It is no longer quiet in here -- pressure and heating rising!

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Wow! it got hot in here all of the sudden. I wonder if there is a way to hook up an alternator to the intense emotions being generated in here and use them to produce alternative energy?

LadyLogic, I appreciate your tone of civility. However, I think the whole issue is a little more complex than what you represent in your note. Many people seem to have been wrong about y2k, including the government, CIA, the Senate committe to name a few. There is no need at this juncture to start the "blame game" and try to pin responsability on a few for generating a "hoax" or earning a living dealing with y2k remediation or preparation.

I personally don't know many people who emptied their bank accounts to prepare for y2k (I'm sure there are some). Most of my y2k preparation money went to Walmart, BJ's, Northern Tools and Home Depot. I bought Yourdon's book and Hyatt's and found them to be helpful and informative. I have bought a lot of books from a lot of people over the years, including Hal Lindsay (gee, I'm embarrassed) and Gary North (oops, where are those asbestos britches?). Selling books does not make Hyatt or Yourdon guilty of any crime.

Why does this issue have to be so polarized? Why is there so much antagonism? Can't we relax for a few months and wait for it to play out before we start trying to crucify doomers or pollies?

What if by April it is evident that there will be no significant economic repercussions from y2k? Do we have to find someone to blame? Can we not just be grateful for those who raised the alarm and those who worked hard and spent a lot of bucks to get it fixed? Why do we have to point fingers and attack people? My God! we overcame a potential global problem that was complex and difficult to clearly identify! Good job everyone! Now lets go back to real life.

Give Yourdon, Hyatt and North a break. Give it some time and perspective. If they were wrong, they will live with the consequences. If there was anyone who promoted or distorted y2k for personal gain, it will come out eventually. Why the rush to crucify them?

Well LadyLogic, there you have my humble thoughts. You seem like a nice person, although some times a little obsessed with correcting us doomers. I know, I know, there are a lot of doomers who are obsessed with proving themselves right and the pollies wrong. I too have been more than a little obsessed with this whole issue and I am clearly addicted to this forum! (smile - chuckle).

Well, I wonder whats next?........

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), January 13, 2000

Answers

Please don't feed the drunken trolls.

-- Me (me@me.me), January 13, 2000.

LL is always deleted from TB2000, so no point referencing anything she wrote. Yes, she can be nice, but she earned her DELETE status. Still, maybe they should give her another chance---she could get a crush on KOS.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), January 13, 2000.

As much as KOS makes me wince, I don't think even he deserves LL.

-- Mabel Dodge (Cynical@me.now), January 13, 2000.

Lady Logic:

Why is it that "they" i.e. Hyatt, Yordon, etc. as you say, "should have known." but that does NOT apply to you? Doesn't that mean that you "should have known"...and followed you own assessment? I mean, Hyatt and Yordon told it they way they saw it, based on the information they had available to them. Like, "shouldn't the govt. have known".....and NOT built the $50,000,000 command center...? and "shouldn't" the rest of the the world "known" and NOT spent the 500 billion?

And shouldn't we all quit looking to outside authority for our answers, and then *choosing* to follow them...and then, when it doesn't turn out the way we expected...again, putting the "blame"(?) on somebody outside of ourself.....cause we're so mad that we didn't do our *OWN* thinking, and study, and research??? Is'nt that kind of why so many are "putting it outside of themself"...the thinking, the making decisions AND "the blame"?

Does anyone see a pattern here?

Why didn't you "KNOW"? If it was 'oh so clear' to you....why didn't you write a paper like Dale Way did, and share your construction of reasoning with Hyatt...and address the issues he and Yordon brought up...address them specifically...and show by the sheer "logic" of it all how they were 'wrong'.

Or, if everybody 'knew' they were so off target...then shouldn't they have "known" that...and NOT followed, much less even considered anything the Hyatt and Yordon had to say?

How is it that "they" are supposed to "know" all this.....

but you aren't....?

Isn't that a bit illogical?

(or is it more logical to call that hypocracy?)

(or is it looking outside yourself for the answers, AND for som place outside of yourself to put the blame?

Therefore: How can you be mad at Hyatt or Yordon? That's illogical.

Totally Confuzed I am,

Sincerely baffeled,

-- Steve Meyers (SMeyers33@aol.com), January 13, 2000.


Jose- Good Afternoon! You may not hear this much, but I think your posts, your outlook and your observations are on target every time I read what you've said. I've followed you since you started posting (I have an attachment to Miami, and Florida in general). I have a 3yr old son and when I read what goes on here on this forum, I often compare it to his behavior at times.The difference is I can correct him without getting flamed or belittled.Some of the more 'heated' posts are nothing more than mean-spirited snipes. Take a lesson from the ducks that hang around most Florida lakes: when it's raining, they don't get soaked-it just rolls off their backs and doesn't bother them in the least. I'm still here for the same reason I started coming here- reports from other people, that I am free to evaluate for myself. I had stated on a previous post that anyone who is an adult doesn't need to feel guilty for prepping, doesn't need to blame others, and doesn't need to gloat-one way or another. But notice I said adults. Many times I have wondered about some of the people here,and how badly they MUST be the only ones who are right. This forum is a great place to study Human Nature, through the interesting topic of Y2K. I'll probably stick around a while more- there's still some gems amongst the sand, and we can keep siftin'!

on de rock

-- Walter (on de rock@northrock.bm), January 13, 2000.



The fact is, many of us merely reprioritized purchases...additional food (or sorts that we regularly used) and generator last year, and now we have some slight additional funds for fun and frivolity (e.g., taking my partner to a bridge tournament tomorrow). I do not feel in the least damaged by preparing...especially since I am now nicely prepared for the upcoming hurricane season! And when my cupboard is out of a staple, like, say, SPAM, I merely go down to the storage closed at pick up a can or three. I don't need to panic and rush out to the supermarket.

Then, too, with the recent stock market gyrations (been following the Nasdaq recently?), I'm not sure what the outcome will be in a couple of months...so I'm still playing it conservative. I do know that there are a lot of glitches out there...some of which I've seen first hand.

Blame. If I were to agree that there were a problem (which I don't), I wouldn't necessarily be in a rush to fix blame. That takes away energy from the solving of the problem...which should be the real emphasis! But, if you need to, blame me...so we could get on with life... I remember that during the past couple of years, some people were trying to fix blame, when the need was for remediating code...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), January 13, 2000.


Thanks Walter. I appreciate the kind words.

LadyLogic is a bit repetitive."They should have known.." (x3), "Poor saps emptying their bank accounts" (I think I already addressed that issue). etc, etc. ad nauseum.

Me: I guess you were right. I should know better than to try to feed the trolls. I thought I would just make one attempt to treat her like a lady. My bad.

jj: why don't you go mug somebody. You don't belong in here.

-- JoseMiami (caris@prodigy.net), January 13, 2000.


You've already been mugged,but you just don't know it.

-- lp (no1@home.n), January 13, 2000.

As other people have pointed out there is a small problem. Countries that did little or no remediation had few problems. If that is true then why did we have to remediate? If there was no problem what was all the money spent for? Do we thank people for fixing a non- existant problem?

I am puzzled by this. If there was a problem the people who fixed receive my whole hearted thanks. But please explain how some countries, India, China, and others, did nothing or almost nothing and had so few glitches?

Jose, you have been here long enough to know LL and how she seems to have "mood swings". Civility turning to spamming. I, for one, do not miss her on this forum, or, for that matter, I don't miss most of the pollies inane comments lately.

-- Mr. Pinochle (pinochledd@aol.com), January 14, 2000.


Mabel: Do you like to ... uhh .. heck, I don't know. Something that doesn't make you wince, I guess....

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), January 14, 2000.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ