http://www.pirc.co.uk/shellmar.htm

"5.6 Oil production ceased in the Ogoni area in mid 1993 after SPDC withdrew its staff in the face of increasing intimidation and attacks from communities....[23], and an ultimatum from MOSOP. Shell is not currently producing in Ogoni, although the company says it recognises the underlying issue of inequitable income allocation and has openly expressed sympathy for the communities in the region. The Government for its part has acted to plan an increase to 13% in net revenues allocated to communities."

Ooops, sorry about that, it was back in 1993. Amazed that there were oil production productions anywhere in the world pre-rollover.

Took me a whole minute on an Alta Vista search to find that.

And Mike, I've read the archives and I've yet to find a single posting of a problem OCCURING AT THE TIME in the period well before rollover...it's ALL people simply posting/referencing dire predictions...

-- John H Krempasky (johnk@dmv.com), January 04, 2000

Answers

I posted this on the other thread but since you've decided to carry this over to here.

Sure John, I'll give you two quick examples from last year.

Number 1. LA County Y2k Test

While doing a Y2k test in Los Angeles, where I reside, a failure kept a gate from closing which resulted in the spill of over 3 million gallons of raw sewage into the Sepulveda basin. This caused so much fear in the City government that the Mayor decided to cancel further testing of the facilities. You suggest that Y2k is a non-event yet this failure was widely reported. Do you think that we've been merely lucky that further spills have NOT occured. Oh, but wait... news from today in Orange County. A spill has occured there causing the release of raw sewage which has resulted in another beach closing. This is the second time in only mere months that this has occured. Last year, during the height of the tourist season, a spill caused the closure of Huntington Beach for MONTHS. The problem and the solution were never made public to the best of my knowledge.

Number 2. Washington State.

A computer and sensor neglected to inform workers that a gasoline leak was dumping gallons of the flamable liquid into a small stream. Three boys were killed when the stream literally exploded around them. One boy while being comforted by his father, burned naked and still hot from the burns on his body, said, "I don't want mom to be mad." He died in his father's arms. I believe he and his friend were both 9. His house was only a short walk from the stream.

These incidents are both the result of faulty computer systems which did not report data correctly. One was a certain Y2k failure, the other may still be under investigation. I've never seen additional reports but an embedded failure was suspected.

If you think that Y2k has NOT cause any problems then you are totally deluded. Y2k test failures resulted in a number or problems and in all honesty it is my belief that we are currently in the kind of situation that the companies said they would be in. We're in contingency land. That is, we are in a "workaround world." We've gone "manual" which is EXACTLY what was the plan if things became a problem.

As for the archives, I suggest you dig a little deeper before you try to condecend to those who have been following these issues here for a great while longer than you have.

Or, do you think that that spill in L.A. was just a complete and utter anomoly? Either way, I really don't care what you think.

Why are you here John?

Mike

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-- Mike Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), January 04, 2000.

Seems John is an expert and psychic as well. He really didn't like the posting about an electrical fire in India, caused by a power surge that has experts puzzled. The fire killed 10 people and may (or may not) be the first instance of a y2k related incident resulting in deaths. see what you think. Here's the link to the stories in the Times of India:

http://www.timesofindia.com/today/03mdel1.htm

http://www.timesofindia.com/today/03mdel4.htm

Here's Link to original India Fire Thread here on y2kTimebomb

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002CyE

Here another story John is sure to foam at the mouth over about an exexplained fire at an Australian Power Plant

Link to Fire Thread here on y2kTimebomb http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002CyE

-- Carl (Somewherepress@aol.com), January 04, 2000.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

-- Carl Jenkins (Somewherepress@aol.com), January 04, 2000.

More fine examples of "assume its y2k" and to hell with the facts. The latest information on the Wash. state gas leak I say indicated that the cause was most likely due to a defect in the pipe, coupled with a possible valve valve/control problem unrelated to the computer (the computer is said to have contributed to how long it took to identify and stop the gas leak due to a "slowdown"). The flaw appears to have been identified during tested, but nothing was done since the indications weren't judged to be significant. More will be known later, since this is being investigated for possible criminal actions by company officials (several who have plead the fifth). The explosion itself was triggered by the boys striking a match (or lighter?). Investigators indicated that the computer "slowdown" claim related to y2k testing may be in doubt. Regardless, the computer never CAUSED the problem.

The India story isn't worth comment in regards to Y2K, since the their have been no credible sources attributing the problems to Y2K, only TB2000 doomer assumptions.

Y2K is an event, but I much prefer the reality of the event to the wild speculations by some doomers.

Number of injuries due to y2K bugs: 0 Number of Injuries/mishaps due to Y2K Preps: At least 2

Keep going John, nice to see someone care what the truth is.

Regards,

-- FactFinder (FactFinder@bzn.com), January 04, 2000.

Factfinder, you are equally twisted.

"Regardless, the computer never CAUSED the problem. "

Really? I guess the fact that the boys were playing with matches was the only cause of their demise? Right?

I guess the fact that the computer, which was supposed to notify the workers of the leak and did not function correcty, is totally innocent. Right?

I guess the gasoline in the stream was a no-fault situation for the company?

Why, oh, why, would there be a resulting investigation into criminal action? Obviously something went terribly wrong.

We have had two chemical weapons leaks since the rollover. One of those leaks resulted in a warning that was first said to be an error and then said to be real. What are the odds?

By the way, I never said the Washington explosion was even related to Y2k, just a major systems problem that resulted in death.

You did that.

Mike

==============================================================

-- Mike Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), January 04, 2000.

Didn't someone out you as a "Rendonite" the other day?

I can't recall seeing you challenge the assertion.

Or am I confusing you with someone else?

If you *are* here on a mission, I'd have to wonder *why* "someone" would pay for such ascerbic damage control efforts *after* the putatively flawless One True Date.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), January 04, 2000.

I really have to laugh at this. *Exactly* as I predicted, starving doomies are dredging up every problem they can find, computer related or not, trying to recover lost glories.

John is correct in principle. Anyone can pick up any daily newspaper from N years ago and list all the terrible things that happened that one day. What's new? This forum is becoming the withdrawal ward for recovering doomaholics.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), January 04, 2000.

Factfinder...

Do you actually believe everything that you are reading in the media?

I had never thought twice about what I read on the frontpages. I had always assumed it to be fact. However, I have had serious doubts in the last few days, since the rollover to be exact. Things just didn't seem right. I think that's why we are all here, to come to a better understanding as to what is happening, everyone pitching in reports in their areas, a real team effort I think. I believe it's our right to do so, without being persecuted.

There is a difference between being paranoid and being vigilant. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. So sorry that you cannot see the forest through the trees.

-- cin (cinlooo@aol.com), January 04, 2000.

Hey John, not for nothin, but what the fuck do YOU know about oil?

Why not go mentally masturbate somewhere else. I'm certain there are jollies to be had pretending to be a meditation guru or something on Yahoo chatboards?

-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), January 04, 2000.

Mike, Thanks for the post. Just a few notes on that LA County sewer spill that happened in the middle of last June. It happened in Van Nys. It flooded Lake Balboa Park. The media reported 4 million gallons. I have a friend whose father works for the County sewer department. He said the spill was more like 10 million gallons. The computer, circa 1985, closed a gate and didn't notify its action. The father said those wroking on the soft/hardware were so inexperienced they'd need at least six months to make the corrections.

-- John Littmann (John.Littmann@mcquay.com), January 04, 2000.

The first death attributable to Y2K that I am aware of occurred in NYC around June, 1999. NYC's 911 was disrupted for over an hour while trying to cut-over to a back-up generator during a continguency planning test. During that time, a man (I believe from Queens) suffered a heart attack. People opn the scene could not get through to 911. He died.

-- Think It (Through@Pollies.Duh), January 04, 2000.

Flint -

You really are Patho.* Your unending bipolar rants have grown exceedingly tiresome. You remind me of a bad comic, that a few in the audience have humored with feigned laughter (apologetics applause in your case) and now won't shut up and get off stage. Please do everyone here, whom had the sense of courage and duty to prepare for their loved ones safety during uncertain times, a HUGE favor and GO AWAY!! Join your buddy Poole ( another talent challenged floater (sic)) and return to the business of saving ascarid from certain extinction, or WHATEVER!!

Disrespectfully

Michael

-- BoorPatrol (go@find.out), January 04, 2000.

John, thanks! I was going by memory and emotion :-)

Howzit in your neck of the woods?

Mike

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-- Mike Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), January 05, 2000.