I know nothing about computer software. but if all lines of code were not corrected (Ed says there are allways a % that get missed). how long will it take for the uncorrected lines of code to infect the rest of the system (if this were possible) to a point were it brings down the whole system. could this go unoticed till the point of failure ??. do any of you people out there have any experience of this kind of problem.IF IF this is possible could we really see planes fall out of the sky???could we see a build up of nukes powering down, oil refineries slowing prodution????

PS Britian is in the grip of a flu epedemic,is the US??

Best Wishes

-- bob (Bob@ghoward-oxley.demon.uk.), January 09, 2000

Answers

According to the CDC (Center for Disease Control), it is considered an outbreak of epedemic proportions in the US when we reached 7.1%.

We are currently at 7.4%.

don't have the link to their website, sorry.

-- jeremiah1 (jeremiah1@nowhere.com), January 09, 2000.

Ladylogic please answer the question, could a build up of uncorrected code result in system failure, would this go unnoticed???? IF it happens in billing what stops it happening in other systems???

PS Flu could it be connected to these chem trails????Death rate in one british hospital is up from 26 to 80 compared to the same period last xmas.

Best wishes.

-- bob (Bob@ghoward-oxley.demon.uk.), January 09, 2000.

Bob, I have yet to read one totally credible explanation of how an unremediated system can roll over just like a remediated system. We are in the Twilight Zone. Only ignorant and/or arrogant people will blow past this conundrum and claim to understand all there is to know about how systems can do this.

One angle I'm taking is that date problems don't cause the catastrophic failures (rate wise or percentage wise) that other classes of code might cause.

Another angle is that Unix systems may be handling the 19100 date problem (unremediated) without crashing because 19100 is actually a VALID date to a Unix system. Nobody ever thought of that before it happened (that I read - and I read a lot).

Unix systems running 19100 may function but their apps may have difficulties with the date they get from the system. Therefore, we might assume it reasonable to expect accounting errors, etc. in Unix systems, especially at month end or quarter end. Will these errors show up on the nightly news? Maybe. Probably not in most cases.

Which means that we may be looking at Y2k as a data corruption problem, primarily, and one that will not be seen or heard from until the corrupted data makes its way to an annual report or year end closing. Even month end closings in accounting or financial apps will be interesting.

This is a problem that may or may not become widespread enough to damage the economy. I really have no clue and I know of nobody that isn't either arrogant or ignorant or both that can honestly disagree. But people do disagree with that assessment. Their rationale is that the rollover went unpreturbed, and therefore the data integrity won't be a problem. I don't think that is logical thinking, but that is my take. We **know** whole countries like Italy went unremediated, and we know that there must be **some** effect from that. My take is that the effect is on the data integrity and that it will eat away at productivity and revenues like acid.

Will it destroy systems or cause failures of business? Probably a few, maybe more, probably not widespread disaster - but I really don't know. Just a guess. I've seen what data problems can do to productivity and I can certify that many data problems cannot be solved over night. They do cost money - sometimes a lot of money. And they can take a business down. We just don't know what we are dealing with here. There is an element of the unknown. There may be rogue problems in systems that will only show up in disruption of revenues, layoffs, and business failures - and that is something very difficult to guage and measure.

The businesses that go down to data integrity problems will be zero to low margin businesses, like HMOs, perhaps, while the deep pockets companies can maintain (and charge the customer for it).

We were wrong about date problems causing catastrophic failure on a wide scale - that is for sure - at least the immediate type failures on rollover. I do know that my first paycheck is Ok and my W2 looks Ok, so it's not as if all data is botched either. This is probably going to have serious but limited impact, and we just hope we are out of the line of its fire when it strikes. The problem is real, it's just more like a data problem than a catastrophic failure problem.

-- paul leblanc (bronyaur@gis.net), January 09, 2000.

I almost never get sick, but I spent New Year's Eve with a variety of flu that will make you crave the sweet release of death.

-- Pearlie Sweetcake (storestuff@home.now), January 09, 2000.

Nice to see Lady Logic finally expressing herself in a lucid manner.

Wonders never cease.

-- gary elliott (Gelliott@real.on.ca), January 09, 2000.

Bob,

The Federal government claimed to have 73,000 computer systems of which they originally claimed about 6,400 were Mission Critical. They subsequently lowered this Mission Critical figure to around 4,400. We NEVER had any status reported on the other 68,600 Non Mission Critical systems.

Interesting times ahead!!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), January 09, 2000.

Was listening to Seattle Air traffic control last Friday and caught part of a conversation between a commercial airliner and the controller....the controller had asked the pilot to do something to which the pilot responded "my computer cant even find Detroit" They then found alternate ways to comply with the course correction required.

-- Ann Fisher (zyax55a@prodigy.net), January 09, 2000.

Below is the URL for the CDC weekly flu report. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/flu/weekly.htm

-- Danny (dcox@ix.netcom.com), January 09, 2000.

URL:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/flu/weekly.htm

This is from the CDCs website about the flu; hope it helps.

Had it myself; nasty crap. Ended up giving it to all of my family(gave to the wife, she gave to her mother, who then gave to her husband/ wife's father. My father in law is in the hospital from it; he is 85 years old); I'm the only one truly back on my feet(I started to show signs of it on 12/17/2000; everyone else in my household had it in three days time); every one else is still sick.

Really put a crimp in my preps! Fortunately, I had been working on preparations for about two years. I am thankful that I only had a few small details to tend to before the rollover, even happier that I did not have to break out the heavy duty stuff.

My preps sure did come in handy, though! We didn't have to leave the house. We had food and meds to cover this mini-crisis, and it sure was nice not to have to get up and run to the drugstore or grocery store for needed things during an illness.

Peace Y'all,

Don

-- Shimoda (enlighten@me.com), January 09, 2000.

It's over. Give up. Y2K should be no longer of interest to the general public.

-- Travis Porco (tcporco@transbay.net), January 09, 2000.

Travis, it appears to be of interest to YOU!!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), January 09, 2000.

If I know anything about the way most organizations operate (at least the ones from my own experiences), they will wait until the uncorrected code creates so much corrupted data in their databases that the only way they can continue to function is to use pencil and paper.

The management think they are all finished with hiring outside programmers, and they spent so much money last year that they aren't going to want to hear about it. They'll usually say "deal with it" until the mess becomes an overwhelming disaster. Then they'll call a management staff meeting about using more emergency funds beyond the normal budget to hire some programmers to nurse the problems, but by then most programmers will be too busy.

If they get so incapacitated that the business loses it's ability to function effectively for more than a couple of weeks, it's lawyer time, to discuss their last resort options. Bankruptcy, and suing the piss out of those who were contracted to do the remediation. I don't think this will happen in Fortune 500 companies, but some of the small to medium size, yes.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), January 09, 2000.