I was planning on waiting until next month to post this, but in the event that Y2K indeed turns out to be a BITR, I thought I would get my admission of error, apology, and goodbye in now. This way, I avoid having my mea culpa lost in the shuffle when the runs on the forum begin by hordes of freshly converted doomers wishing to express their new found optimism.

First, the error part. I had feared a collapse, expected a depression, and knew for certain that we would at least experience a very bad recession. I was prepared to be wrong, but not way, way, WAY wrong. I guess the 550 days (and counting) of nightly prayers must have amounted to something, you think?

Next, I apologize to everyone I may have offended or misrepresented, polly, doomer and all those in bewteen, and in particular to

- Hoff, for insinuating that he was an incompetent lackey and for not acknowledging that his modern software expertise is world class

- Flint, for not treating him like the friend we once were

- Ken, for calling him a pompous ass, and for acting like one myself

- all the forum women, for seldom treating them like ladies

- the lawyers, bankers, politicians, government officials, corporate heads and global elite, for describing them as packs of wolves

- my family and friends, for apparently needlessly urging them to stock food and supplies

- my wife, for being hypnotized by the potential Y2K peril (OK OK, the meme)

- and to my best friend John, for, well, I forgot, whatever it was...

(I want to make it clear to AisA and @@@@ that this covers my transgressions only and is not a package deal :)

Now for the really hard part -- saying goodbye. I'll make it short and sweet. Goodbye, and good luck to everyone.

Note that I will probably be back lurking immediately, and posting again within two days, probably just as full of pee and vinegar as before. After all, I have some serious face to save...

But, sincerely, I hope that you accept my apologies, and also my thanks for making this a strangely interesting time, each and every one of you. I guess even you spammers contributed to making it 'interesting'.

Indeed if there is a lesson in this mess, it is that in life, it's not the destination, but the journey that is to be enjoyed, despite the obvious, apparent or possibly storm clouds on the horizon. And we should always remember that if we go back in our family trees far enough, we are all brothers and sisters. Here's hoping we can pretend we're not such distant ones.

-- a (a@a.a), January 08, 2000

Answers

I will miss reading your posts. Best wishes. Come back and visit...don't be stranger. Good night a, whoever you are. =)

-- Dee (T1Colt556@aol.com), January 08, 2000.

TAKE IT BACK..Take it back I tell ya'. That apology is not in order,and you have nothing to apologize for.(This applies to the "pack of wolves only"-you can go ahead and apologize for all the rest) All the best --a, I've read most all your posts, and thank you for your contributions. Take Care......

on de rock

-- Walter (on de rock@northrock.bm), January 08, 2000.

a

You don't owe me an apology but,

That is beautiful and comes from the heart.

Hope to see you in the chat room again eh!

-- Brian (imager@home.com), January 08, 2000.

So long and best wishes "a"! Go ahead and admit it: you really DO think kenny the cockroach is a pompous ass!!! It is easily proved by just scanning his posts for the past year. Be well and come back if/when you feel like it.

-- LongTimeLurker (LongTimeLurker@lurk.com), January 08, 2000.

Response to 'a'

---------------------

Subject: An admission of error, an apology, and a goodbye

I was planning on waiting until next month to post this, but in the event that Y2K indeed turns out to be a BITR, I thought I would get my admission of error, apology, and goodbye in now. This way, I avoid having my mea culpa lost in the shuffle when the runs on the forum begin by hordes of freshly converted doomers wishing to express their new found optimism.

(You know, people like you really make me scratch my head. We are only seven days into this and you capitulate. There are a MYRIAD of potential outcomes for this situation. ONE of them was a degree of catastrophic failures. they did not occur. Does that, in any way mean that the consequences will be nil? Nope.)

First, the error part. I had feared a collapse, expected a depression, and knew for certain that we would at least experience a very bad recession.

-- a (a@a.a)

=======================

And you feared that would all come about in what.......seven days? It could have gone very bad in seven days, but it did not. does that mean that we are scott free or out of the woods? Not on your life. You really never did have any depth of understanding, did you? Apparently you are not aware that from the onset in 1929, it took THREE years for the market to go from 400 to 40, a 90% drop. And then it took more than 20 years to go from 40 back to 400 again. And it took WORLD WAR II and the KOREAN WAR to do it.

The REAL underlying problem is the economy built upon fiat money and a mountain of debt. Y2K was only ONE in a long list of potential triggers.

I am amazed at the weak sisters with no depth of understanding and no strength of conviction in the face of ZERO evidence to say that we are off the hook.

One robin does not a summer make. In the very same way that pollyannas constantly shreiked that one failure should not be extrapolated to a system wide failure, the lack of apparent immediate failures should not be extrapolated into a successful remediation, by any means.

Yes, I thought that there was good reason to believe that we would see catastrophic failures from the onset. There were none reported, and I was wrong on THAT score.

But, there are a myriad of ways for the consequences to effect systems that may NEVER be seen as or reported as directly involving Y2K. One possible way that it could go down is a slow deterioration of services until it breaks the economic back, and no one will ever attribute it to Y2K. And, it does not matter if it IS attributable to Y2K or not.

Y2K or no Y2k the economy is on its last legs. It is going down. It is going down hard and it is going to collapse.

Paul Milne

Clinton: "I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky"

bks: "It was not overt lying. It was overgeneralization for rhetorical purposes."

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), January 08, 2000.

a,

God speed; it takes a man (or a woman) to admit they have been wrong. And please don't beat yourself up--y2k was something to get passionate about; it was not obvious last year that there would be no big deal. Betcha even most doomers did some prepping.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), January 08, 2000.

Apologize? For what?

I'll miss you, 'a' - the chat room won't be the same without you.

Take care, buddy.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), January 08, 2000.

'a':

I don't know if you recall, but there was a thread some months back asking us who we'd like to meet in person from this forum, and you were the one I selected. I simply couldn't understand why someone as clearly intelligent as you are chose to spend your time sniping, rather than developing and explaining the conclusions you had so obviously drawn. I simply couldn't accept that you could retain them if you examined them closely, and I couldn't believe you had done so.

And I'd *still* like to get together over a beer or 5 sometime. Could this be possible?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), January 08, 2000.

a,

so long - you will be missed - me, yup like Milne and 100% of pollies and doomers this took us all by surprise....

I'm not buying it yet, I'm on record as giving it 6 months, with the end of March showing Infomagic build-up signs, although it will never now thank God go to a 10.

Still a hell of a lot of potential here a, do stick around. Game has only just begun.

The economic game is in it's death throes - they will move heaven and earth to keep it going until the elections - we'll see :o)

And if Flint's buying I might just gate crash :o)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 08, 2000.

I can't believe you're baling out, a! In fact I WON'T believe it. Sweetie, The Hungarian and I thoroughly enjoyed meeting you guys and Lils and her husband, and hope we'll all connect again. Keep in touch!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), January 08, 2000.

Only a fellow doomer could appreciate the heartfeft expressions you made: it didn't turn out like we thought and I'm really glad. I have no desire to be a bit player in a Mad Maxx rerun, and I am sure you didn't want to either. But at least keep lurking, there's storm clouds brewing and we will need your insights. Next time, let's hope all of the posters can achieve something positive, and that this was our learning curve.

-- Sure M. Hopeful (Hopeful@future.com), January 08, 2000.

"a,"

I cannot question your passion or intelligence (though your devotion to Paul Milne always mystified me). Over beers with Flint, I imagine you and I could finally have decent a discussion about UFOs.

Your fears about a recession are justified... we just disagree on the underlying issues. By the way, when we were bumping heads, we were acting like BOTH pompous asses... no apology necessary.

I do you wish well, "a," and hope you never run out of chocolate syrup.

Warm regards,

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), January 08, 2000.

My initial reaction as I was reading your post, a, was that it was fraudulent. I couldn't get past the year-plus of, well, no need to dredge up bad memories.

I was wrong. Your post is everything I would could have hoped to read from you & several other longtime regulars.

I'm moved by your words. Even more so by the depth of feeling which comes through loudly & clearly.

It matters not that anyone forgives your transgressions. Except one - that you forgive yourself. And that you put into practice in your life the incredibly difficult lesson you've so elegantly, succinctly put to paper.

Apology accepted, a. I offer a firm cyber-handshake in return.

The very best to you & your family.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), January 08, 2000.

a -

You know I'm not in need of any apology from you and many were taken by surprise at the lack of problems around the rollover. I for one am exceptionally happy!

My fear now still resides where it always has. Y2k encompassed so many issues and it still does. It wasn't/isn't all about broken code and computers. There will be fallout even with the apparent success which is unfortunate. There is always a downside. I'm going to keep watch for awhile.

It struck me last night that if the people who have been following this stop following, investigating, questioning then if economic impacts resulting from Y2k glitches are coming it will become much more difficult to track them. Our "user base" will shrink and information will be much harder to come by. This goes for the contributions of both the optimists and the pessimists.

I thank everyone who has and will continue to offer real thoughtfulness and insight for sharing here.

I'm going to try to keep an open mind and simply keep watch for awhile. With the lawsuits, broken contracts, anger, resentment, budget cuts, layoffs, etc. that might be in our future it still will be an interesting topic. This will all evolove in ways we can't even imagine...just as the rollover did.

As Dale Way suggested, that lady hasn't sung yet...and Cory called it pretty close so far in his lastest WRP.

Take care brother and best wishes to your family.

Mike

====================================================

-- Mike Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), January 08, 2000.

a:

GAWD!! I can't believe it! Say it ain't so! This just cannot be! I am astounded! You are APOLOGIZING to Decker????!!!!!!!!!!! What the hell is WRONG with you?????!!!!! Double-GAWD!!!!

Ok, now that that is said ... there was something else. Wait a sec ... oh, yeah, now I remember: About this stuff about you leaving....

Hey, the cause was just -- alerting people to a potential danger that almost everyone wanted to blow off without even thinking about it. Your posts always had the effect of forcing people to think about it. Further, you brought a wealth of information and opinions from other sources (e.g., Milne, Hamasaki) that also had the effect of getting people to think about it.

The polls that you conducted on this forum stand as solid evidence even today that very few contributors to TB2000 literally expected the worst of worst case scenarios; like you, most of us expected severe economic hardships as a direct result of Y2K. At the same time, your polls showed that most of us did not by any means dismiss a Milne or Infomagic scenario, and thus many took steps to PREPARE for that (low probability) scenario.

The uncertainty of Y2K was such that it represented a potential danger worth preparing for. Make no mistake about that. The government certainly got prepared. Big industry, to a lesser extent, got prepared. Your contributions to this forum encouraged individuals and families to prepare. Pollies be damned, it was the sensbile thing to do, no ifs, ands or buts.

Good luck, dude. And a royal thank you.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), January 08, 2000.

"a",

Many thanks for your informative posts they were much appreciated. You put your heart into what you believed and for that you deserve much credit. I know you will be lurking at a minimum, it is hard to just say NO to something that has been part of one's life for as long as this forum has been part of yours.

Paul,

I have long said that we are confronting a depression worse than that of the 1930's with or without y2k. The trigger may be y2k or it may be something NO ONE is aware of today. IMHO y2k will affect our country and the world for many years to come. TPTB will use every trick in the book to take the blame off of themselves for their lack of leadership in the y2k arena but I believe the sheeple will figure it out in the end.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), January 08, 2000.

A goodbye present..

(m)

-kritter ;-)

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), January 08, 2000.

little a: Don't let the door hit you on the butt as you leave. JUST KIDDING. Some posters have more of value to say than others and you generally do/did. In the immortal words (modified) of Arnie -- "You'll be back".

big A (AisA)

-- A (A@AisA.com), January 08, 2000.

"a". I hope you don't stray too far, I have enjoyed reading your post since I first found this forum, and consider you to be one of the rocks upon which it is founded. It takes a lot of character to come out and say something the way you have, and even more to apologize to those scoundrels :-) Flint ,Hoff, and Decker. God bless you and yours, and may life bring you nothing but joy.

I myself am still looking for some drastic problems from the economy, like Paul. This thing was always a triple threat to me, Y2k, Fiat Money, and possible Nuclear war. Of the three fiat money was what seemed to be the only one which would be unavoidable, but even that now seems less certain. The FED has succeeded past my wildest dreams of keeping the bubble inflated, and they seem to have an inexaustable supply of rabbits to pull out of their hat. I am in the position now of having to rethink that whole issue, as my estimates of the effects of Y2K were so badly off.

-- Nikoli Krushev (Doomsday@y2000.com), January 08, 2000.

a,

Your post is most eloquent. And the spirit of it is most welcome.

I think we could all benefit from a bit of offering and receiving absolution for some of the flaming imprecations over the past months.

Pollies, you had it figured better than the doomers. And I am thankful for that. I am at a loss to understand how error-free the rollover was, or how so many knowledgeable people could be so far apart in their evaluation of the problem. Time will, perhaps, change our understanding of the issue, but for now, it certainly looks rosey.

I honestly can't recall flaming anyone since I have been on the forum (can't recall flaming anyone, ever, actually), but I have expressed disagreement and if in the process I have been rude or unkind, I humbly ask your forgiveness.

I hope that we can keep on together here. Or, at least somewhere. there will always be issues to debate - real or imagined. And there will always be people in need of help. Folks who can use some encouragement or (hopefully) some nice rice and keen beans.

During the past couple years, this forum has become a bit like an extended family to me. We sometimes bicker at home too, but that doesn't make us less family. I suggest we hang together. There is news here that never makes the TV or newspapers, and I have come to appreciate it. And the fact that we don't all agree increases the odds that someone will blow the whistle on bogus information. (I like that REAL well.)

Be well, a; and please stick around.

regards,

gene

-- gene (ekbaker@essex1.com), January 08, 2000.

Posts like this force me to the keyboard -- a lot of class, a.

-- PNG (png@gol.com), January 08, 2000.

BE STILL MY HEART!!!!

I thought I would pass out!

The creature known as a@a.a is actually apologizing! TEOTWAWKI!!!!

Now, if a few of the other extremists could show the same class that a@a.a has (but has kept VERY well hidden these past years!)....

lol!

-- Former Forum "Polly" (abused@by.theidiots), January 08, 2000.

Good luck a,

I've enjoyed the conversations.

I bought into the prep thing fully, but I've wavered from being optimistic to pessimistic.. None of us knew how it would turn out.. I suppose there is still a chance for problems, though that is diminishing daily.

It took a while for me to stop being angry, but after some thought, I'M GLAD I DID THIS.. I don't feel bad a bit that I did my best to provide for my family and friends. YOU SHOULD NOT EITHER.. Let it go.

Good luck Bryce

-- bryce (bryce@seanet.com), January 08, 2000.

a: Do you remember our heated exchanges back in April or May about Y2k and power? I sure do! Because of the verbal abuse, I chose to make my home at the euy2k site for the remainder of the year. Apology accepted, and I'd also like to join y'all if you have a "post- Y2k" get together. Are you ever going to "de-cloak"?

And don't leave just yet...I still have to settle my wager with Robert Cook (I'm working on the details now).

Anyway, see you around.

-- Dan (dgman19938@aol.com), January 08, 2000.

Was just reviewing some of the posts here, and saw this.

Had to break down. Well said, 'a'. For my part, I apologize for the "mini-Cory" routine.

Wouldn't take the Milne rant too seriously. Actually, being told by Milne you don't "have any depth of understanding" is probably as good an indication of intelligence as any.

Later

Ted

-- Hoffmeister (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), January 08, 2000.

Maybe we'll have another crisis and all get back together then...Until then, Good Luck and God Bless...

-- Uncle Bob (UNCLB0B@AOL.COM), January 08, 2000.

Hold up there, guy. This John Whitley fella is making me nervous.

Plus this Krempansky dude. Looks like Rendon gave him a six-month contract.... he doesn't appear to be in it for, oh, 2-3 hours.

-- lisa (lisa@dores.'a'), January 08, 2000.

I was so very wrong; forgive me. I love you guys!

-- (infotragic@devolving.techworld), January 08, 2000.

Many who lurk here may hope you remember the intrigue and come back sometime.

-- Will (righthere@home.now), January 08, 2000.

Hang around a i think we have more things coming down the road to debate.Maybe more serious than Y2k just think of the knowledge we have gained and we can take on a lot of subjects.

-- Ramen (Ramen@1234.com), January 08, 2000.

Let the games re-commence.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), January 08, 2000.

"a",

Don't be a stranger. This forum loses much without your contributions. Whatever your future holds, may it be filled with fortune, grace and laughter. You said, "Note that I will probably be back lurking immediately, and posting again within two days, probably just as full of pee and vinegar as before...". I'm counting on it!

-- (RUOK@yesiam.com), January 08, 2000.

Did I see the mention of chocolate syrup? C'mon 'a' don't stay away!

-- Pamela S (pamela_sue57@hotmail.com), January 08, 2000.

a,

I really didn't know you well, but I can see from your post here that your loved ones are very lucky to have someone with your courage and integrity. I wish you all the best.

Oh yes, come back with "piss and vinegar", not just "pee and vinegar." I know it's the same stuff, but the former somehow sounds a little more like you'd really be ready to -- how do they say it -- "rock and roll".

-- eve (123@4567.com), January 08, 2000.

a - dahling,

Thanks for all the sweet talk and very effective prayers. Happy day when we can both eat crow under the cheery glow of electric lights!

If anyone could have prayed y2k away it would be you. Many blessings to you and yours in this beautiful world.

-- River Soma (riversoma@aol.com), January 08, 2000.

Ah! Bravely spoken!

-- Count Vronsky (vronsky@anna.lit), January 08, 2000.

Damnit a! Now look what ya did! I'm blubbering in my beer, and diluting it all to hell. Crap.

Now who am I gonna exchange letcherous winks with when some sweet young thang walks by? Crap.

Stick around would ya bub? Ya make me laugh.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), January 08, 2000.

That was very touching...a glimpse into the man who persuaded a woman to give her heart and life to him...thanks...

-- Mumsie (shezdremn@aol.com), January 09, 2000.

A,

You were always a gentleman... I'll miss you terribly at chat!

God Bless and best wishes to you and yours.

Deb M.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), January 09, 2000.

I never doubted your intentions, 'a'. You have proven to any who may have (and are worth a shit), that you are in truth, a man of honor. So are many others who have been so brutally pelted lately.

I lurked for many months on this forum prior to my first post. I literally jumped in one evening after becoming so sickened by the intruder attacks and tired of other participants who often gave the impression our need to warn was dishonerable or unnecessary. Now they simply imply, "self-serving".

I was wrong to assume Flint enjoyed playing both sides of the fence. I now consider he was simply 'centered' and regret my attacks of doomer humor. It must take an appliance dolly to move his thick skin around the room with him, and I admire him for it.

Too bad Ken had a foot in each camp, so to speak. An attempt to bring us all together for one big group hug? Don't think so. Sorry.

I've been wrong about a number of things in my life. I wasn't wrong to be concerned about Y2K and I wasn't wrong about the company I kept on this forum. If my conclusions about Y2K turn out to be wrong, I'll be in good company and will never regret having participated in "The Dance", as described in a song by Garth Brookes.

Please continue to participate in the dance 'a'. The band is still playing.

With much admiration,

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), January 09, 2000.

Best wishes for you future aaa@. You have my respect...

-- Bob Brock (bbrock@i-america.net), January 09, 2000.

*Mona Lisa Smile*

a,

I cant tell you how many times people have said goodbye and returned within a few weeks. (We oughta create a separate category... maybe when there is a search engine again).

;-D

Do take a breather. Its refreshing for the spirit and for all your relations.

The Y2K song isnt over yet. Always thought the major impact would be... globally, economically, and in the supply-chains. That takes time to roll out.

Meantime, its refreshing to see corporations, and the dot govs, et. al., being put on the defensive to explain to their stockholders or constituients, on why they spent as much money as they did and to justify their expenditures in light of what could have happened had they not done so.

Shift Happens.

(See ya soon).

*Grin*

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 09, 2000.

a, we cringe at good-byes and refuse to believe them!
Denial can be useful sometimes ... ;^)

Have a great vacation!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), January 09, 2000.

Well done, "a".

-- Morgan (morgan96@netscape.net), January 09, 2000.