Ten People Dead in New Delhi Fire apparently caused by electirc power surge: experts puzzled: Times of india

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Ten People Dead in New Delhi Fire apparently caused by electirc power surge: experts puzzled: Times of india Link to original story below:

http://www.timesofindia.com/today/03mdel1.htm

Link to followup story..Experts puzzled by fire:

http://www.timesofindia.com/today/03mdel4.htm

-- Carl Jenkins (Somewherepress@aol.com), January 03, 2000

Answers

Good catch, Carl!

Experts puzzled as electrical fires are rare in winter

NEW DELHI: The electrical fire in east Delhi's Khureji Khas area on Sunday, which left 10 dead, has puzzled experts since such incidents are extremely rare during winter.

The ``fewer-electrical-fires-in-winter-theory'' is based on the assumption that the cold weather and the moisture in the air guard against overheating of wires, thus, limiting the possibility of sparkings and fires.

``There must have been something seriously wrong that a fire broke out in such conditions,'' said a former engineer of DVB's distribution wing. Echoing similar sentiments, Khureji Khas residents claimed that it was the very high voltage of the power supply that caused the short circuit in the shop.

DVB officials suspect the fire might have been caused due to faulty or lose wiring in the shop. ``Also there must have been some inflammable material around the meter where the sparking took place,'' said an official in DVB's technical wing.

Sources in DVB, however, said the official stand of blaming a local fault for the fire may not be entirely true. ``We all know the gap between demand and supply continues even during winter. The voltage shoot-up that Khureji residents are referring to is a clear indication of the failure of DVB's safety mechanisms,'' he said.

``Even if the sparking takes place at the customer's level, there cannot be an excuse for the voltage to shoot-up suddenly,'' he said.

Asked about the resident's complaint that the voltage was very high when their power supply was restored around 1 am, after a three-hour-long power cut, DVB's area superintending engineer K K Mahajan said, ``I have checked with my field staff and nothing of this sort has been found.''.

DVB officials, unwilling to take the blame for the Khureji electrical fire, said if it was the high voltage that started the fire then similar sparkings might have also occurred in other houses.

Officials in the fire department are equally intrigued by the incident as they agreed fire caused by electrical sparkings are more common during summer. ``The number of electrical fires during summer has always been the yardstick for judging the state of the city's power transmission and distribution network,'' said a Delhi Fire Service official.

``This is so because of the tendency of wires to get heated up and catch fire faster during warm weather. A wire that can withstand the severe test during summer can be assumed to be safe for functioning during the rest of the year,'' he said.

Experts say electrical fires can be prevented only by gearing up the power distribution system for both voltage dips and surges.

Installation of an adequate number of shunt capacitors, that are essential for countering the reactive load (or the voltage dip) due to air-conditioners, is the only way of preventing the system from a collapse.

Last year, the maximum number of fires in a month were recorded during July. This month accounted for 618 electrical fires. In 1998, it was June that had accounted for the maximum number of 745 electrical fires. In 1997, the maximum number of 640 electrical fires were reported in July.

-- hhhmmm (foo@bar.com), January 03, 2000.


snip from above story: The fire, which wiped out two families, began around 1 a.m. after a sudden electric power surge reportedly sparked off a short circuit in one of the two shops in the building's front portion. ``There was no electricity in the area for over three hours before the incident and when it came, it caused destruction,'' said a resident, Zakir Hussain. The police have registered a case under Section 304A (causing death due to negligence) of the Indian Penal Code. Meanwhile, Delhi chief minister Sheila Dikshit has announced a compensation of Rs 50,000 to the next-of-kin of each victim.

snip

-- Carl Jenkins (Somewherepress@aol.com), January 03, 2000.


Experts puzzled as electrical fires are rare in winter NEW DELHI: The electrical fire in east Delhi's Khureji Khas area on Sunday, which left 10 dead, has puzzled experts since such incidents are extremely rare during winter.

The ``fewer-electrical-fires-in-winter-theory'' is based on the assumption that the cold weather and the moisture in the air guard against overheating of wires, thus, limiting the possibility of sparkings and fires.

``There must have been something seriously wrong that a fire broke out in such conditions,'' said a former engineer of DVB's distribution wing. Echoing similar sentiments, Khureji Khas residents claimed that it was the very high voltage of the power supply that caused the short circuit in the shop.

DVB officials suspect the fire might have been caused due to faulty or lose wiring in the shop. ``Also there must have been some inflammable material around the meter where the sparking took place,'' said an official in DVB's technical wing.

Sources in DVB, however, said the official stand of blaming a local fault for the fire may not be entirely true. ``We all know the gap between demand and supply continues even during winter. The voltage shoot-up that Khureji residents are referring to is a clear indication of the failure of DVB's safety mechanisms,'' he said.

``Even if the sparking takes place at the customer's level, there cannot be an excuse for the voltage to shoot-up suddenly,'' he said.

Asked about the resident's complaint that the voltage was very high when their power supply was restored around 1 am, after a three-hour-long power cut, DVB's area superintending engineer K K Mahajan said, ``I have checked with my field staff and nothing of this sort has been found.''.

DVB officials, unwilling to take the blame for the Khureji electrical fire, said if it was the high voltage that started the fire then similar sparkings might have also occurred in other houses.

Officials in the fire department are equally intrigued by the incident as they agreed fire caused by electrical sparkings are more common during summer. ``The number of electrical fires during summer has always been the yardstick for judging the state of the city's power transmission and distribution network,'' said a Delhi Fire Service official.

``This is so because of the tendency of wires to get heated up and catch fire faster during warm weather. A wire that can withstand the severe test during summer can be assumed to be safe for functioning during the rest of the year,'' he said.

Experts say electrical fires can be prevented only by gearing up the power distribution system for both voltage dips and surges. Installation of an adequate number of shunt capacitors, that are essential for countering the reactive load (or the voltage dip) due to air-conditioners, is the only way of preventing the system from a collapse.

Last year, the maximum number of fires in a month were recorded during July. This month accounted for 618 electrical fires. In 1998, it was June that had accounted for the maximum number of 745 electrical fires. In 1997, the maximum number of 640 electrica

-- Mr. Helpful (don't@wanna.get.spammed), January 03, 2000.


That sounds like a "vehicle hit a utility pole" problem.

-- The New Excuse (whathappenedto@the.squirrels?), January 03, 2000.

Here's another story from India that raises questions:

Power Crisis in India: India Times

http://www.timesofindia.com/today/04mpat11.htm

-- (Somewherepress@aol.com), January 03, 2000.



From one of the sidebar articles in the Times of India:

"Last year, the maximum number of fires in a month were recorded during July. This month accounted for 618 electrical fires. In 1998, it was June that had accounted for the maximum number of 745 electrical fires. In 1997, the maximum number of 640 electrical fires were reported in July."

JULY of 1997?!?!?!?!?!? That has to be a misprint. We all know that electrical fires are physically impossible without a Y2K failure. Presumably, The Times of India itself had Y2K-related Word Processor problems, and what was supposed to be "There have never been any electrical fires ever recorded in Delhi, yet there have been 2,003 electrical fires since Jan. 1 2000 in Delhi" came out as what I posted above instead.

I thank Carl for discovering that third world countries do not have electrical power 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, delivered at a steady, safe voltage. NEVER would have occured to me.

I anticipate further shocking discoveries by Carl which may include:

1) Smoking might cause some cancers

2) Car accidents are bad and kill people

-- John Krempasky (johnk@dmv.com), January 03, 2000.


If you can't think of anything else, shoot the messenger, right John...

-- Carl Jenkins (Somewherepress@aol.com), January 03, 2000.

Quoting out of context and insults are useful tool as well...

-- Carl Jenkins (somewherepress@aol.com), January 03, 2000.

By the way, John, I forgot to add that the you are begging the question...the key point is that 10 people were killed, apparently by a major power surge which experts are having trouble explaining...I guess you're psychic....Aloha and have a nice day:)

-- Carl Jenkins (somewherepress@aol.com), January 03, 2000.

Nice post, john. It's funny how the doom and gloomers believe that every single problem is due to Y2K. It's as if they really do want the end of the world. They simply don't understand that in this very large and complex world we have, there are a lot of problems you don't hear about that are NOT Y2K RELATED. It's simply not a concept that has entered their minds.

-- Realist (don't@want.spam), January 03, 2000.


Carl,

Identify the quote out of context, please.

I simply read further and comprehensively at the Times of India, and found over 2,000 electrical fires reported at non Y2K rollover dates in only THREE months during the past three years.

I suppose the crux of your flimsy argument is that "It happened in the winter which is unusual" therefore it MUST be Y2K..

Somehow, I suspect the Delhi electrical fire reports for December through March 1997-1999 are NOT zero.

You're Mr. God of Research, you've been reading the Times of India every day for the past three years fanatically monitoring electrical fires, I'm sure you can enlighten me, right, Carl?

Sadly, I'm not in school anymore and have no LEXIS/NEXIS access. I wonder how many thousands of deadly electrical fires I'd find in Third World Countries, during, say, 1990-1995?

And you'll note that on the Times of India site there isn't the slightest hint, intimation, ANYTHING relating to Y2K and this fire.

-- John Krempasky (johnk@dmv.com), January 03, 2000.


John Rendon is paying double-time for his trolls for period Jan 1 - Jan 31.

Now we get the expensive ones, he big guns.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), January 03, 2000.


Hi John, just to clarify, I never said it was a y2k glitch. I just posted the link to the story. You can do your own investigation if you like, there are many of us here who would be more than pleased to see you jump on a plane and head to India! By the way, you should wipe that foam off your mouth, it's dribbling down your chin...

-- (Somewherepress@aol.com), January 04, 2000.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ