- (wiyaka@n-link.com), January 18, 2000.


Red Moon Eclipse this Thursday

-- you don't suppose? (prophecy@veiled.times), January 18, 2000.

Time stamp - - - - 1600 EST, 2100Z (UTC for purists)

I seem to have missed where Rev Thunderlight or ANY of the reports from the scene are inciting ANYTHING but prayers.

Could be I'm dense.

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 18, 2000.


Woo-hoo! NPR slotted the story for the first time in its 4 p.m. (EST) break. Short, standard wire version, but, hey, it's a start. We'll see what turns up on All Things Considered.

peace 'n' prayers! megisi

-- D. Sanders (megisi2@aol.com), January 18, 2000.


Hi, logging in from work...my ISP server connection went down about 1 am and I haven't been able to get on since... (hmmm) (I'm leery of doing too much here---this place frowns on non-work-related stuff---but I wanted to pass on that a friend has contacted a talk show about what's going on. From him: ------------------- I got a very positive response from Michael Moore's contact (I believe it was his daughter Veronica), and I was told that Michael would be informed of this directly. They take this kind of thing *very* seriously... ------------------- I will try to pass on some of the contact info from this list.

Apparently, he has an activist website at http://www.michaelmoore.com I checked it, and it sure looks like a good forum.

Jane

-- Jane Beckman (jilara@best.com), January 18, 2000.


Update - 2:10pm

I just got off of the phone with David Bresnahan of WorldNetDaily. He is taking a flight to Pine Ridge as soon as possible. I have already gotten him clearance into the Tribal building. Will update on this development asap.

Rev. ThunderLight

-- hiding in plain (sight@edge of.nowhere), January 18, 2000.


Quick lurk, to work... aside question for wiyaka@n-link.com... so how far away from SD is Killeen, TX?

He'll know what I mean.

My prayers are with this people trying to encourage justice, and truth. And peacefully.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 18, 2000.


I don't think anyone want a riot. We all WANT a peaceful ending.

-- Dan W (danwmsu@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.

1) Goes to show how important third party audits are...

2) I will continue to pray that "hidden things be revealed..."

(and, no, I don't do financial audits...)

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), January 18, 2000.


Diane, we have driven from Waco, TX to Sioux Falls SD in 21 hours straight. By plane or helicopter, I don't know. No signs of movement here.

-- mommacarestx (nospam@thanks.com), January 18, 2000.

Let's close this thread down and go to :

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002LoM which links as:

Thread Two



Chuck
(It just makes archiving SO much EASIER!!!)

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 18, 2000.


From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California Time: Tuesday, January 18th, 2000 1343 i.e. 1:43 PM Pacific Time Search "engines". Get it? (Little joke very little.) Anyway I'm noticing some considerable degradation of service which may or may not be due to the fact that this thread is getting so very long and that there is a goodly number of us reloading it every few minutes looking for an update. I believe we can greatly improve our reaction time by breaking to a new thread. What's more important here is the support we can provide to these sleep deprived people, and now how long we can get our thread to be. I don't mean to be presumptuous in this, knowing that you've earlier asked to keep everything on one thread for continuity reasons It seems to me as though we can smoothly move to Chapter #2, by putting a big old link right here:
Click Here! The Ongoing Situation at Pine Ridge Reservation - Day Two
 

and not here
|
V



-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), January 18, 2000.

Hiding: Seems to me that the most important thing is to keep those records out of the hands of any Federal officer. We're praying for you. God bless all of you heroes.

-- Liz (lizpavek@hotmail.com), January 18, 2000.

whats the deal on the Hemp disagreement?

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/config.pl?read=1171

-- deep cover (still@doom.er), January 18, 2000.


I have received a message from MoringAngl for Rev ThunderLight

Free internet phone service is available to the Continental United States via the internet connection at Dialpad.com

-- Run Silent (dr@thecompound.com), January 18, 2000.


Syio,Red Earth People, Remember that a "Eye for a Eye",will soon make the world go blind. We have been walking blind long enough.We must returned to the tree of life,and wake up from the "Walking Sleep"....

Wydo, Crow Hand....

-- Crow Hand (Redfoot@bellsouth.net), January 18, 2000.


"Sioux Falls - Links to News Sources

http:// www.siouxfalls.org/news/linkstonews.html

Argus Leader, Sioux Falls (lousey newspaper web-site)

http://www.argusleader.com

Rapid City (worthless) "

No offense...but...as you peruse the resources of South Dakota here...try to keep in mind that the state's population is only about 750,000...many farmers, many factory workers with only a highschool education (or less). For the population, I think this state has some pretty good resources--Dakota State University, for one thing.

But you don't get a lot of tax dollars from 750,000 people, and so what are they supposed to do? DSU's graduates along with most of the others who end up highly educated usually end up out of state where pay is better (and so do their taxes). The state is valiantly struggling to resist the "brain drain." Check out teachers' pay, for example. (I think I read somewhere that we might be lowest?) I'm originally from California, but I will still say that those from densely populated areas or relatively "wealthy" areas should get a clue and don't be so judgemental! What's the point of insulting people because they don't have access to the luxuries you do, after all. We're not calling you "wimpy" because of your warm winters, are we? (...naaah...) :-)

-- S. Kohl (kohl@hcpd.com), January 18, 2000.


Jan18, 2000 00:45 PT Pine Ridge: Tecumseh's and MLK's True Vision By J.J. Johnson

On January 18, 2000 at about 5:30 am, Pacific Time, this office placed an urgent message at a message center that has been closely monitoring the ongoing events at the Pine Ridge Reservation in Southern South Dakota. We believe that message in part that compelled other news organizations, as well as onlookers to begin to ask some serious questions about the situation itself. (Copy of the message can found at SierraTimes.com)

This is no time to hang heads in shame.

This Pine Ridge Standoff is not over by any means. Information leads us to believe that there will be no Waco or Wounded Knee at Pine Ridge in the near future. This information was never reported by SierraTimes.com, and this office has nothing to apologize for. There was much more information gathered by this office than was made available at out web site. Some of it was simply unverifiable.

At the time of this writing, there are still hundreds of people occupying a Tribal Office building. There is still a law enforcement presence. There are still issues to be resolved. There is still a standoff. No, this is not Waco, or Wounded Knee, but via the Internet, we have all been made aware of the longest and bloodiest federal standoff in this nations history.

While we fight over the issues of Confederate Flags, the right to keep and bear arms, and losing our property rights, we have learned that there are many among us that have no flag to wave. They have suffered under our rights to bear arms, and they have lost much of the property that was guaranteed to them. Their ancestors, like many of ours, fought and died for both their country and cultures, as well as ours.

To our Native Brethren: You have shown us that your struggle for Sovereignty and Justice is our struggle as well. Whether is the BIA, the FBI, the BLM, the ATF, or the IRS. Alphabet soup is alphabet soup regardless of whom it is served to. Injustice is injustice, regardless of bloodline. Do not despair.

In the last 48 hours, you have seen a glimpse of Tecumsehs vision  A vision of Native peoples coming together as one people in defense of their brethren against the forces from Washington, D.C.

In the last few years, we who live outside your reservations learn that a man cannot walk free with Wounded Knees. From Philadelphia, to Waco, to Oklahoma, to todays federal land grabs, we have suffered our share of Wounded Knees. Let us not walk away from each other, as we have parted from ourselves so much in the past. Let us hold one another up on our knees and walk toward our own Destiny, our own Liberty, our own Sovereignty - together.

There are many who will turn their backs from this story since they will have no bloody flag to wave. We will not. SierraTimes.com will remain on this story and others among our native people. The Sierra Times was created to bring people of the West together to share their courage, hopes and dreams in the struggle against injustice in the Mountains, and the Great Plains. This News service shall not turn away from its responsibilities. I, for one have no reservations to stand up and say:

He is my Brother. And as my Brother, he has certain inalienable rights that come from a Power Greater than ourselves  not from a Government, or a wrinkled piece of paper.

Do not walk away. Use the Spirit of Unity that engulfed us to rebuild the pride that our ancestors had in this land, and in our people. Our hands reach out to you to work together to restore this land to its greatness.

The Native People of this continent are at a crossroads. You have the ability now to choose your own destiny. You have learned that you can all march to the same war drums. You have the power to remove the chains that have been placed on you. I will conclude this editorial with the statement I made in my urgent message

Help us help you.

Martin Luther King had a dream for my people. Tecumseh had a vision for his people. We must make that dream and that vision work for all of Our People.

J.J. Johnson Editor  SierraTimes.com http://wwwSierraTimes.com



-- J.J. Johnson (citizen@mindspring.com), January 19, 2000.


I'm part of a Y2k message glitch board, and this site was posted there. The moderator of the board closed the tread for the following reasons: (Please comment as to the validity of this.)

"This is stupid, irresponsible, and dangerous trash to be sending out. It is nothing but lies. There is NO standoff! There is no heat from the FEDs! There is NO media blackout-and in fact a radio station set up and transmitted from inside the Tribal building! Get some facts before you spout this garbage. don't know what game you people are playing by putting out this bunch of lies, but it needs to stop - RIGHT NOW! Pick up a phone and call the Tribal office. Speak to the people inside-ask to speak to the FBI- they are there AT THE REQUEST of the people inside. The FEDS are gathering evidence AT THE REQUEST of those inside."

-- Terry Ingalls (Long2BwHim@aol.com), January 19, 2000.


The sky is falling!!!!!!...The sky is falling!!!!!!...Give me a break

-- John Quezo (jquezo@mailcity.com), January 20, 2000.

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