I'm totally sorry for any uncalled remarks I've made in the past. In the past I've been threatened for my stance on y2k (and as a result, pissed me off). A few uncalled remarks have slipped into my writings. Y2KPro has sometimes posted a quote of mine. He quotes me as saying something along the lines of "Noah closed his doors and I will also close mine. Those Pollies will have to die." What this means is that those people who didn't prepare will certainly die provided y2k does get bad, which thankfully it didn't.

However, I will not apologize for preparing and warning others. The risks were real based on the evidence we had. We were lied to especially by the IEEE. These people testified before congress just 6 months ago with real concerns. These are supposed to be the people in "the know." Why did they lie to us? Also, we were lied to about a so called "Mr. CEO. by Jim Lord (who I took to be an honorable man and testified that Mr. CEO was honorable)." I had no choice but to take heed. Add to that, the countless GAO testimonies, the Naval War College, CIA, State Department and so on.

I actually saw lives being lost. Thus the concern, the reason for any verbal attacks on any pollies.

I'm happy that so far y2k is nothing but a .1 on the radar screen, but really what pisses me off is all the lies about the embedded chip technology. As a result, any real warnings will forever fall on deaf ears. What was gained by all the lies?

-- Larry (cobol.programmer@usa.net), January 01, 2000

Answers

Don't sweat it. I'm a software engineer, and I became very worked up about the possible embedded problems as well.

I'm very glad that BILLIONS of chips rolled over with no apparent problem so far. Very good!

I know for a fact that several applications have severe date related bugs. It will take time to know what the real extent is.

-- bryce (bryce@seanet.com), January 01, 2000.

YouKnowWho

Yes, I heard all kinds of numbers and Stats. The problem was knowing who to believe.

You have programmers out there like me that couldn't even agree on regular y2k issues. I'm talking regular Java, C++, VB and so on programmers. This I can't understand. I know for a fact that I had to fix y2k in my business applications and it was a daunting task. Yet, there are other programmers out there that say it's all hype. What gives when I know this isn't entirely true? So thus, the skeptical issue I had to take.

The bottom line is I'm sorry for any remarks. While it's still too early to make an assessment on the business world, it certainly looks like our lives aren't at risk. I think most would agree that the worse case scenario is probably a recession. Hardly much to be worried about.

Have a Happy (and happy it is) New Year.

-- Larry (cobol.programmer@usa.net), January 01, 2000.

Larry, if all of what you were led to believe were lies, then what was the point of it all? We've been told that billions of dollars were spent -- was that a lie, too? We've been told about terrorists and computer hackers and Y2K virues -- none of which has materialized. If it all was a lie, then the question to ask now is why? Why do it? Was it to cover something else?

Personally, my view, based on all that I have learned since 1997 is that the Y2K computer bug was a problem. Early on individuals viewed it as TEOTWAWKI because no one was paying any attention to it. As awareness grew, so did the efforts to remediate the problem.

Still, I ask myself: why the big show? Why create such a psychological drama? I have my suspections on that.....

-- mello1 (Mello1@ix.netcom.com), January 01, 2000.

Larry, I agree with you that Jim Lord has twisted the truth and betrayed his readers. His Navy Y2K Pentagon Papers had been thoroughly debunked, but those who posted here did not want to listen to the debunking.

Too bad Stephen Poole was chased off of this board by hostile posters. He tried to tell you that embeddeds was overhyped. And I posted here that embeddeds were overhyped. I cited Dale Way, the head of the IEEE's y2k committee who said that the power would go off at midnight. I was shouted down by BigDog who told me to go back to Debunkers. (Funny, Diane and others have never been hesitant to post links to Dale Way's writings when it supported the Doomer meme. But when he said that embeddeds was overhyped he was regarded about as highly as chopped liver.) And Factfinder posted several thoughtful essays indicating that embeddeds was overhyped but he too was shouted down. It is hard to get your point across when screaming over a lynch mob.

-- Robin S. Messing (rsm7@cornell.edu), January 01, 2000.

Im my opinion... a man that can swallow his pride and apologize is no doubt a "real man". Im impressed. =0)

-- cin (cinlooo@aol.com), January 01, 2000.

Larry, I would like to weigh in on your comment about programmers disagreeing about the basic components of Y2K computer problems. Remember when the AIDS virus was hot news? There was a journalist who wrote a book, "And the Band Played On". I read that book, and I came to the conclusion that even scientists have hidden agendas. You would think that science is more exact than politics, or social issues, but it tends to be just as complexed. I couldn't believe the infighting between the French scientists and the US NIH scientists over who discovered what first.

I guess my point is that programming is not exact either and views can be colored depending on one's agenda, allegance, etc.

So don't feel bad. You know more about the situation than I do, and I trust your opinion.

-- Mello1 (Mello1@ix.netcom.com), January 01, 2000.

Oops! Typo. I meant to write:

I cited Dale Way, the head of the IEEE's y2k committee who said that the power would NOT go off at midnight.

-- Robin S. Messing (rsm7@cornell.edu), January 01, 2000.

Larry,

Congratulations. You are handling the situation in a mature manner. Robin Messing makes a good point. The challenge of Y2K was searching for root information... and not trusting any source completely. If you dug behind places like Y2Knewswire it wasn't hard to find the spin. It's hard keeping an open mind... Truth be told, I had to check myself a few times. Be well.

-- Ken Decker (kcdecker@worldnet.att.net), January 01, 2000.

Larry:

The possibilities for embedded problems were there, and nobody on earth could know for certain how common they might be or where they might live (if anywhere). And searching for needles in haystacks costs a bundle even if there aren't any needles.

Over time, as investigation proceeded and problems were NOT being found, the discussion unfortunately polarized. The IEEE brief was an attempt to ward of legal liability just in case, not a statement of empirical findings. As Robin points out, those of us who tried to explain how embeddeds work in practice, and why the findings on the ground were so rare and minor, got shouted down. The last vestiges of genuine curiosity were overcome by the Politics of Preparation. Sad.

Yes, Jim Lord got played for a fool. But again, those who pointed out that secondhand anonymous fears from a single individual were overwhelmingly countered by hard data were no longer Politically Correct. Still, the evidence was there. It was (and still is) a matter of which evidence you find most credible. On this forum, no good news was considered credible. They said the government was lying, NERC was lying, all the big corporations were lying, ad nauseum. But this is a belief system, a crusade to *create* the truth, rather than to find it. And that's politics.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), January 01, 2000.

It is nice to see people who are in disagreement talk to each other for a change. It is refreshing to see intelligent people talk about this subject.

I am tired, I started work yesterday at 0700, and just got home, 2010, and all I have done is work on correcting problems. I don't know about other people, but I know I had some computers that were stuck on Dec 31 1999, but the clock reset...kinda like "Ground Hog Days, I had some that locked up, some that added the dates togeather etc.

The point is I know a lot of people, the majority of business people who shut off their machines for the weekend. They haven't encountered the problems yet.

I recieved form Motorola a copy of their chips that are considered "black products" that have a RTC, that will not CDC. I think they said that about 5% of their chips fell into that catagory.

It is my understanding that these are a sample of the imbedded chips that people talk about. They have no idea where they are, and they have no idea when their clock started. So they don't know the time that is on the clock. They just said that at CDC for that chip, whenever it comes up, it won't work.

I wish all of us in the computer field good luck, and I think we can be proud of all our efforts so far.

I am sure we will all get through this, I am just tired of working for 36 hours on problems that everyone says didn't happen.

Good night all.....jim

-- Jim Sharp (JIM4RLORD@aol.com), January 01, 2000.

I think we have difficulties in comprehending systems which are not "either one way OR the other". The most intelligent views before yesterday encompassed the uncertainty.

Now, after "the fact" (i.e. the initial rollover "event"), it's very easy for the armchair quarterbacks to critique according to those who predicted what came to pass, and those who missed the call.

Think about the continued uncertainty of the upcoming weeks and months, and realize that "either/or" thinking is not a very useful mental model for dealing with reality.

I believe it's most useful to embrace multiple plausible scenarios for the future, and try to prepare for all futures. Choosing the "right scenario" to prepare for is the typical short-sighted thinking which could bring our society down.

-- Chuck (cestin@aa.net), January 02, 2000.

Larry,

Cest la vie, no?

It's the Year 2000 now, and it's time to look forward, not back. There are LOTS of great things happening, and starting off this new period in history by carrying a silent reproach and being ashamed is not the way to do it. The point is, you were wrong. you can see that, and you had the intelligence to admit it.

Nodoby hates you, or thinks your a fool. We just want this Y2K business to get put behind us, and to carry on bravely into the new world.

Unfortunatley there are still some around here who are desperately trying to cling onto the dying meme... I won't name names.

My advice is to take this board and all other Y2K boards off your favorites lists... clear out your History and Temporary Internet Files, Empty the Recycle Bin, and don't look back.

I wish you the best in the future and a very Hapy New Year.

-- COBOL Compadre (just@another.programmer), January 02, 2000.