Yes embeds are "non-issue" BUT IT will have its real rollover test TONIGHT here's why : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I've given my explaination about what I think happened with embeds here:

Why nothing was ever going to happen with the embeds

But with respect to IT/database systems etc. The real test for them will be TONIGHT when the first day of overnight processing happens. You see if you done any programming you know that must of the bugs occur at what are known as boundaries. Now 1/1/2000 is a boundary. It is a boundary when you rollover and it remains a boundary until you use it. WE HAVE NOT FINISHED THE FIRST DAY SO THE BOUNDARY IS STILL LIVE AS IT HAS NOT BEEN CROSSED YET. IT will use it very heavily tonight when they process today's transactions. You yesterday night the processed transactions that were checking dates for work between 30.12.99 and 31.12.99. Today they will be processing dates for work done between 31.12.99 and 01.01.00 and will use new date seriously for the first time.

Boundaries cause errors just prior to the boundary, at the boundary and just after the boundary. That is the rule of programming.

So you can expect the potential for the most errors at the following times (amongst other times) for IT systems:

Begining of first month before boundary. Begining of first payroll (etc.) before boundary. Begining of first week before boundary. Beginign of first day before boundary. After boundary has crossed. Begining of first day,month,week,payroll etc. after boundary End of First day after boundary End of First week after boundary End of First payroll after boundary End of First month after boundary End of First quarter after boundary End of First year after boundary.

The vast majority of potential errors come where the vast majority of the date calculations can occur. These occur in the After periods when we reach the End of xxx time.

So hang on folks the ride in IT BEGINS TONIGHT.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 01, 2000


interesting point. More likely to hit monday though... -k-

-- KatInSeattle (, January 01, 2000.

Overnights at banks run every night 7 days a week 365 days a year WITHOUT FAIL. Any company that has any transaction that can happen today because they are open for business or have internal transactions (interest, daily billings etc.) posted within their own ledgers dwill have an overnight running tonight. My guess is that if they don't have them fixed today, the load from Monday will suffocate the company. But if they are fixed today, then Monday is 2 periods after the boundary and will not be a significant event execpt for those that check for "First business day after the boundary" (not too many I think) and for those who post their "First transaction after the boundary" (mainly smaller companies that don't have have 7/24 shops running daily overnights).

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 01, 2000.

Interested Spectator is right. I was taught 25 years ago that boundaries are where errors occur in programs. A thruth I have learned at some expense more than once. The examples given apply mainly to batch processing, that is grouping the transactions together for processing usually during "off" hours. Most batch oriented processing is a carry over from older legacy systems and is maintained either for backwards compatability or necessity due to the processes being carried out.

I too believe that the times mentioned will cause many problems in the next few months. However, most of them will be "hidden" from the view of the public, just as the processes are hidden today. They are the things that computers do when nobody is watching. The real work of the world is done in batches at night or on weekends.

In this same vein, although I thought the IRS was vulnerable this year, it seems to me that they may not have serious problems until 2001, when they must process data from the 2000 tax year. Oh, well...

-- Kevin Lemke (, January 01, 2000.


You are right that the stuff happens at night but the effect is felt in the morning by the world. Having been a CIO at a bank I have seen FIRST HAND how the overnight caused chaos in the back office in the morning and legions of workers have go to work to manually fix the tons of garbarge spewed at night. And the customers feel that very shortly afterwards (if not the same day) in errors, customer service, etc. The company then gets swamped with service calls and the original crew trying to clean up the mess are now swamped with "Fix it now, the customer is on the phone" type requests so the whole system goes into gridlock. And by the end of the first day, nothing is fixed and the system does it agian the next day.

It does get cleaned up eventually, but its like throwing molases and sand into the works. Some companies don't have the "power" (read money) to keep slogging through the muck and clear it. That is why statistically within on month of a MAJOR IT hickup 50% of the companies are broke and 95% within the year.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 01, 2000.


Perhaps we should remain on guard duty a bit longer. About 30 days ought to just about do it. Now the real fun begins.

-- Infidel (, January 01, 2000.

To the top with Interesting Spectator.

Most major corporations took their systems down (total shut down) on the 30th and will be bringing them back up tonight. So tonight will be the first night for batch processing and interfaces.

Not to mention that it's now time for year end processing. Hug your company bean counters on Monday, they'll need it.

-- miserp (, January 01, 2000.

Interested spectator:

Hope you're wrong; it's minus 20 F. in my part of town.

-- Nelson Isada (, January 01, 2000.

I wouldn't worry about power, they're primarly an embed system issue and I explain what I think happended there in my post linked at the top.

What I am talking about here are the business systems that are the life-blood of any organization - the systems that the are mainly used by workers sitting at desks.

-- Interested Spectator (is@the_ring.side), January 01, 2000.

Well, I am going to have to agree with Interested Spectator at least partially on this one, I believe the biggest benchmark y2k test for IT software won't pass until Jan 3rd. I like to include the day all the PCs get restarted and the fun starts for some of crisis here, but expect to see numerous minor (some more serious) bugs reported.


-- FactFinder (, January 01, 2000.

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