No, it was not the phones that caused the crash - read carefully - they don't know why 2 trains were on the same track.

Those that didn't have the right phone numbers were NOT on the train, but outside, trying to warn.

And it is NOT ALWAYS human error. Sometimes it is signal error and switching error.

There was concern before Y2K of faulty switching due to y2k failure. We'll have to wait and see what they say.

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000105/wl/crash_norway_17.html Wednesday January 5 3:08 PM ET

TV: Phone Snag Thwarted Norway Crash Warning

By Terje Solsvik

ASTA, Norway (Reuters) - Norwegian rail controllers tried to telephone two train drivers to tell them to halt before a head-on collision that killed 20 to 30 people but had a wrong list of numbers, a television report said Wednesday.

Sixteen bodies have been recovered or spotted so far in the burnt out wreckage and police have revised down the likely death toll from Tuesday's accident from an earlier estimate of 33.

``It's likely to be closer to 20 than 30,'' police spokesman Per Erik Skjefstad told Reuters.

Officials said it was unclear why the two trains were on the same track, each travelling toward each other at about 80 kph (50 mph). They collided on a curve about 160 km (100 miles) north of Oslo. Sixty-eight people survived, some with severe injuries.

Independent TV2 said rail controllers in the nearby town of Hamar realised the trains were on collision course and tried to call the drivers on mobile phones. But, quoting anonymous sources, it said the list of phone numbers was wrong.

``We are investigating these rumors. I can neither confirm nor deny them,'' Steinar Killi, director of the state railway network, told a news conference of TV2's report.

He said that there were no signs of technical faults on the signaling system, meaning that one of the drivers drove past red signals. Both drivers were believed to have died.

New Safety Planned

Mobile telephones are the only way to communicate with drivers along the line apart from signals. A more advanced warning system is due to be installed in the summer, allowing controllers to activate the brakes.

The only other comparable train disaster in Norway was in 1975, when 27 people died farther north on the same line.

Police said that 12 bodies had been recovered from the wreck of the two trains by nightfall Wednesday and another four corpses had been spotted in the wreckage.

Police chief Magnar Lynum told a news conference that 20 people were reported missing and were feared killed in the wreckage. He said the missing probably included many of the dead, none of whom had yet been identified.

``The number of dead could easily be more than 20. Some of those killed may not have been reported missing,'' he said. Police suspected that the initial figure of 100 people aboard both trains might prove too high.

Relatives and friends attended memorial services and scattered flowers in the snow near the wreckage.

One of the trains was an express travelling from Trondheim, on Norway's west coast, south to Oslo. The other was a local train travelling north from the town of Hamar, one of the host towns for the 1994 Lillehammer Winter Olympics, to Rena.

At the crash site, workers used chainsaws to cut down pine trees to make it easier to get into the tangle of carriages, some on their sides, in sub-zero temperatures.

They carried out corpses wrapped in green bags and drove them in hearses to Oslo for identification. Searching the wreckage is likely to last several days.

Flags flew at half mast at railway stations around Norway.

At least one 12-year-old girl on a shopping trip was feared killed on the northbound train but local schools reported that several others feared missing were safe.

The accident is the worst in Europe since 31 people died near London's Paddington station in October.

Among the worst recent rail disasters in Europe, 101 people died in 1998 when a high-speed ICE express train crashed near the German town of Eschede.

-- Sonny (wwithin@nc.net), January 05, 2000

Answers

Sonny...wow, thanks for the clarification and the update.

If you are making reference to comments I made earlier I was only reporting what a CNBC reporter had mentioned in a news snippet. In all honesty, they seemed rather clueless and didn't provide any real details.

This is an absolute tragedy and it has the makings of a very big story in many ways.

Mike

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-- Mike (not giving it anymore@aol.com), January 05, 2000.

Here is a something I posted to another board:

Two sections of the Norway Post are of interest from yesterday. The first describes the accident and the second discusses Y2K warnings. No connection for sure but worth a bookmark.

"TRAIN DISASTER (All papers)

The train collision near Esta in Hedmark county may be the worst train accident in Norways history. Yesterday evening seven people had been found dead, but the police are afraid that rescue parties will find a further 26 this morning. The two trains that crashed should not have been allowed onto the 13-kilometre long stretch at the same time. Red lights in Rena in the north and Rustad 13

kilometres farther south in Xsterdalen should have stopped one of the trains. As of yesterday nobody could explain what went wrong. The two trains were carrying a total of 100 passengers. One was coming from Trondheim and the other from Hamar."

and further down the page...

" - Two months ago the Norwegian National Rail Administration warned that lives could be lost at the turn of the millennium due to computer problems. This was revealed in an internal document from the Ministry of Transport and

Communications. The Rail Administration has found Y2K bugs in its systems in Hamar. (Dagbladet)"

Here is the link:

http://www.norwaypost.no/content.asp?cluster_id=8855&folder_id=4

-- PA Engineer (PA Engineer@longtimelurker.com), January 05, 2000.

REPOSTED FROM OLDER POST:

I've spent 37 years in the Rail service, operating over 300 miles of track.

This post (previous) does not line up with reality. Every engine has radio service. If radio (or cellphone) service fails, so does your right to leave your last point of contact, unless you are operating under automatic signal control. These do fail, mostly to their default position of STOP.

History of previous head-on collisions have always pointed to human/operator error. I don't expect this to be any differant, Y2K or not.

Watch the investigative results.

********************************************************************** *******************

Sonny, I had not read the article, yet it appears they have already stated the cause:

"He said that there were no signs of technical faults on the signaling system, meaning that one of the drivers drove past red signals. Both drivers were believed to have died."

Now understand, before you arrive at a RED signal, you pass a yellow signal which requires the engineer (driver) to reduce speed and prepare to stop at the RED signal. For him to ignore Both signals is beyond logic. Yet, you can bet this is where the blame will fall.

The term CONTROLLERS in this country means DISPATCHER. He is the operater who sets the power signals for the engineer to operate according to the existing rules. Could this be y2k defect? You will never know it. Its much safer to blame the dead.

-- Tommy Rogers (Been there@Just a Thought.com), January 05, 2000.