I thought you might find this VERY interesting, especially the title...

http://stand77.com/wwwboard/messages/10614.html

Let *2* BABIES (include the 15 yr.old mother)... stay with someone who stashes gasoline in his garage?? .....STAY TUNED........some of us DID something about this OFF LINE.

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Posted by (208.189.71.48) TROLL SPOTTER on January 08, 2000 at 05:00:01:

In Reply to: That's what I like about you... you're such a kind, loving person posted by Netghost on January 07, 2000 at 22:47:08:

DENNIS ..........DEFINES.............****IRRESPONSIBLE*******

AND YOU WANT TWO ***CHILDREN**** IN HIS *PROTECTION*?????????

TAKE A FLYING LEAP........ASSHOLE.

THAT ......."OFFER" ON THE INTERNET.....TRANSLATE TO........"BLACK MARKETING BABY"

GOT IT........??

CLEAR?????

=============>> ILLEGAL.....IN MOST STATES <---------------------

HORRIFIED.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

: : 26 posts on "poor" DENNIS. HE SPENT $20,000 for "preps" he didn't NEED.

: : HE "STUDIED" and blew 20K and people are supposed to "pray for him"??

: : LET HIM APPLY AT THE NEAREST BURGER KING.

: : DENNIS OLSON......COULD GO WITHOUT EATING......FAST FOR 30 DAYS.......AND STILL BE OVERWEIGHT. EASILY NEEDS TO TAKE OFF 50 pounds.

: : LET HIM LIVE OFF HIS PREPS FOR A WHILE AND GET OFF THE NET.

: : THESE TWITS ON HYATT'S LIST SHOULD ASK WHAT WAS DENNIS DOING INVOLVED IN A ****DE-FACTO*** AUCTIONING OF A BABY ON YOURDON_ AND OTHER LISTS.

: : CPR : : xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

: : : : : Dennis Olson : : : Member posted January 06, 2000 04:11 PM : : : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- : : : My client canceled my contract without notice. A buddy in the office emailed me Tuesday to say that everyone was talking about us, and how we made the FRONT PAGE of their local paper. Later that afternoon, my agent called to say that the client canceled the contract without warning. : : : What a nice guy that manager was, hmmmm?

: : : Well, now we're totally HOSED, and will soon have severe cashflow probs. (I was off 3 weeks for Christmas & rollover). So, we're already on the edge.

: : : A great way to ring in the new year, huh?

: : : Dennis

: : : : : : Your prayers would sure help here.... Thanks.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), January 08, 2000

Answers

Now this should really make Mr. Olson feel good. NOT!! I actually feel sorry for Dennis. Why post this crap?

-- (I'm@pol.ly), January 08, 2000.

"Why post this crap?"

Actually, I feel terrible for Dennis too. I think he did a wonderful thing by taking in the mother and child, especially considering the controversy around it. Dennis did not endanger the child/mother in any way, and in no way endorsed any illegal action. I believe he should be commended for his actions. However, it looks like there was some intended malice, and that some folk over at Debunkies may have had a hand in his recent misfortune. Hopefully, if it should go to court, then this could be used in Dennis' behalf and those responsible over at Debunkies would be charged for their malfeasance.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), January 08, 2000.

This whole Dennis Olson issue with the baby has transcended any traditional Polly Vs Doomer scenario. This guy is an embarrassment and the press has rightfully portrayed him has the fool he is. All of us on this and M. Hyatts forum have seen the venom spewed forth by Mr. Olson. What angers me more than his irresponsible actions are the morons that rush to support him. Here we have Deb M., who doesnt know jack about this situation first hand, telling all of us that Dennis has not endangered the Mother and Baby, and Dennis has not done anything illegal. How the F**K do you know you stupid B***H? Have you personally visited the Olsons in Wisconsin to check this out? Or as usual are you just running your big mouth off with no facts in hand. Stick to youre cut and pastes and shut the hell up about that which you know nothing about.

-- Bill Collector (paid@in.full), January 08, 2000.

Dennis, God bless. These people are malicious because that's who they are. Things will work out for you. You'll see. Best.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), January 08, 2000.

Bill Collector, how the fuc& do you know OTHERWISE, you stupid b#$tard???YOU don't follow Dennis Olson around 24 hours a day. How many people do YOU support???? How much food money have YOU taken from your CHILDREN to WASTE on whores and drugs and gambling/stock Market???? And if you DO follow Dennis around 24 hours a day, then he needs to have your sorry as$ ARRESTED. May you rot in Hell, Bill Collector. And excuse me for being nicer than you deserve.

-- DB (tomG@h.com), January 08, 2000.

DB,

Hello and thanks for the backing, I'm sure Dennis would appreciate the support too.

Bill Collector,

Wow Bill, looks like I hit a nerve! Hmmm, I wonder what your alias is over at Debunkies, you certainly do spew forth enough bile and hatred to meet their hazing requirements... Looks like you know you've made a BIG mistake in "helping behind the scenes" and made an even BIGGER mistake in bragging about it. I hope you and those others involved in misery-making pay dearly for it.

Do YOU follow Dennis around to know how he's treated the family? Are you some sort of super-ESP God who is omniscent and omnipotent (Look it up in the dictionary, dumbass!) and so know EXACTLY what's been done? Didn't think so - go take your Prozac and re-schedule your appointments with your Shrink... You know as little as everyone else does about it, you arrogant, malicious, anti-social, little-neighbor- children-laughing-at-you creep.

To Bill Collector and those on Debunkies:

May the misery you so dearly love to deal to others be returned to you a thousand fold. May despair and that same misery live with you always until you REPENT of the hatred and torment you so dearly love. May there be no contentment in your life until you have changed yourself so that you can contribute fully, with kindness and a good heart, towards society. May all of your hopes and dreams never come to fruition until the dreams you've intentionally destroyed be restored.

May your life be a living hell until you have repaired the lives you have intentionally destroyed. AND: May God fully forgive you when you have repented and made good towards those you have wronged.

May you have the wisdom to see your errors, soon, and to repent.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), January 08, 2000.

Hi Dennis - Peace!(chuckle. and I can hear Jesus saying: "Peace?! Peace, my EYE. In the World you shall have tribulation. But be of good cheer, Dennis, *I* have OVERCOME the world.")

Yeah, Dennis, I STILL think you're gonna get the mansion of your choice, in Heaven(not that you want one, necessarily), and a generator with wheels(not that you'll need it.)

Man, I am so bummed out, because I had something just about ready to Post, when the computer froze up. Probably due to Bill Collector trying to get my e-mail add, so he can harrass me. So I have to try to remember what was written.

Anyway, Dennis, I have a Word for you:"Happy are those who are persecuted because they are good, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.

When you are Reviled and Persecuted and Lied About because you are my followers - wonderful! Be happy about it! Be very glad. For a tremendous reward awaits you up in Heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted too." Matthew 5: 10,11,12

But there are an awful lot of people who do Not consider you to be an "embarrassment" as bill collector puts it. I, for one, happen to think you are a Hero, pure and simple. In fact you are God's definition of a True Man and He absolutely ACHES to have a Household of Men, just like you. Men who CARE about women and children. This world so Desperately needs men like YOU. We have WAY TOO MANY 'Bill Collectors' in this world.

And like I said elsewhere. Concerning Y2K and preparation in general, God was testing you, and you Passed the test with flying colors. It's AWESOME when God can count on just ONE human being to do the RIGHT thing.

This stuff with the job is not a test from God. And after all, a job is just a job. Your family is what is important. In fact, they are your Real Job. The other is just an avocation - to pay the rent. I will be SO glad when GOD'S Kingdom comes. And the citizens are finally free.

Well, this ain't like the first version was, but it'll have to do. And I know you really wish that *I* would just shut up and go away, and that particularly the hateful people would go away. What was it the Rolling Stones sang -"Hey,(hey), you(you) -get offa my cloud -" You're probably thinking that about US. I don't blame you.

Take care, Dennis, and remember - you Have PASSED God's test. That's the only one that counts.

-- DB (tomG@h.com), January 08, 2000.

Deb --

Wow, Deb, looks like Bill hit a nerve with YOU . . . someone who spews bile and posts hateful messages isn't automatically a Debunker. In my experience, they're just as likely to be a TimeBomber. Neither forum has any sort of corner on the market of hatred, and it's dishonest to claim that one of them does.

If you have any proof that someone 'behind the scenes' had anything to do with any illegal activity, then you go right ahead and clue the authorities on on it. From what I've seen here and elsewhere of Mr. Olson, he dug his own hole with this threats online and raving interviews in the press. Sure, taking in a mother and child is laudable. But threatening to come to the house of those of those who disagree with him for the purpose of shooting them is not. Nor is threatening to shoot Family and Child Services workers who happen to show up at his house. Whether YOU think anyone else had anything to do with it is unimportant. The fact of the matter is that Olson's loud, foul and threatening mouth attracted more attention to his situation than he needed, and now he's reaping the consequences of his actions. I'm sorry for him, but I have no sympathy for him. In any event, I'm more worried about the mother and child than I am about the Olsons. I'm pretty sure they've GOT food, and can get along just fine for a while.

The arrogant and hateful attitude Olson displayed to people who objected to his cavalier attitude about the law, the authorities and adoption has been turned back upon him. If the man had been more polite, more patient and more tolerant of others, and less vocal in his desire to SHOOT others, then maybe he wouldn't be in the fix he's in now. If he'd kept a low profile during the last year, and taken the mother and child in quietly, no one would have known. But since he chose to shriek, crow and rave about things so loudly, obviously the sensitive ears of others (like, perhaps, his employer) picked up on him and his bizarre behavior. He did it to himself, as far as I can see.

I have no idea what makes some of you think that "pollies must have done it! Yeah! And there's gotta be something illegal about it, if pollies did it! Yeah! So let's get the authorities to get those blasted pollies! Yeah! Oh, darn . . . we SHOT all the authorities."

For all you who are wishing ill on pollies and debunkers, let's see you wish something GOOD for a change. Let's see you take some concern into your hearts for the child and its mother, rather than raving with hate and disdain for pollies, and let's see you advocate some positive action, rather than wishing ill to those who you seem to hate already. You're accomplishing precisely ZILCH with your whining and carping.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is 'winning,' the way the situation is going right now. Olson's losing, the mother and child are losing, and all you seem to be able to do is bitch and moan. Get the mother and child into Family and Child Services custody and GET THEM A HOME, but do it LEGALLY. If Olson lost his job, I'm very sorry about that, but he needs to take responsibility for tht HIMSELF.

And you, Deb, may your life be a living hell until you learn to withhold false witness on others. And may God fully forgive you when you have repented and apologized to those whome you have wrongfully accused. May you have the wisdom to see your errors, soon, and to repent.

-Bob

-- Robert J. Dobbs (bobdobbs@slack.com), January 09, 2000.

Bob,

"And you, Deb, may your life be a living hell until you learn to withhold false witness on others. And may God fully forgive you when you have repented and apologized to those whome you have wrongfully accused. May you have the wisdom to see your errors, soon, and to repent."

They ALREADY did ADMIT that they contributed behind the scenes - WHY are you IGNORING this? Did you actually go to the URL I posted and read the thread, especially the part I bolded? It indeed, to me, looks like someone (or several) at Debunkies had a helping hand in trying to make Dennis' life more miserable... I don't call that making "false witness" - that would be if I had no links and was causing slander - and by the Debunkies' very own admission, they've had a hand in this matter... So, please do clarify how I've committed "false witness", otherwise you're not making any sense.

"For all you who are wishing ill on pollies and debunkers, let's see you wish something GOOD for a change. Let's see you take some concern into your hearts for the child and its mother, rather than raving with hate and disdain for pollies, and let's see you advocate some positive action, rather than wishing ill to those who you seem to hate already. You're accomplishing precisely ZILCH with your whining and carping."

How do you know that I haven't already contributed and done good for others? Personally, I've already made donations from my preps to a local foodbank. I've also sent more than a little money to different charities nation-wide and I also donate time and clothing too. So I DO speak from the heart. What exactly have YOU done to help the situation, here or elsewhere? What do YOU do in your daily life to help make life more bearable for others? Do you donate money and food daily to homeless street people? Do you donate to those who take meals and clothing to them? How do you treat the people around you, not only family and friends, but strangers needing "a little grace" too? Yes Bob, I DO contribute, every day of my life.

"Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is 'winning,' the way the situation is going right now. Olson's losing, the mother and child are losing, and all you seem to be able to do is bitch and moan."

Bob, I agree that nobody is winning, I DO feel badly for the mother and child. However, about "bitching and moaning" you aren't seeing the point, though I don't know if it's intentional or not. I try to not generalize about Debunkies or trolls, but their personal attacks are unexcusable. If you don't agree with someone's actions, fine. Just don't attack them personally for it - and that's what's being done. Please try to explain this (see below) then, considering that no-one except the mother and Dennis knows EXACTLY what's occured...

"How the F**K do you know you stupid B***H? Have you personally visited the Olsons in Wisconsin to check this out? Or as usual are you just running your big mouth off with no facts in hand. Stick to youre cut and pastes and shut the hell up about that which you know nothing about."

The only thing I've ever gotten from Debunkies (aka Trolls) has been personal attacks such as from Bill Collector and the fact that they NEVER prove their side of the discussion. How does Bill Collector know the full story? How do you know the full story? Deal is, none of us do, only Dennis and the family does... Debunkies offers maliciousness where I and others on this board offer hope.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), January 09, 2000.

Okay, Deb. I'll tell you how you're committing false witness. A posting on a message board saying some garbage about how someeone's already done something offline sure is weak justification for you to have decided precisely WHO did precisely WHAT. And you appear to have already decided WHO did WHAT, since you're throwing out words like malfeasance. Tell us, what IS malfeasance? And how could anyone involved in all this be accused of it?

I'm not ignoring anything, Deb. I'm especially not ignoring the fact that you're taking some very thin, very weak and very circumstantial evidence and turning it into a legal accusation. Maybe it looks to you like someone's trying to give Dennis a hard time. But maybe they aren't. I think that Dennis lost his job, as bad a thing as that is, because of his own foul mouth and his own reach for fame. I think the Debunkers are more worried about a hateful person with thousands of rounds of ammo, gasoline in the basement, an avowed bloodlust for public officials and a provable anger management problem getting his hands on an infant and its mother without going through proper, legal channels. I see two separate things here. You see one, and accuse people you find handy. Debunkers appear to have suggested that they had A hand in A matter. On the other hand, you appear to think they're behind the scenes, orchestrating the whole thing. What a laugh. False witness. QED.

What have I done to help others? Much the same things you have, but that's not really the point here. I'm not the one screaming for people to be investigated or accused of anything. I'm also not one of those on here who have screamed for the blood of pollies and "jackbootid gubmint thugs." You don't have some kind of karmic debt that says you can crap on others all you want as long as you do some good deeds to cancel the bad things out. Try being good ALL the time, even on this board, Deb, not just when it suits you. That would include not falsely accusing others on paper-thin circumstantial evidence. The question is not how does Bob treat the people around him, the question is how does Deb treat the people around her? With "a little grace?" Or with false witness? Think about it, Deb.

You're a funny poster, Deb. You say you avoid generalizations, yet you use them liberally. Example -- "I try to not generalize about Debunkies or trolls, but GENERALIZATION ABOUT DEBUNKIES/TROLLS." Further, the bitching and moaning IS the point. So many of the posters here, and you're included, are spending more time crapping on each other rather than calling for swift, decisive LEGAL action to get these two kids under a permanent roof. For some reason, lately Olson's lost job has come to mean more to some posters on here than the fact that two children are essentially homeless. Point all the fingers you want AFTER the kids are taken care, of, Deb. But keep your eye on the ball NOW.

I don't care about the obscene poster, Deb, and since I'm not that poster, I don't owe you an explanation. YOU obviously missed MY point that my comments were directed at EVERYONE who is acting negatively about this baby to-do. And that includes the foulmouthed poster you included. I'm talking to HIM/HER, too.

And one more thing, Deb, exactly HOW are you providing hope here when you accuse others falsely? There is plenty of malice on this board, and it's not confined solely to debunkers. Your pals here offer plenty of malice. There's no corner on malice with anyone.

Bob

-- Robert Dobbs (bob.dobbs@slack.com), January 09, 2000.

Bob,

You're making assumptions here, indeed some "gross" ones. I am not accusing all of the Debunkers of orchestrating the entire affair, however, I AM bringing to light that they have had a hand in at least a PART of the issue, and (my opinion) that if THEY had acted with any INTENTIONAL MALICE, proven in court, against Dennis then I hoped that my posting the Debunkie threads could be used by Dennis for his defence.

As to why I believe this way, I only have to look at the Debunkies past actions to have a rational reason for why I believe this way. Many that post there are venomous, spiteful and show extremely anti- social behavior. Some their have advocated spamming attacks, trying to shut down this board and also hideous verbal attacks against any who try to have a pertinent discussion there. Their very indifference to social norms could perhaps indicate their willingness to go to extremes to try to "harm" someone they do not like. I do not know for certain that they have tried to cause Dennis misery, but my suspicion is that they might have tried to do so. As for specific names, I have only mentioned that CPR has hinted that he knew that someone called the authorities, and from the way it sounded, he knew details fairly intimately...

As for the mother and child, if they need to be moved, then so be it. I hope and pray for their physical and mental well-being. However, with what I've heard of foster parentage, it could still be a very ugly scenario for them. My opinion is that they family should go in for extensive family and parental counseling. As for the scenario, and the unique circumstances involved, I believe that tolerance and mercy is the key - as long as there is no history of prior physical or mental abuse... My goal has never been one of seeing them suffer, I've currently only been concentrating on defending Dennis' good intentions, during an extremely stressful and trying time, against those who would vilify him.

As for your opinion of Dennis, I believe the very same things could be said of many posters over at Debunkies, whom I've assailed against. You know my opinions, and if you aren't familiar with their posts then you should do your own investigation of their archives... What you'll find there exponentially overwhelms any intentional malice that might be found upon this board.

With my personal malice, such as the curse I called down, it is intended for those who would cause intentional suffering, intentional torment, such as some of those who post at Debunkies and some of the trolls. I have every justification for wishing the same actions upon them that they enjoy inflicting upon others. Perhaps you don't like my methods, but my patience has grown very thin with their juvenile attacks, and someone must call them to order, or at least show a reflection of their inherent ugliness to them. May God be forgiving to them, and to you and I also.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), January 09, 2000.

someone must call them to order, or at least show a reflection of their inherent ugliness to them.

You certainly did that. Feel better?

-- (ugly@very.ugly), January 09, 2000.

[For the regular "troll" who keeps posting Deb's work address... don't! -- Sysop]

Answered by Get (back@to.work) from 209.179.39.97 on January 10, 2000.
DNS now: 209.179.39.97 maps to ... pool0352.cvx14-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net

-- Get (back@to.work), January 10, 2000.

Listen closely, Deb. Point all the fingers you want AFTER the kids are taken care of. But keep your eye on the ball NOW.

Oh, yes, some questions. What's malfeasance? If you're going to accuse someone of it, then perhaps you could tell us what it is. How are you providing "hope" on this board when you extend false witness? If you try to avoid using generalizations, then why do you seem to use them so much?

Deb, the only assumptions being made here are yours. I've said before that there are two -- count 'em -- two issues here, and you seem to be conveniently lumping them together. Even if someone from Debunky DID call Family and Child services, that's not a crime. In fact, if there is evidence of a hazardous environment, evidence of child mistreatment or evidence that adoption laws are being bypassed, then it is a crime NOT to call Family and Child Services in many states. Malice, intentional or otherwise, doesn't enter into the discussion, no matter how much you might want it to.

You can rave all you want about misbehaving and spamming Debunkers. I could do the same about misbehaving, spamming violent and threatening TimeBombers. In the end, neither argument gets anyone anywhere, and forgets that the mother and child are the prime concern here. However, the apparent indifference toward legal process exhibited by some members of the TB2000 forum might perhaps indicate a willingness by some here to flout some laws they do not like. We know for a fact that Mr. Olson threatened to shoot any law officers or Family and Child Services officials who came to his residence. You can defend him if you like, but I see nothing worth defending in that attitude. In fact, there's much to condemn in it.

Further, your "suspicion" that Debunkers may have tried to cause Mr. Olson's misery overlooks the rather strong likelihood that he might have caused his own misery. Yes, tortious interference in another's employment is considered a crime. But if you honestly think that someone from Debunky called up Olson's boss and talked him into firing the guy, then you're more credulous and naive than I thought at first. If YOU were making employment decisions for others, would YOU fire someone on the anonymous say-so of a crank caller? I didn't think so.

Also, Deb, you need to go back and read your own posts more closely. Until this particular post, you did NOT mention that CPR had "hinted that he knew that someone called the authorities." You rather clearly suggested that some person or persons from Debunky had had a hand in causing Mr. Olson's troubles.

I agree with you that the mother and child, as well as the grandmother involved in this whole sad tale, need to receive family counseling. It might not hurt Mr. Olson to do likewise, given his reaction to those people on this forum who have objected to his cavalier attitude and vehement threats of violence. You can defend Olson's good intentions all you want. The road to Hell is paved with them. And regardless of what you may think, no one on this board, doomer or polly, wants to see anyone involved in this suffer. However, many people here do NOT believe that Dennis Olson is the best person to have custody of the mother and child, no matter how highly you may think of him personally.

Olson needs no one to vilify him. He did an excellent job of vilifying himself on this very board last week. And you can say what you want of Debunkers and pollies, but I think we both know who's been posting messages over the last year or so calling for the death and starvation of others, don't we? Which board harbors people who call for the shooting of UN troops (which I haven't seen yet, by the way)? Which board has regulars who expressed a desire to see their opponents dead? Which board said "they'll all be dead in three weeks?"

I think THAT exponentially overwhelms any intentional malice found on Debunky. And it appears to do a middling good job of overwhelming any intentional goodwill found on THIS board, too.

You can take your curse and apply it to your buddies on here who wanted to cause harm, pain and suffering to others. Apply your ill will to those who WANTED to see others starve. Call for bad things to happen to your fellow posters who were talking about shooting others. I have every justification for wishing the same actions upon them that they enjoy inflicting upon others, but I'm NOT. I don't wish them ANY harm. You have a VERY skewed view of what constitutes ill will and good intentions, Deb. If you want to call someone to order, and show them how ugly they are, then start right here in your own back yard. Get your own house in order before telling someone else how to run theirs.

Bob

-- Robert Dobbs (bob.dobbs@slack.com), January 11, 2000.