The Detroit International Auto Show, Oil, Money and TEOTWAWKI

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The Detroit International Auto Show, Oil, Money and TEOTWAWKI

OK folks, let's boil off the H2O, and see just how much salt is in this non-potable water. "Nobody knows what's going to happen" is my vote for the #1 sound bite of Y2K. Both the doomers and the pollies used it frequently - and for good reason; because, nobody really KNEW what was going to happen. It's obvious, the feds wouldn't have built hidey holes if they knew. "Cascading cross defaults" was a real possibility - one that actually scared them. But guess what, the system survived. ANY failures that occur from this date forward are "containable" - IIFFFF (and that's a BIG if); if, the elites want them contained. They probably do, - or they would have played the Y2K card - and they DIDN'T. If a oil is a problem, it won't be for long. Come on folks, they can throw up huge shopping malls in less than a year after ground-breaking! Don't think for a monent that they can't gerry-rig a refinery in days or even hours. Rube Goldberg lives - believe me! Even if oil was a problem, an emergency gasohol program could be in place in a matter of weeks. One way or another, IF the elites want a stable economy to continue, they can do it. They have the means, they have the power. The only question is, do they have the "will?" It appears they do, or UN troops would have shut down the freeways by now. If that's what they wanted, IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. It didn't - so now what? We haven't had a serious downturn since the early eighties, and no depression in nearly TWO generations. The American President of Daimler-Chrysler was asked at the grand opening of the Detroit International Auto Show about his perception of the economy, "bubble.com", and "the future". He said, and I parrot-phrase, "I think we've established a new paradigm. The new information technoligies have diversified the economy to such an extent, that the old dependencies on heavy industry are no longer operable." In other words folks - this guy thinks the "business cycle" is dead. Guess what folks - HE'S RIGHT, IT ISSSS DEAD. In fact, IT NEVER WAS ALIVE TO BEGIN WITH! There's only one thing, and one thing ONLY over the last two hundred years that have caused economic downturns - or massive inflation - manipulation of the money supply. There's NEVER been in a downturn in the last two hundred years (in fact longer - but that's another history lesson), that was not IMMEDIATELY preceded by a sharp contraction of the money supply. Likewise, there has never been a sharp contraction of the money supply that was not immediately followed by an economic contraction. The Federal Reserve and the World's central banks have managed the money supply to fuel the information age - NOT the other way around. Their paradigm has not shifted. The elites of this world will keep the economy strong, and the stock market going up, until this fatted calf is ready for slaughter. You have doubts they have such control? Then listen to this audio series at this website:

THE MONEY MASTERS - http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/shaman/154/money.html

If you criticize this message without listening to the above first, then you truly are one of the sheeple and - as a member of the Illuminati once point it "A nation or world of people who will not use their intelligence are no better than animals which do not have intelligence. Such people are beasts of burden and steaks on the table by choice and consent." Examine everything, reserve judgment, keep digging;else, be a troll and "useless eater" - as Henry Kissinger once so eloquently put it. We'll get another depression - you can COUNT on it. It's only the "when" that's in question. You'll know it's coming when the FED starts drastically altering its behavior. Then you'll know. Until then, you're all just chasing your tails. TEOTWAWKI will happen when the elites feel like "steak" - and we're the steak. They want us micro-chipped and controlled. First they'll see just how far they can get in trying to get you sheeple to just line up and ask for it! I know plenty of pollies on this forum that would probably PAY to have it injected!! After watching how much the typical "clueless" American got scared about "Y2K terrorists" and "viruses" - but NOT Y2K ... well, if I were an elite, I'D BE ENCOURAGED! Maybe they can have "bubble.com" and THE NEW WORLD ORDER too! And if the sheeple go for it - then by God, let the good times rolllllll. Here's what to watch for in the short run. The smart card. If the American "sheeple" go for it, then bubble.com will likely continue. Hell, we just might see "Dow 30,000!" If not, watch the FED contract the money supply DIG TIME, and watch bubble.com and your pollianna hoopla go down the drain with it. Doomers - keep your preps, and the faith. Hopefully even the pollies in this country will wake up before its too late. BUT, if - and when, they do ... make sure you're out of the stock market .................................



-- Paradigm Shift (Info@magic.com), January 15, 2000

Answers

I now own the worlds gold cache. He who has the gold makes the rules. FORGET ABOUT THE US DOLLAR AND BILL GATES. IT'S NOW ABOUT ALEXANDER THE GREAT.

-- ALEXANDER THE GREAT (alexander@thegreat.gold), January 16, 2000.

A the G, you are either LL on tequila or some 12 year old up past his bed time. Either way, delete please

-- Nancy (wellsnl@hotmail.com), January 16, 2000.

Paragraph I:

"wouldn't have built hidey holes if they knew"

Do you really believe those were for y2k? Millions upon millions to get the musty smell outta the old "cuban missile crisis" holes, and set them up with state-of-the-art...And they continue to stockpile. Why? States already had emergency management centers. Y2K, real as it was (and is) remains a cover for continued fed operations.

============

Paragraph II:

huh? Kissinger coined that expression? Smart cards exist now. Are you talking about the national id's required in the US by October 2000? You think they're gonna have a chip, then the "string of thefts" will motivate sheeples to seek implant? Did you hear the stuff about Bin Laden's 2 brothers working for irridium?

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 16, 2000.


I don't know if this is the real and infamous Infomagic or an alter ego wannabe but if you are one and the same frankly you continue to show that you know very little about the embedded systems problems to be throwing in the towel so early, if indeed you are infomagic.

We've got an oil industry that has been experiencing problems. 2 desperate refineries have been in such production problems that they've had to go onto the open markets and buy gasoline at high premiums to cover their contractual obligations to their wholesaler/jobbers. These and other refineries have seen their incident rates of problems increasing and reportedly again due to embeddeds. IN fact, it is still too early to say, but we may be seeing the first stages of a a cascading crossfault situation in oil. Will we? I don't know. I'm just saying there is enough out there to indicate that as a future possibility. The real key won't come until after the end of the month, especially true out in the oil fields themselves.

You're not going to hear about these problems anytime soon. People keep asking me when we'll know. I really don't know. Things are pretty quiet and we've only got a half dozen refineries actually being publicly admitted to having problems...but there are many more also with problems. Are all? No, I doubt it. I know of at least 10 that are not reportedly experiencing any problems yet and probably won't because of those 10 they had very few embedded systems in the first place. Chevron, Exxon-Mobile, BP Amoco, Texaco, Shell, these are the folks with a lot of embeddeds to be worried about.

Now unlike you, infomagic... I NEVER stated it would be a 10. I argued against TEOTWAWKI all along. I knew better. I did argue for the stronger likelihood of a "7" if we had a system collapse of infrastructure at rollover... otherwise I pegged it at a "5" as worst case. It may not be that bad...but one thing is for certain, It ain't over. It's just getting started. We'll see how it plays out. When I know that nothing happened to embedded systems after Feb 1...and it may take a couple of weeks or more to know that...then if there's nothing then we can look at calling the game early, perhaps. But right now, there's problems and developing trends to suggest its just beginning.

Up until now I didn't make fun of you or other doomers. The only folks I made fun of were the pollies who twisted and distorted the facts and the data. To this day, I don't fault any doomer. YOU may become the exception if you now assume the polly role prematurely and attempt to polly troll like so many others. If so then our swords will cross as even now when I correct you for the malignments of fact that you attempt to create.

Frankly, it is still too early for those of us truely in the middle who understand the time parameters involved, it is still too early to write off the embeddeds systems. They are out there, they are actively going haywire and they are creating problems to life and limb both in the oil refineries and natural gas pipelines as well as in mfg like those 2 food plants that blew up last week.

In case you have not noticed it, the oil market is not collapsing like it was supposed to after "nothing happened" at Y2K. Problem was, things did start happening, quietly inside refineries and out in the fields. Things are going on. I can tell you that there have allready been some close calls in those refineries. Calls that could have shut those refineries down really quick and for extended periods.

It is still possible for a "5" to be developing...which could only work to create an energy crisis as great or greater than 1973/74 Arab oil embargo. Already we've seen one oil report published indicating the outlook now for a 4%shortfall in production (about the same as famous embargo)...Now why would we be anticipating a shortfall when we're supposed to have all this surplus and the OPEC boys are not tightening farther? Technically, even holding status quo at OPEC the glut would have remained but albeit greatly shrunken. Instead it is going to be a deficit??? What gives here, son??? I'll tell ya what gives, the oil industry is having production problems out the wazoo...and it just popped up after New years... We weren't hearing any of this stuff pre Y2K... but now NOW NOW all of a sudden...its

"oh, we've got a few production problems" and "Oh, btw, we may have a 4% production shortfall, but its nothing to get excited over. yada yada yada." ...

Now you just tell me that its all a big coincidence cannot possibly be related to Y2k, embeddeds and cascading cross-defaults because you've now come to realize the truth that Y2K was a big hoax. Your as much of a sheeple or more than any of those you've claimed to berate. What a sheeple first-class you have turneed out to be.

Keep in mind. I am not saying there is a "5" yet to come for certain. I'm saying it is still not only possible but VERY possible but no matter what.. it is still too early to conclude anything yet particularly with respect to oil.

TO show how stupid you are in regards to oil let's look at your quote:

"Don't think for a monent that they can't gerry-rig a refinery in days or even hours."

Refineries are never "jerry-rigged". Explosions kill people and break things in refineries. You get a cat-cracker exploding son, and let me tell ya, you'll be a couple or three years in getting that refinery back up in most cases. I know. I've been there and seen it first hand, more than once. Any serious explosion can occur by one false spark in the wrong place,& that goes for embeddeds too. A serious explosion in the cat or light ends and you're looking at many weeks to months. Hell's bells... bud, you can have a simple fire take down a refinery for as much as 90 days depending on circumstances. So don't give me any bulls**t about this because you don't know s**t about any thing related to refining and oil.

And furthermore, regarding gasohol... you'll be one sorry sucker if they ever put such a fuel out on the market. I had one car engine ruined by it...and with today's latest brand new cars loaded to the gills with computer chip sensors let me tell you, gasohol will ruin an engine real quick. A good way to get yourself walking. And I live in an area where most farmers who have had gasohol in their cars and trucks before won't touch the stuff. I know, because I know the guys who had their cars ruined by driving with it.

So that is strike two of two pitches regarding oil ... now go back home and think up something else equally stupid and come back and we'll do this all over again. Okay?

Furthermore $40 oil is a real possibility and who knows it may go a lot higher if things do indeed start cascading into cross defaults. I'd say $65.00 is not out of the question, nor even $100.00 under those circumstances. Now will it get there? I don't know. But if it does hit a "5" then yes, I'd see high enough prices to bust that bubble real good no matter what the Fed does. Also, expect to see a war too under such a scenario...Possibly involving Saddam again.

Now, I'd be tempted to talk about your money aspects, but I'll save that for some other fine folks except for this... TPTB answer are not omniscient, nor omnipotent...nor omnipresent they only think they are and that goes for their headmaster too. The Creator only allows them to go so far as it fits His prophetic time line. He will act when He is ready whenever that may be: now, 30 years from now, 100 years from now or 1000 years from now.

-- RC (racambab@mailcity.com), January 16, 2000.


RC,

GREAT answer but this guy is NOT InfoMagic - no way. Totally different writing style and IMagic has not modified his views one iota...

As for jerry-rigging refineries or oil platforms, dear oh dear, no way San Jose!!!

Keep the posts coming RC, ignore the braindead detracters, they would look at an oncoming train and say it was a virtual one.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 16, 2000.



Thanks Andy...

I wondered after I posted if maybe indeed I'd been misled.

Thanks for the tip.

-- RC (racambab@mailcity.com), January 16, 2000.


Thanks for the post RC. Do you have links for those down refineries? I've only seen a couple.

What is gasohol? Here in Minnesota we have 10% ethanol mandated in our gas. It doesn't mix well, has to be put in the tanker before it drives to the station. Its hard on 2-cycle engines and older cars. There were problems in the 80's when it was introduced because it would dissolve fuel tank deposits which clogged fuel lines.

-- John Littmann (LITTMANNJ@AOL.COM), January 16, 2000.


For the record, I'm not "InfoMagic." Infomagic signs off as "InfoMagic" - one word, not two. Yes I did "borrow" a reference to him, and if one wishes to "flame" me till hell freezes over for having done so - so be it. I wanted to sincerely thank RC for his informative and insightful post. In spite of my protestations, oil was - and still is - my biggest ongoing Y2K related concern. In a way, I was playing devil's advocate with oil, hoping to elicit the kind of "in your face" response that RC has so energetically posted. I agree, the FED is not omnipotent - but they are CLOSE. I did argue that they feared Y2K, which would abate any real arguement about actual omnipotence - even in terms of how they perceive themselves. I think a real oil problem on the magnitude of 1974 would cause the FED to mildly inflate the economy - and while that might cause a short term correction because the sheeple think the FED will contract in response - large stock buying by institutions and continued "easy money" will in short order send bubble.com to even more fantastic new heights; even WITH a 74 style oil crisis. The sheeple do too much driving in their big Expeditions and "Texas station wagons" anyway. They can use the Toyota and car pool a while if they have to. The media and institutional buying in the stock market would affect perceptions DRASTICALLY. Even with high gas prices, if Klinton says that problems and high prices are short term, I "think" the sheeple will listen. Notice I said I "think" - I don't KNOW. My jury is still out as well .....

-- Paradigm Shift (Info@magic.com), January 16, 2000.

Don't think for a monent that they can't gerry-rig a refinery in days or even hours????

You're so wrong it's not even funny.

-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), January 16, 2000.


RC,

Just for the record, Bruce Beach, for one postulates that an oil crisis could yet end up worse than a "5". His scenario flows like:

Processing trouble with oil/gas on Russian Siberian Pipeline.

Chechen guerillas sabotage refineries/pipelines.

Europe - east and west imperiled as Russia cannot deliver.

Oil price skyrockets causing severe global recession or worse.

Russia moves on neighboring oil producing countries.

Conflict escalates.

Boom.

I have seen little info on Russian oil reliability - only some far eastern villages not getting fuel deliveries. Although, given western "close calls" it seems probable that other refineries/pipelines worldwide might be experienceing similar or worse impact.

-- Bill P (porterwn@one.net), January 16, 2000.



Taking aim at the chairman of Diamler Chrysler and his "new paradigm" BS. The only "new paradigm" I see lots of high level business suits taking to heart is "The public is way stupider than we ever thought!" Look at the crap we can convince them to buy!"

"Hell let's invent a dot-com company that doesn't do anything and the say it's the greqatest thing since sliced bread. Then we can sit back laughing our a*ses off all the way to the bank while we watch the dumb SOB's bid the price of stock that's not even worth the cost of printing the certificates. And the dumb sheeples will bid the price up to several hundred bucks per worthless share, fighting each other all the way for the priviledge to lose their money to us!"

That's the new paradigm of our wondrous, modern, dot-com economy. Remind me of the Dr Suess story of the Star-Bellied Snitches. Anyone else?

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), January 16, 2000.


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