Posted by (12.78.237.46) Ken Decker on January 11, 2000 at 07:57:40:

I have received a handful of emails about the apparently unresolved matter of my military record. As I left the Time Bomb 2000 forum, a few of my regular attackers raised the issue of my military service (again). The issue arose after an otherwise well-intentioned woman called me a "boy." At 37 I'm well beyond boyhood. The woman had no idea of my life experiences including military service. In my opinion, the military can vastly accelerate the "maturing" process... making some much older than their chronological age.

For the past 18 months, I've avoided talking about the details of my personal life. I'm proud of my accomplishments, but I'm reluctant to trumpet them in the manner of a Steve Heller. I don't mind being judged on what I've written... but I dislike the slur that I have somehow lied about my military service. Particularly because these attacks are coming from nasty little people like "Old Git."

For the record, I orginally served on active duty from 1982 to 1985 in the United States Navy. I joined the Naval Reserves and remained in active status in 1992. My time in the Naval Reserves included some active service. Initially, I served on an amphibious warfare ship. In the reserves, I moved into the "brown water" Navy. My reserve unit was a mobile recon unit with electronic surface and subsurface surveillance capabilities. When activated, my unit's missions were usually classified.

I decline to discuss specific operations... but in my ten years I earned the usual "gedunk" ribbons and a folder full of commendations. I was nominated twice for the Navy Achievement Medal... awarded it once. While my first active tour was during peacetime, I buried three shipmates... two that died "in the line of duty." I helped fight two major fires onboard ship. As for the reserves, I can only say that I have friends who are living proof of "Gulf War Syndrome." While I love the Republic, we have been betrayed by the government... again.

I don't think any of this makes me special. There are men and women who have done much more for their country. I do think I've earned the right to be called a "veteran." In the truest words of a sailor, Old Git and the others can take all of my service record, fold it to all sharp corners... and stick in their ass.

-- (Found@Debonkers.com), January 11, 2000

Answers

I never doubted Ken was a squid.

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), January 11, 2000.

If memory serves, Ken Decker published a farewell on TB2000 just a few days ago and was almost love-bombed in return. Why don't we just leave it lie?

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), January 11, 2000.

If Flint is a contrarian, and Hoff is a masochist, then surely Ken is a glutton for punishment...

-- (@ .), January 11, 2000.

Still, you have to shake your head at some of these people. They attack Decker for NOT talking about his military experience, and when he posts it they attack him for doing so!

As a general reflection of the intelligence displayed around here, this is sadly typical.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), January 11, 2000.

Dear Flint,

Again i get to agree with you. HOWEVER the problem this time is that the few respondents have demonstrated the REMARKABLE (NOT) level of reading COMPREHENSION that is so frustrating to some of us here- abouts.

YO DOLTS!! LISTEN UP!! Mr D CLEARLY DID NOT POST THIS HERE!!!!!!

GADS IT'S WRITEN IN QUITE PLAIN ENGLISH!!!!!!

THIS WAS POSTED ON ANOTHER FORUM AND CROSSPOSTED HERE!!!!!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE BUY A FREAKIN CLUE SOME WHERE!!!!!

They aren't all that expensive.

Chuck

who is so frustrated it ain't worth trotting out the altar-ego.

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), January 11, 2000.

Well, count me among the idiots who have absolutely no reading comprehension, but what's at issue here?

Is Decker not telling the truth, or exaggerating his service record?

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), January 11, 2000.

Folks:

I agree with Flint and Chuck. I also agree with Decker [even though he didn't say it here; a reaction that I understand]. All that is important is what he had to say. I find some of that questionable. I am not a great believer in the wisdom of economists [I have to work with them]. Nothing else is relevant. Don't say that I don't remember all of the things that he has said. I have been here since [way back] in 98. I have read it all. I just don't understand all of this petty sniping. For the purpose of this forum, I wouldn't care if Decker was a Nazi-sympathizing traitor [which he isn't]. I am only interested in his ideas.

Best wishes

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 11, 2000.

I don't understand why he didn't just say this on the thread that caused all of the uproar about this subject. I think that doing so would have ended the speculation then and there.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), January 11, 2000.

Bemused,

I don't know. I guess it depends on whether they have foxholes, as Ken discussed, on Navy ships and whether being on a ship during peacetime where two shipmates died in the line of duty is the same as giving the orders that sent friends into harm's way, and presenting their widows with folded flags, as Ken claimed. Your call...

-- (ccc@ccc.ccc), January 11, 2000.

Unc. Deedah:

It is a man thing not a guy thing. For an explanation read Dave Barry's complete guide to guys. I would have done what he did. But 37 is pretty young for a world view.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 11, 2000.

I wonder just who posted this here? Could it be cockroack kenny himself?? We all know he promised to leave. Care to bet whether or not he will keep his word on the matter? (clue: don't bet the ranch)

Attacking Old Git is quite illustrative of Decker's over-all personality. She has style, wit, originality, creativity, and can blow him away in the writing skills department. Moreover, she has empathy for her fellow human beings...something that is clearly lacking in Decker's character. Let us pray to the almighty that he is gone and will remain so.

-- catfish joe (joe6pack@bottomdweller.net), January 11, 2000.

As I recall, Decker said he had ordered his friends into battle, and then "folded the flag",etc to give to their grieving family members? Was that about right Michael E???? Did anyone inquire about Decker at his hometown's web page??(www.libbymontana.com) If so, is there anything to be learned there that would shed light on what's wrong with this sorry excuse of a person?

-- LongTimeLurker (LongTimeLurker@lurk.com), January 11, 2000.

You forgot the response to that post and the rest of the thread.

http://stand77.com/wwwboard/messages/10726.html

Posted by (208.150.169.34) Doc on January 11, 2000 at 08:25:03:

In Reply to: My military record... posted by Ken Decker on January 11, 2000 at 07:57:40:

Ken,

I appreciate your time and effort in the US Military. I don't care to debate you on any points, as I feel that you deserve to be respected for your time and energy you put into these boards.

Old Git is a truely dispicable person, and countless times I've been called "boy", "kid", "juevenile" by the regulars of TB2K. It's their own little form of character assassination when the facts are not easily hidden behind FUD. In fact, sometime the only time you hear from some of the doomers on TB2K is when they call someone names. Nadine Zint comes to mind when I see someone who relentlessly resorts to classifying someone as a child when they are hopelessly out of any substantial arguments.

Sad.

But I would like to point out something about Gulf War Syndrome. In my studies, GWS has not been linked to any covert activities nor chemical attacks on our forces. Ken, as hard it may be to hear it, Gulf War Syndrome was an intential money making scam.

As you may know, Diet Sodas contain a sweetener known as Aspartame. Unfortunately, aspertame breaks down into three trace elements when exposed to heat about a certain temperature. Body heat will make it break down somewhat, but higher temperatures will further the decomposition into dangerous elements.

The USA shipped over tons of cases of diet soda to the troops in the Gulf, and there they sat in the Saudi Arabian sun, sometimes for days and weeks before they were distributed, reaching temps of over 115 degrees Fahrenheit.. When Aspertame breaks down, it breaks down into three elements the most dangerous being Ethanol, which causes nerve damage and memory loss, (and also Fomaldyhyde the chemical used to preserve tissue). The diet cola company knows this ( I won't name names) but they don't care to hurt their own business by releasing the findings of reputable physicians.

Here are some links about people having seizures and actually dying from it.

http://dem0nmac.mgh.harvard.edu/forum/PorphyriaF/12.17.981.35PMAsperta me.html

http://server.physiol.arizona.edu/Physiology/Forum/FORUMArticles/1999/ February/UKVWLf.html

Also, type the word ASPERTAME into a web searcher and you will find many documented accounts of doctors vehemontly opposed to this horrible sugar substitute, aspertame.

Read about Aspertame ---> Neotame Transition

Follow Ups:

Debunking Aspartame ... 09:18:50 01/11/00 (4) Sorry we disagree, but I see the dangers involved. Doc 11:44:20 01/11/00 (3) What are the qualifications of the people you recommend? ... 12:12:04 01/11/00 (2) I'm not going to argue... you presented your case, and it's up to the reader to make up his/her individual mind. If you want to drink it fine... but I'm not going to... thank you drive through. (n/t) Doc 12:29:36 01/11/00 (1) I guess it's a lesser point, but why do you think they put that warning THIS PRODUCT HAS BEEN SHOWN TO CAUSE CANCER IN LABRATORY ANIMALS on packages of Nutrasweet??? ( Just a little something to think about ). (n/t) Doc 12:57:45 01/11/00 (0)

-- Ifound (something@debonkers.too), January 11, 2000.

Lady L,

You are admirably persistant

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), January 11, 2000.

Folks:

We need to stay on message here. Start new threads on other subjects. This is about Decker. As a long time participant on this forum, I don't understand the unsubstantiated sniping that is going on. I guess it is as Hitler said near the end, it makes no difference now, all of the good ones are gone [or something near to that].

Best wishes,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 11, 2000.

I'm proud of my accomplishments, but I'm reluctant to trumpet them in the manner of a Steve Heller.

My "trumpeting", as he refers to it, has been only in response to those who question my right to comment on programming issues. But as long as we're referring to accomplishments, what happened to Decker's great expertise in economics? I haven't seen any verification for that. But then, I guess verification is required only for "doomers", not for "optimists", or whatever the current euphemism is.

-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), January 11, 2000.

Old Git:

It is you turn to say something. Steve has already responded.

Best wishes,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 11, 2000.

Hey Steve, check your ego at the door!

-- bouncer (bouncer@this.place), January 11, 2000.

Exactly WHY is Old Git being called upon to explain herself??? She's not the one acting like an ass here. Decker and Lady Logic have cornered that market!!Old Git has nothing to explain to you or anyone else.

-- LongTimeLurker (LongTimeLurker@lurk.com), January 11, 2000.

LTL:

I have conversed here with Old G for a long time. I wasn't asking here to explain herself. Knowing her [you get to know people after a few years on one of these sites], I thought that she might like to respond.

Best wishes,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 11, 2000.

censorship is certainly alive and well here.maybe bill and hillary are not too bad after all, considering...

-- JR (ataecho@aol.com), January 11, 2000.

Seems to me that Ken Decker's goal is being pretty much met. While it isn't true immortality it seems to be getting pretty close, at least around here. Can anyone think of YET another reason to bring him up?

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), January 11, 2000.

I was a patrol leader in the "Wolf" troop. Got lots of badges for stamp collecting, bird spotting and beer recognition.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 11, 2000.

As i've pleaded, many times: a la Jim Carrey, in 'Ace Ventura, Pet Detetive:'

DIE KEN DIE KEN DIE KEN DIE KEN DIE KEN DIE KEN

Actually I can withstand the boy. Sharp, eloquent, educated.

Just picked the wrong forum to jack with.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), January 11, 2000.

Well IF that IS true Andy, and you're not stretching the truth, would you be so kind as to prove it?

Here's an easy one, perhaps you might tell me which beer label has three Xs on it? What is the process that makes a lagered beer lagered? And, while I'm at it, since you are such a highly decorated birder, what is the common name for the "Coccyzus Erythropthalmus" and which one has the red orbital ring, the adult or the juvenile ?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), January 11, 2000.

JR....Just where the hell do you see ANY form of censorship on this thread??? Maybe I'm obtuse but I really see individuals posting what's on their mind. If this is censorship to you, I would hate to be in your version of a 'free' world.

Old Git....i wouldn't bother to answer. Ken didn't post this and wouldn't get your answer anyway.

-- Lobo (atthelair@yahoo.com), January 11, 2000.

Hi, Ken:

I'm glad to see that you knew I was well-intentioned. I was really just kidding you a little.

I'm only posting here because it seems that some people may have thought it was 'Old Git' who called you 'boy'.. I didn't really say it that way; I just said I understood why you were behaving the way you were in nagging Ed Yourdon to answer you in a way that pleased you. And I said it was because of your youth. You intimated that it could be a racist remark. And someone later on the thread said that any woman 70 years of age calls any male 'boy' - - ask his mother! I will only admit to 66, but I feel my children ( five, ages 36 to 44 ) are boys and a girl. It irritates them somewhat, also, for me to think that.

I want to say that I am thankful for all of the young people who have served, in peacetime or war, to defend our country. I hope your efforts have not been wasted, the way our president is giving our freedoms away.

I just sort of felt that you were being mean to Ed, who can well defend himself. Mercy and forbearance would be valuable assets for you to develop.

You shouldn't have taken your football and gone home. I miss you on TB2000.

-- Connie Iversen (hive@gte.net), January 12, 2000.

OK I'll have a stab at this. I was, however, using a little poetic license, Mon Uncle...

Well IF that IS true Andy, and you're not stretching the truth, would you be so kind as to prove it? Here's an easy one, perhaps you might tell me which beer label has three Xs on it?

******* Will Castlemaine XXXX do instead? *******

What is the process that makes a lagered beer lagered?

******* Not sure, but I do know the process that makes *me* lagered, and it's not a pretty sight :o) *******

And, while I'm at it, since you are such a highly decorated birder, what is the common name for the "Coccyzus Erythropthalmus" and which one has the red orbital ring, the adult or the juvenile ?

******* I ***DO*** apologise. My bird-spotting is strictly of the Homo Sapiens Hominid Femina 16+ persuasion. *******

Hic

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 12, 2000.

16 would be age of consent in the UK. Generally considered to be 18 here in the good ol USA BEFORE you all jump all over Andy about any underage cradle robbing. Let's get back to the subject of Ken and his military service record and whether it is pertinent to Y2k discussion by members of this forum. NOT.

-- Sally Hemmings (286yrsinUSA@slavery.com), January 12, 2000.

Thank you Sally - I thought it was 14 or even younger in some States, Jerry Lee Lewis etc.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 12, 2000.

I can't believe all the chatter re Decker. WHO CARES??? And is it necessary that someone has to go over to another forum and drag up this crap and bring it here? He is gone. Leave it be. Its a total waste of time, effort and band width. SURELY you have something better to worry about! Taz

-- Taz (Tassi123@aol.com), January 12, 2000.

Uh--Chuck???? Did I cause your overreaction? If so why didn't you just delete?

Now about this alter-ego.....

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), January 12, 2000.

AH HA! A FRAUD!

Mackeson XXX Stout (are you sure you're from Britian?)

Lagered beer is chilled during the fermenting process

The Black-billed Cuckoo

Adult

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), January 12, 2000.

I resemble that remark, fraud phtump!!! Mackeson? Does anyone drink that in the USA anymore? It's like that feeling I get when everyone assumes Brits ***really*** dring Watneys Red Barrel :o)

Old Peculiar Tanglefoot Headbanger Old Horizontal and, of course, Old Fart

OK Unc, let's see you put the above in order of ABV...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 12, 2000.

Ahhh yes, Ken was calm, literate, persistent, open minded, healthily skeptical and correct in the few predictions he made. Don't you just hate that? A polly with a brain who stuck to his guns, and turned out to be right. Shouldn't be allowed, should it? ;p

-- Servant (public_service@yahoo.com), January 12, 2000.

Sorry Andy ol chap, I'm not the one who was awarded beer rcognition badges, and what the hell is ABV?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), January 12, 2000.

Servant; There is a WAY to be correct and still be wrong. That was the issue. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

-- Michael Erskine (Osiris@urbanna.net), January 12, 2000.