Change evident in grocery store

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When I bought groceries this aft. I was startled by a huge display of bottled water. This is in rural Pennsylvania. People have wells here. They can 30 qts of green beans and drive F150's;have a wood stove and a hunting rifle. They do not drink bottled water. They do, however, eat soup. The soup section was decimated. The boro manager, by the way, bought a generator for the town's water/sewer last year. Unless you are familiar with rural America you may not appreciate just how out of place that water would be in normal times. Even in Port Allegany, PA, there is awareness. Pam

-- Pamela (jpjgood@penn.com), December 24, 1999

Answers

just wait until next week at this time. we will all be a little nervous.

Get your gas and Veggies on Mon. or Tues. and sit back and watch what psychologist call human nature.

1. procrastination 2. denial

-- d----- (dciinc@aol.com), December 24, 1999.


3. Panic, 4. Anger, 5. Brutality, 6. Murder/looting/rioting

Are you ready to RUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMBLE ?!?!?!?!?!

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 24, 1999.


Our local grocery store, only one in town, jacked up the price on bottled water from 54 to 71 cents per gallon. Big display too. Never saw that before.



-- (Here@today.com), December 24, 1999.


Dennis, ask yourself the following questions: When I am under stress with unusual, or traumatic events, what do I do? Do I panic? Do I run amok? Do I loot and pillage?

Why do you assume people other than you DO? Your above statement is amazing and saddening in it's arrogance and scarce understanding. Are you projecting your own unacknowledge desire to run amok and loot?

Really, folks, ...long past time to keep your "bad self" projections inside your own head. Worry about your responses to adversity,..become a glowing good example to those about you.

--She in the sheet upon the hilltop,...

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), December 24, 1999.


7. Being Sprayed With Chemtrails. 8. Believing Clinton Wants a Worse Case Y2K Scenario. 9. Buying Gold.

-- Butt Nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), December 24, 1999.


Pamela, I't's good to hear from Middle America. It seems in this forum, either one is a gun collecting, homesteading survivalist or a city dwelling, gun hating liberal. I'm not knocking either, I've been both in the past. Just in last few year I've tried to find a balance. Sounds like you always had it.
I've too noticed the changes in the Grocery stores, the Sam's, W-marts and K-marts here. X-mas stuff is still taking the front stage, but behind it is skids loaded full of drinking water, flour, sugar, and canned foods (Yeah, I know you don't have The big marts in your area, but I envy you for that).

Wishing you luck from the other Port, 70 miles due south.

-- Dale (Inexile84@aol.com), December 24, 1999.


Donna, you said:

Dennis, ask yourself the following questions: When I am under stress with unusual, or traumatic events, what do I do? Do I panic? Do I run amok? Do I loot and pillage?

Why do you assume people other than you DO? Your above statement is amazing and saddening in it's arrogance and scarce understanding. Are you projecting your own unacknowledge desire to run amok and loot?

My statements accurately reflect what a majority of sheeple WILL do in a severe crisis that threatens the lives of their families. For you to think otherwise shows your complete lack of understanding of human nature, and how THIN the veneer of "civilization" is today.

I sincerely HOPE that you don't discover this fact while being forced to be some ex-yuppie's um, "girlfriend", to be followed by any daughters you might have. Of course, by then it will be too late, but it won't matter to you....

BTW, your ultra-liberal "faith" in humanity is quite funny. Guess you don't get out much, hmmmm? Take an evening stroll in South Los Angeles sometime, and see how quick you change your mind.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 24, 1999.


I just came from some last minute looking around at the local Kmart.I still love to get in the last minute Christmas crowd and look around for sales. I decided to venture over to the sporting goods department to see what the supplies were looking like. I noticed one of those big blue 5 or 7 gallon water containers on the floor. Just as I was "thinking" about buying another one, a man ran up and grabbed it. He was with another man and they were speaking a foreign language so I couldn't understand what was being said.....but I could tell from the tone they were excited. I spotted another water container half- way down the aisle and before I could get to it this same man ran up and grabbed it. I just smiled. Another man who had been lingering over the propane containers started to climb up the big ladder on wheels that was there and the other man pushed him aside and went up the ladder to a shelf full of these containers. There must have been at least 10 or 12 of them. He grabbed them and pitched them down one by one to his friend. Well, the other man started yelling in whatever language they were speaking. I could tell he wasn't happy.He was speaking a foreign language also. I backed off and just stood there with my mouth open. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. This guy pitched down every single container and between the two of them bought them all!!! Although I couldn't understand what they were saying, I thought I understood the word gasoline. I sure hope not, because these containers were for water not gas. I'm not sure if gas is safe in these containers All these months of preparing and reading and sharing made me so glad that I'm done with preps. I thought to myself how bad will it be next week. I saw another woman come into the department while this guy was sailing all these containers down. She wanted one and asked if he'd give her one. He ignored her and she didn't get one.(How rude )

There are now no water containers at the Kmart by my house. I doubt if they'll get any more in before Y2K. There was one campstove and maybe 20 containers of propane. They still have sleeping bags.

I'm glad I won't have to go out next week at all. I'm ready. I was in Krogers today also and noticed 2 HUGE endcaps full of water. They also had a HUGE endcap piled high with those Dura-flame logs for the fireplace. This is definately a change in what Krogers puts on display.

-- LOON (blooney10@aol.com), December 24, 1999.


I must agree with the above which pictures human nature in it's raw form, witness the looting when things happen in the big burgs, witness Seattle this last week. There is a very thin line between the savage beast and the civilized man. He can revert to the beast in a heatbeat, and dont for a moment think that he wont. I have been in the world for 67 years, and I know human nature. It is raw, mean and savage, I am afraid, very afraid that is what we are going to be faced with in a very short time. I have a wife and an adopted ten year old daughter that have me prepping for the worst, and praying to God in heaven for the best.

-- Notforlong (Fsur439@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

Notforlong, I'll be 68 come January, and even though I don't like to, I have to agree with you. There's a very thin line between the decent human being and the beast.

Fear, thirst, hunger will bring out the beast. And, like you, I've done all the preperations money and space will allow. If I've forgotten something, it's too late now. Overbought on something else, well, that's too bad. So, for whatever comes, I'll cope.

Pamela, in this area of So. Calif. there's nothing out of the ordinary - so far. But, there's a week to go, and we'll see what happens next week.

-- Richard (Astral-Acres@webtv.net), December 24, 1999.



At WallyWorld's (2) near here gas cans have disappeared as has all camping fuel. Interestingly both due have 1 pound propane bottles, Coleman at that. One retailer I know of bought 4 pallets of 5 gallon metal jerry cans and has been selling lots at $30 per.

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), December 24, 1999.

Regarding the run on water containers above. What "foreign language were they speaking? Is it possible you didn't recognize it at all? Was it not deducible from other more physical characteristics that the men shared? (Dark hair, eyes, light hair or eyes, etc?)

Before this terrorist threat escalates into a xenophobic panic, let's remember that there are plenty of American citizens who speak more than one language other than English. Some of them exclusively, and legally.

Also, did you consider that the reason the two men were so excited is because they realized in a couple of days they will be selling these for more than twice the price around the corner?

The behavior you witnessed may very well have been--dare I say it-- Capitalism.

-- rw (ridleywalker@aol.com), December 24, 1999.


I have already been 68 and 69. I saw the Dearborn, Mi, Police on horseback riding down the Ford Motor strikers on Miller Rd. in 1937. I was in high school in downtown Detroit during the riot in 1943. I saw the bodies on the lawn of the 12th street police station. Please don't delude yourself about what people are capable of doing. Nothing need be said about Nazi Germany or Communist Russia. Just mentioning them should suffice. How about Waco and Ruby Ridge in this country? Civilization? Don't bet your life on it.

-- Seen It All (wasthere@the.time), December 24, 1999.

Dennis, cite your reference for the following ridiculous statement:

My statements accurately reflect what a majority of sheeple WILL do in a severe crisis that threatens the lives of their families.

Sounds to me as if your sources are television and the movies....those are not real people. There is no such thing as a MAJORITY of human beings...there are myriads of individual people, and "human nature" is a myth. This of course does not preclude the fact that many individuals are woefully and inadequately educated about "how things work". Perhaps those are the people you mean. I remain unclear about how you come to have such intimate knowledge of SO MANY individuals.

You assume a great deal by using the label "liberal" to describe me. You know nothing about me. In fact I am a small-a anarchist who thinks that individual people, doing what is right and moral, are what holds things together on the planet where governments create most of the problems.

I really just get so weary of the same old erroroneous, albeit easy, global generalizations.

May we all have many opportunities to demonstrate and witness what I stated above.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), December 24, 1999.


Why buy botled water, when it flows freely out of your faucet?

-- ... (...@...com), December 24, 1999.


I give up. Is that a trick question? How about: For an UN-rainy day?

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), December 24, 1999.

Donna, you said:

In fact I am a small-a anarchist who thinks that individual people, doing what is right and moral, are what holds things together on the planet where governments create most of the problems.

1) That sounds like a LIBERAL to me. (And I'm a card-carrying Democrat, so I know a bit about them...) BTW, go tell that to a bunch of GANG BANGERS!

2) You are indeed HOPELESSLY naive. Here's hoping that you don't have to find out exactly HOW naive you really are...

3) BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!

7 days remain. Got guns & ammo? (No Donna, this doesn't mean YOU. You wouldn't own a gun if your own daughter were raped before your eyes.)

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), December 24, 1999.


Actually I own several handguns and a rifle. (.38, .44, .45 and an SKS) And I'm not sure you know the real definition of the word liberal. But you can spout on if you like. I'll wipe the dust from my sandals, and be on my way.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), December 24, 1999.

rw,

In answer to your questions about my post, if I were to guess at their ethnicity I'd guess Arab.

I don't think I indicated that I feared these men were terrorist. That thought never entered my mind at all until you mentioned it.

You may be quite right that they planned to resell them for a profit at a higher price than what they paid.

I only commented on this because of the topic of this thread which is changes in the stores in your area. This particular incident was different. Also, this time of year camping supplies are generally not so sought after or fought over.

FWIW, after seeing what I saw today, I do think there are people starting to prep and before the week is out there may be problems with the supply/demand JIT cycle of shopping we're all accustomed to and how people react to it.

-- LOON (blooney10@aol.com), December 24, 1999.


Walking into ACE True Value a gentlemen just bought 20lb propane tank,(He certainly not going to cook outdoors 25F TODAY) I was looking for more Lamp oil, none left here or at AMES and K-Mart Luckily got me some extra wicks

-- Otis (Otis@mindspring.com), December 24, 1999.

The events in Watts, LA, Seattle are not going to be what we see, if there are infrastructure problems...those were very unique...and Seattle is not even in question....outside agitating groups came to disrupt a planned peaceful protest...only a couple handfuls created the damage....Look to your own neighborhoods before making predictions about violence.

Ho, ho, ho, Everyone....be well and safe this weekend.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), December 24, 1999.


To Dale-- Would that be Port Matilda, PA? We lived 28 years in State College. Pam

-- Pamela (jpjgood@penn.com), December 24, 1999.

Yep, that's the place. I moved out of State college three years ago. Lived there off and on about 20 of last 40 years.

-- Dale (Inexile84@aol.com), December 24, 1999.

Dale-- Jerry asks, "Were you in architectural engr?" Pam

-- Pamela (jpjgood@penn.com), December 24, 1999.

Jerry, No, Business Management. The boring people.

-- Dale (Inexile84@aol.com), December 25, 1999.

Donna Said: In fact I am a small-a anarchist who thinks that individual people, doing what is right and moral, are what holds things together on the planet where governments create most of the problems.

Dennis Said: 1) That sounds like a LIBERAL to me. (And I'm a card-carrying Democrat, so I know a bit about them...) BTW, go tell that to a bunch of GANG BANGERS!

Dennis, the reason Gang Bangers are so tough is that they have guns and most of those around them don't. There is nothing inherentely Liberal or Conservative about gun ownership though our political parties have tried to make it so. How tough would Gang Bangers be if everyone in the neighborhood had a gun? If every old lady walking down the street and every person sitting on their porch had a gun, how tough would they be then? How dead would they be then?

My dad grew up in Bed-Stuy in Brooklyn. A very tough neighborhood for those who don't know. With the exception of one or two of his friends they all wound up dead or in jail. You know what they used to do when the local gangs got too wild? 20 or 30 guys from the street (fathers sons and brothers) would take baseball bats and set the gang members straight. Vigilante Justice? No. They weren't putting them on trial for any specific crimes. But when a dozen people looked out their windows at night and saw the local gang trashing cars or mugging people they *all* knew who had to be 'dealt' with. They were just normal people defending themselves, their homes, and their loved ones. They were doing a job for themselves that the police *couldn't* do.

But today, it's the Government that prevents most people in big cities from owning guns. It's the Government that is making the problem worse, not better. I think that's what Donna was alluding to.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), December 25, 1999.


Donna,

Wake up. There is no Santa Clause or Easter Bunny.

There is no correlation between individual and group or mob mentality.

Read Scottie Peck's "People Of The Lie". Scottie is a psychiatrist, and proposes in this book the study of what he terms "malignant narcicissm".

There is a wonderfully informative chapter on group dynamics in times of stress, quoting numerous historical examples.

What about the Millner Experiment which attempted to "prove" that Americans could never be influenced to harm others as Germans were in WWII. The experiment failed entirely, and the subjects which participated in the trials required YEARS of therapy to try to come to terms with the autrocoties they acted out in the experiment.

Group behavior is dramatically different from individual behavior.

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 25, 1999.


sorry, tryin to type too fast: spelling is narcissism

-- Hokie (nn@va.com), December 25, 1999.

Donna....I guess many people have forgotten (or cast-off as untrue) that we create our own reality by our: beliefs + thoughts + intentions + emotions + expectations + daydreams....if this is true, obviously you are going to be just fine....everyone will attract whatever they will be working on....I read earlier on this forum that whatever the person's choice, (in that case, to prepare or not to prepare), it was best to respect the persons choice....who knows why or what each person's path involves....choosing Love and expecting Goodness to visit my home fells better to me, too....thanks for sticking up for what you believe, naive or not.

-- Queen of Hearts (alice@wonder.land), December 25, 1999.

Hokie, lovely,...I have no belief in Santa or Mr. Bunny or any other such mythical creatures, like politicians with hearts of gold....re-read Tech32s comments. Individual people are what matter..a few malcontents making trouble in a neighborhood quickly learn when there are sane adults around to 'splain it to them.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), December 25, 1999.

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