I am about donewith my preps, although I still need to fill some water containers and buy gas for the gene.

But, there is one prep item I have not decided if I will get yet, and wanted to get some opinions.

I do not own, nor have I ever owned, a gun of any kind. I believe in the right to bear arms, but I did not grow up around them, and never had the need for one, until now.

I'm considering getting a 22 rifle. My reasons for getting it would be to shoot small game, and for varments. Also, although I know it is not the best for this, I figure it might also serve as some protection. I am not interested in getting an arsenal, but need to make a decision, while I still can, whether or not to get this last item for my preps. I see it more as a tool than a weapon.

I am interested in what other people who may have a similar history to mine when it comes to guns thinks about this issue.

For the extreme among us, I will say it for you... "Your doomed, buy a tank and a gross of AR15's."

-- concerned preper (concerned@home.com), December 23, 1999

Answers

If you can't defend yourself and your preps, then all of your preparation up until now will have been pointless. Buy the gun.

-- (its@coming.soon), December 23, 1999.

I don't think having a gun will do much good. The reason being that cops, who practice constantly, miss their target, so you best figure it'd be for show but the odds are you will lose the battle. A persons emotions matter though, and if it makes you feel emotionally as if you're safe, why not nurture yourself? I have the ideal in that I have dogs, difficult breeds, I rescued and adopted, and they live tightly with me inside. They won't miss their target.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), December 23, 1999.

Whatever you do, do it NOW! You are out of time. There could be up to a three day wait for your background check.

BTW, IMHO, If I were to pick a single weapon for all-around use, I would pick a 12 gauge pump action shotgun. Some reasons are:

1. Versatility. The shotgun can be used for self-defense or hunting. Even with an 18.5" to 20" barrel, the shotgun is still an acceptable hunting weapon. You can hunt for anything from small birds to deer. If you're so inclined, you can get a longer barrel for hunting.

2. Ammo is cheap, plentiful, and bound to be available if thing go MadMax on us. There are dozens of variations in birdshot, buckshot, rifled slugs, and speciality ammo that can serve many different roles for you.

3. Stopping power. You can use it as a very effective self defense weapon if you need to.

4. Price. A new Mossberg or Remington pump will run you from $200- $250 at Wal-Mart.

5. Capacity. Out of the box, many Pumps hold 5 rounds. Depending on the length of the barrel, you can modify it to hold up to 10 rounds.

Some things not to forget:

Range can't compare to a rifle, but with a little practice, you can do everything with a shotgun that a rifle can.

Contrary to a widely held belief, shotguns DO need to be aimed. At self defense ranges, say 20-30 feet, the pattern of shot will not have spread more than a few inches around.

Remember, a gun is always considered loaded.

Don't point a gun at anything you're not willing to shoot.

Don't put your finger on the trigger until you've made the decision to fire.

Read the manual and follow all safety rules in it.

Good Luck and MOVE QUICK!

-- Powder (Powder@keg.com), December 23, 1999.

If you are going to buy a gun, get a shotgun, 12 gauge or 20 gauge. It gives you a better chance of hitting whatever you are shooting at. Shell sizes: #6 for birds and small game; #4 for turkeys, larger animals; #0 or #00 for deer, etc.

-- duckinglow (keepway@low.com), December 23, 1999.

Paula, they'll certainly miss their target if they are *someone* else's target. One of the first things I expect might happen is that the 'varmit' takes out the dogs...then where will you be? SOL.

Concerned, wouldn't you rather have a tool and not need it, than to *really* need a tool and not have it? And yes, it *is* a tool with many uses. Might come in real handy, you just never know.

Get the rifle.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

BTW - Dogs are great for a Canine Heavy Early Warning System (CHEWS) but you know what?

1 - 123 grain bullet = 1 - DEAD DOG

How many dogs are you willing to get?

-- Powder (Powder@keg.com), December 23, 1999.

THE single most difficult decision I had to make was regarding the gun question. Tore me up, let me tell ya.

As I take my spiritual practice seriously, I first looked inward for the right questions which required answers before I could make my decision.

Questions in hand I began to read various snippets from those I respect as spiritual persons regarding the taking of life, self- defense, courage & cowardice, etc.

I then contrasted & compared those words with my views, principles, conceptions of life & death.

I use meditation in my spiritual practice, so naturally I looked/listened within for guidance.

I read up on the various types of firearms. I researched training, effects of being shot (both on the person shot & emotional repurcussions upon the shootee).

The entire process lasted for almost one year.

Best Wishes to All,

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), December 23, 1999.

I kind of think that anyone who really wants a gun is the last person who should have one. You sound like the sort of guy who SHOULD have one, because you don't really want it. Ironic, no?

By the way, you forgot to say "If you've never fired a gun, never buy one! Ever! You'll be a danger to yourself and others! Don't even think about it. You'll never be as dangerous as me. I'LL SLAY ALL WHO APPROACH MY BUNKER."

I think you're right. It's a tool. If I were you, I'd get one. If you never have to use it, hurrah.

I believe shotguns actually take more game than .22's, but what do I know, I don't have an armoury in my basement.

-- Servant (public_service@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.

If you only want a .22 rifle for a 'food gathering tool', Might I suggest the Springfeild Armory's M-6 Survival Rifle? Its a breech loaded .22/.410 O/U Combo gun originally designed for the Air Force's Ejection seat. Breaks into two pieces, and is unreally (surreally?) accurate. Can drop rabbits and small game birds at ease, and carries 7 shotshells and 15 rounds of .22 in the stock. It's a little, awkward to use at first, but its reallt a nice toy to have. (Keep mine strap to my bugout ruck-frame for food missions)

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasan101st@Aol.com), December 23, 1999.

I did forget to say that although I'd choose a 12ga. shotgun, I keep a Henry AR7 .22 broken down in the buttstock, in my bugout bag at all times.

-- Powder (Powder@keg.com), December 23, 1999.

I have to agree that a 12 ga pump shotgun is the best home defense gun. For home defense, a 20 inch barrel is best and arguably the Remington 870 is best. On the 870, and others, the barrel is easily replaced. Get a 26 inch modified choke barrel for hunting and get somebody to show you how to change barrels. Mossburg is good too, but at this point any model is probably ok. #4 buck (although it may be harder to find), not #4 shot, is the best for two legged varmints. Unless shot at close range and then in a vital place, a 22 will not stop the infamous two legged varmint.

-- ds (ds@deepsouth.com), December 23, 1999.

My cousin is a paramedic/firefighter in Chicago. He tells us some of the more "exciting" runs he's been on. Once he discussed a victim of a shootout - he'd been shot with a .22 pistol.

"The .22 bullet isn't strong enough to exit a human body, but there's enough energy to bounce around inside and do extensive damage to internal organs. A .22 CAN be DEADLY, depending on the range, and where the person is hit." A direct quote.

IMHO, a .22 is FINE - a show of force may be all that's needed, not the actual firing of the gun. I own a .22 magnum longrifle and have owned a 20 gauge single-shot. I greatly prefer the .22 over the shotgun.

-- Deb M. (vmcclell@columbus.rr.com), December 23, 1999.

I agree with Deb, I always agree with Wilferd and I just have one question for Paula........

Don't you have any last minute wrapping to finish? Are you done with your cards already?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), December 23, 1999.

Please listen to Powder.

I can recommend my Remington 870.

Purchase and practice now.

-- nothere nothere (notherethere@hotmail.com), December 23, 1999.

I just bought my first 12 gauge shotgun yesterday... I too had agonized over wether or not to buy a gun, but finaly decided to get it. I am praying that it never needs to be used... I support the 2nd amendment, but I was wary of one for myself. Having considered Its@coming.soon 's words, as well as what I could afford(not much), I bought a 12 gauge, single shot, manual-load for $79 at wallmart. I prayed last night that I never need to use it... Servant, yes I agree with you for the most part, I really don't want the gun, but I think I might need it... To be safe, I've locked it up with a trigger lock, placed it into a case, locked that with 3 locks, have the only keys on me, and hidden it so that there can be no accidents. I want to be safe, so I've taken as many precausions as possible...

-- Crono (Crono@timesend.com), December 23, 1999.

:To be safe, I've locked it up with a trigger lock, placed it into a case, locked that with 3 locks, have the only keys on me, and hidden it so that there can be no accidents

If I had just invaded you home and I see that your gun is locked away like this, I'd feel quite safe indeed.

I can hear it now: "Wait mister, time out, don't hurt me until I can get these four locks open, load my shotgun and BLAM... you're toast."

If you have kids, supervise and train them. Teach them to respect it. Knowledge is power. Your weapon will be safe enough if you have it available with a quick release trigger lock.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but the purpose of having it is defeated if you put it away like that.

-- Powder (Powder@keg.com), December 23, 1999.

Crono,

Listen to Powder.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), December 23, 1999.

This info from someone who goes in harms way daily and instructs others in same and also avid hunter.

Don't delay. List of preferrances of firearms in order of necesity for persons of limited firearms experience. If you could afford all then great. If not then get #1 & #2 (the shotgun & revolver).

#1 Remington 870 12 gauge or Mossberg 500 12 ga. w/ 20" barrel with rifled sights--if you have the money then get a 26" vent rib barrel for strictly hunting w/ shot loads--100+ rounds of #7 1/2 or #8 shot-- 30-50 rounds of #1 buck or #00 buck--30-50 rounds winchester 2 3/4" rifled slugs.

#3 would be Ruger 10/22 (~$150.oo)w/ an approx $50-75.oo scope (Simmons .22 mag 3x9x32) and several bricks of .22 LR (CCI mini-mag very accurate load) ammo.

#2 Used S & W or Ruger or Colt or Taurus .357 magnum revolver w/ 4" barrel, w/ 125 grain JHP ammo and/or .38 special +P 158 gr LHP ammo, (use the .38 spcl ammo if the blast of the mag ammo is too much for you, which it likely will be). 200 rounds minimum. Get a good quality holster and a speed loader as well.

#4 Used or new Chimese SKS 7.62 X 39 rifle (~$100.oo-150.oo) w/ 200 rounds ammo minimum (~$50.oo).

I hope that this helps you. I hope and pray that I never have to draw blood and I suggest you take the same approach. But, even under good conditions the police will not be there to protect you. They can however come and take a rather nice report of the incident once it's concluded. You & your family's safety is YOUR responsibility. Take it seriously and be willing to train. Never display a firearm unless you are mentally prepared to use it and are deploying it with the intention of bringing it into immediate action (i.e. getting ready to fire).

Take care,

Zeck.

-- Zeck Buckner (bph1994@yahoo.com), December 23, 1999.

One more good reason to buy the shotgun particularly if you are squeemish about using it; just the sound of racking a pump shotgun will get peoples attention quite quickly and probably send them on their way.

-- JB (noway@jose.com), December 23, 1999.

I'm just leaving it there until the roll-over, then if things get bad, out it comes... I'll keep the trigger lock on it, but this extra precaution is just for now...

-- Crono (Crono@timesend.com), December 23, 1999.

I'm just adding another testimonial, but I love my 870. Have literally fired thousands of rounds and have never had a jam. Just my

Two Cents,

Frank

P.S. also like the ruger 10/22, but it *does* jam on occasion, and wouldn't want that if I really needed it.

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.com), December 23, 1999.

As far as my own personal preferences go, I have a Rem 870 that is always handy. Either of these would be my first choice in the event of a home invasion. I also have a Glock 17 and a Smith & Wesson 9mm pre-positioned in the house. If things got really ugly, I would fall back to the AK47 with 40 high-cap mags (already loaded full as of the 15th of December) and 5k more rounds on strippers. (Oh jeez Powder, don't you think that's overkill? Nope.) These are events I hope never happen, but I'm prepared for it, and I might even survive.

By the way, only the Glock and one 870 remain loaded 24/7. They're within easy reach whenever I'm home. In case some jerk finds them while they're invading my house, the rest have mags close but not with the gun. I don't have kids so I don't use trigger locks.

-- Powder (Powder@keg.com), December 23, 1999.

You Americans and your guns. Very scarey. I'm glad I don't live over there.

-- pow (bang@you're.dead), December 23, 1999.

I suppose you live as a subject instead of a free citizen?

-- Powder (Powder@keg.com), December 23, 1999.

I have been anti-gun and anti-violence my entire life. I can't believe that things have come to this. My husband and I went out a month ago and bought two guns. It was absolutely surreal as we went about this act. We bought a Mossberg 20 gauge shotgun and a .357 revoler. I was in shock but I knew that at this point it was necessary. I insisted that we take a class, which we did. It was a handgun class and I learned a lot. We have practiced with the handgun several times since. It still terrifies me to shoot it but I know that we do need a means of protecting ourselves. It is sad that we have to do such a thing but God gave me a brain and expects me to use it. God be with us all as we go into this.

Peace...

-- star (star@catchone.com), December 23, 1999.

powder

Actually, I am a free citizen. Hardly anyone has a gun where I live which means there is almost no shootings which means there is no need to own a gun to defend yourself. And you really think you are better off in America. HaHa.

-- pow (cc@mm.mik), December 23, 1999.

Actually, I am a free citizen.

Q: What's the difference between a slave and a free man?
A: The slave isn't allowed to be armed.

-- Steve Heller (stheller@koyote.com), December 23, 1999.

Buy 2 12 guage shot guns and lots of ammo.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 23, 1999.

Thanks for all the great feedback!

I bought the rifle. Remington 597 22 lr w/composite stock. $139.97 at Wal-Mart. There is a $20 rebate through 01/31/00 from Remington.

Bought 700 rounds of 22 long rifle ammo. Now I have to find a place to practice.

They were swamped with people buying guns and ammo. When I came up to counter to buy the 597, they were already on the phone doing a background check on someone else. They did mine while they were on the line. That saved me some time, there said there was quite a wait on the phone. Interesting experience. They had to escort me out of the store with the rifle. When we walked outside, there were two Wal-Mart employees standing there. When they saw us, they said to the sporting goods guy who was walking me out, "Another one?". He replied, "yea!" and sounded like he was getting tired of selling so many guns. I got the feeling that I was not the only person who had waited to last minute to decide to purchase a gun.

-- concerned preper (concerned@home.com), December 24, 1999.