Proof That Y2K Still Matters ....

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

You're looking at it on this forum.

The pollies are spitting blood in their desire and frenzy to be "right" about Y2K, even though it is 01/04/2000 and even though professional pollies know it will take weeks to determine Y2K impacts.

Or does the fact the power stayed on mean that the IRS is remediated? And so it goes.

The rather hilariously blatant fact that is being underlined over and over again these past few days is that the doomers really meant it when they said they never wanted to be "right" but simply be prepared.

The pollies, unprepared, had and have to be right, desperately so (Flint is the preparation exception but is schiz and otherwise proves the rule).

The venom being expressed by the trolls and the near-trolls, including, most relevantly, the vicious attacks on Yourdon, North, Lord, Hyatt and Hamasaki, is telling, isn't it?

Yeah, I know, the poor pollies were "attacked" by the doomers for months, right? Horse hockey. Hoffmeister, Flint and Decker, among MANY others, have been lambasting doomers for months (cf the ongoing treatment of Milne, Yourdon, Hamasaki, Core et al). DerBunkies have been attacking this forum for a year or more.

The score was always at least "even", for those who get a kick out of the nonsense of scoring Y2K.

Until now.

Now, in the delusion that four days post-rollover proves Y2K to have been the equivalent of a hoax or near-hoax, these people are virtually foaming at the mouth.

Which only proves, as I said, that Y2K STILL matters and matters more to the pollies than it does to the prepared doomers.

Heck, I'm thrilled at the results so far, as are nearly all doomers, and having a truly wonderful time enjoying 2000 so far. My life is at peace. And I'm hoping, as I have from the beginning, that my expectation of an 8.5 proves totally wrong.

We'll know by May.

Meanwhile, through the incredible empty noise being spewed here, we'll keep trying to understand what IS happening with Y2K. As many of you have pointed out, it's extraordinarily weird that people who believe Y2K is over are still hanging out here.

They're addicted and, deep down, they know it ain't over.

And they hate us but they're not honest enough to say so (now, watch for the requisite posts saying, "no, we pity you.")

Pathetic.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 04, 2000

Answers

Big Dog, I agree with you :).

Just for for the sake of a short cut, let's invite every Polly to respond to this as a public evidence of their obsessive fixation with what they've publicly and repeatedly stated to be a delusional non-issue.

At the very least, it will enable the newbies to quickly identify the psychologically-afflicted here... :)

-- John Whitley (jwhitley@inforamp.net), January 04, 2000.


Once again you've hit the sweet spot.

-- snooze button (alarmclock_2000@yahoo.com), January 05, 2000.

I keep wondering why they come here. Why would anyone want to spend time with people they don't respect? Every time I read a polly post it means they too are struggling with these issues and they lash out because they don't know how to analyze. If they really truly thought we were so totally off base, they wouldn't come here. They'd just forget it and get a life. But no, they are here as much as I am and that's very telling. I have been checking in here many times a day lately because this is all so fascinating to me. Almost everytime I check in there is a new polly disrepectful post. I bet there haven't ever been very many so called doomers over at the debunking forum. We are too busy to bother with them. These people are so incredibly immature. It is really weird.

-- a mom (can't@get enough.com), January 05, 2000.

Re-post here...

Those of us who feel there are longer term global and economic repercussions to 2000... the year of "glitches..." will continue to observe.

A word of wisdom... "be prepared..." for anything.

Shift Happens.

Diane, still expecting the "unexpected" and haven't been disappointed... so far.

*Grin*

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 05, 2000.


The irony is, if we were right, then they wouldn't know if we were gloating or not, cause they don't have power packs, cell uplink, whatever, to know what the heck the few hardcore survivalists that find a remnant of the web are sayin'.

-- Hokie (Hokie_@hotmail.com), January 05, 2000.


What y'all are missing is the fact that without us Doomers and this board-the Pollies would have nothing to do with themselves.

Even at the other board- which I visit every couple of days- all they talk about is us 'Doomers' and how stupid they think we are. Nothing else. Like here before the Rollover-they had no facts, just whines and bitching and childish taunts.

So, like I've said...don't answer their posts. Let the Sysops delete and they'll give up. Care all.

-- Satanta (EventHoriz@n.com), January 05, 2000.


You doomers just don't get it. I'm not enjoying this forum because I'm schizoid, I'm enjoying it because it's both fun and funny to mock you guys.

You see, there was always a measure of pathetic humour to watching so many doomers prepare for y2k. Some people secretly yearn for society to go to the dogs so they can be the "prepared ones". Instant power, etc. What could be more attractive to those who feel powerless within society?

Now that the air is rushing rapidly out of the apocalyptic y2k scenarios, it's just plain-old mean-spirited fun to watch you guys scurry about, either shouting that big things will still go wrong, or that you never said they would.

You can say that my sense of humour is mean, or wrong, or whatever...but a lot of other people find it funny too!

JimH

-- JimH (jim.heson@home.com), January 05, 2000.


JimH,

I was always a "5."

May a 7.0 earthquake never darken your door. Or a level "4" tornado, etc.

To insure... or not to insure... that "is" the question.

*Grin*

Diane, living on shakey Silicon Valley ground

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 05, 2000.


I mostly lurk here, came here recently from Cory Hamasaki's elist. This thread reminds me of the fact that atheists only "claim to fame" is the God they profess to not believe in. If they were really 100% convinced He didn't exist, they would just get on with their lives and not waste precious life air arguing the point. Unless they didn't have a life....

-- Pramada (pram108@yahoo.com), January 05, 2000.

Diane, fellow Californian, you took the words right out of my keyboard.

Living in Earthquake country I have always had the desire to prepare but never had the push to do so. Y2k certainly gave me that push. My wife has a back up supply of insulin. I now have preps for perhaps a couple of months. I have great new camping gear that my 3 1/2 year old son already wants to break in. What did this cost me, really? It's only cheap insurance I should have had anyway. I can take care of my family if *something* unexpected occurs. We have fires, floods, earthquakes...prudent preparation is NOT anything to be ashamed of.

BTW, this isn't over. I wont rest easy regarding Y2k for some time. It is the Year 2000 problem, right? Oh, and I've always been about a 5-7 and I aint changed one bit. We're now in MY territory as a middle grounder. This is where MY scenarios may play out.

I can say, without hesitation, that I'm happy beyond measure that the power stayed up, the sewers work and the phones do too. What does it matter if GM can't get that widget they need for production that ONLY X company makes? THAT IS and always HAS BEEN where the biggest Y2k dangers reside. We aint played this out enough yet to be sure.

As a home business owner I can rest easy knowing that if we slip into a recession and my client base dries up because budgets get tight I can still feed my family. THAT has always been my desire and my motivation.

It's interesting that pollies seem to be fixated on the rollover much more than most doomers ever did. It's a strange irony.

Mike

====================================================

-- Mike Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), January 05, 2000.



Mike,

I *adore* hot showers.

That's why I bought a solar shower from realgoods.com... for camping... or "in case." Also have a great new dome tent for Christmas. Can't wait to test out my "emergency" solar cooker, too. Lot's of new "stuff" too.

;-D

Worlds of sustainability... await.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 05, 2000.


Wanted to say hello BigDog, Diane, and all.

Glad to see you.

maid

-- maid upname (noid@ihope.com), January 05, 2000.


Diane:

I've only been lurking around this forum for 6 weeks and only recently learned to post. But I've especially enjoyed your postings. Short, to the point and most of all, thoughtful. Besides, I usually agree with you.

-- Daisy Jane (deeekstrand@access1.com), January 05, 2000.


I am fairly new here. It seems that most of the sensible posters here are not responding to the pollies. I think that is the best strategy. Fortunately I learned as a child that ignoring idiots is the best way to get them to leave you alone. For them the fun is running their ignorant mouths and bringing you down to their level with a response. It gives them a 'sense' of security. And the insecurity of the pollies is very evident.

-- Kyle (fordtbonly@aol.com), January 05, 2000.

I have always said, and will always say,"he who laughs last, laughs the loudest." Let us see the status of the world this time next week, next month, next year, and then draw conclusions. A profound event like this is not over in a day, week, month or year. The last profound event like this was the birth and death of Jesus Christ and it isn't over yet.

-- Notforlong (Fsur439@aol.com), January 05, 2000.


I'll give my answer as to why I've posted to this board and some others even though I think I'd be classified as a 'polly' (not 100% sure .. catching up on the terminology).

I worked on our company's Y2K readiness team the past two years. The past year was so taken up with testing and re-testing that I did not have time to surf around the net. I was unaware that groups such as this existed and how fierce the debate was. The reason I'm new is not because I was afraid to post before but that I hadn't the time.

I lived and breathed Y2K as we prepared our systems. I realized there were people predicting catastrophic consequences, but was unaware of how many people they had influenced. Once I had some free time on my hands and started to look at what folks on the net had to say about Y2K, I was shocked and saddened because of the unnecessary fear I saw.

The reason I've started to post is because I've read quite a few postings by people who have been negatively impacted by all the hype. I don't fault anyone for preparing. Had I concluded there would be serious consequences, I'd have done the same thing. So I'm not anti anyone and don't intend to get drawn into insulting anyone.

Having read the archived posts/articles of the major 'Y2K prophets' (the ones with the books and speaking engagements) I think a terrible disservice was done by these 'prophets'. Many weren't just warning about the Y2K problem, they were encouraging people to be very afraid. Afraid of a problem whose impact nobody, at first, could predict with any accuracy.

Instead of giving a balanced opinion of an issue nobody was an expert in, these 'prophets' concentrated on the worst immaginable things that could happen. This was a terrible thing to peddle to people. I actually read one of them state that the Y2K problem was so huge and complex it couldn't be remedied. Don't know where he got his data. But, I saw this belief distributed among the newsgroups.

I see there are still people who are predicting that some uncovered Y2K problem is probably going to happen down the road and to stay prepared. I want to let people know what I saw during almost a year of testing all types of systems. I want to present what I know as facts and let people decide from there who they will still believe. So, the reason I am here post-Y2K is because I have not seen too many who were actively involved solving the problem speak up and explain what they did and saw. For me, Y2K is pretty much over.

Well that's my reason

Chris J.

-- Chris Josephson (chrisj62954@aol.com), January 05, 2000.


BD, don't know if you saw my soliloquy over at http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002DeH but the level of vipratude can only be explained by either having the emotional maturity of a junior high schooler or somebody that is whistling past the grave yard.

I would like to point out that no company in it's right mind is going to issue a press release saying, "HEY, we've got a Y2K problem here!", particularily if it is a traded company. Example, Lozier. They have a machine that cost millions of dollars, when they installed a Y2K patch to its automation, it went down, rebooted with old software, still stayed down, stayed offline for over two months last summer. Now they are huge, note all of the philanthropy by them in Omaha. They were able to absorb this blow. You would only have found out about that publically if you were attending a Y2K seminar at an Omaha church last year.

If the same thing happened to a smaller company that had a huge interest payment overhead, and that machine was most of their production, they would have folded. That would have been TEOTWAWKI for the small company's investors, BITR for their customers as they found alternate suppliers, and pure gravy for their competion.

Anyway BD, I'ld be interested in your take on my view of the polly's screaching.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), January 05, 2000.


Excellent point here Bigdog:

The pollies, unprepared, had and have to be right, desperately so (Flint is the preparation exception but is schiz and otherwise proves the rule). "

TPTB will now attempt to DISTRIBUTE the blame for future y2k problems amoungst a myriad of reasons. Remember, if it can be blamed on y2k congress has passed a law limiting damage claims.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), January 05, 2000.


Whatever comes down in the next few months, there won't be any failures that have never happened before. Any particular failure can always be laid to another cause. The sun is not going to shine on these internal difficulties in industry and government. Plausible deniability will always be available.

In any given situation, we can never be certain that Y2K was not involved, just as we can never be certain that it was. My opinion -- or anyone else's -- makes no difference to the outcome. Life will continue much as before, or it won't. Let's see how things work out this year.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), January 05, 2000.


You've probably never heard of me, since I've never posted here before. :) But going by what I've read thus far, I could probably be classified as one of your "pollies." My "Y2K preparations" consisted of 1)buying half a dozen nice candles (they were on sale at Meijers the week before Christmas, and I like to write stories by candle light) and 2)getting some special Year 2000 Edition bubble bath. (I've made good use of both, too. The candlelight seems to inspire me, and the bubble bath smells very nice.) But excluding that... I just went on as usual and will continue to do so.

I can assure you that I don't hate anyone here. There's simply no logical reason for it. If you really think disaster is around the corner, it only makes sense to be ready for it and warn your friends; more power to you for doing so. And yes, I DO think it's possible that systems could fail in some meaningful way over time... but it's also possible that I could get hit by a falling meteor. In the meantime, though, I don't feel any overwhelming need to worry about either occurence.

There is also, of course, the question of why I'm here since I'm not really part of the group that this forum was intended for. It isn't so much a matter of "knowing deep down that it ain't over" (or any malicious intent) for me as a matter of my fascination with human psychology, and observing how the year 2000 affected/affects different people.

In other words, I'm just nosy and like to see how people think. :)

Later, *Rochelle. :)

-- Rochelle (rainbowdrop@usa.net), January 05, 2000.


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